HDTV Refresh rates and 3D - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 9 Old 06-19-2011, 03:53 PM - Thread Starter
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Hey all got a question about 3D tvs. Just wondering if the tv's refresh rates affect 3D. When the first 3D tvs came out (led lcd/shutter glass tv's) I think they were advertised as 100hz, I went over for the demo at Harvey norman but it made me feel a bit dizzy/sickly and I ended up with a headache. There was also some flicker and fair amount of crosstalk. Now the tvs like samsung are advertising 400hz. Does this higher refresh rate improve the 3D picture help eliminate the ghosting flicker and make for more comfortable viewing? I am also looking at the lg passive cinema tv which seems to fix the 3d issues I was having but was also hoping to get skype on tv as well. thanks in advance cheers
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post #2 of 9 Old 06-20-2011, 08:07 AM
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Most people that experience a dizzy / sick feeling leading to a headache also get it from pay theater 3D as well. So I don't think so.

Flicker gets somewhat better with refresh rates. 400hz is in part a marketing gimmick because the content is not being delivered at those refresh rates.

Real 240 exists, 120 is common. But, even on those sets? In 3D you get 120hz, well not really you get 60 per eye.

Crosstalk is interesting and is generally not related to refresh rate. Single chip dlp display tech has virtually none to speak of. At 120hz or 60 per eye if you will.
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post #3 of 9 Old 06-20-2011, 08:31 AM
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In Europe a 400Hz 1080p 3D TV can display 1080p/100 per eye and also display a Black frame after each video frame in order to reduce/eliminate video crosstalk. In the US a 480HZ LCD TV uses the same technique to reduce 3D video crosstalk.
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post #4 of 9 Old 06-20-2011, 09:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by walford View Post

In Europe a 400Hz 1080p 3D TV can display 1080p/100 per eye and also display a Black frame after each video frame in order to reduce/eliminate video crosstalk. In the US a 480HZ LCD TV uses the same technique to reduce 3D video crosstalk.

True, I was refering to only the content stream. I do still see reports of crosstalk on the highest refresh rated sets out there, so I'd still call it a marketing gimmick mostly.
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post #5 of 9 Old 06-20-2011, 04:38 PM - Thread Starter
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So how do I tell if its 120hz native? As far as the sickly feeling goes it was almost instant when viewing tv with shutter glasses(but it was a tv they has at the launch of 3D). The lg cinema 3d tv does not seem to affect me but I only viewed for about 10-15mins. I guess I will have to wait and check out plasma and shutter galss lcd as well as the polarised sceen again next time I am at Harvey norman. Cheers
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post #6 of 9 Old 06-20-2011, 06:39 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by walford View Post
In Europe a 400Hz 1080p 3D TV can display 1080p/100 per eye and also display a Black frame after each video frame in order to reduce/eliminate video crosstalk. In the US a 480HZ LCD TV uses the same technique to reduce 3D video crosstalk.
Are you sure about that?

That's 40Hz faster than USA 3DTVs (60Hz per eye).

I was under the impression that the LCD UK sets work the same as the LCD USA sets; 240Hz with black frame insertion yields 120Hz total which is 60Hz per eye. For the UK, it would be 200Hz with BFI yielding 100Hz total and 50Hz per eye.

I am talking about active shutter glasses 3DTVs, not passive glasses 3DTVs
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post #7 of 9 Old 06-21-2011, 07:49 AM
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Thanks Lee for correcting me.
You are correct European 3D only requires 50 Hz per eye.
So with BFI on 3D 200 Hz would be required.
A 400Hz set could however, use frame interpolation for motion compensation and then would output 100 fps per eye before BFI.
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post #8 of 9 Old 06-20-2013, 10:55 AM
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Hello... I am very confused on what tech to buy.

I need to know something about the HDMI 1.4 3D standards. The older HDMI 1.3 3D standards were made and designed around 120hz frame sequential formats and the early formats correct?

That meant the display had to have 120hz input for that 3D format. This included and still includes PC monitors and Projectors... Correct? NOW

let me Ask this right...

The new 3D standards only require 60hz total since they use FRAME-PACKED 3D and split/compress the formats like Top/Bottom Side By Side into one single frame for both eyes to see at the same time : All packed in 1 frame for both eyes... This makes the 120hz requirement no longer needed for 60hz MAX input sources... Correct?

THIS means that ALL 3DTVs on the market accept the 60hz input signal and that is the requirement for these new standards... correct?

This also means that ALL TV sets in general only display 60hz at all times unless they have special "Frame Interpolation" Scanning back light tech turned on. So in FACT... NO TV or 3DTV on the market is even 120hz... They are all 60hz... Correct?

They all are 60hz when in normal operation... That is why they can do 3D on the HDMI 1.4 formats and not exceed bandwidth... correct?


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post #9 of 9 Old 06-20-2013, 05:28 PM
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So I was able to make forced refresh rates of (70hz - 120hz) on my Panasonic Plasma with Custom EDID timings... Anything higher than (70-85hz) on Progressive formats caused screen waves and frequency shaking "distortion".

1920x1080i (Interlaced) @ 120hz
1280x720i (Interlaced) @ 120hz
1920x1080p (Progressive) @ 70-85Hz
1280x720p (Progressive) @ 70-85Hz

So now I wonder to myself something...

I wonder if the nVidia 3D vision Kit I am getting soon would work on this Plasma! smile.gif

http://www.nvidia.com/object/3d-vision-system-requirements.html

All nVidia says you need is a 120hz capable display + 3D Vision kit and glasses + nvidia GPU + PC


MAYBE! I just wonder If I could get Nvidia 3D vision to accept the 1080i,720i 120hz signal?
MAYBE! if it could just accept the beefier 70-85hz modes for 1080p,720p?! biggrin.gif


Honestly my Panasonic has great interlacing/interlacing tech performance... I couldn't really tell the difference between the 1080i 120hz and 1080p 85hz as far as picture quality goes.

Check this site out. LOTS of people are testing their TV capabilities with EDID edits and custom timings only to find hidden supported refresh rates! biggrin.gif



Any thoughts on this and if there is a way to make custom resolutions and timings for Nvidia 3D Vision?
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