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post #631 of 2486 Old 08-11-2011, 12:36 PM
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A question for the owners of this set.

How is the pic quality compared to other TV's you have owned and how are the black levels (in 2d)?

I am currently trying to decide between this lg lw6500 55 and the Lg lw9800 55.

I have seen the 3d on this TV and love it, however I had very limited 2d viewing experience with it in the store. ( under 10 minutes).
Would definitely appreciate feedback from the owners.
THX
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post #632 of 2486 Old 08-11-2011, 01:58 PM
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Originally Posted by tommyt21 View Post

A question for the owners of this set.

How is the pic quality compared to other TV's you have owned and how are the black levels (in 2d)?

I am currently trying to decide between this lg lw6500 55 and the Lg lw9800 55.

I have seen the 3d on this TV and love it, however I had very limited 2d viewing experience with it in the store. ( under 10 minutes).
Would definitely appreciate feedback from the owners.
THX

When comparing to a true back-lit local micro-dimming set like the LW9800, I'd anticipate some people will notice, in certain situations, the inherent limitations of the edge-lit 16-zone local dimming of the 6500/5600 series. In particular, a bit of blooming around bright objects in dark backgrounds and light guide artefacts between the edge and bright object (for example, an arrow cursor on completely black screen can show a very subtle faded path from the screen edge to the arrow if you look for it).

But that's really nitpicking. When the LW6500 has Local Dimming turned on, I have to say it's surprisingly effective overall in the *majority* of viewing conditions. Specifically, screen blackouts between scenes / commercial transitions, most dark scenes. Makes the unit feel nice and 'premium'. In Canada I believe I was quoted $3200 for the 9800, while I bought my 6500 for $1800 - I could not justify such a large leap in price for the benefits. However, IMO if the 9800 price went down to say $2500, and the screen reflectivity were reasonably controlled (e.g. comparable to the Sammy D8000), then I'd jump on it for sure.

Descriptions of Local Dimming settings from the manual:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Off = Turn off LED Local Dimming operation.
Low = Brightens the picture and deepens black levels using the soft local dimming.
Medium = Deepens black levels using the strong local dimming.
High = Clears the picture and deepens black levels using the strong local dimming.
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post #633 of 2486 Old 08-11-2011, 03:02 PM
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Just took delivery of the 65LW6500 set today. So far it looks like a really nice set but I have two issues I'm trying to work out:

(1) Audio sync. I have HDMI going directly to the set with audio going via optical cables to my Yamaha receiver. The Yamaha doesn't do 1080p passthru which is why I go directly to the TV with the HDMI for picture. OK so far. Now, using the toslink cables, the audio is slightly ahead of the video, presumably due to the video processing on the TV. I tried using the toslink optical out on the TV and thought that'd work but it doesn't pass DD 5.1. It turns DD 5.1 into stereo. Is there any way to get the TV to pass the DD 5.1 coming in on the HDMI through to the optical audio out?

(2) Mura. Yes, I see it. I only see it on the top and bottom edges and it appears as some shadows here and there. Doesn't show up unless you are looking at a uniform picture like the green turf on a football field. I've heard of anything from turning down the backlight to loosening screws on the back. It's not too bad, especially since it is at the edge of the picture, but I would like advice on how to minimize its visibility.

Thanks for any info,
Mike
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post #634 of 2486 Old 08-11-2011, 03:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hollywood_puppet View Post

When comparing to a true back-lit local micro-dimming set like the LW9800, I'd anticipate some people will notice, in certain situations, the inherent limitations of the edge-lit 16-zone local dimming of the 6500/5600 series. In particular, a bit of blooming around bright objects in dark backgrounds and light guide artefacts between the edge and bright object (for example, an arrow cursor on completely black screen can show a very subtle faded path from the screen edge to the arrow if you look for it).

But that's really nitpicking. When the LW6500 has Local Dimming turned on, I have to say it's surprisingly effective overall in the *majority* of viewing conditions. Specifically, screen blackouts between scenes / commercial transitions, most dark scenes. Makes the unit feel nice and 'premium'. In Canada I believe I was quoted $3200 for the 9800, while I bought my 6500 for $1800 - I could not justify such a large leap in price for the benefits. However, IMO if the 9800 price went down to say $2500, and the screen reflectivity were reasonably controlled (e.g. comparable to the Sammy D8000), then I'd jump on it for sure.

Descriptions of Local Dimming settings from the manual:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Off = Turn off LED Local Dimming operation.
Low = Brightens the picture and deepens black levels using the soft local dimming.
Medium = Deepens black levels using the strong local dimming.
High = Clears the picture and deepens black levels using the strong local dimming.

Great response, Thank you that is exactly what I was looking for is it worth the exstra coin.
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post #635 of 2486 Old 08-11-2011, 05:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mchaney View Post

(1) Audio sync. I have HDMI going directly to the set with audio going via optical cables to my Yamaha receiver. The Yamaha doesn't do 1080p passthru which is why I go directly to the TV with the HDMI for picture. OK so far. Now, using the toslink cables, the audio is slightly ahead of the video, presumably due to the video processing on the TV. I tried using the toslink optical out on the TV and thought that'd work but it doesn't pass DD 5.1. It turns DD 5.1 into stereo. Is there any way to get the TV to pass the DD 5.1 coming in on the HDMI through to the optical audio out?

My receiver has a delay setting I used to sync the audio - you might want to check yours. That was the only way I was able to get the audio sync'd and also get the full DD or DTS signal. I think the only method that the TV can use to pass the _full_ digital signal back is through the HDMI AV Return channel, which only newer and/or better receivers support.
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post #636 of 2486 Old 08-11-2011, 05:20 PM
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Originally Posted by scochran666 View Post

My receiver has a delay setting I used to sync the audio - you might want to check yours. That was the only way I was able to get the audio sync'd and also get the full DD or DTS signal. I think the only method that the TV can use to pass the _full_ digital signal back is through the HDMI AV Return channel, which only newer and/or better receivers support.

It won't pass through the signal on the ARC either. Tried it. I use your method as well to sync audio to the picture.
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post #637 of 2486 Old 08-11-2011, 07:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulGo View Post

I was in Best Buy and another Costco - sadly this is what I saw with LG passive technology. To me the resolution of the LG / Vizio passive 3D solution is just plan bad.

http://www.samsung.com/us/article/th...sung-active-3d


if the stores would only install the latest firmware, the lines would dissapear and you would love the picture. I have a 55lw6500 and love the pic quality on 3d movies
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post #638 of 2486 Old 08-11-2011, 09:38 PM
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Originally Posted by scochran666 View Post

My receiver has a delay setting I used to sync the audio - you might want to check yours. That was the only way I was able to get the audio sync'd and also get the full DD or DTS signal. I think the only method that the TV can use to pass the _full_ digital signal back is through the HDMI AV Return channel, which only newer and/or better receivers support.

That's what I'm doing now. I'm having to run about a 150ms delay though. Seems a bit excessive, and that's on Expert1 with most of the processing stuff turned off like adaptive contrast, noise filter, etc.. What are you running for the delay, and does it change when you switch from a 3D to a normal 2D HD source? If the delay is truly 150ms, I'm not going to enjoy playing Halo Reach. I'll be dead and getting teabagged before I even see the picture.

On the optical audio out... jeez, this is 2011. They can't pass a DD 5.1 signal out the optical?

Mike
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post #639 of 2486 Old 08-12-2011, 03:56 AM
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Originally Posted by mchaney View Post

That's what I'm doing now. I'm having to run about a 150ms delay though. Seems a bit excessive, and that's on Expert1 with most of the processing stuff turned off like adaptive contrast, noise filter, etc.. What are you running for the delay, and does it change when you switch from a 3D to a normal 2D HD source? If the delay is truly 150ms, I'm not going to enjoy playing Halo Reach. I'll be dead and getting teabagged before I even see the picture.

Wow, I was able to correct using 10ms on the PS3 input, 5 on the XBox. Wait, I might have those reversed, but either way it wasn't THAT bad.

My understanding is that if you name an input PC, it will drop the processing WAY down, but I haven't tried that yet.
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post #640 of 2486 Old 08-12-2011, 05:09 AM
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Hey guys question? At flatpanelshd an article about upgrade algorithm, to double resolution to each eye, (1080i from 540i) in passive3d. The article says to have this work, true motion must be ..OFF.. is True motion the 240hz capabilities on this panel? And having to be off would the 240hz motion advantage only be useful in 3d.? Or is true motion the dejudder, deblur adjustment allowing use of 240hz in 3d? Is 240 refresh rate different then truemotion or a part of it? Thank you
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post #641 of 2486 Old 08-12-2011, 05:39 AM
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Hey ronhjr 1+ I actually like the color, contrast and grey to dark shading of paulgo's picture much better, go figure? If this split picture, pq is suppose to represents whats worse between the two panels, sans the lines of the lg. ( which are not seen at 3 meters distance from the display) then, I feel, his comparison only sells LG more, as with gamma, backlight contrast and brightness, tweaks, one could purify the dingy white and make the LG pop?
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post #642 of 2486 Old 08-12-2011, 05:53 AM
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PS... I'm hoping this is what the lw9800 will do, with its full array and local dimming, in reality marry the two pictures shown above. With the shadings and darks on the picture on the right, joined together with the brightness and crisp white purity of the picture on the left. Anyone else with me? Kinda the best of both panels displays. Anyway, this what I'm hoping.
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post #643 of 2486 Old 08-12-2011, 06:03 AM
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Can someone send me there preferences for settings?
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post #644 of 2486 Old 08-12-2011, 06:07 AM
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Originally Posted by fz1nsho View Post

Can someone send me there preferences for settings?

On the 65LW6500, I actually found the picture wizard to be very good. Try it out. And I'm the kind of guy who likes to tinker with settings a lot.
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post #645 of 2486 Old 08-12-2011, 06:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmj21grams View Post

Hey guys question? At flatpanelshd an article about upgrade algorithm, to double resolution to each eye, (1080i from 540i) in passive3d.

rumor has it that the next firmware update for the LW6500 does this
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post #646 of 2486 Old 08-12-2011, 06:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nuzzy View Post


rumor has it that the next firmware update for the LW6500 does this

I thought the current firmware for lw6500 already does this.

If not cool...
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post #647 of 2486 Old 08-12-2011, 06:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ronhjr View Post

if the stores would only install the latest firmware, the lines would dissapear and you would love the picture. I have a 55lw6500 and love the pic quality on 3d movies

I also noticed that BB has not done the firmware update I saw the lw5600 at best buy and could see the lines just like that picture, However I also saw the LW6500 with the firware update at a private elctronics store and there were no lines.
Plus I would rather have a hint of those lines than the flicker of active.
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post #648 of 2486 Old 08-12-2011, 06:42 AM
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Originally Posted by scochran666 View Post

Wow, I was able to correct using 10ms on the PS3 input, 5 on the XBox. Wait, I might have those reversed, but either way it wasn't THAT bad.

My understanding is that if you name an input PC, it will drop the processing WAY down, but I haven't tried that yet.

You can really notice 1/100 sec? I'd be happy enough to leave it alone if I could get the sound within 1/100 sec! I've tried every picture setting and turned off all processing and still get 150ms. I'm on the latest 4.00.18 firware.

Mike
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post #649 of 2486 Old 08-12-2011, 08:11 AM
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Originally Posted by muad'dib View Post

I thought the current firmware for lw6500 already does this.

If not cool...

you may be right...I was looking on another forum and may have misinterpreted it
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post #650 of 2486 Old 08-12-2011, 08:16 AM
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Originally Posted by mchaney View Post

You can really notice 1/100 sec? I'd be happy enough to leave it alone if I could get the sound within 1/100 sec! I've tried every picture setting and turned off all processing and still get 150ms. I'm on the latest 4.00.18 firware.

Mike

I'm not sure if you've already tried the AV sync? (Audio settings -> AV sync). For example on my PS3 hdmi input I have it set to -5 in order to reduce lag to a minimum.
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post #651 of 2486 Old 08-12-2011, 08:42 AM
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Excellent review for those of you still on the fence with this TV:
http://www.hardwarezone.com.ph/revie...ive-aggressive
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post #652 of 2486 Old 08-12-2011, 08:44 AM
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Originally Posted by hollywood_puppet View Post

I'm not sure if you've already tried the AV sync? (Audio settings -> AV sync). For example on my PS3 hdmi input I have it set to -5 in order to reduce lag to a minimum.

I'm not understanding... how can audio sync on the TV help when the TV can't affect audio. I can't use the audio out on the TV because it won't pass anything but stereo: it "eats" DD 5.1.

Mike
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post #653 of 2486 Old 08-12-2011, 09:50 AM
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Originally Posted by mchaney View Post

I'm not understanding... how can audio sync on the TV help when the TV can't affect audio. I can't use the audio out on the TV because it won't pass anything but stereo: it "eats" DD 5.1.

Mike

Oh I see. I'm afraid my experience not be very useful as I do not currently use a receiver.

Am I understanding correctly that you are connecting an xbox via hdmi to the tv, with the xbox's audio going to the yamaha?

If so, I'd say my first priority would be to sync up the video as tightly as possible. This has been discussed before (labeling the input as 'game' or 'pc', and so on). Then the xbox->video response time should be significantly improved (to the neighborhood of ~50ms or so).

After this, adjust the audio offset on the receiver to match the video delay (xbox --> receiver --> speakers). Future firmwares are rumored to further improve console->tv gaming responsiveness.

In the case of my ps3 setup, I only use the analog stereo out on the tv currently, and it seems that adjusting the AV sync not only synced up the audio/video, but seemed to improve response time. So I get the feeling that the AV sync doesn't just 'shift' the Audio relative to the Video, but perhaps shifts *both* (thus the perceived faster response time). If it's true that AV sync affects the absolute response time for Video, then this might be worth tweaking, in addition to the steps above.
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post #654 of 2486 Old 08-12-2011, 10:59 AM
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Originally Posted by E-JTL View Post


On the 65LW6500, I actually found the picture wizard to be very good. Try it out. And I'm the kind of guy who likes to tinker with settings a lot.

47lw6500
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post #655 of 2486 Old 08-12-2011, 11:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mchaney View Post

Just took delivery of the 65LW6500 set today. So far it looks like a really nice set but I have two issues I'm trying to work out:

(1) Audio sync. I have HDMI going directly to the set with audio going via optical cables to my Yamaha receiver. The Yamaha doesn't do 1080p passthru which is why I go directly to the TV with the HDMI for picture. OK so far. Now, using the toslink cables, the audio is slightly ahead of the video, presumably due to the video processing on the TV. I tried using the toslink optical out on the TV and thought that'd work but it doesn't pass DD 5.1. It turns DD 5.1 into stereo. Is there any way to get the TV to pass the DD 5.1 coming in on the HDMI through to the optical audio out?

(2) Mura. Yes, I see it. I only see it on the top and bottom edges and it appears as some shadows here and there. Doesn't show up unless you are looking at a uniform picture like the green turf on a football field. I've heard of anything from turning down the backlight to loosening screws on the back. It's not too bad, especially since it is at the edge of the picture, but I would like advice on how to minimize its visibility.

Thanks for any info,
Mike

What Yamaha do you have? Second can you use any delay features on that Yammy?
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post #656 of 2486 Old 08-12-2011, 02:20 PM
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Originally Posted by tommyt21 View Post

What Yamaha do you have? Second can you use any delay features on that Yammy?

V2600. Yes, I can use the delay feature and I have to set it to 150ms. That's too much of a delay for gaming so I'm still trying to find a solution. The V2600 only has one overall delay setting: you can't set it different for each input. So I have to find a way to get minimal lag. I'm going to try the "PC" trick and report back.

Mike
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post #657 of 2486 Old 08-12-2011, 03:04 PM
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Originally Posted by mchaney View Post
V2600. Yes, I can use the delay feature and I have to set it to 150ms. That's too much of a delay for gaming so I'm still trying to find a solution. The V2600 only has one overall delay setting: you can't set it different for each input. So I have to find a way to get minimal lag. I'm going to try the "PC" trick and report back.

Mike
Honestly, the more I look at your question the more puzzled I become. What do you mean it does not have 1080p pass through (Are you talking about Video scaling)? Do you use your TV for sound or do you use your AVR or both? If you use just your AVR their should be no problem in what you need to do. If want sound from both your tv and AVR then thats not going to happen with your current equipment the way you want it. I looked at good chunk of your owners manual and I don't see why you cant go xbox HDMI to HDMI 1 on your yamaha and then HDMI out to the tv. If your worried about video scaling that should be able to be turned off. If not it looks like this is a good excuse to pick up a new Reciever. My Midrange PIO lets me do everything under the sun and then some. Thats why your delemia is so perplexing.

Good luck, I know how frustrating crap like this can be!
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post #658 of 2486 Old 08-12-2011, 03:47 PM
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I don't pass HDMI through the V2600 because it cannot handle 1080p: only 1080i. But that's not the problem. The problem is the significant signal processing delay caused by the TV. If the TV worked properly, I could use the optical audio out from the TV and that would handle any sync issues. But the TV bastardizes DD 5.1 and downgrades everything to two channel stereo. So I can't use the TV's "brain" to handle the sync. That means you have to manually add a delay to the AV receiver. Worse, the delay can be different depending on which input and which settings you are using on the TV. For now, I've found a way to reduce the lag on the TV to 10-30ms (depending on options). The key to reducing the lag from 150ms down to just 10-30ms for me was:

(1) Label all three HDMI inputs that I'm using to "GAME" on the TV input list.

(2) Use "Game" instead of "Standard", "Expert1", or "Expert2" in the picture settings.

(3) Do NOT increase sharpening: sharpening algorithms add lag.

(4) Keep as many enhancements as possible off. Tru Motion is disabled in "Game" mode anyway, but keep noise reduction and other options off. Only thing I have enabled is adaptive contrast which I set to "Medium".

Now, I don't know if (1) truly made any difference. When fiddling with settings, I did find that any time I tried to use the "Tru Motion" setting or I tried to kick sharpness up, even from 50 to 60, I'd get a lot more lag.

At least in the range of 10-30ms, when I'm playing Halo Reach I'll actually see myself getting killed rather than getting killed and not seeing it until someone's teabags are already rubbing on my nose. That 150ms was a bit much... but 10 or 20ms I can live with.

Mike
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post #659 of 2486 Old 08-12-2011, 04:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mchaney View Post
I don't pass HDMI through the V2600 because it cannot handle 1080p: only 1080i. But that's not the problem. The problem is the significant signal processing delay caused by the TV. If the TV worked properly, I could use the optical audio out from the TV and that would handle any sync issues. But the TV bastardizes DD 5.1 and downgrades everything to two channel stereo. So I can't use the TV's "brain" to handle the sync. That means you have to manually add a delay to the AV receiver. Worse, the delay can be different depending on which input and which settings you are using on the TV. For now, I've found a way to reduce the lag on the TV to 10-30ms (depending on options). The key to reducing the lag from 150ms down to just 10-30ms for me was:

(1) Label all three HDMI inputs that I'm using to "GAME" on the TV input list.

(2) Use "Game" instead of "Standard", "Expert1", or "Expert2" in the picture settings.

(3) Do NOT increase sharpening: sharpening algorithms add lag.

(4) Keep as many enhancements as possible off. Tru Motion is disabled in "Game" mode anyway, but keep noise reduction and other options off. Only thing I have enabled is adaptive contrast which I set to "Medium".

Now, I don't know if (1) truly made any difference. When fiddling with settings, I did find that any time I tried to use the "Tru Motion" setting or I tried to kick sharpness up, even from 50 to 60, I'd get a lot more lag.

At least in the range of 10-30ms, when I'm playing Halo Reach I'll actually see myself getting killed rather than getting killed and not seeing it until someone's teabags are already rubbing on my nose. That 150ms was a bit much... but 10 or 20ms I can live with.

Mike
That makes more sense, I saw the 1080I in the manual but i thought that it was restricted to analog upconversion. Dang that must be an older model reciever. I'm glad you found some solutions. I play Reach also. Gammer Tag Violentsoul 21. Hit me up if you want to jam out

Thomas
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post #660 of 2486 Old 08-12-2011, 09:19 PM
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Wow... I just found something interesting. I was able to "massage away" most of the light bleed/mura on my set! I've heard of massaging dead pixels but never mura so I thought I'd post...

My DirecTV DVR went into screen saver mode with the black screen and bouncing DTV logo. It gave me an opportunity to look at the uniformity of the backlight from a distance. I could see a little bit of light leakage from the sides but the only really noticeable non-uniformity was one "flashlight" that was about 10 inches in diameter about in the middle of the screen just a little right of center. Pretty noticeable on an all black screen.

I took a dry microfiber towel and started to "massage" the screen near the edges to see if it affected how the edge lit LED's worked. I could see a flash of light wherever I pushed. So I basically went over the whole screen, massaging it lightly (maybe with a quarter to a half pound of force) as if to try to "smooth out" the surface. I was done in about 3 minutes and that one flashlight was completely gone! I even managed to even out a little of the non-uniformity near the edges too. Has anyone else tried lightly "massaging out" any flashlights or shadows on the screen?

In thinking about it, I'm not sure how the screens work exactly but I always lay the large TV's screen down on a soft bed while putting on the stand. I wonder if doing that simply caused some pressure on the screen that needed to be straightened out. In any case, I'm quite happy with the uniformity of the screen now in both light and dark tests! It's not perfect, but it's better than my prior 65 inch LCD and quite good for an LED/LCD of this size. I'd never expect perfect uniformity on anything but a plasma but it's really quite good now. I guess you could say that massage had a happy ending.

Mike
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