UN55c8000 stereoscopic 3d trouble - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 10 Old 04-16-2011, 08:36 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
KwiqNiss's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 18
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I need help.

INTRO:
When I view side-by-side 3d content, there is a problem with the 3d. It took me a while to figure out that it wasn't just the view distance setting or anything like that. What I realized is that I am able to see each eye's image through each lens of my 3d glasses. The alternate eye's image is dim, but still visible. This isn't a problem in the 'normal' 3d mode that you see on most of today's blu-ray movies, but only with the side-by-side content I've seen.

SCENARIO:
I've only seen this on video games, and only have an Xbox 360 (but I have tried multiple Xbox 360's and multiple games which support stereoscopic 3d).
I load the game, turn 3d on.
I turn the tv to 3d, side-by-side.
I turn on the 3d glasses.

TV is Samsung UN55c8000
Glasses are Samsung SSG-2100AB/ZA

ISSUE DESCRIPTION:
If I close (or cover) an eye/lens, I can see the main image for that eye, bright and clear. The issue is that with that eye/lens closed/covered, I can see the image intended for the other eye as well; it is dim but it is an exact double image of everything on the screen a few pixels off from the main image (amount of distance between objects vary based on the depth of the objects.) This is the image for the other eye. It is dim, but it's there. It's like my glasses are alternating at the wrong interval (opening early/ closing late/ something like that).
This only happens with side-by-side mode on this set. I have two sets of these glasses and both do it, but only when the tv is in side-by-side mode. I think it may be an issue with the TV sending the IR signal to the glasses at the wrong interval when doing a side by side image. I really think the alternating frequency is off for side-by-side mode but would be open to hearing from someone who knows different.

GOAL:
What I'm hoping to find here is either:
* People who have had this issue and
*** Have had it fixed
*** Haven't had it fixed, but noticed the exact same issue, especially if it's with a samsung product, especially if its the UN55c8000 or something in that line
* People who know how to fix this issue or who can say this is defect or by design
* Anyone who plays Crisis 2 or Black Ops on 360 in 3d mode who does or doesn't experience this issue, whether or not you have my same tv or glasses, but please list your tv and glasses model number
* Anyone who can narrow this down to a particular component ( I think TV, but I don't exactly have another 3d TV laying around I can test that on.)
* The name of the test I should have a technician run to prove the IR signal to the glasses is or isn't off time from the screen refresh (if there is such a test)
* Anything else that might be helpful

NOTE:
Also to Note: I have tried different cables and different components on the same cable, and this issue only reproduces in this scenario, but it is worth pointing out I've only seen videogames do stereoscopic 3d. If anyone knows of some other stereoscopic (side-by-side) 3d blu-ray content, that would be helpful. I've tried multiple Xbox 360's, the old style and the new slim model; they all behave this way.
Additionally, when I first press the game option for 3d (before I press the 3d button on the tv and put on glasses, while you can still see two seperate images on the screen) I can see the two seperate images and notice they don't have the incorrectly shaded pixels. So this must be something the tv is doing when it overlays/alternates the images. (Again, I think this is just that the IR signal to the glasses isn't in time with the screen refresh.)

Any help is very much appreciated. Thank you avsforum community for your opinions and experience.
KwiqNiss is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 10 Old 04-16-2011, 04:54 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
KwiqNiss's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 18
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Edited for clarity and details. Bump because I need help.
KwiqNiss is offline  
post #3 of 10 Old 04-16-2011, 06:22 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
KwiqNiss's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 18
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
After reading some more on this forum, I guess I could sum this up by saying, I'm experiencing crosstalk b/w left and right eye due to (what seems like) emitter mis-timing while side-by-side mode is in use (but not while using frame packing).

Can anyone confirm if this is common with any of the following?
Samsung UN55c8000
Samsung SSG-2100AB/ZA
Xbox 360
Onkyo Tx-sr608
KwiqNiss is offline  
post #4 of 10 Old 04-19-2011, 04:25 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
KwiqNiss's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 18
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Bump. Help please.
KwiqNiss is offline  
post #5 of 10 Old 04-19-2011, 05:23 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
KwiqNiss's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 18
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Can anyone confirm that they've played these games and have or havenot seen the issue I'm speaking of?
Can anyone name a test that measures if the IR is in time with the screen refresh?
Can anyone suggest any BD content that is stereoscopic 3d (side by side, preferably)
KwiqNiss is offline  
post #6 of 10 Old 04-20-2011, 07:11 AM
AVS Special Member
 
TonyDP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,864
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 29 Post(s)
Liked: 54
What you are experiencing is, unfortunately, typical of stereoscopic 3D games on consoles played thru an LCD or plasma TV with active shutter 3D glasses. Given the amount of calculations needed to essentially draw everything twice, a drop in resolution and some degree of ghosting is inevitable with current generation consoles. It varies from game to game but I've personally seen it on numerous games running on both the 360 and PS3.

I find the type of ghosting you are referring to most prevalent when you have very bright foreground images in front of dark backgrounds. Killzone 3 for the PS3 has a lot of sequences like this (especially during cinematics) and the ghosting is particularly bad. I recall that Black Ops had similar occurrences in some of its sequences.

If the game has controls for adjusting the strength of the depth and/or convergence (ie: stuff popping out of the screen) you can alleviate the ghosting somewhat by dialing those setting down but the cost is that the sense of depth will also be weaker.

While I can't confirm it personally some people swear that DLP sets and the new Passive 3D TVs from LG and Vizio do a far better job of eliminating or minimizing ghosting so if it really bothers you, you can look at either of those technologies as well.
TonyDP is offline  
post #7 of 10 Old 04-21-2011, 05:27 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
KwiqNiss's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 18
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
@TonyDP, can you tell me what equipment you're viewing this affect on? TV model, glasses model, Xbox vs PS3 vs PC, etc.
Thank you for the reply. Unfortunately, to eliminate the 'ghosting' I have to turn the 3d strength to 0 on Crysis. I've not tried adjusting 3d depth on Black Ops. I did notice it's worse with bright objects on darker backgrounds, but that's just because it stands out more. In actuality, everything is doing it and I've decided to play in 2d until I can get this fix. My big concern is that Samsung said if they sent someone out to test it, and if they say nothing is wrong, then I'd be responsible to pay whoever they sent out. Additionally, they gave no troubleshooting over the phone, and didn't suggest any content to me to see if this was all stereoscopic 3d on the set, or just from the 360.

I'd really like to know if anyone knows of a BD that does stereoscopic, as I have witnessed the Blu-Ray do frame packing without this ghosting, and would like to see if the TV still has this problem. If so, I'll keep pushing Samsung to fix it, and tell them to send someone out. If it doesn't repro in every scenario, then I can't very well blame it on Samsung's equipment, but if every stereoscopic content has this effect, then I'll make Samsung do something about it.

Btw, I think I should mention again that if you view the side-by-side content without the 3d on the Tv turned on, and without the glasses on, you actually see two seperate images, with no ghosting, so I don't think the game is drawing the picture wrong. It just seems like the wrong image is displayed for a portion of the time the shutter is open for the opposite eye. It seems like if the game is capable of producing the two seperate images simultaneously, the TV should be capable of overlaying them, alternating appropriately and blinking the IR for the glasses at the right time.



Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyDP View Post
What you are experiencing is, unfortunately, typical of stereoscopic 3D games on consoles played thru an LCD or plasma TV with active shutter 3D glasses. Given the amount of calculations needed to essentially draw everything twice, a drop in resolution and some degree of ghosting is inevitable with current generation consoles. It varies from game to game but I've personally seen it on numerous games running on both the 360 and PS3.

I find the type of ghosting you are referring to most prevalent when you have very bright foreground images in front of dark backgrounds. Killzone 3 for the PS3 has a lot of sequences like this (especially during cinematics) and the ghosting is particularly bad. I recall that Black Ops had similar occurrences in some of its sequences.

If the game has controls for adjusting the strength of the depth and/or convergence (ie: stuff popping out of the screen) you can alleviate the ghosting somewhat by dialing those setting down but the cost is that the sense of depth will also be weaker.

While I can't confirm it personally some people swear that DLP sets and the new Passive 3D TVs from LG and Vizio do a far better job of eliminating or minimizing ghosting so if it really bothers you, you can look at either of those technologies as well.
KwiqNiss is offline  
post #8 of 10 Old 04-21-2011, 06:26 PM
AVS Special Member
 
TonyDP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,864
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 29 Post(s)
Liked: 54
I have a Samsung PN63C8000 plasma; it is their 2010 63" model. I also have a PS3, a 360 and a Samsung BD6900 3D BluRay player. I've used both Samsung's SSG2100 glasses and the Xpand 103 universal 3D glasses.

When you reduce the 3D depth to 0 using in game settings, you're basically viewing the game in 2D as the stereo separation between the left and right images is non-existent.

In terms of games I do not believe any of the 3D games on the 360 are frame-packed; I'm pretty sure they are all side-by-side or top-bottom.

Generally speaking, you'll have a better experience with 3D BluRay movies than with videogames. Try watching a few and see how your set handles them. If you have a more satisfactory experience then you know that the problem isn't entirely with your TV set. Any movie with the BluRay 3D logo will be frame-packed and there are plenty of threads on various movies that have been released. Personally, I own the following and they all exhibit minimal ghosting: Tron 3D, Tahiti: Ultimate Wave, Hubble 3D, Open Season, Grand Canyon Adventure
TonyDP is offline  
post #9 of 10 Old 05-01-2011, 07:42 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
KwiqNiss's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 18
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
bump
KwiqNiss is offline  
post #10 of 10 Old 05-01-2011, 08:59 PM
Senior Member
 
neo0285's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 262
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Samsung lcds are known to have the worst crosstalk, it's something you have to deal with it, or look at other tvs, sorry
neo0285 is offline  
Reply 3D Displays

Tags
Samsung Un55c8000 55 Inch 1080p 240 Hz 3d Led Hdtv
Gear in this thread

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off