Sony HMZ-T1 HMD Owner's dedicated thread - Page 10 - AVS Forum
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post #271 of 3382 Old 11-11-2011, 11:03 AM
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^Didn't they remove the ability to play SACDs in later PS3 designs {and maybe some other stuff, I'm not sure} ?

EDIT: OOps, the post this was addressing seems to have vanished. Nevermind.

In A/V reproduction accuracy, there is no concept of "accounting for taste". We don't "pick" the level of bass any more than we get to pick the ending of a play. High fidelity is an unbiased, neutral, exact copy (or "reproduction") of the original source's tonal balance, timing, dynamics, etc..

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post #272 of 3382 Old 11-11-2011, 11:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul H View Post

The problem I have is that when I get the 100% clear image and adjust the fit, the adjustment itself puts tension on the HMD (bends the plastic parts?) and the image is no longer 100% clear. As long as the adjustment supports are loose, I can keep it right by holding the HMD, just like I would have to hold a viewmaster as a kid. A center strap across the head (front-to-back) for weight support could take the tension off the strap, and might solve the problem.

Hmm... I just tested a couple of different tensions. I found that looser is better in terms of image quality.

Sony's manual shows a person looking straight ahead and the HMD basically parallel to the ground. I'm trying to emulate that, and the closer I get the better the image quality gets in terms of the blurry edges.

I'd rate the blurriness at about 10%-15% on one side at its worse.

So far I have loosened the top strap twice, and left the lower strap the same. I am going to go one step looser on the top strap and see what happens. As I said before, this is counter intuitive!

Quote:
Originally Posted by m. zillch View Post

Have you tried looking at a paused image, with good detail all the way out to the edges, and while viewing this test pattern forcibly push and pull the the visor alternatively closer to and farther from your eyes?

With binoculars, which I am more familiar with, this concept of the focus distance to the eye surface is called "eye relief". There may be a very shallow window where in order to achieve proper focus the distance has to be held precisely, to the millimeter, away from the eyes with this Sony product. [I only got a quick demo in the store so I never had a chance to test for this.]

Another possibility is that the focal plane which the optics project is not really a flat plane, at all, but rather a curved bowl shaped distance. The give away to that would be that there is a precise distance which will have the center in precise focus, at the expense of the edges, or a slightly different distance which will achieve corner sharpness at the expense of precise center field focus.

Please try this out and let us know, thanks.

Distance from head, horizontal positioning and lateral positioning all affect the image. There's also the ocular distance, which I have set to minimum. So all these issues make it kind of hard to get a perfect image across 100% of the screen. But it's possible, I've done it... now I just have to do it again.

I will try your test this evening. If I don't report back, please remind me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by edo1946 View Post

It is visible when you look for it but the 3d brightness and color quality compensates. (not nearly as bad as pictures midnight published below). Maybe after that novelty wears off it will become more of an issue. Sigh...always trade offs..

Yes, there is no perfect technology. I have a CRT and I'm loathe to give it up. This is a great solution to get 3D, especially since the quality of 3D is so high.

I see the pixel grid. It's especially noticeable when letters (particularly white ones) are showing on-screen. For me, it's "bad" but not enough to make me return the device. I can also see pixels on a Digital IMAX projection when sitting 4 rows up the incline. I find it annoying, so I am more sensitive to this issue.

I also believe a future 1080p version will resolve this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuieve View Post

Can you sew a baseball cap into the straps?

Seems like Sony designed a car of the future, everything inside is touchscreen, voice recognition, massage, leather and 3d gesture control...

then there's an issue of missing engine. Sony's solution: sorry we didn't have time to r&d the engine issue... here's a pair of horses and a harness. They should pull your car where you need them. Oh wait, the harness doesn't fit the car? Well, uhhh... here's a stack of newspapers, a dead cat and some duct tape, McGyver something out... *runs away*

Oh, it's not that bad. The device is fairly heavy and forward-unbalanced, which is a consequence of the design that I don't think could be resolved. The straps work, but getting them right is hard, and the manual isn't very helpful in terms of advice. I also suspect Sony would have tried a 3rd strap over the head, but I'm not sure if that would work. It's certainly possible to tie a strap around the headphone "arms" and give that a try.

I think the main issue is, again, adjustments are counter intuitive. I first had the straps very tight, and thing jammed against my face. When I started loosening it, I began getting better results.

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post #273 of 3382 Old 11-11-2011, 11:08 AM
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Here is some ways to start training......

All you scrawny necked nerds better get in shape.

Conan stop sulking! Somebody is starving in Africa........
No no I was just kidding. I can fully understand your anger.
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post #274 of 3382 Old 11-11-2011, 11:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edo1946 View Post

Likewise I can get 100% clarity but it is easy to lose if the unit shifts even a little. I also found using my old glasses with a larger lens helped a lot. A bigger sweet spot I guess.

Just catching up with this thread. I had two units arrive at home but im a few thohsand miles away.. .. Well I managed to slip into a sony store in seattle and try one.

One unit was not getting a source and had no blinkers.. I put it on and with the store spots all I could see was glare.. Eek.. The guy put harry potter on and I held my hand up to block out light. Instant emersion of clarity and 3d.. I was very impressed. On the other hmd they had gt5 running. The track didnt look too 3d but the onscreen dash looked great. After the visit im now even more excited to get home and play..
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post #275 of 3382 Old 11-11-2011, 11:45 AM
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Originally Posted by EatingPie View Post

If you want Dragon or Monsters on Blu-ray, you have to get them off ebay since they only came as tie-ins with certain TVs.


-Pie

You DO realise these are both available at Best Buy right?


Max
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post #276 of 3382 Old 11-11-2011, 01:01 PM
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Originally Posted by djbluemax1 View Post

You DO realise these are both available at Best Buy right?


Max

Nope, I did not realize that! Sure enough, they have 'em. Good info!

Monsters vs. Aliens

How to Train Your Dragon.

I thought $39.99 was pricey, but what the hell, HTTYD is $79.99 on Amazon! Sheesh. Back to ebay I guess...

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post #277 of 3382 Old 11-11-2011, 01:06 PM
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For those that cart wait till the new year, there's 3 Sony hmz-t1 on eBay, kinda expensive though.....

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=...item27c02028a6
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post #278 of 3382 Old 11-11-2011, 01:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EatingPie View Post

Nope, I did not realize that! Sure enough, they have 'em. Good info!

Monsters vs. Aliens

How to Train Your Dragon.

I thought $39.99 was pricey, but what the hell, HTTYD is $79.99 on Amazon! Sheesh. Back to ebay I guess...

-Pie

Yeah, I keep track of 3D releases and get them the week of release because the prices don't seem to go down from there unlike regular BD's.

Both of those were $2x.xx the week of release, the same week Megamind 3D was released, all as BB exclusives, like the Harry Potter exclusive 3D BB release today, which reminds me... gotta go.


Max
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post #279 of 3382 Old 11-11-2011, 01:48 PM
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How about power supply? I had a possibility to test these glasses at Dixiexpo in Finland. The unit was a japanese model and in the label was 120V 50/60Hz. However the salesman put it into european 230V power outlet and it worked fine! So, could it be possible all units have a universal autoadjustable power supply despite of markings? Anybody knows?

Thanks for help,

JJ
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post #280 of 3382 Old 11-11-2011, 02:02 PM
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Originally Posted by mauricef View Post

Is anyone else noticing some motion judder with 3D 24Hz material? I tested with the PS3 and many different movies and it is present in all. When I play 2D source material I do not see the issue.

Please say it aint so... Im very sensitive to all kinds of judder and this would be such a huge disappointment
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post #281 of 3382 Old 11-11-2011, 02:06 PM
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Sony Canada has them in stock again, but of course they won't ship them for whatever reason. I put another order in and it says it should ship the 15th, while my preorder from October is not supposed to ship until the 25th. LOL

Such incompetent morons. I bet that the order I placed today will arrive before my first order. Anywho, if someone is nice to me I may sell the second one for the price I paid (maybe a little more for handling).
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post #282 of 3382 Old 11-11-2011, 02:28 PM
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Originally Posted by charles m View Post

Please say it aint so... Im very sensitive to all kinds of judder and this would be such a huge disappointment

This is a totally serious question here...

I did not enable 24p output, but watched Tron just fine. No judder issue at all. Now, I'm used to 30hz content because of my CRT TV, but I'm wondering why you'd be concerned about going into 24p mode if the non-24p mode works fine and has no judder.

OTOH, I believe the PS3 does 3D by actually doing 1080i/30 rather than 1080p/24, so it may be moot for me anyway.

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post #283 of 3382 Old 11-11-2011, 02:45 PM
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So far, I am not having a pleasant experience with these. I'll update as I experience more. I've worn them for about an hour now and wanted to take them off before that.

As with many folk, I can't seem to get the adjustments right, so I will keep trying.

My first impression was of blurred edges and a sharp center. Holding the unit manually and pressing towards my eyes a little, I can get a display that is sharp all over. So I guess there's nothing wrong with the optics.

I found a setting which worked fairly consistently and was mostly clear and tested some games on xbox 360 and ps3. So far no movies, yet.

I played a little Forza 4 and it looks pleasant, but sad to see their poor framerate blur/fail is still present on replays, though perhaps not as obvious as with my Optoma HD66 projector. I wondered if the fast response time of these would help that particular game's problem.

Set the screen on Cinema which is pleasantly warm without being overly red or yellow. After I set sound on Cinema (compared to Standard) the soundscape is very nice, with obvious spatial references and a very balanced, even slightly warm tone. Pleasant. Not a great game to test sound or music on, though.

Played a little Half-Life 2 and it looks nicer than on my projector. I think the large contrast ratio helps. Dark parts look better than on the projector.

Went to ps3 to try some 3d, played a little Wipeout and noticed no 3d.

Played GT5, no 3d.

Went out of the game and set screen size to 10 like everyone says, went back to the game, turned on 3d, left the defaults. Looks okay, never seen this game in 3d before. Played on the new Spa Francorchamps or whatever it's called, the scenery is really beautiful. Looks better than my projector.

Exited game and set screen size to 150", went back to game and tried 3d. Seems more '3d-ish' now.

Not too sure about 3d, will have to tweak and rent a 3d blu ray.

Have never used consumer 3d before, so this is all new.

I tend to play games sitting at the edge of a chair, controller between my legs to keep it stable. With the projector, I have to look up. With these glasses, I can look down and play. My driving was very stable, I was surprised that my feedback cues seemed easier to follow in certain ways.

But anyways, the sweet spot for viewing seems very, very small. Moving my head from looking down, I could lose the spot. I also feel like the screen is too big for the viewing space... can't get my eyes close enough, and the bottom sometimes is hard to see.

A strange thing happens where at first you think you should turn your head to see something in another part of the screen. So the cue that you're looking at a big screen is correct-- your brain tends to assume this, as if you're sitting in front of a big screen, but when you move your head, the whole screen moves. You learn to move only your eyes.

But as I said, it's hard to keep the whole screen sharp, and looking to a corner may reveal a blur. Holding my hand to the unit and pushing it toward my eyes in different ways can make any part of the screen be in focus, but keeping the whole thing in focus... you tend to sit rather still, so as not to lose focus.

My bed is near all my tech junk so I'll try laying down with it.

But so far I don't like it.

I'll try some other stuff later and update.
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post #284 of 3382 Old 11-11-2011, 02:56 PM
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Originally Posted by belovedconsole View Post

(snip)
But so far I don't like it.

I'll try some other stuff later and update.

Give it some time. I was in the same boat as you, and others. I was actually convinced I was going to return it within an hour of trying it. The next day I was loving it.
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post #285 of 3382 Old 11-11-2011, 03:09 PM
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Just curious about how much are you guys paying for yours? In Japan its 59,800 yen
Thats about $700 but I heard some in the US are paying $800?

Sadly I can't get one and on auctions here they are going for over $1,000

3D items I own:

Sony 46" LX900 active 3D set

Sony HMZ-T3 (Cushion pads and light blocker mod)

LG LW6500 passive 3D set

PS3 & PS4

Sony BDP-S570 BD3D player

JVC-GS-TD1 (with Cyclopital base extender)

Fujifilm W3

Sony Alpha 55 (for 3D panoramic photos)

Quadcopter + Zenmuse and GoPro Hero 3 (Filming...

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post #286 of 3382 Old 11-11-2011, 03:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m. zillch View Post


Have you tried looking at a paused image, with good detail all the way out to the edges, and while viewing this test pattern forcibly push and pull the the visor alternatively closer to and farther from your eyes?

With binoculars, which I am more familiar with, this concept of the focus distance to the eye surface is called "eye relief". There may be a very shallow window where in order to achieve proper focus the distance has to be held precisely, to the millimeter, away from the eyes with this Sony product.

Another possibility is that the focal plane which the optics project is not really a flat plane, at all, but rather a curved bowl shaped distance. The give away to that would be that there is a precise distance which will have the center in precise focus, at the expense of the edges, or a slightly different distance which will achieve corner sharpness at the expense of precise center field focus.

Please try this out and let us know, thanks.

I tried moving the lens closer to my eyes and it does seem to give a bigger sweet spot. I have switched to the thinnest forehead pad, have the MHD just touching my nose and keep it moderately loose. So far so good. It stayed in focus for an hour or two while playing socom on the ps3. That's a first.
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post #287 of 3382 Old 11-11-2011, 03:15 PM
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For those that have the Panasonic Blu-ray 3D demonstration disc. The "Coral Wonderland" segment located in the 'Fun Contents' section of the menu is a Full HD 3D sample that was recorded in native 720P. All I can say is that I've never experienced the 3D quality of being underwater, short of being there more than with this Sony HMD. My 65" Panasonic Viera series VT25 3D set doesn't reveal the total detail that this little headset does. I now see small plankton floating in the water which makes the water depth and variable liquid denseness into the distance phenomenal! The tropical fish, both in schools and going in and out of the coral crevices are now seen with total realistic immersion. I never had that experience with the VT25. It makes me want to take a breath of air it looks so real. All 3D segments on the demonstration disc, either authored in 1080P or 720P have noticeable quality improvement.


AVATAR on Blu-ray 3D has also improved. Depth in the theater was not as good or on my 65" VT25 Plasma.

The HMD is definitely a keeper.

Paul
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post #288 of 3382 Old 11-11-2011, 03:30 PM
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Originally Posted by stracenska View Post

Give it some time. I was in the same boat as you, and others. I was actually convinced I was going to return it within an hour of trying it. The next day I was loving it.

Thank you, I will def. take this to heart... I don't want to send these back... the display is so gorgeous, whenever I do get it right...
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post #289 of 3382 Old 11-11-2011, 03:30 PM
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Originally Posted by conan48 View Post

Such incompetent morons. I bet that the order I placed today will arrive before my first order. Anywho, if someone is nice to me I may sell the second one for the price I paid (maybe a little more for handling).

sell it to me.. I trusted AVS was going to get them quick, but should have known Sony was going to be short on these and probably stiff the dealers.
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post #290 of 3382 Old 11-11-2011, 03:33 PM
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Have you tried looking at a paused image, with good detail all the way out to the edges, and while viewing this test pattern forcibly push and pull the the visor alternatively closer to and farther from your eyes?

I did this on the menu screen for GT5, which goes all the way to all the borders. I was able to hold the HMZ so that everything was crystal clear. But that sweet spot seems quite small, and will take some adjustments to seat my head properly.

That said, I found very helpful the two buttons on the side band top, towards the front of the unit. There is one on each side, and this controls the length of the band coming from the front. So this is a 3rd adjustment (actually 3 and 4, since each side can be done individually) in addition to the 'base of the head/top of the neck' adjuster, and the upper one.
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post #291 of 3382 Old 11-11-2011, 03:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EatingPie View Post

This is a totally serious question here...

I did not enable 24p output, but watched Tron just fine. No judder issue at all. Now, I'm used to 30hz content because of my CRT TV, but I'm wondering why you'd be concerned about going into 24p mode if the non-24p mode works fine and has no judder.

OTOH, I believe the PS3 does 3D by actually doing 1080i/30 rather than 1080p/24, so it may be moot for me anyway.

It's not possible to avoid judder at 60Hz. 24 into 60 simply doesn't fit.

What I'm hoping is that the HMZ-T1 runs at 48Hz with film, and the judder mentioned here is simply due to 24p not being enough for smooth motion (a problem with the source, not the display) which is likely to be more apparent due to the lack of display-induced motion blur from the OLED panels, rather than the HMD not scanning at a multiple of 24.

24p judder I can tolerate (though I now prefer to use my HX900's motionflow, as that smooths it out without making things look sped-up) but 3:2 pulldown judder I cannot.


I'm not sure if that would be a deal-killer for me or not. I'm still very interested in the HMZ-T1 just as a gaming device, but it would probably rule it out as something I'd enjoy watching film on if that were the case.

HTPC users could try using ReClock to play back 24p at 50Hz which would be judder-free, but I really hope that it doesn't come to that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bravia3D View Post

Just curious about how much are you guys paying for yours? In Japan its 59,800 yen
Thats about $700 but I heard some in the US are paying $800?

Sadly I can't get one and on auctions here they are going for over $1,000

Don't feel too bad about it, people in the UK are paying $1300 for them at retail and don't even have a date for when they're due for release.
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post #292 of 3382 Old 11-11-2011, 03:54 PM
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Thats insane, here in Japan we pay the 59,800 yen then have to wait till Jan or beyond. Some stores say Feb or even March

3D items I own:

Sony 46" LX900 active 3D set

Sony HMZ-T3 (Cushion pads and light blocker mod)

LG LW6500 passive 3D set

PS3 & PS4

Sony BDP-S570 BD3D player

JVC-GS-TD1 (with Cyclopital base extender)

Fujifilm W3

Sony Alpha 55 (for 3D panoramic photos)

Quadcopter + Zenmuse and GoPro Hero 3 (Filming...

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post #293 of 3382 Old 11-11-2011, 03:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

sell it to me.. I trusted AVS was going to get them quick, but should have known Sony was going to be short on these and probably stiff the dealers.

Jason, I'll PM you if I get the second one (I should as they are in stock but Sony is waiting for the global launch of the 25th. LOL)

I even talked to the Sony store guy in Newmarket (testing ground/headquarters) for Sony Canada and even he said he hasn't seen something this stupid before from Sony Canada. "I only work here, and don't make these decisions" was what he said. I sent Sony management letting them know that they must have not got the memo telling them the global release date was moved up a few weeks

I got like 20 Blurays to watch now. Some Imax Arabia thing, Conan, Harry Potter, Meet the Robinsons, some IMAX Sea rex movie, another IMAX flying monsters movie, Toy Story Trilogy, Some Indian Horror movie which is their highest grossing 3D horror movie LOL, etc, etc.
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post #294 of 3382 Old 11-11-2011, 04:01 PM
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I'd buy one off some body if the price was right!

3D items I own:

Sony 46" LX900 active 3D set

Sony HMZ-T3 (Cushion pads and light blocker mod)

LG LW6500 passive 3D set

PS3 & PS4

Sony BDP-S570 BD3D player

JVC-GS-TD1 (with Cyclopital base extender)

Fujifilm W3

Sony Alpha 55 (for 3D panoramic photos)

Quadcopter + Zenmuse and GoPro Hero 3 (Filming...

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post #295 of 3382 Old 11-11-2011, 04:30 PM
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Hey guys, thought I'd throw my impressions out there as well.

So far, between today and yesterday, I've put six hours (yes, seriously) into trying to get the fit/sweetspot problem fixed. Here's the conclusion I came to…it all depends on facial structure. If I forget about the headstraps and moved the HMD around my face manually, I can find a spot where everything is in focus. Unfortunately, that "spot" is when I'm crushing my nose as far as the cartilage will let me.

I'm a big guy-- six-foot-seven, 240. Unfortunately, no amount of finagling will get it to work for me. It's not a lack of trying. I don't think there was anything wrong with the optics, either. I think my face, and especially my nose (not overly large, just proportionate), is just too large for the device. This is one of those things that will work for some and not for others.

I found a point of compromise-- trading an edge-blurred image for comfort. In my mind, I rationalized this balance for a few hours until I got a headache from the pad pressing into my forehead. I was also wrestling with the visible pixel grid. This was very evident when I was playing Uncharted 3. There's a point where the enemies you're trying to shoot are very far into the distance. They were so small, they were difficult to separate from their surroundings on the HMD. Overall, I wasn't blown away by the picture quality, but then again, I'm spoiled with a 9G Kuro, so I don't know if my viewpoint is objective anymore.

In the end, it's going back. I really, really wanted to like it. I almost tried forcing myself to like it. Unfortunately, I like the idea more than the reality. For some, it may be the perfect solution, but for me, stacking up the price tag with the laundry list of compromises just doesn't work. I'd much rather save up for a great 3D projector.

Hopefully, they'll make some design changes for v2 and I'll jump on board then. This technology is on the ascendancy, so it'll only get better with time.
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post #296 of 3382 Old 11-11-2011, 04:51 PM
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A few more observations:

This thing is like headphones for the eyes. By that I mean I finds details that I never noticed in the movies I've watched.

For me, moving the sliders out improves the focus of the edges at the expense of the center. Moving toward the center improves center focus but the edges are now blurred. There is a spot that is acceptable across the screen but I better not move my head to much. If I brace the unit with my hand I can get extremely good focus.

The unit is extremely bright. This is a nice change from the often dim 3D found when wearing 3D glasses.

I connected the unit to my iPad. This is nice way to watch movies in a remote location.
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post #297 of 3382 Old 11-11-2011, 06:11 PM
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Can the brightness be adjusted/turned down if its too intense on some games/videos?
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post #298 of 3382 Old 11-11-2011, 06:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by conan48 View Post

I got like 20 Blurays to watch now. Some Imax Arabia thing, Conan, Harry Potter, Meet the Robinsons, some IMAX Sea rex movie, another IMAX flying monsters movie, Toy Story Trilogy, Some Indian Horror movie which is their highest grossing 3D horror movie LOL, etc, etc.

That "Indian Horror movie which is their highest grossing 3D horror movie" I've only seen in Anaglyph.

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post #299 of 3382 Old 11-11-2011, 06:30 PM
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did any one tried it with SBS,OVER&UNDER MKV's through Steroscopic player ?
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post #300 of 3382 Old 11-11-2011, 07:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evnow View Post

That "Indian Horror movie which is their highest grossing 3D horror movie" I've only seen in Anaglyph.

Crap your right. I assumed because it was a bluray .iso that it wold be frame packed 3d. DELETED.

Still have 19 to go

Quick question. How would you guys compare the pixel grid structure to scan lines that are visible with Passive 3D TV's? Even though I can see the scan lines, I still prefer the image with passive because of the lack of ghosting and brightness. Is it better or worse then a passive (or should I say, what is more noticeable, or annoying)
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