Top-Bottom 3D vs. Side-by-Side on Passive Display - Page 4 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #91 of 116 Old 07-27-2012, 09:46 AM
Advanced Member
 
Roussi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: NW USA
Posts: 548
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 21
The tv most probably needs to be told (from the 3D menu) that it is being fed SbS and ToB formats. It will recognise the frame-packed ("HDMI 3D") format automatically, there is no separate setting for that (just "auto").
Roussi is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #92 of 116 Old 08-03-2012, 04:19 PM
Advanced Member
 
Michael2000's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 894
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jedi2016 View Post

You really think you're going to change my mind? I'm sure as hell not going to change yours, so I'm done discussing it. Believe what you want. I'll stick with what I can see, thanks.

Apparently, some people's eye's are different than others, which is no surprise. Many people's brains do NOT interlace the images together creating a 1080 image, and, consequently, they see black lines. Perhaps they have dominant eyes.

From Cnet,

"The 3D image with passive is more pleasing to look at, likely due to the better brightness and the lack of a rapidly shuttering shutters shuttering all the time. The glasses are way more comfortable, especially for those of us already bespectacled.

However, and this is key, the half resolution mentioned earlier is readily noticeable, as are the jagged line artifacts. The TV doesn't have to be super big, nor do you have to sit abnormally close, to be able to see both. LG claims they show all the resolution in the 1080p signal to each eye temporally. As in, the TV shows the odd lines of resolution on the odd lines of the TV, then flash the even lines of resolution on the odd lines of the TV (and the opposite for the even lines). The LG TV I reviewed recently didn't look soft, but that was hardly the issue. If you're considering a passive 3D, make sure you find one in a store and stand at the distance you'll be sitting from it. I found the artifacts and lines in the image quite distracting."

The bottom line is go with what works for you, but don't expect everyone to follow suit.

Michael
Michael2000 is offline  
post #93 of 116 Old 08-17-2012, 04:02 PM
Newbie
 
Guig2000's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 1
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
With a passive display, the simpler is to use line interleaved, because it's the that this monitors/TV display the 3D. So that you even don't activate the 3D mode of the display, just wear your 3D glasses and that's done. Additionnally, it allow to play using 1080@60Hz.

The only issue appear with TV (not monitor): as the lines of the signal must match the lines of the display, on the computer side, the user must choose the native resolution of the TV (usually 1920*1080) and disable overscanning. The TV must be set iin computer mode or all kind of motion/picture enhancement must be disabled.
Guig2000 is offline  
post #94 of 116 Old 08-24-2012, 04:15 PM
Newbie
 
hesido's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 1
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I have an LG 42LW4500. I think the best content would be TAB for passive displays, as we lose half of the vertical image for each eye anyway, for 1080p content.

Some on this thread claim the passive sets 'flash' even and odd lines to a single eye, alternating at 120hz, so each eye "sees" the full vertical image. But this in itself would be a form of flickering, albeit small due the soft transitions between alternating lines, and you would be displaying different located image information at the same spatial space, as one eye always sees the same odd or even lines.

I don't think this is the case anyway (each eye being given full resolution by alternating at 120hz). It should be easy to test: prepare a 1080p SBS (NOT top and bottom) content with alternating black and white lines. If what is claimed is true, we would see a whole gray picture as the set would try to serve the whole vertical resolution. But I don't think this would be the case. I think such a test would help proving that indeed we lose the vertical image resolution anyway, and that TAB is better for passive displays. So someone please do that smile.gif

edit: Now that I think about it this wouldn't be the definitive test, as the set could merge two lines, thus creating the gray image (still losing vertical resolution, but showing a gray picture without that 120hz alternating pixel color claim)
hesido is offline  
post #95 of 116 Old 10-04-2012, 05:44 AM
Newbie
 
3D H-OU's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 1
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
I hope by now everyone is well in agreement that for passive 3D sets (like the LG47LW550 I have), TaB - also known as OverUnder is by far the preferred format for this technology.

Remember, because1080p passive sets can only display half the vertical resolution due to HARDWARE (when displaying 3D i.e. 540 lines per eye), anything of higher vertical resolution is "bottlenecked" to that limit.

So, for SBS format on a passive 3D set, even though 960x1080 is sent to the TV, it can only display 960x540 (i.e. the vertical resolution of 1080p is "hardware bottlenecked" to 540 lines per eye for 3D). Much better to send through an OU/TaB format which at 1920x540 can display all the 540 vertical lines, and 1920 horizontal as opposed to only 960 if SBS was used.

Passive 1080p 3D set displays:
H-SBS = 960x540, and H-OU = 1920x540

Active 1080p 3D set displays:
H-SBS = 960x1080, and H-OU = 1920x540

Now, go and search out all the wonderful 3D H-OU movies out there. On a passive set, they'll blow your mind!!!! smile.gif
danbfree likes this.
3D H-OU is offline  
post #96 of 116 Old 10-17-2012, 10:09 AM
Newbie
 
slavenvrhova's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 5
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I have a problem with watching 3d HALF OU movies.
It looks like 3D images do not mach on each other.
But HSBS is very good.

i have LG 42LM615S LED 3D. and it has opsions for SBS and TOP TO BOTTOM. But top to bottom is not good as i explained.
is there something wrong i maby doing?
Please help.
slavenvrhova is offline  
post #97 of 116 Old 10-17-2012, 11:14 AM
GEP
Advanced Member
 
GEP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 677
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 17
Keep in mind that the required OU format for HDMI is 1080p 24Hz - not common to find and 720p 60Hz - common but requires scaling to fill a 1080p TV. There is a possiblity of OU in 1080i but that does complicate the decoding some.

There is no perfect format for any 3D TV. All of the formats require some form of interpolation and/or scaling before display.
GEP is offline  
post #98 of 116 Old 10-17-2012, 02:29 PM
Newbie
 
slavenvrhova's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 5
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I watched it in 1080p 60hz.
maby that was the problem
slavenvrhova is offline  
post #99 of 116 Old 10-17-2012, 02:37 PM
Newbie
 
slavenvrhova's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 5
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
i tried in 24hz, and it is no better.

how do i do that interpolarization or skailing?????

TEACH ME
slavenvrhova is offline  
post #100 of 116 Old 10-17-2012, 02:48 PM
Newbie
 
slavenvrhova's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 5
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
hOW CAN I DO THAT SCALING AND POLARIZATION TO MAKE IT LOOK GOOD.

I DONT HAVE TO DO THAT FOR H-SBS MOVIES. EVERY H-SBS MOVIE IS PERFECT. BUT H-OU ARE NOT GOOD AT ALL. WHEN I PUT MY 3D PASSIVE GLASSES I CAN STILL SE TWO IMAGES. THEY DONT COMBINE INTO ONE IMAGE.

IT SEAMS LIKE THARE IS SOME SETTINGS REQUIRED, BUT I DONT KNOW WHAT TO DO.

CAN SOMEONE TEL ME EXACTLY WHAT TO DO?????
slavenvrhova is offline  
post #101 of 116 Old 10-19-2012, 09:29 AM
GEP
Advanced Member
 
GEP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 677
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 17
Interpolation not Inerpolariztion. Interpoation is the TV creating the pixels missing from the original singals because of half resolution nature of the OU signal. Scaling is changing the signal from one resolution to another such as from 720p to 1080p. You don't control either of these in the TV. The TV does it automatically. If you have a computer or can change the resolution output from the source device, that is an option but the source device still may do a poor job and screw up the 3D signal.
GEP is offline  
post #102 of 116 Old 12-03-2012, 11:28 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Devedander's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,144
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 34
For Passive 1080 sets ou or TaB is definitely best... I have tested with both options and SBS gives a softer overall picture while TaB gives much better detail and sharpness. The math stands up behind this as TaBs 540 lines of vertical resolution is stretched two 1080 lines then every other one is lost resultgin in all original 540 lines of resolution being shown.

As for the arguments about passive and resolution I posted these alreadly:

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1437658/keep-3d-active-or-make-switch-to-passive-3d-tv/60#post_22625913

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1437658/keep-3d-active-or-make-switch-to-passive-3d-tv/60#post_22625968

In short you can argue anyhing you want but passive sets suffer a resolution issue against active not just in numbers but also in actual use where aliasing plays a huge role in the image especially during overlay text.

I personally elieve this happens beuase your brani IS trying to mesh two pitures.... when the lines are complex detail items with easily recognized patterns the brain meshes properly (each image line for one eye between the ones for the other eye) this makes the most sense to the brain as this makes a cohesive pictue whereas if you laid each eyes image ilne on the others you ge ta blurry mismash.

Conversly when you get high contrast (ie text overlays) the image that makes the most sense (on a small scale) is that you are lookign at two sets of stripes and all the black lines and white lines line up on each other. So ratehr than interperating the left eye and right eye being offset vertically, the brain essentially lays the white lines on the other white lines and black lines on the other black lines.... of course this results in the edges not mathching up well and getting nasty edges.

Also the process of combining interleaved images is not like the process of combinging interlaced images on CRTs or even active shutter glasses.... a large part of that process is image retention - the process where by an image sees an image for a while after it's gone. This effectively means that quickly showing alternating lines to the SAME eye is pretty close to showing all the lines to that eye. Showing a constant set of lines to each eye does not allow for image retention to help blend things before they get to the brain.

The argument that there is no vertical parallax confuses me as to why it's important... this is most important when things have a glare or reflection - each eye sees a different glare or reflection even at the exact same height. So when you toss one eyes view of an item out, you are actually msising image data.

Even without glare and reflections per se each eye sees different things on the same veritcal plane.

That said image quality is not based entirely on resolution - anyone rememer the SP4805? Despite being 480p it had an incredible image due to excellent color accuracy and saturation. I watched many hi def videos on it and swear I resolved image detail that isn't technically possible at that resolution. That's largely why many people like the passive image... it's bright and contrasty - which is also the reason TV's demo modes are bright and contrasty... put a bright contrastly 720p TV next to a dim and low contrast 1080p TV and I bet most people will like the 720P set better even at relatively close range.... similar with passive vs active. All depends on what you are looking for.

Monster Gold Plated Optical Cables: http://monstercable.com/productPage.asp?pin=1263

Awesome user review: "Unreal quality. Sounded like I upgraded my speakers." :D
Devedander is offline  
post #103 of 116 Old 12-26-2012, 05:43 AM
Newbie
 
tharocky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 3
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
hi. i have a passive 3dtv, LG 55LM620S and same problem as slavenvrhova few posts back. so problem with top and bottom 3d source movies - they dont display correctly on the tv, cant even explain what is wrong, picture looks like zoomed or stretched and with passive glasses on, its very hurtfull for the eyes . i have my computer and tv connected via dvi to hdmi cable, if that helps in any way determining, what is wrong.

i have read the whole thread, but i just cant understand everything you guys are saying, cause i have problems with english technical words. so i also dont understand, how is TAB better than SBS on passive display, since i cant watch it. so i just need some explanation, why cant i play TAB 3d movie normally. if it is resolution problem, how do i fix this? if its tv problem, should i return it or something?

for playback i use powerdvd and vlc, both stretch picture the same way. anyways SBS works completely fine. i'm kinda desperate, thanks for your answers in advance.
tharocky is offline  
post #104 of 116 Old 12-28-2012, 05:43 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Devedander's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,144
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by tharocky View Post

hi. i have a passive 3dtv, LG 55LM620S and same problem as slavenvrhova few posts back. so problem with top and bottom 3d source movies - they dont display correctly on the tv, cant even explain what is wrong, picture looks like zoomed or stretched and with passive glasses on, its very hurtfull for the eyes . i have my computer and tv connected via dvi to hdmi cable, if that helps in any way determining, what is wrong.
i have read the whole thread, but i just cant understand everything you guys are saying, cause i have problems with english technical words. so i also dont understand, how is TAB better than SBS on passive display, since i cant watch it. so i just need some explanation, why cant i play TAB 3d movie normally. if it is resolution problem, how do i fix this? if its tv problem, should i return it or something?
for playback i use powerdvd and vlc, both stretch picture the same way. anyways SBS works completely fine. i'm kinda desperate, thanks for your answers in advance.

When you choose the 3D mode you are choosing the top and bottom split and not the side by side split right?

What exactly do you mean it stretches it... like which way does it stretch it and do you still see both frames or just one? Maybe post a picture of your screen showing the picture stretched?

Monster Gold Plated Optical Cables: http://monstercable.com/productPage.asp?pin=1263

Awesome user review: "Unreal quality. Sounded like I upgraded my speakers." :D
Devedander is offline  
post #105 of 116 Old 12-29-2012, 01:07 AM
Newbie
 
tharocky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 3
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
yes, i'm choosing right 3d mode. and as i said, its really hard to explain, how its seen through glasses. when glasses off, its seem just "normal" 3d, only streched like frames go above and under tv edges. i must say, when i read this thread again, i tried several resolution options. i tried to set resolution to 720p60hz, and it solves the problem, movie plays awesome, and now i agree TAB being a little bit better for me too. but this cant be permanent resolution, since all my source videos are 1080p, so lowering resolution doesnt make sense, or at least 1080p TAB movies for me doesnt make sense smile.gif.

so as i susspected, something has to do with resolution of source video. my default resolution is 1080p60hz.
tharocky is offline  
post #106 of 116 Old 12-29-2012, 02:31 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Devedander's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,144
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 34
What are you using to play these with? Can you try 1080i/60?

Monster Gold Plated Optical Cables: http://monstercable.com/productPage.asp?pin=1263

Awesome user review: "Unreal quality. Sounded like I upgraded my speakers." :D
Devedander is offline  
post #107 of 116 Old 12-29-2012, 08:21 AM
Newbie
 
tharocky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 3
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
powerdvd 12. and tried also with vlc, its the same. cant even set what you're suggesting. when on 1080i, default value is 30hz, and when i try to go to 60, automatically changes to 1080p. on 1080i30hz, problem is still there, and all the other 1080i/p from 24-60hz - no change. as i was saying, that it stretches picture - its more like frame which is seen with right eye has too big offset from left one, so it doesnt add up. or sth. :S
tharocky is offline  
post #108 of 116 Old 12-29-2012, 04:23 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Devedander's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,144
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by tharocky View Post

powerdvd 12. and tried also with vlc, its the same. cant even set what you're suggesting. when on 1080i, default value is 30hz, and when i try to go to 60, automatically changes to 1080p. on 1080i30hz, problem is still there, and all the other 1080i/p from 24-60hz - no change. as i was saying, that it stretches picture - its more like frame which is seen with right eye has too big offset from left one, so it doesnt add up. or sth. :S

Can you take a picture of your TV screen and post it? Also are you sure you have your resolution set properly on your computer for that screen and it's over HDMI I assume?

Have you tried playing the file directly on the TV (plug a USB drive of some kind into the TV and play from there)? That would help determine if the problem exists in the video file itself (ie it's not really split down the middle).

Monster Gold Plated Optical Cables: http://monstercable.com/productPage.asp?pin=1263

Awesome user review: "Unreal quality. Sounded like I upgraded my speakers." :D
Devedander is offline  
post #109 of 116 Old 04-02-2013, 04:19 PM
Newbie
 
binhaus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 3
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
for those who use lg passive tv with full 3d each eyes .. you may change the DEEP of 3d effect to 0 .. so you will not see two pictures differ ...

I have this tips from http://www.xaluan.com but it on Vietnamese.
binhaus is offline  
post #110 of 116 Old 06-25-2013, 12:48 PM
Newbie
 
mkerner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 6
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Hi all. I have the same problem with OU not working properly on my LG 55LA7400. SBS works great but with OU the pictures just don't line up and I end up with two images. Opening credits are so far off you can see two lines of text with space in between them. I will take a pic of it tonight and post. I am using XBMC to stream over HDMI through a Pioneer VSX-1021 receiver. Maybe the HDMI cables aren't new enough or high enough quality? I will try some other suggestions tonight like telling XBMC to use 720p which seemed to fix the issue for one user here (sorry I can't see the username) but I don't think this is a good permanent solution since I want 1080p quality. I will also try by putting the movie on USB and play it straight through the TV. Will the LG play mkv files natively like that? Anyway, has anyone figured this out or have other suggestions
Thanks!
mkerner is offline  
post #111 of 116 Old 06-26-2013, 06:57 AM
Newbie
 
mkerner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 6
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Found it. It was my XBMC. Running the file straight over my home network through the TV looked great. Unfortunately this lacks many of the controls I get with XBMC so I kept trying and found that I just had to change the view mode of the XBMC. IT defaults to "Normal" and I have to use "Original" Just thought I'd post it for those having trouble.
mkerner is offline  
post #112 of 116 Old 05-27-2014, 10:44 AM
Newbie
 
fflittle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 2
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10

My concern has always been the Z resolution obtained in stereo display. Since the eyes are horizontally displaced, the Z resolution is the tangent of the interocular angle times the X resolution. HOU has twice the Z resolution of HSBS. a clear choice.

fflittle is offline  
post #113 of 116 Old 05-28-2014, 07:07 PM
Member
 
SoToS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 49
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank View Post

I disabled the smooth motion and it had no effect on the lack of 3D.
It's really bizarre what it's doing and doesn't make a lick of sense to me.
There must be some algorithm in play that's causing it.

Apparently the algorithm is sensing that the incoming signal is interleaved and simply not handing it correctly unless the 3D mode of the TV is forced on.

Hi Frank, I'm also interested in feeding passive TVs with Row Interleaved signal.
Do you mean that if you supply a Row Interleaved image to 65LM6200 it will be displayed correctly in 3D if you manually force 3D mode (as the manual says)?
Then you should not have any problem to display the source in a window too -but if I understand you correctly, while that works, you just don't want to manually set the 3D mode, right?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank View Post

Both my other passive displays show in 3D while receiving the same input.
What are the other passive models that this works in 2D mode?
SoToS is offline  
post #114 of 116 Old 05-29-2014, 01:53 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Devedander's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,144
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by fflittle View Post

My concern has always been the Z resolution obtained in stereo display. Since the eyes are horizontally displaced, the Z resolution is the tangent of the interocular angle times the X resolution. HOU has twice the Z resolution of HSBS. a clear choice.

This is a very good point... I really don't see where HSBS is superior to HOU except HMDs.

Monster Gold Plated Optical Cables: http://monstercable.com/productPage.asp?pin=1263

Awesome user review: "Unreal quality. Sounded like I upgraded my speakers." :D
Devedander is offline  
post #115 of 116 Old 07-12-2014, 07:45 PM
Newbie
 
pookgai's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 9
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I was curious, does the OU is better with Passive Displays rule still apply for 4K displays?
pookgai is offline  
post #116 of 116 Old 07-27-2014, 09:53 AM
Newbie
 
fflittle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 2
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Irrelevant
fflittle is offline  
Reply 3D Displays

Tags
3d Hdtv , New Lg 55 3d Led Lcd Smart Tv Wifi 1080p 55lw5600 , Lcd Hdtv
Gear in this thread

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off