Sony HMZ-T1 HMD Owner's dedicated thread - Page 40 - AVS Forum
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post #1171 of 3382 Old 12-01-2011, 11:06 AM
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Hey everyone, I just called ABT Electronics in Glenview, IL and they said they had 2 units which would arrive in 7-8 days if ordered now. They also said if they got more orders it would take about two weeks to get them out. Just google ABT electronic's website. Hope this helps.

On a side note, does anyone know the best video and audio settings for movies and tv? Also, anyone else's hmz-t1 lenses getting smudges on them every time you put them on and if so how to clean the lenses? Thanks.
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post #1172 of 3382 Old 12-01-2011, 11:49 AM
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Nothing delivered to Harrods today for those that pre-ordered-now they say they are not sure whether they will receive them tomorrow or next week.
Really getting a bit sick of the attitudes of the staff in there! I bet they don't treat the Harrods millionaire customers the way they speak to me!
They've had £800 of my money for over a month, think I'm entitled to be kept up to date on the delivery situation by them!!!
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post #1173 of 3382 Old 12-01-2011, 12:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snorefingers View Post

So what settings is everyone using with their T1s? Cinema mode is everyones favorite I take it?

Any tips on how to best adjust the straps? Some people mentioned starting with the bottom one iirc.

I've just stuck with Vivid, but so far its because I've used it to watch sports and sports PS3 games.

going to try out helcik's settings when I get home.

also, very happy to see helcik impressions on Skyrim in 2D. I've read GREAT things about it in 3D, but I don't have a powerful PC/Laptop. So I might get the PS3 version.

I've watched World Cup 2010 3D, there is a scene where the Brazilian players are right in front of the camera celebrating and wow, it just look amazing.

Also, is there a display setting that represents "color"? Maybe it is phrased differently. I'm no expert on these types of terms.
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post #1174 of 3382 Old 12-01-2011, 01:21 PM
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Hey guys, just an update. The first 6 Comfort 3 pads are being shipped out! And today we are working on the second batch, things are moving a bit faster than we thought.

The longest part of making these is tracing, cutting and ironing the fabric. But things are going good!

3D items I own:

Sony 46" LX900 active 3D set

Sony HMZ-T3 (Cushion pads and light blocker mod)

LG LW6500 passive 3D set

PS3 & PS4

Sony BDP-S570 BD3D player

JVC-GS-TD1 (with Cyclopital base extender)

Fujifilm W3

Sony Alpha 55 (for 3D panoramic photos)

Quadcopter + Zenmuse and GoPro Hero 3 (Filming...


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post #1175 of 3382 Old 12-01-2011, 02:59 PM
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Do/Have any current owners tried wearing a beanie to reduce pressure? If so, what are your experiences with this...
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post #1176 of 3382 Old 12-01-2011, 03:42 PM
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Here's another idea:

HMZ comfort problems start to develop from pressure to the forehead and bridge of the nose.

Another way to eradicate the problem would be to make a thin sheet of material stiff in support that could cover the areas involved.

If the weight is distributed across the face there would be no high-pressure points in the facial area.

Wonder if someone could develop something similar to a nose guard but in a lite shape-conforming material that would be easy to wear and fit the HMD in key areas for long periods of time.

The pictures below address the idea but are way too bulky. Maybe a firm plastic Halloween-type mask material?

Mueller nose guard


Bangerz Nose Guard


Paul


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post #1177 of 3382 Old 12-01-2011, 03:51 PM
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That's actually not a bad idea.
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post #1178 of 3382 Old 12-01-2011, 04:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bravia3D View Post

Hey guys, just an update. The first 6 Comfort 3 pads are being shipped out! And today we are working on the second batch, things are moving a bit faster than we thought.

The longest part of making these is tracing, cutting and ironing the fabric. But things are going good!

Keep them coming! Thanks for your contribution to the community
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post #1179 of 3382 Old 12-01-2011, 04:38 PM
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Just got off the phone with the Sony store in Denver, store details below, and they have about 5-6 HMZs in stock. Just put a CC down on two, one for me and since I will be driving 1,000 miles round trip to pick them up from the store I will be putting one up on ebay to try and recoup some gas money estimated at ($125). Got tired of waiting for a non-guaranteed Jan 15th delivery preorder date. If anyone is interested in my second unit I will post pack with the link on Monday 12/5.

Cherry Creek Shopping Center
3000 East First Avenue, Denver, CO 80206
Map & Driving Directions

303-322-7669
Store Hours:
Mon-Sat 10AM-9PM
Sun 11AM-6PM
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post #1180 of 3382 Old 12-01-2011, 04:41 PM
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Originally Posted by hittnababy View Post

I will be driving 1,000 miles round trip to pick them up from the store

Wow. That's pretty extreme to get a unit.
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post #1181 of 3382 Old 12-01-2011, 04:47 PM
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The set backs of living in a ski town in the middle of Wyoming. Plus Im making a weekend trip to Denver out of it. Could use a mini vacation been working as hard as Bravia3D and his wife lately.
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post #1182 of 3382 Old 12-01-2011, 04:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul H View Post

Here's another idea:

HMZ comfort problems start to develop from pressure to the forehead and bridge of the nose.

Another way to eradicate the problem would be to make a thin sheet of material stiff in support that could cover the areas involved.

If the weight is distributed across the face there would be no high-pressure points in the facial area.

Wonder if someone could develop something similar to a nose guard but in a lite shape-conforming material that would be easy to wear and fit the HMD in key areas for long periods of time.

The pictures below address the idea but are way too bulky. Maybe a firm plastic Halloween-type mask material?

Mueller nose guard


Bangerz Nose Guard


Paul

Haha, makes me wonder if Sony has Jason Voorhees as director of product testing (If you said "who?", Google the name and you'll know what I mean)
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post #1183 of 3382 Old 12-01-2011, 04:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hittnababy View Post

Just got off the phone with the Sony store in Denver, store details below, and they have about 5-6 HMZs in stock. Just put a CC down on two

I'd do it also.. I was lucky to get two in the first batch when thy came out. And sadly one has just been sat in it's box waiting to be taken to england where it'll get sold. I always take some electronics back to sell as it's so much cheaper here in the US.


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post #1184 of 3382 Old 12-01-2011, 05:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Blumenkind View Post

I have as well the AMD 5870 and 3D on my PC works with most of the Games using the TriDef 5.0 Software.

You can download and test for 14 days before you need to enter the license key.

blumen i didn't know this if you goto the tridef page and run the auto checker and it reports back that you infact have a compatible radeon hd/3d card tridef gives you 50% off and the community profiles are even there until the tridef team pushes it so i went ahead and just bought tridef driver since it was 50% off lol..

trackir5 check, tridef drivers/player check. skyrim pc check lol logitech g27 wheel check. ps3 check. motostorm apoc, ratchet and clank 4, batman, uncharted 3, killzone 3 check, resistence 3 doomsday bundle.. check.. .. tron legacy 3d and avatar bluray check.. (ton of unknown supported steam games check) lol briiing it on geebus i can't wait till monday... oh yeah and penthousedotcom for 3d check! hahah... blag zelda skyward sword bundle check... hdmi for wii no check ?

this is gonna be one damn fun christmas..

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post #1185 of 3382 Old 12-01-2011, 05:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSeymours View Post

. blag zelda skyward sword bundle check... hdmi for wii no check ?

Maybe an amp that has composite in HDMI OUt?

For example something like This


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post #1186 of 3382 Old 12-01-2011, 06:11 PM
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Originally Posted by "m. zillch View Post


Don't let descriptive words like "Pro version" or "3D ready" fool you. Unless a vendor specifically mentions their's can deal with two dissimilar EDID signals and provide a different and optimal signal for both, and will do so simultaneously, assume that it won't.

I believe the question was how to hook up 2 hmz-t1s since the headunit won't passthru when the hmz-t1 is showing a signal. I don't see why the "pro 3d" versions would barf in this case unless they don't work with 3d at all.

If you want to get complicated, it is not going to work. As you said, the monoprice splitters don't do any format conversion. But they do allow multiple edids at least in mono as I have run 720p and 1080p projectors simultaneously (at 720p) from it. I believe the manual said something about it using one of the edids as the edid. I haven't noticed any behavioral differences with the projectors tho, but there is a radiance upstream and its output rates are being forced. This version of the splitter did have an issue running to a 720p dlp and a hdfury v1+rgb to analog converter, but that's a bit of complexity anyway.
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post #1187 of 3382 Old 12-01-2011, 06:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Afrikan View Post

I've just stuck with Vivid, but so far its because I've used it to watch sports and sports PS3 games.

going to try out helcik's settings when I get home.

also, very happy to see helcik impressions on Skyrim in 2D. I've read GREAT things about it in 3D, but I don't have a powerful PC/Laptop. So I might get the PS3 version.

I've watched World Cup 2010 3D, there is a scene where the Brazilian players are right in front of the camera celebrating and wow, it just look amazing.

Also, is there a display setting that represents "color"? Maybe it is phrased differently. I'm no expert on these types of terms.

I keep everything on "flat" so the electronics don't 'interfere' at all with the signal. I want to see it closest to reference. Because of the high contrast ratio, I never have to adjust anything, unlike my projector which needs brightness adjustment depending on media. I don't use cinema, because I don't want to impart false 'warmth'-- I want to see it the way the creators intended. I don't know how close the HMZ is to reference-- we've seen no measurements of such so far, but it looks fantastic, and with such deep blacks the dynamic range is such that it can accomodate all sorts of material with no adjustments. Once you find your preferred viewing settings, you may find you don't change it much, if at all.
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post #1188 of 3382 Old 12-01-2011, 08:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkV View Post

I believe the question was how to hook up 2 hmz-t1s since the headunit won't passthru when the hmz-t1 is showing a signal. I don't see why the "pro 3d" versions would barf in this case unless they don't work with 3d at all.

If you want to get complicated, it is not going to work. As you said, the monoprice splitters don't do any format conversion. But they do allow multiple edids at least in mono as I have run 720p and 1080p projectors simultaneously (at 720p) from it. I believe the manual said something about it using one of the edids as the edid. I haven't noticed any behavioral differences with the projectors tho, but there is a radiance upstream and its output rates are being forced. This version of the splitter did have an issue running to a 720p dlp and a hdfury v1+rgb to analog converter, but that's a bit of complexity anyway.

Mark, Are you disputing they work. Because I bought one prior to my 2 Hmd's arriving. so I can honestly tell you they don't work. They look like a nice bit of kit, well made and all. But for anyone wanting to split the signal to two HMD's I want to be clear that the monoprice mp-sp08 with 3d support doesn't work. Just so people don't waste their time.


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post #1189 of 3382 Old 12-01-2011, 08:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EastyUK View Post

Maybe an amp that has composite in HDMI OUt?

For example something like This

hey easty yeah that'd work, i found alternatives.. but ehh i don't even really care to spend even $35 right now. wich i found an adapter on amazon for. it just piggybacks onto back of wii with hdmi output. but ehhh i might just have to play the new zelda on good ol tv for now LOL.. actually on second thought screw the tv lol ill just have to deal with playing zelda on one of my planar projectors



Pss actually if zelda plays 1:1with remote ill get that adapter lol swibg sword

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post #1190 of 3382 Old 12-01-2011, 11:11 PM
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are all silly for paying 800 for this and if ur paying more then ur just stupid as hell!!!!! unless u make 100k a year then fk it buy us all one!

We live in the future, we are all stupid. Someday you will join us.

Also, is it just me or is Sony a horrifically mismanaged company? They've got a lot of smart people doing research and a bunch of incompetent *******s doing everything else. I'd bet money that you could randomly select anyone who has participated in this thread, give them a six pack (per day) and the authority to command every aspect of the Sony empire and by this time next year the talking heads would be asking the world how Sony supplanted Apple as the worlds leading purveyor of high margin shiny goods.
I know I could do it.
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post #1191 of 3382 Old 12-02-2011, 01:36 AM
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Well I live in UK and just got my unit ordered from Sony Direct on 8th November. I seem to be the exception cos I am very happy with my unit. Sweet spot perfect,3d perfect and sound acceptable. Ok comfort is not 100% but my wife is running up a solution as I type. Only puzzle is my MLB.TV app on PS3 video is great but no sound. Unit reports unsupported sound format. Is no big deal as can watch from Wii or Ipad but got me wondering? Sound is fine on everything else on PS3.
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post #1192 of 3382 Old 12-02-2011, 04:43 AM
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Originally Posted by treewizard100 View Post

Well I live in UK and just got my unit ordered from Sony Direct on 8th November. I seem to be the exception cos I am very happy with my unit. Sweet spot perfect,3d perfect and sound acceptable. Ok comfort is not 100% but my wife is running up a solution as I type. Only puzzle is my MLB.TV app on PS3 video is great but no sound. Unit reports unsupported sound format. Is no big deal as can watch from Wii or Ipad but got me wondering? Sound is fine on everything else on PS3.

I concur - set it up with a bit of trepidation having read about it for so long but worked straight out of the box (had to restart the PS3 for 3D to kick in). V. impressed with the 3D and the depth - only played scenes from TT3D:Closer to the Edge so far but all looks great.
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post #1193 of 3382 Old 12-02-2011, 06:49 AM
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Well that was disappointing. My HMZ-T1 turned up today and I've spent maybe 70-80 minutes with it so far.

It's going back.

Regardless of how anything else is with it, I basically have to crush my nose to get the image centred and in focus. Even if it were comfortable like that (it isn't, of course) I can't get it tight enough with the straps to hold in place properly like that, despite my forehead and nose being bright red after that much use, and having a splitting headache now.


Despite the fact that it's focused at a distance of 60ft, the image did not feel like that at all for me. It's just like I was up close (maybe 5-6ft away) to a relatively small screen. So the image did improve when I put my glasses on (I only need a minor correction for distance viewing so I often don't) but it didn't feel that far away.

I think it's probably the internal reflections that break the illusion. I was in a dark room, but there were two very obvious "rings" around the image in my vision at all times, and lines down the side of the OLED chip itself that were being lit up by the screen.

The image size was definitely smaller than I have with the distance I normally sit from my 46" HX900. I thought I was sitting back about 4-5ft, but I guess I must subconsciously be leaning forward and sitting more like 3ft from the screen. (60 degree FOV)

Any amount of ambient light destroys the picture, which is the opposite of the HX900. (I'm using it right now in bright daylight without any problems)

The optics seem poor. The image is full of chromatic aberrations (color fringing) and no matter how I hold the unit to my face, I cannot get either eye to have edge-to-edge focus.

As I shift the lenses in or out, different areas of the screen are in focus. With them centred, that allows most of the image to be in focus. As you move them either in or out, the focus shifts to the inside or outside edges of the image. Central was not optimal for me based on the test they have you use to set the distance though.


Black level seems good, but is worse than my HX900 with fade-to-black, as the HX900 is a local-dimming LCD that turns the backlight off. With mixed contrast scenes it's a bit of a toss-up really, the HX900 can show some blooming (a minor issue for me personally as it has less impact on the image than CRTs ever had with their floating black level) or internal reflections lighting up the image with the HMZ-T1. I think I probably prefer the HX900 here to be honest.

Definitely better than the HX900 in game mode though, which lowers it to around 3,000:1 contrast. (with white at 100 nits)


Gradation was very disappointing, with obvious banding in the image that is not present on my HX900 even with all the processing disabled. I would not say the HX900 is perfect (I have yet to find anything as good as a CRT in this regard) but the HMZ-T1 is a definite step down from it.

I don't really want to judge colour as I didn't spend too much time looking over material I'm familiar withCasino Royale is my "go-to" film for checking color reproduction as I'm really familiar with how that is supposed to look, but I was mostly checking out darker films like Tron and Fight Club, but it looked pretty good. No problems that were immediately obvious, which is a good thing.


Motion handling... it seemed good in that I did not notice any kind of blurring at all, but films were hard to watch. I didn't spend enough time looking at anything to see if the problem was simply 24p judder or 3:2 playback with a 24Hz input.

I used to be strongly against motion interpolation, but with the HX900 Sony managed to get the balance right between filmic movement so that things don't look sped-up, and smoothing things out so that panning doesn't judder. With the exception of complex panning scenes, it's mostly artifact free, and after a year of that, I don't think I can go back.



So how is 3D on it? Fantastic. I would not say it's 100% natural, but I think that's just the nature of how 3D is rendered today more than anything else. There's no crosstalk between the eyes, no dimming so the image is bright and sharp. (as sharp as the optics allow, anyway)

I had a quick run around Deus Ex: Human Revolution, Skyrim and DiRT 3 and it all looked fantastic.

After the first couple of weeks of owning my HX900, I never went back to using 3D, because 720p on a 1080p panel looks really ugly, and frankly there's a massive degradation in image quality when you switch to 3D and put the glasses on. With this, if it fit me and was comfortable I'd probably be running everything I could in 3D if I had the option.


Pixel structure is definitely visible, I was surprised at how low resolution 720p felt when playing games compared to 1080p on my LCD, even though they were both 1:1 mapped. (and all games I played scale the UI)

I also noticed a "shimmer" to the screens similar to what you see on matte antiglare LCD panels that I thought was a thing of the past.

There's also what I would call "crosstalk" on the displays, but I don't know if that's the correct term. I don't mean this in a 3D sense, but if you open up a folder with a list of items in them for example, you get black bands extending across the whole image where there's an item with text. This is also common on PDPs.
Similar to this:



Because it requires a dark room to work properly, and the optics are poor, I'd much rather have a projector than this in its current state. Personally I'm just going to stick with my HX900 and do without 3D for now.

This has left me very disheartened. As much as I want HMDs to become a reality, I'm not convinced they can fix all of these issues even if there is another revision next year, some of them seem like they may be fundamental issues with head-mounted displays in general.
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post #1194 of 3382 Old 12-02-2011, 08:18 AM
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I posted this review over on neogaf.com but I thought I would repost it here as well:

Just thought I would add another quick review since I have had mine for just over a week now.

I'll start with the good first. This is by far the best 3D I have ever seen and it's also the easiest on my eyes. I played uncharted for a good hour straight and it never bothered me or fatigued my eyes like the active 3d glasses always seem to. It was nice being able to stare at a bright, cross talk free image that wasn't flickering. I have a 125" projector at home that I sit about 14 feet away from and to me the screen seemed more like an 90" screen but it was still a pretty amazing effect. It really does seem like a massive screen and once you start watching something you forget about the size and the edges and its awesome. I also found it to be much lighter than I had expected and really wasn't all that uncomfortable to wear.

Now the bad stuff. Outside light has a huge impact on how good the image is. I was surprised that even in my bedroom with the blinds closed at night (with only a street light in front my house) I could still notice the light and had to wear the light blockers. Also, the blockers do fall out constantly any time you move or adjust the headset. Unfortunately the worst part of the device is the small viewing window where everything is clear. I wear glasses, which by themselves are no problem with the device, but I have a fairly bad astigmatism in my left eye and it seemed like no matter how I positioned it I just couldn't get the left and right screen clear at the same time. I am assuming this might be limited to me, but it really was disappointing that the viewing window is so small and precise.

So unfortunately this has led me to decide to send it back to sony or throw it up on eBay, but before I do I thought I would offer it to a fellow AVS'er first if anyone wants to buy it off me. I am in Canada and I would prefer to send it someone in North America if possible. Send me a PM if your interested.
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post #1195 of 3382 Old 12-02-2011, 08:57 AM
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@Chronoptimist, seantos
I felt the same when I first got my HMZ-T1. As a matter of fact, I was seriously considering returning the device after playing around with it for the first 3 days.

I would take full advantage of the 30 days return (if you're in the US) and give it a few more tries. Let it sit for a day or two before playing with it again. Playing around with it constantly feels like a frustrating and futile attempt when you're still working to find the right 'fit'.
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post #1196 of 3382 Old 12-02-2011, 09:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CloudVII View Post

@Chronoptimist, seantos
I felt the same when I first got my HMZ-T1. As a matter of fact, I was seriously considering returning the device after playing around with it for the first 3 days.

I would take full advantage of the 30 days return (if you're in the US) and give it a few more tries. Let it sit for a day or two before playing with it again. Playing around with it constantly feels like a frustrating and futile attempt when you're still working to find the right 'fit'.

Thanks, but the first thing I tried was removing the forehead pad, undoing the straps and just seeing what I needed to do to get the image in focus. The only way to do that was to have it pressing down hard on my nose.


I had a go calibrating it using my i1Pro, but stupidly let another application restart my PC without saving the data, so I don't have any charts to post.

In short: Vivid puts the HMZ-T1 into a wide gamut (oversaturated) mode, Standard puts it into a gamut that is fairly close to HD spec, and Cinema's gamut is closest to HD spec.

However the luminance for red in particular with Cinema mode is far lower than it should be, and with no color control, this can't be fixed.

Personally I prefer Standard to Cinema, but you're basically choosing between too much and too little color. (skintones in particular are either too pale or too saturated)

I forget the specific term, but the "black corrector" or whatever it was, was best set to +1 for the flattest gamma that is closest to 2.2

Raising it increases the gamma, but mostly by skewing the response near black rather than shifting the whole range.


Warm 1 was around 6500K for the lower % gray, increasing towards 7000K as you get to white.
Warm 2 was around 6000 (may have been 5500) increasing to 6500 if I recall correctly.

I would choose Warm 1, though I'd prefer manual individual control over the high/low points.


If you are using a HTPC with madVR for playback, try putting it into Vivid and using:
Code:
red,   Yxy,  99.7699, 0.6531, 0.3327
green, Yxy, 338.7406, 0.2919, 0.6403
blue,  Yxy,  41.1258, 0.1427, 0.0700
white, Yxy, 518.9876, 0.3016, 0.3299
For yCMS calibration, and setting gamma to 2.40.

This may not be completely accurate, but should be better than either Standard or Cinema. Normally I would have CalMAN set to take 30 readings for each point to ensure things are accurate, but because I had to reposition the HMZ-T1 each time I had it set to only take one reading, as I needed to take a lot of them to get it repositioned correctly after each change.



Shortly before packing it up (just as I was putting the calibration gear away) I had a couple of family members try it out to see what they thought, without me having told them anything about it yet.

Neither of them had any trouble with pressure on their nose to get things in focus (but they're not as discerning as I am, and were only looking at a clip from Tron rather than text from a PC for example) and both of them said that they thought it looked smaller than my TV, before I even got a chance to bring that up.

---

Oh, and I had a chance to look at it in a completely dark room now that the sun has gone down. That "up to 10,000:1 contrast" seems accurate. The black level is much higher than it appeared when there was still a little bit of light in the room. (blackout curtains aren't perfect)

With a similar calibration to my HX900, that would put it at 5,000:1 (100 nits white) which is not drastically better than the 3,000:1 it has in game mode. (and infinite in Cinema mode)
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post #1197 of 3382 Old 12-02-2011, 10:46 AM
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Originally Posted by treewizard100 View Post

Well I live in UK and just got my unit ordered from Sony Direct on 8th November. I seem to be the exception cos I am very happy with my unit. Sweet spot perfect,3d perfect and sound acceptable. Ok comfort is not 100% but my wife is running up a solution as I type. Only puzzle is my MLB.TV app on PS3 video is great but no sound. Unit reports unsupported sound format. Is no big deal as can watch from Wii or Ipad but got me wondering? Sound is fine on everything else on PS3.

well i ordered from sony shop 6 November in the uk havnt heard anything so i phoned my local sony shop in metro centre gateshead where i ordered the hmz-t1 from,and they said they had to email sony online to ask where the order is cause they have been shipping online orders but not shipping shop pre orders....
this just gets worse and worse.....
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post #1198 of 3382 Old 12-02-2011, 10:58 AM
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Sorry you are disappointed with your hmz, I would be happy to buy of you I'm in uk and can collect, willing to drive any distance

Regards

Anthony
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post #1199 of 3382 Old 12-02-2011, 11:02 AM
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Sorry you are disappointed with your hmz, I would be happy to buy of you I'm in uk and can collect, willing to drive any distance

Regards

Anthony

[quote=Chronoptimist;21289580]Well that was disappointing. My HMZ-T1 turned up today and I've spent maybe 70-80 minutes with it so far.

It's going back.
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post #1200 of 3382 Old 12-02-2011, 11:36 AM
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Got mine today, while I'll keep testing it a bit, it looks like the discomfort is a lil too much to handle for me. Picture is nice when it's not blurry but it looks like for me the cons outweigh the pros.
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