Panasonic plasmas full 3D mode only 1080i? - AVS Forum
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Old 01-27-2012, 12:25 AM - Thread Starter
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In Consumer Reports the following is said in regards to VT30, GT30 & ST30 Panasonics:
Quote:


Resolution in 3D mode is 1080i to each eye, not full 1080p
In 3D mode, we saw 1080i (interlace video) performance
rather than true 1080p (progressive video) performance -- we saw on
flicker on fine edge detail on our test patterns and graphics, and jaggies
along the edges of image content during motion scenes.

Can't seem to find anywhere else that mentions this. Is this true?
Are they wrong? What gives? Does it matter?

-Steve
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Old 01-27-2012, 08:23 AM
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I don't know what they were watching. They're full of it.

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Old 01-27-2012, 09:10 AM
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Not so fast: there are many 3D encoding methods and for example SBS is 960x1080, top/bottom would be 1920x540 and since all broadcast is 1080i@60Hz, there is just no way to send full 1080p for each eye at more than 15FPS, which will never going to happen, as the frame rate would be too slow. Sooo, the only source of full 1080p frame for each eye are so encoded BR discs. And that brings other problems as well: no TV can accept 1080p at 120Hz, not all TV's can accept 48Hz input (double full frame of 24FPS film) and 60Hz creates problem with 3:2 pull up, where you have 3 frames for one eye and 2 frames for the other. Some of the above mentioned issues affect all Tv's, some could be specific to particular models and I don't know enough about Panasonic or the article itself to make that judgement, but don't dismiss the whole article as nonsense. Instead maybe you should try to understand what exactly they talk about. I own passive set, so don't care, but if they say so I would think it is so, at least in some cases.
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Old 01-27-2012, 09:18 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pete4 View Post

Not so fast: there are many 3D encoding methods and for example SBS is 960x1080, top/bottom would be 1920x540 and since all broadcast is 1080i@60Hz, there is just no way to send full 1080p for each eye at more than 15FPS, which will never going to happen, as the frame rate would be too slow. Sooo, the only source of full 1080p frame for each eye are so encoded BR discs. And that brings other problems as well: no TV can accept 1080p at 120Hz, not all TV's can accept 48Hz input (double full frame of 24FPS film) and 60Hz creates problem with 3:2 pull up, where you have 3 frames for one eye and 2 frames for the other. Some of the above mentioned issues affect all Tv's, some could be specific to particular models and I don't know enough about Panasonic or the article itself to make that judgement, but don't dismiss the whole article as nonsense. Instead maybe you should try to understand what exactly they talk about. I own passive set, so don't care, but if they say so I would think it is so, at least in some cases.

AFAIK, no broadcaster uses T/B 1080i. But ESPN3D does use 1280x720x60P T/B
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Old 01-27-2012, 09:40 AM
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Which is not 1080p. I don't even have one 3D broadcast channel yet, so not sure how they send it, but as I said before it is not physically possible to broadcast full 1080p 3D, not enough bandwidth, unless they change broadcast spec or use 2 channels, which would make pretty much all current TV's obsolete? I don't care enough about it to further investigate, since 3D looks pretty awesome on passive or active sets full 1080p HD or not, but dismissing CR report as nonsense, just because you like the set is incorrect.

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AFAIK, no broadcaster uses T/B 1080i. But ESPN3D does use 1280x720x60P T/B

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Old 01-27-2012, 10:04 AM
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As I said, I don't know what they are watching to make a blanket statement that 3D is only 1080i. BR discs are 1080p/24 frame sequential and display as such. In Panasonic VT30, it can be displayed at 48hz, 96 hz, or 60 hz input/120hz refresh (pulldown required). 48 Hz does display flicker. Broadcast Standards are 720p T/B, 1080i SBS, and 1080p T/B. ESPN 3D on Direct is 1080i SbS.

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Old 01-27-2012, 11:42 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pete4 View Post

Which is not 1080p. I don't even have one 3D broadcast channel yet, so not sure how they send it, but as I said before it is not physically possible to broadcast full 1080p 3D, not enough bandwidth, unless they change broadcast spec or use 2 channels, which would make pretty much all current TV's obsolete? I don't care enough about it to further investigate, since 3D looks pretty awesome on passive or active sets full 1080p HD or not, but dismissing CR report as nonsense, just because you like the set is incorrect.

Didn't you just say this?

Quote:


since all broadcast is 1080i@60Hz,

That is false. There is also 720P@60Hz. ABC uses this HDTV broadcast format
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Old 01-27-2012, 11:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Stewart View Post



That is false. There is also 720P@60Hz. ABC uses this HDTV broadcast format

and Fox, and ESPN, and a host of others. My Ion network is also 720 since there are 3 subchannels.

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Old 01-27-2012, 12:11 PM
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Panasonic 1080p plasmas refresh at 120fps and send a 1080p image to each eye.

Also note that 1080i/60 programs contain 30fps of content so they use about the same bandwidth as 720p/60 programs
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Old 01-27-2012, 02:44 PM
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Sorry, but this is all in the context of displaying 1080i as opposed to 1080p, per OP, OP never mentioned anything about 720p or 480, neither did I. Ok, so maybe I should have said at most 1080i, in case some people don't follow the topic too closely.

QUOTE
That is false. There is also 720P@60Hz. ABC uses this HDTV broadcast format[/quote]

I already explained, why you can't have 1080p in 3D broadcasted and if your source is not originally at 1080p, it will never be truly 1080p, no matter how you process it.
As far as I know every single 3D active set does 120FPS including LCD, and Panasonic plasma would be nothing special in that regard. Some plasma can run more than 240Hz, so what.

/QUOTE
Panasonic 1080p plasmas refresh at 120fps and send a 1080p image to each eye.
/QUOTE


Well, the question still remains why CR stated " Resolution in 3D mode is 1080i to each eye, not full 1080p
In 3D mode, we saw 1080i (interlace video) performance
rather than true 1080p (progressive video) performance" per OP.
I speculated about broadcast not being 1080p etc. anybody else can add to this? I don't have CR subscription, can't read whole thing, so why would they say so, what was the issue?
It's not the first time I see this topic being brought up about active 3D sets.
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Old 01-27-2012, 03:01 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pete4 View Post

I don't have CR subscription, can't read whole thing, so why would they say so, what was the issue?
It's not the first time I see this topic being brought up about active 3D sets.

That's cut and pasted exactly what CR said with regard to 1080i on pannys. Nothing more, nothing less.
On their website they have ratings of most of the available lcd/led & plasma 3D tv's,
with their normal red dot - black dot scores for various categories. When you click on a model they give
more details for what they felt about each display. That's where this is mentioned. Doesn't appear as a mention
with any other display. All of the Panasonic plasmas and only the panny's show this.

So the question still remains, or at least what I still would like some confirmation on, is that the Pannys are capable
of showing full 1080HD to each eye from blu-ray. And if they aren't, are other displays able to? (Samsung specifically)
-S
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Old 01-27-2012, 03:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sdj544 View Post

So the question still remains, or at least what I still would like some confirmation on, is that the Pannys are capable
of showing full 1080HD to each eye from blu-ray. And if they aren't, are other displays able to? (Samsung specifically)
-S

For Blu-ray 3D the answer is a yes.

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Old 01-27-2012, 04:51 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teachsac View Post

For Blu-ray 3D the answer is a yes.

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Old 01-27-2012, 05:41 PM
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I was working and didn't have time to post any diagrams.

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Old 01-27-2012, 05:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by walford View Post

Panasonic 1080p plasmas refresh at 120fps and send a 1080p image to each eye.

Also note that 1080i/60 programs contain 30fps of content so they use about the same bandwidth as 720p/60 programs

You can also do 48 and 96 hz with the VT series. I don't have an ST or GT series. I forget which one can do 48hz (with serious flicker).

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Old 01-28-2012, 10:36 AM
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Hey guys I have a Panny ST30. I'm trying to stream 3D from my Charter Cable box. All I get is 2 SBS pics. I can't seem to make any adjustments on the TV. Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.
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