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post #91 of 190 Old 10-18-2011, 09:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ngwest36 View Post

I'm estimating your new eye level will be 20" from the top of that entertainment center; or, judging from the picture, about a 40" increase total from where it would be from a TV sitting in the center spot. I think that will probably be too much to overcome since the stand doesn't tilt. The manual doesn't give a 3D viewing angle, only a chart. And it is really narrow; looks like about 15-25 degrees off center. I think you're better off ditching the center (or the TV).

Yeah, after you mentioned that I measured from a general "middle" area of the TV hole upwards to an approximate slightly higher middle of my current 32" (since this would be 42") and got something in the 30-33" range, so probably too far off to enjoy the 3D. Guess a TV stand is in the cards first.
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post #92 of 190 Old 10-19-2011, 04:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by foladar View Post

Yeah, after you mentioned that I measured from a general "middle" area of the TV hole upwards to an approximate slightly higher middle of my current 32" (since this would be 42") and got something in the 30-33" range, so probably too far off to enjoy the 3D. Guess a TV stand is in the cards first.

oh yeah, I have the 47 so that explains the difference. Good luck with a stand (or wall mount?)

HD DVD = 64
Blu-Ray = 171
Blu-Ray 3D = 10
SDVD = 585
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post #93 of 190 Old 10-19-2011, 10:05 PM
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Originally Posted by ngwest36 View Post

oh yeah, I have the 47 so that explains the difference. Good luck with a stand (or wall mount?)

I considered a wall mount (and actually own one) but then I'd still need a tv stand for the rest of the stuff (consoles, box, hd dvd player) and I'd have nightmares of it falling off the wall.
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post #94 of 190 Old 10-20-2011, 10:50 AM
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Anybody know how to make the Vizio e3D420VX automatically switch to 3D instead of prompting me to press OK to switch ?

Thanks !
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post #95 of 190 Old 10-26-2011, 06:15 PM
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Just noticed that "Web Videos" (VIA widget app) ... forces you to watch Commercials for the first 15 seconds before every single video ! Fail !
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post #96 of 190 Old 11-04-2011, 04:47 AM
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I just ordered a E3D320VX off of amazon, their amazing financing swayed me into a purchase. My previous 3DTV was a LG Plasma 42" Active Shutter which i thought was absolutely terrible. The glasses were terrible, i got headaches from Active Shutter, the glasses would turn themselves off randomly, and i had tons of ghosting and other issues. Just did not click with me, and i returned the set.

I had given up on 3D but then my brother got a LG 55" Passive 3DTV. That right there changed my mind immediately. Its so nice, works so well, and no strain on your eyes at all. No silly glasses problems. So i got the E3D320VX on the way, as ive read it has the same panel that LG uses in their tvs, so should be pretty good. Any advice for someone getting this tv? I plan on hooking it up via ethernet and do any firmware upgrades it might need, and ill be using it as a PC monitor as well.

Does anyone here use it for a monitor? If so, is the 1920x1080 1:1 pixel mapping seemless and easy? Im running a 8800GTS 512 which supports stereoscopic 3D on pc. I also have a PS3 and 360 with loads of 3D Capable games on them. And of course, lots of 3D Blu-rays. Cant wait till it gets here.
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post #97 of 190 Old 11-05-2011, 04:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SomeDouche View Post

I just ordered a E3D320VX off of amazon, their amazing financing swayed me into a purchase. My previous 3DTV was a LG Plasma 42" Active Shutter which i thought was absolutely terrible. The glasses were terrible, i got headaches from Active Shutter, the glasses would turn themselves off randomly, and i had tons of ghosting and other issues. Just did not click with me, and i returned the set.

I had given up on 3D but then my brother got a LG 55" Passive 3DTV. That right there changed my mind immediately. Its so nice, works so well, and no strain on your eyes at all. No silly glasses problems. So i got the E3D320VX on the way, as ive read it has the same panel that LG uses in their tvs, so should be pretty good. Any advice for someone getting this tv? I plan on hooking it up via ethernet and do any firmware upgrades it might need, and ill be using it as a PC monitor as well.

Does anyone here use it for a monitor? If so, is the 1920x1080 1:1 pixel mapping seemless and easy? Im running a 8800GTS 512 which supports stereoscopic 3D on pc. I also have a PS3 and 360 with loads of 3D Capable games on them. And of course, lots of 3D Blu-rays. Cant wait till it gets here.

I've got the 47" version and indeed use it for a monitor for PC as well as PS3 and 360. Resistance 3 is great in 3D, enjoy.

HD DVD = 64
Blu-Ray = 171
Blu-Ray 3D = 10
SDVD = 585
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post #98 of 190 Old 11-10-2011, 04:29 AM
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PS3 and E3D420VX

I just git this tv and love it! Played movies great! My problem is 3D games with the PS3. I tried Uncharted 3. The game detected the 3D tv apparently because an update was downloaded for it. I now get warnings about 3d nd how it can affect you. However, the tv does not seem to be detecting 3D content when I play the game. Does not ask if I want to pkay in 3D.

What am I doing wrong? Is there a setting in the PS 3 I need to change?

Thanks for your help.

Steve
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post #99 of 190 Old 11-10-2011, 11:44 AM
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Uncharted 3 has a Stereoscopic setting in the main menu under video options.


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post #100 of 190 Old 11-10-2011, 01:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Ikari Warrior View Post

Uncharted 3 has a Stereoscopic setting in the main menu under video options.

Thank you very much! I knew it had to be something easy.
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post #101 of 190 Old 11-10-2011, 07:10 PM
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Got the tv hooked up via PC now with 1:1 pixel mapping, looks great. Needed to be in game mode in every sense of the way due to how laggy it was, but its pretty much fine now. Is there a advanced menu for this tv and a way to check if its on the newest firmware? I checked all the menus and didnt see anything immediately when checking.

Off to check out some 3D content on the PS3.
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post #102 of 190 Old 11-11-2011, 04:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ikari Warrior View Post

Uncharted 3 has a Stereoscopic setting in the main menu under video options.

The game looks great in 3D.

This tv is so much better than I had hoped.
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post #103 of 190 Old 11-14-2011, 01:23 PM
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It seems most talk about ghosting and lag issues are in reference to running games in 3D. I'm debating between a Vizio E3D420VX, Vizio M3D420SR and a LG 42LW5300 but I am concerned with reports I hear about gaming lag. Are the problems still there when playing normally in 2D? I'm especially concerned with lag, since I play a lot of fighting games and would hate to run into problems with them due to lag from my TV.

Also, how are the colors on this TV? My biggest reason for wanting to upgrade my TV is that my Samsung 40in LCD has issues with color banding.
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post #104 of 190 Old 11-28-2011, 09:54 PM
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My quick/mini review on the 32" version based on about 1.5 hours so far.

Haven't gotten to try out the internet apps as I haven't set it up to connect to my network yet.

Only using this connected to my computer as a monitor. I'm sitting about 3' away from it. All advanced settings off, set to game mode, TV speakers set to off.

For testing, I did web browsing, YouTube watching (3D), and gaming (2D).

I can definitely see the "horizontal stripes" a previous poster reported, particularly in ANY screen showing lighter colors (anything from a medium gray up), particularly in areas of solid color. This seems to be caused by pixel spacing. Perhaps when I get home again I can try taking some photos to show what I mean. Pretty much, when you look at a light section of the screen, instead of seeing a solid color, you see a grid of dots making the solid color. This is exacerbated by the fact that I'm sitting too close to the screen. The trouble would be less noticeable if I were able to sit back about 6 feet from the computer. The question now is whether or not I'll be able to adjust to it, or if it will wind up being a deal breaker.

OK, enough with the picking of nits. I did get to watch SOME 3D content on YouTube, which has it's own built in 3D rendering platform that could be called 'beta' is one was being generous. When it was working, and the input source wasn't crap, the movies were incredible. Since when watching a 3D movie I was able to sit back, the grid problems were much less noticeable. The best movies were those that were computer generated as they suffered much less from camera operator error. In multiple movies, there was absolutely NO 3D effect, and instead two totally different pictures were shown to each eye. This is not the fault of the TV, which was only displaying what it was given, this was trouble with YouTube's software.

Now we come to gaming. For this, I used Skyrim, but with an FXAA injector that sharpens the image and improves the saturation. I was not able to get 3D working as I believe I need a separate piece of software or something (iZ3D, TriDef, or 3DTV Play, I think, maybe others, if anyone can suggest an open source/creative commons licensed/free options, please do). So I'm playing Skyrim in 2D. Looks awesome, during the first few minutes, the grid effect really gets to me, but as I get into the game I notice it less and less (dragons attacking tends to distract one... go figure). Monitor really shines. No noticeable lag at all (likely 50ms from other peoples reports). I can tell when I have v-sync on from the lag on the mouse, so it has to be pretty good if I'm not feeling the floaty mouse problem (technically, I would have noticed this in YouTube as well, but I figured lag discussions would fit under gaming).

3D gaming and internet apps review will have to wait for later. Example photos of pixel spacing may be forthcoming (depending on if I need to sleep). I'll also have to see if I can get used to the pixel spacing, or if it will wind up being a deal breaker. One thing I need to test is an anaglyph picture in GIMP. the LG I had been using had a bad habit of not showing the exact right colors. I had turned off all processing I could find, but it still was doing some things behind the scenes. When screening one side of the picture through the appropriate shade of red, it had a habit of enhancing the edges in such a way that the edges were still visible when viewed trough the red filter. When displayed on a computer monitor, they were correct. If this TV can actually display the correct colors when presented with the same image file, then we may have a winner.

I'm serious about looking for options for the 3D driver though. Let me know if there is a legal free one out there. Seems there should be...
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post #105 of 190 Old 11-29-2011, 07:12 AM
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Thanks for the report Mogbert. Re: 3d gaming - what type of gpu are you using?
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post #106 of 190 Old 11-29-2011, 11:51 AM
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iZ3D works with this TV and geforce card.

HD DVD = 64
Blu-Ray = 171
Blu-Ray 3D = 10
SDVD = 585
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post #107 of 190 Old 11-29-2011, 07:38 PM
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mogbert2, the "grid" you are seeing is the result of the polarizing FPR filter that covers the screen and allows the passive glasses to work. It's an unfortunate side effect that comes with the many positives of passive 3d, and is definitely most apparent on bright or white scenes.


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post #108 of 190 Old 11-29-2011, 11:29 PM
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I'm not certain of that, IW. The reason is that the pixels also have a large space between them horizontally. Now, it may be that they had to choose a screen with this kind of separation in order to prevent crosstalk through the FPR. Either way, it makes pictures look like I'm seeing them on a bad CRT rather then I'm actually looking at a picture. I'm still trying to determine if it is worth giving up on 3D displays for that reason or not. I can't go active, so for me it is either passive or some sort of parallax barrier (ala 3DS).

(edit: To be clear, I'm not disagreeing that the FPR and the grid are related, I'm just saying maybe they chose this kind of screen for the FPR rather then the FPR making a normal screen look like this.)

I touched on it before, but the TV really is better at displaying reds then my last LG 32". So much so, I might consider it a tradeoff and keep the set.

One thing I don't really get is why we need middleware or hdmi1.4 in order for a game to display 3D. It seems that interlaced 3D would be easy to calculate inside the game and output at 1080p 60fps over hdmi1.3. Why are we trying to output a squashed SBS signal or 1080p 24fps? It just seems that some of the solutions are bass ackwards. (edit: looked into this, and the reason is standardization. Rather then program different options for every type of TV, they just output a standard signal and let the TV convert it to what it wants. So, you know... nevermind.)

In answer to a previous question, I have a Nvidia GTX570 (super OC'd out of the box). It outperforms GTX580 in some circumstances. It's pretty much as fast as I'd care to go without going SLI (or Crossfire or whatever). However, with Nvidia wanting to charge extra in order to get their card to output a standard 3D signal to a TV, I may defect to ATI next time. I just see it as a very douche move. I've heard the arguments about how they spend man-hours on it, etc... but in which case they should charge us to read their spec sheets or charge for driver updates. There is a point where the company gives away something because if they don't have it, they lose customers, and maybe they just haven't reached that point yet (come on ATI, we need you to poke this sleeping bear!).

Every driver I get from Nvidia has a 3D component it wants to install as well, and previously I haven't installed it (because people were having performance degrade in 2D mode after installing it occasionally). What is that supposed to do? If it isn't outputting a 3D image, then why are they asking everyone to install it all of the time? honestly, when I bought the TV, I thought that would be all I needed to play my games on it.

I'm new at this, and haven't had much time at all lately to play games or sleep, and I'm afraid it's making me cranky. My Google-Fu is suffering and I can't find good information on the pro's and con's of each. Mostly I get a very one sided view where one program was actually handed down from God with the 10 commandments and the other two are the devil's work. Only by reading a number of these have I been able to, maybe, see some of the possible flaws in each.

Does anyone have a fairly unbiased, in-depth review of each of these programs, complete with how well they work, screen shots of how to use them, etc...? I just don't like buying a pig in a poke. When Nvidia was accused of hiding the troubles it's software had, along with the things it couldn't do, they claimed the information was freely available in various posts inside their user forums... so these middleware programs are definitely a case of buyer beware. Need more info, please.

edit2:
ARRRRRGGGGG!!! I finally got 3D working on regular games and stuff through one of the free trials. BAD NEWS!!! This may work for 3D for console games, but if you are planning on using it for computer games, there is a VERY IMPORTANT CAVEAT!

You MUST sit further then 4 FEET away from the screen or you will get areas of the screen (for me, starting with the lower right) where both eyes WILL see both frames. I sit about 2ft to 2.5ft away from the screen in order to reach keyboard mouse. At this point, only about 50% of the screen is POSSIBLE to show 3D images.

Again, this is not a case of "optimal viewing", it is a case of "possible viewing." Any closer then 4ft and areas of the screen WILL fail to display 3D.


I'm sorry, but for my this is the ultimate deal breaker. I will have to attempt to return this screen.

Edit3: Did the math and the screen has an effective vertical viewing angle of about 10 degrees (if you are dead center, the top of the screen is 10 degrees and the bottom of the screen is 10 degrees at 48"). Looks like for me to sit 2ft away from a 32" 16:19 screen, I would need a viewing angle of about 18 degrees (if perfectly positioned, more if I will be off center at all). Seems to me the viewing angle should improve if they can get the FPR film closer to the LCD cells. Either way, I have to return this and come up with another way, or, more likely, just wait until the technology matures more. Am bummed because when it worked it looked great. I would still recommend this TV for small room console gaming.

Edit4: edited some numbers above because I made a small mistake. Screen is 15.5 inches tall and 28 inches wide. I needed to divide 15.5 by 2 to get the right triangle between my eye line and the top of the screen. When I redid the calculations using 7.75, I found I had been trying about an 18 degree viewing angle and it needed about a 10. Just saw a press release on HR274H. A smaller screen could reduce the distance I need to sit to the screen, but I need to see it's vertical viewing angle in order to see how close I could sit.
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post #109 of 190 Old 12-20-2011, 02:50 PM
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I was in wally world today. They had the 42" with 3D blu ray player, HDMI cable, 4 pairs of glasses, $20 credit for vudu, for $698. It you were ever wanting a 3D tv, this is a good deal.

HD DVD = 64
Blu-Ray = 171
Blu-Ray 3D = 10
SDVD = 585
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post #110 of 190 Old 12-21-2011, 03:32 AM
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After struggling so long to get this 3DTV to work for pc games, and trying the paid drivers (such bullcrap to pay for drivers!!!), i found a solution. Im using a 8800 GTS 512, and the nvidia 290 drivers. Since the card is more then 3d capable, it installs the 3D Vision driver, but does not let you enable it unless you pay for 3DTV Play drivers. Now, even if you pay for it, it wont install because it requires a newer generation video card. So even if the card is 3D Capable, it refuses to install unless its on a list of supported cards.

I swear that PC people who have 3DTVs are treated like trash. Anyhow, found a work around! There is a hacked INF file for a zalman monitor, you install it, go to your nvidia control panel, and now when you click Enable Stereoscopic 3D, bam it just works flawlessly. Now my tv is 100% 3D Vision enabled and i didnt have to pay to enable drivers already installed on my PC.

Some of the games look just astounding in 3D, in particular Devil May Cry 4 and Super Street Fighter 4 Arcade Edition both look stunning in 3D on this set. Trine 2 is also AMAZING!!! Try the demo on steam!
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post #111 of 190 Old 12-21-2011, 04:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mogbert2 View Post

I'm not certain of that, IW. The reason is that the pixels also have a large space between them horizontally. Now, it may be that they had to choose a screen with this kind of separation in order to prevent crosstalk through the FPR. Either way, it makes pictures look like I'm seeing them on a bad CRT rather then I'm actually looking at a picture. I'm still trying to determine if it is worth giving up on 3D displays for that reason or not. I can't go active, so for me it is either passive or some sort of parallax barrier (ala 3DS).

(edit: To be clear, I'm not disagreeing that the FPR and the grid are related, I'm just saying maybe they chose this kind of screen for the FPR rather then the FPR making a normal screen look like this.)

I touched on it before, but the TV really is better at displaying reds then my last LG 32". So much so, I might consider it a tradeoff and keep the set.

One thing I don't really get is why we need middleware or hdmi1.4 in order for a game to display 3D. It seems that interlaced 3D would be easy to calculate inside the game and output at 1080p 60fps over hdmi1.3. Why are we trying to output a squashed SBS signal or 1080p 24fps? It just seems that some of the solutions are bass ackwards. (edit: looked into this, and the reason is standardization. Rather then program different options for every type of TV, they just output a standard signal and let the TV convert it to what it wants. So, you know... nevermind.)

In answer to a previous question, I have a Nvidia GTX570 (super OC'd out of the box). It outperforms GTX580 in some circumstances. It's pretty much as fast as I'd care to go without going SLI (or Crossfire or whatever). However, with Nvidia wanting to charge extra in order to get their card to output a standard 3D signal to a TV, I may defect to ATI next time. I just see it as a very douche move. I've heard the arguments about how they spend man-hours on it, etc... but in which case they should charge us to read their spec sheets or charge for driver updates. There is a point where the company gives away something because if they don't have it, they lose customers, and maybe they just haven't reached that point yet (come on ATI, we need you to poke this sleeping bear!).

Every driver I get from Nvidia has a 3D component it wants to install as well, and previously I haven't installed it (because people were having performance degrade in 2D mode after installing it occasionally). What is that supposed to do? If it isn't outputting a 3D image, then why are they asking everyone to install it all of the time? honestly, when I bought the TV, I thought that would be all I needed to play my games on it.

I'm new at this, and haven't had much time at all lately to play games or sleep, and I'm afraid it's making me cranky. My Google-Fu is suffering and I can't find good information on the pro's and con's of each. Mostly I get a very one sided view where one program was actually handed down from God with the 10 commandments and the other two are the devil's work. Only by reading a number of these have I been able to, maybe, see some of the possible flaws in each.

Does anyone have a fairly unbiased, in-depth review of each of these programs, complete with how well they work, screen shots of how to use them, etc...? I just don't like buying a pig in a poke. When Nvidia was accused of hiding the troubles it's software had, along with the things it couldn't do, they claimed the information was freely available in various posts inside their user forums... so these middleware programs are definitely a case of buyer beware. Need more info, please.

edit2:
ARRRRRGGGGG!!! I finally got 3D working on regular games and stuff through one of the free trials. BAD NEWS!!! This may work for 3D for console games, but if you are planning on using it for computer games, there is a VERY IMPORTANT CAVEAT!

You MUST sit further then 4 FEET away from the screen or you will get areas of the screen (for me, starting with the lower right) where both eyes WILL see both frames. I sit about 2ft to 2.5ft away from the screen in order to reach keyboard mouse. At this point, only about 50% of the screen is POSSIBLE to show 3D images.

Again, this is not a case of "optimal viewing", it is a case of "possible viewing." Any closer then 4ft and areas of the screen WILL fail to display 3D.


I'm sorry, but for my this is the ultimate deal breaker. I will have to attempt to return this screen.

Edit3: Did the math and the screen has an effective vertical viewing angle of about 10 degrees (if you are dead center, the top of the screen is 10 degrees and the bottom of the screen is 10 degrees at 48"). Looks like for me to sit 2ft away from a 32" 16:19 screen, I would need a viewing angle of about 18 degrees (if perfectly positioned, more if I will be off center at all). Seems to me the viewing angle should improve if they can get the FPR film closer to the LCD cells. Either way, I have to return this and come up with another way, or, more likely, just wait until the technology matures more. Am bummed because when it worked it looked great. I would still recommend this TV for small room console gaming.

Edit4: edited some numbers above because I made a small mistake. Screen is 15.5 inches tall and 28 inches wide. I needed to divide 15.5 by 2 to get the right triangle between my eye line and the top of the screen. When I redid the calculations using 7.75, I found I had been trying about an 18 degree viewing angle and it needed about a 10. Just saw a press release on HR274H. A smaller screen could reduce the distance I need to sit to the screen, but I need to see it's vertical viewing angle in order to see how close I could sit.

Just for comparison, I have the 47" mount on the wall above my (upside down) L shape computer desk. Mouse is on to my right side, arm resting on the long part of the L. That puts me about 4.5 feet from the monitor for game playing and I can scoosh back about another foot for movie watching. 2.5 feet is a *bit* close. Using a Nvidia Geforce 560Ti.

HD DVD = 64
Blu-Ray = 171
Blu-Ray 3D = 10
SDVD = 585
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post #112 of 190 Old 01-08-2012, 12:17 AM
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Is it true that the 42inch Vizio passive 3D TV has a more forgiving 3D viewing area(sweet spot) than the 32inch Vizio passive 3D model ?
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post #113 of 190 Old 01-12-2012, 07:09 PM
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I just turned on my TV, and it said the firmware was upgraded to 2.17.0000 or something like that. Anyone know what its about?
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post #114 of 190 Old 01-13-2012, 01:21 PM
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Originally Posted by SomeDouche View Post

I just turned on my TV, and it said the firmware was upgraded to 2.17.0000 or something like that. Anyone know what its about?

Check to see if you got the new Youtube and Skype apps, which are likely part of the new update.

Also which size TV do you have?
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post #115 of 190 Old 01-13-2012, 03:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by malakai1911 View Post

Check to see if you got the new Youtube and Skype apps, which are likely part of the new update.

Also which size TV do you have?

32"

Good call, i just noticed the youtube and skype apps. I wonder how the skype app works, will any usb camera work? The youtube app is clunky, but the PQ is excellent, really looks and performed well once playing.

Now, after the update, everything looked worse. I had to do a factory reset of the TV, but now everything looks a LOT sharper then when i bought it new! 3D also looks a whole lot better, much crisper. They had to have done something to the set, cause it looks a lot nicer!
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post #116 of 190 Old 01-16-2012, 01:42 PM
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Originally Posted by SomeDouche View Post

Good call, i just noticed the youtube and skype apps. I wonder how the skype app works, will any usb camera work? The youtube app is clunky, but the PQ is excellent, really looks and performed well once playing.

Now, after the update, everything looked worse. I had to do a factory reset of the TV, but now everything looks a LOT sharper then when i bought it new! 3D also looks a whole lot better, much crisper. They had to have done something to the set, cause it looks a lot nicer!

I just got the update today on my E3D420VX (Firmware went from 1.33.2.0937 to 2.17.0.1100). On your suggestion, I did the factory reset. (The factory firmware apparently doesn't contain the latest Yahoo Connected TV software, so it updated right away and I had to turn the TV off/on for it to go. It updated to 1.5.138.1, same as it was on the old firmware.)

I tried plugging in a Microsoft Webcam I had lying around, and it was not recognized by the Skype app. I assume that there's nothing too special about the Vizio camera, but that maybe they've programmed the TV to only recognize the USB ID of the Vizio camera.
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post #117 of 190 Old 01-24-2012, 08:28 PM
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Well I just caught WallyMarts slippin and picked this 47" baby up for $598! Ha, I've never seen one of them work so fast to re-price something. I was gonna pick up LGLw5600 for $1000 but couldn't turn it down once i saw what price they had on it. It was supposed to be $798 so i saved $220!!
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post #118 of 190 Old 01-24-2012, 08:40 PM
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Would you believe I got the 47" today at Walmart for $600? For a 3D TV, simply could not not buy it. For some reason it was marked as clearance, I think they goofed.

they goofed again!
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post #119 of 190 Old 01-25-2012, 03:11 PM
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^ NICE! Cool ain't it?

HD DVD = 64
Blu-Ray = 171
Blu-Ray 3D = 10
SDVD = 585
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post #120 of 190 Old 01-30-2012, 05:57 AM
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This TV rocks! I played 3d games (2K12, Drakes) for like 24 hours this weekend with no headaches whatsoever. I can only make it an hour or two on my Samsung 51" 3d plasma without being wrecked in the head. I love it!
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