LG to show 84" Ultra Definition 4K 3D TV at CES 2012 - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 67 Old 12-28-2011, 09:38 PM - Thread Starter
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http://www.engadget.com/2011/12/28/l...inging-to-ces/

With 4x the resolution of 1920x1080p, this means that LG's passive 3D technology (which this TV will have) will be displaying at least 1080p to each eye, thus rendering moot for the near term the criticisms of "half resolution" passive 3D TVs vis-a-vis active shutter 3D.
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post #2 of 67 Old 12-28-2011, 11:55 PM
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The new criticism will be its price.
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post #3 of 67 Old 12-29-2011, 07:24 AM
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Good news. I want to see if Samsung will announce larger screens for their plasma sets. I have a 64D8000 and want to go larger and brighter for 3D. It's tempting to jump ship with announcements like this as 4K and passive 3D are on my list also.
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post #4 of 67 Old 12-29-2011, 07:33 AM
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Showing the set at CES and actually producing it are two different things.

Remember the 72" set that LG was supposed to have on the market in 2011?
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post #5 of 67 Old 12-29-2011, 07:36 AM
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Yeah, but will it have native DTS/passthrough support?

Sounds like it is LED edge lit
From the press release.
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LG's 3D UD TV boasts superb picture quality with 8 million pixels, four times the resolution clarity (3840x2160) of existing Full HD TV panels. Combined with LG's Slim and Narrow Bezel Design, the 3D UD TV provides the most convincing 3D viewing experience currently available outside of a movie theater. What's more, 3D Depth Control allows users to customize their viewing experience by controlling the 3D effect while 3D Sound Zooming provides users with 3D sound that rivals the output of all but the best home theater systems.


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post #6 of 67 Old 12-29-2011, 08:19 AM
 
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So LG calls a 4K display "Ultra High Definition." What would they call a display based on NHK's Super Hi Vison format, which has a resolution of 7,680 × 4,320?
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post #7 of 67 Old 12-29-2011, 08:43 AM
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4K definition is about building in for the future

until the broadcasters broadcast in 4K, it is moot.
they will eventually but when is another question

i think 5 years from now will be about the right time to think
about that 4Kx2K high definition
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post #8 of 67 Old 12-29-2011, 08:45 AM
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>7,680 × 4,320?

they also will have higher definition of 8Kx4K
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post #9 of 67 Old 12-29-2011, 10:27 AM
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Where can I watch coverage of the CES event with press conferences/announcements and stuff from Sony, Panasonic, Xbox, 4k tv, etc? I looked on g4tv.com and Spike.com but couldn't find anything.
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post #10 of 67 Old 12-29-2011, 10:33 AM
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Why couldn't the new storage for 4k or 2k movies be high capacity flash drives to be used on some new player?
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post #11 of 67 Old 12-29-2011, 11:31 AM
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A 4K Passive TV set would at least make me consider it for a purchase.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JLennerth View Post

Why couldn't the new storage for 4k or 2k movies be high capacity flash drives to be used on some new player?

Sony has alluded to using BD as a storage medium for 4K movies for their 4K projector. You can bet it will be some crippled consumer version - just another increase in the Luma signal and remain at 8bit color depth.
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post #13 of 67 Old 12-30-2011, 04:07 PM
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An 84" with 4x the resolution would be 4 each of 42" panels all butted together.

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post #14 of 67 Old 12-31-2011, 08:46 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by richard adams View Post

an 84" with 4x the resolution would be 4 each of 42" panels all butted together.

+1
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post #15 of 67 Old 01-01-2012, 02:36 PM
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Originally Posted by nickoakdl View Post

The new criticism will be its price.

For a while it will be. I am guessing $15K.

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post #16 of 67 Old 01-01-2012, 03:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LowellG View Post

For a while it will be. I am guessing $15K.

That could be too high of a guess, since the Sharp 80" TV street price is close to $4200, and 84" is only slightly bigger than 80"

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post #17 of 67 Old 01-01-2012, 06:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Adams View Post

That could be too high of a guess, since the Sharp 80" TV street price is close to $4200, and 84" is only slightly bigger than 80"

Yeah but the Sharp isn't a 4k display. I also think that if the LG is priced at or above $15,000 it will be over priced. A more realistic price range would be $10,000-$12,000. I guess we'll just have to wait until the CES and see if LG mentions a price on it.


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post #18 of 67 Old 01-01-2012, 06:59 PM
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Originally Posted by ohyeah32 View Post

Yeah but the Sharp isn't a 4k display. I also think that if the LG is priced at or above $15,000 it will be over priced. A more realistic price range would be $10,000-$12,000. I guess we'll just have to wait until the CES and see if LG mentions a price on it. Seth

Indeed 4K.

No video content is available for purchase in the consumer market at 4K.

We could display still frame pictures from cameras at 4K. That's a lot of money for an LCD picture frame at 84".

The 4K feature is expected to enhance the 3D passive resolution to put this forthcoming 84" LG 3D TV on par with the 82" Mitsubishi active 3D sets which already deliver full 3D resolution to each eye. Those 82" Mits TVs have a street price of about $1800. Where is the justification for the proposed huge price tag for the LG 84" ?

I'm not disagreeing, by the way. LG does mention the TV having a fancy audio system, and typically when this is listed, TVs tend to be overpriced when first introduced. It's an excuse to overcharge, but not justification.

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post #19 of 67 Old 01-01-2012, 11:54 PM
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Indeed 4K.

No video content is available for purchase in the consumer market at 4K.

We could display still frame pictures from cameras at 4K. That's a lot of money for an LCD picture frame at 84".

The 4K feature is expected to enhance the 3D passive resolution to put this forthcoming 84" LG 3D TV on par with the 82" Mitsubishi active 3D sets which already deliver full 3D resolution to each eye. Those 82" Mits TVs have a street price of about $1800. Where is the justification for the proposed huge price tag for the LG 84" ?

I'm not disagreeing, by the way. LG does mention the TV having a fancy audio system, and typically when this is listed, TVs tend to be overpriced when first introduced. It's an excuse to overcharge, but not justification.

This is very true that no content (other than like you said cameras) are available at 4k right now. And yes Mitsubishi does indeed have an 82" active 3D set with 1080p per eye that streets around $1800. But for one thing, the big Mits is a rear projection set with a larger footprint and it also requires a lamp. Another thing to note is that Mitsubishi still uses Wobulation (as far as I know) to achieve 1080p.

Manufacturing an 82" flat panel LED LCD TV, let alone a 4k capable one is a lot more expensive than manufacturing a rear projection DLP. This is the reason that many who want a super sized 3D TV, and don't want to break the bank, go with Mits. They offer mega bang for the buck!

I think a better comparison on price differences for large screen sets would be to compare Sharp's large flat panel TV's to LG's. Sharp is currently killing the competition by offering huge LED LCD TV's at affordable pricing.

Yes it will most likely be a lot of coin for the 84" LG. And while it's true that the 4k technology will bring passive 3D to the level of current active 3D TV's, for many (myself included) this is really great news. I want passive 3D, and I want a really large display, but I also would love to have full resolution per eye. This 84" LG brings all of that. I really hope that it's not too outrageously priced to actually buy. If It's priced anywhere near $10,000, I'm getting one!


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post #20 of 67 Old 01-02-2012, 03:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ohyeah32 View Post

This is very true that no content (other than like you said cameras) are available at 4k right now. And yes Mitsubishi does indeed have an 82" active 3D set with 1080p per eye that streets around $1800. But for one thing, the big Mits is a rear projection set with a larger footprint and it also requires a lamp. Another thing to note is that Mitsubishi still uses Wobulation (as far as I know) to achieve 1080p.

Manufacturing an 82" flat panel LED LCD TV, let alone a 4k capable one is a lot more expensive than manufacturing a rear projection DLP. This is the reason that many who want a super sized 3D TV, and don't want to break the bank, go with Mits. They offer mega bang for the buck!

I think a better comparison on price differences for large screen sets would be to compare Sharp's large flat panel TV's to LG's. Sharp is currently killing the competition by offering huge LED LCD TV's at affordable pricing.

Yes it will most likely be a lot of coin for the 84" LG. And while it's true that the 4k technology will bring passive 3D to the level of current active 3D TV's, for many (myself included) this is really great news. I want passive 3D, and I want a really large display, but I also would love to have full resolution per eye. This 84" LG brings all of that. I really hope that it's not too outrageously priced to actually buy. If It's priced anywhere near $10,000, I'm getting one!


Seth

I'd consider getting the Mits 82" or 92" today but am concerned about poor performance in a well lit room. Currently have the 5 year old Sony SXRD 70" TV (with updated light engine) 2D set for that room.

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post #21 of 67 Old 01-02-2012, 04:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Adams View Post

I'd consider getting the Mits 82" or 92" today but am concerned about poor performance in a well lit room. Currently have the 5 year old Sony SXRD 70" TV (with updated light engine) 2D set for that room.

Small world, as I am also currently using a Sony 70XBR2. It's a great TV, and has served me well for 5 years now, but the optical block issue is looming over me. No problems with that...yet, but it's only a matter of time. So for that reason I'm going to need a new TV soon. Also I am just ready to move away from rear projection sets and go with an LED LCD. I hope LG brings good news at CES.
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post #22 of 67 Old 01-02-2012, 07:32 PM
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Originally Posted by ohyeah32 View Post

Small world, as I am also currently using a Sony 70XBR2. It's a great TV, and has served me well for 5 years now, but the optical block issue is looming over me. No problems with that...yet, but it's only a matter of time. So for that reason I'm going to need a new TV soon. Also I am just ready to move away from rear projection sets and go with an LED LCD. I hope LG brings good news at CES.

Still I'd buy a mits 82 or 92 if it was about as bright as the Sony 70, and I'm not so sure the mits sets are that bright.

About optical block on XBR2 70" - Mine was covered at the tail end of a 5 year extended warranty. Although I could have done the swap myself, this was a $1500 repair at retail price covered by that warranty. It's a heat destruction issue. I think my optical block went out when the TV was on and there was a power outage, so that the fan could not cool down the innards correctly when the power was lost.

After the block repair, I now have the TV plugged into a battery backed up UPS. Wouldn't hurt to plug the set into a UPS if you happen to have one, and if power goes off shut the set off before the UPS battery runs down, to let the innards cool correctly.

As you know the fan normally runs for a few minutes after the power is turned off, but with the AC failed, there was no cooling and the optical block was cooked. The symptom looked like the following green smear from left to right across most of the picture. Where most of the test pattern is green, it should be grey. Also, Obama and the flag aren't quite right. The block just went bad suddenly.
LL
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post #23 of 67 Old 01-03-2012, 12:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Adams View Post

Still I'd buy a mits 82 or 92 if it was about as bright as the Sony 70, and I'm not so sure the mits sets are that bright.

About optical block on XBR2 70" - Mine was covered at the tail end of a 5 year extended warranty. Although I could have done the swap myself, this was a $1500 repair at retail price covered by that warranty. It's a heat destruction issue. I think my optical block went out when the TV was on and there was a power outage, so that the fan could not cool down the innards correctly when the power was lost.

After the block repair, I now have the TV plugged into a battery backed up UPS. Wouldn't hurt to plug the set into a UPS if you happen to have one, and if power goes off shut the set off before the UPS battery runs down, to let the innards cool correctly.

As you know the fan normally runs for a few minutes after the power is turned off, but with the AC failed, there was no cooling and the optical block was cooked. The symptom looked like the following green smear from left to right across most of the picture. Where most of the test pattern is green, it should be grey. Also, Obama and the flag aren't quite right. The block just went bad suddenly.

Yeah, probably the reason the 82" isn't quite as bright as most would like is because I believe it only uses a single lamp. And that's a lot of area for a single lamp. The 92" supposedly uses twin lamps, so brightness might be better.

You're right about the Sony 70XBR2, the images are bright. If it wasn't for the optical block issue, this set is awesome!

Re the UPS, I do have mine connected to one (an APC Smart UPS). But I know that sooner or later the optical block will go, even being connected to a UPS. I just hope that it hangs in there long enough for me to get that new TV.

This 84" LG would be my ultimate. And if priced within reach, and made available within the next 4-5 months, it will be my next TV. If not, then hopefully their 72" will be available.
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The 92" does not use twin lamps (I have one). Brightness is not really an issue as it is bright enough but the set has a real glare problem. In order to get a brighter picture they use a clear screen resulting in glare. I do not have a problem as I close the drapes for serious watching. At night of course you have the best picture.
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Indeed an 84" passive LCD would eliminate flicker, support inexpensive glasses, be full resolution and bright, reduce pixel lag 3D ghosting, while the 4K aspect adds future-proof longevity.

Still - since the 84" sounds like 4 each of 42" LCDs all butted together, which results in 4K resolution as well, and given LG's prior CES history to never actually sell the 72" shown at the prior CES, I wonder if the 84" is simply a trade show one of a kind demo, thrown together to draw attention to their booth, with no real product actually planned.

It's clear there would be some demand for this set at the right price. If they really intended to sell one, they'd have a price and shipment date.

Could they sell an 84" 4K which consisted of 4 each of 42" panels butted together? Manufacturing might be simpler.

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post #26 of 67 Old 01-03-2012, 11:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NSX1992 View Post

The 92" does not use twin lamps (I have one). Brightness is not really an issue as it is bright enough but the set has a real glare problem. In order to get a brighter picture they use a clear screen resulting in glare. I do not have a problem as I close the drapes for serious watching. At night of course you have the best picture.

The drapes I have in that room are all shear, and there's a lot of footage to cover. Today I'd be comparing the cost of the 92" mits plus the cost to dark drape the room plus 8 pairs of active glasses, to the cost of a hypothetical 84" passive LCD. I wonder if 3D needs a darkened room anyway, which would also apply to the 84".

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post #27 of 67 Old 01-03-2012, 12:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Adams View Post

Indeed an 84" passive LCD would eliminate flicker, support inexpensive glasses, be full resolution and bright, reduce pixel lag 3D ghosting, while the 4K aspect adds future-proof longevity.

Still - since the 84" sounds like 4 each of 42" LCDs all butted together, which results in 4K resolution as well, and given LG's prior CES history to never actually sell the 72" shown at the prior CES, I wonder if the 84" is simply a trade show one of a kind demo, thrown together to draw attention to their booth, with no real product actually planned.

It's clear there would be some demand for this set at the right price. If they really intended to sell one, they'd have a price and shipment date.

Could they sell an 84" 4K which consisted of 4 each of 42" panels butted together? Manufacturing might be simpler.

Yes, I totally agree. LG is notorious for showing really amazing large screen TV's at CES and then never releasing them. The 72" passive 3D LED that the company showed at IFA changed that and is now an actual production model that is available in Korea and now Hong Kong. But the question remains, will it be available in the US this year?

The 84" 4K set may only be a prototype and not an actual "production ready" display. Something to wow the attendees at CES, but nothing more.

If (and it's a big if) LG does announce at CES that the 84" is planned for a consumer release this year, hopefully they'll follow in the footsteps set by Sharp. Offer a large screen high quality TV that's priced fairly. If they follow this model I think that the 84" will sell very well here. If it's too overpriced it just won't sell, except to those few who want the absolute best and are willing to pay whatever the cost to own it.


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Quote:
Originally Posted by ohyeah32 View Post

Yes, I totally agree. LG is notorious for showing really amazing large screen TV's at CES and then never releasing them. The 72" passive 3D LED that the company showed at IFA changed that and is now an actual production model that is available in Korea and now Hong Kong. But the question remains, will it be available in the US this year?

The 84" 4K set may only be a prototype and not an actual "production ready" display. Something to wow the attendees at CES, but nothing more.

If (and it's a big if) LG does announce at CES that the 84" is planned for a consumer release this year, hopefully they'll follow in the footsteps set by Sharp. Offer a large screen high quality TV that's priced fairly. If they follow this model I think that the 84" will sell very well here. If it's too overpriced it just won't sell, except to those few who want the absolute best and are willing to pay whatever the cost to own it.


Seth

It's a UHDTV (8MP per frame), not an HDTV (2MP per frame) so it's price will be much higher then a comparably sized HDTV.

Toshiba is selling their 55" UHDTV in the UK for an MSRP of $11,500. It is also an Autosetercopic 3D display ( no glasses required).
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post #29 of 67 Old 01-03-2012, 03:03 PM
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Quote:
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It's a UHDTV (8MP per frame), not an HDTV (2MP per frame) so it's price will be much higher then a comparably sized HDTV.

Toshiba is selling their 55" UHDTV in the UK for an MSRP of $11,500. It is also an Autosetercopic 3D display ( no glasses required).

Since US pricing is usually lower than that of the UK, I'd say that "if" LG did release the 84" UHDTV here in the US, a price tag of say $10k wouldn't be over priced for what the TV is. Any more than that and people will veer away.
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post #30 of 67 Old 01-03-2012, 07:01 PM
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Quote:
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Since US pricing is usually lower than that of the UK, I'd say that "if" LG did release the 84" UHDTV here in the US, a price tag of say $10k wouldn't be over priced for what the TV is. Any more than that and people will veer away.

LG released the price on a 55" version.....

$8,000 - :-(

Will be 3-5 yrs at least before its near the realm of affordable unless they are close to lowering production costs but I would say they still have R&D high up.

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