Permanently burned ghost image on Samsung 3D LED HDTV. - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 8 Old 01-29-2012, 08:34 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
alman2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 21
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
The statement on first page of manual informs customers that TV might develop a permanently burned ghost images if viewing non-moving images of any kind, internet page, pictures, videogames, stocks, station logos, 4:3 format, etc. exceeds 5% of weekly viewing time. Permanently burned images are not covered by Samsung warranty! I just returned top line Samsung UN5507050 ($2800). It is unacceptable and Samsung is out of my list for good. I reviewed 60" Sharp, no warning was found. I will investigate Sony and LG.
Please do not underestimate this problem. In no way personal opinion can resolve this issue. Please share valid information (not opinion) related to this issue for major LED/LCD HDTV manufacturers.
alman2 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 8 Old 01-29-2012, 09:54 AM
Senior Member
 
man4mopar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Rochester MN
Posts: 457
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 14
So you read it in the manual. Have you experienced/read of any actually having the issue?
man4mopar is offline  
post #3 of 8 Old 01-29-2012, 04:34 PM
Senior Member
 
miahallen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: PNW
Posts: 260
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Sounds like you should never ever buy any product ever again....in your life. Because if you bother to read the full warranties on ANY product, you'll most ALWAYS be dissapponted.

Luckily, most of that language is for lawyers, and in the real world, most manufacturers are pretty reasonible with warranty issues.
RonAlam and Zachary Scott like this.
miahallen is offline  
post #4 of 8 Old 01-29-2012, 10:57 PM
AVS Special Member
 
pete4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,550
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
I have some warning about burn in image in my LG 3D LCD TV manual as well. The problem is the manual covers something like 50 different models including plasmas.
As far as valid information goes: I owned 4 LCD TV, 4 laptops and used few LCD monitors at work, some of them sitting on the same screen for hours and hours and I can't recall noticing any image burn on any LCD screen yet and I'm "I believe when I see it" type of person.
But first the term is wrong, it should be "image retention", you can't have anything burn in on LCD and if it is not "burn in" then it should clear even if present by running some different image on top of it.
For example my GPS comes with the warning to not to use it while driving, since it becomes too much distraction (oops) and therefore I don't even read all those idiotic warnings, waste of time.
If I had to speculate, maybe this Samsung warning is just in case, or maybe is something left over from plasma? Personally I don't worry about it.
pete4 is offline  
post #5 of 8 Old 01-30-2012, 12:42 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
alman2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 21
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by miahallen View Post

Sounds like you should never ever buy any product ever again....in your life. Because if you bother to read the full warranties on ANY product, you'll most ALWAYS be dissapponted.
Luckily, most of that language is for lawyers, and in the real world, most manufacturers are pretty reasonible with warranty issues.

Here is actual wording from pg-2 manual:
"Wide screen format LED Displays (16:9, the aspect ratio of the screen width to height) are primarily designed to view wide screen format full-motion video.
The images displayed on them should primarily be in the wide screen 16:9 ratio format, or expanded to fill the screen if your model offers this feature and the images are constantly moving. Displaying stationary graphics and images on screen, such as the dark sidebars on no expanded standard format
television video and programming, should be limited to no more than 5% of the total television viewing per week.
Additionally, viewing other stationary images and text such as stock market reports, video game displays, station logos, web sites or computer graphics and patterns, should be limited as described above for all televisions. Displaying stationary images that exceed the above guidelines can cause uneven
aging of LED Displays that leave subtle, but permanent burned-in ghost images in the LED picture.
To avoid this, vary the programming and images, and primarily display full screen moving images, not stationary patterns or dark bars. On LED models that offer picture sizing features, use these controls to
view different formats as a full screen picture.
Be careful in the selection and duration of television formats used for viewing. Uneven LED aging as a result of format selection and use, as well as burned in images, are not covered by your Samsung limited warranty.

-miahalled-Please do not bother to read this thread!
alman2 is offline  
post #6 of 8 Old 01-30-2012, 01:49 PM
Senior Member
 
man4mopar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Rochester MN
Posts: 457
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by alman2 View Post

Here is actual wording from pg-2 manual:
"Wide screen format LED Displays (16:9, the aspect ratio of the screen width to height) are primarily designed to view wide screen format full-motion video.
The images displayed on them should primarily be in the wide screen 16:9 ratio format, or expanded to fill the screen if your model offers this feature and the images are constantly moving. Displaying stationary graphics and images on screen, such as the dark sidebars on no expanded standard format
television video and programming, should be limited to no more than 5% of the total television viewing per week.
Additionally, viewing other stationary images and text such as stock market reports, video game displays, station logos, web sites or computer graphics and patterns, should be limited as described above for all televisions. Displaying stationary images that exceed the above guidelines can cause uneven
aging of LED Displays that leave subtle, but permanent burned-in ghost images in the LED picture.
To avoid this, vary the programming and images, and primarily display full screen moving images, not stationary patterns or dark bars. On LED models that offer picture sizing features, use these controls to
view different formats as a full screen picture.
Be careful in the selection and duration of television formats used for viewing. Uneven LED aging as a result of format selection and use, as well as burned in images, are not covered by your Samsung limited warranty.

-miahalled-Please do not bother to read this thread!

I do not believe anyone is questioning what you read. Sounds like they are covering there bases. LED's like any light will degrade with use, leave a section of them on bright and some off or low and you can get unbalanced light. Now I recomend you researching LED's, Fluorescent, Plasma and LCD degredation over time. You will find they all degrade and the degredation is pretty quick at first then mellow for a long time. LED's being the best at keeping there output. In case you didn't know LCD displays only use the LED's to provide the light, as Fluorescent and bulb types before flat panel's. So I would not worry about unbalanced lighting of the display. And far as image retention I have never seen a LCD hold a image either.

So again besides reading the manual for a what if, have you experienced or read of such happening?
man4mopar is offline  
post #7 of 8 Old 01-30-2012, 07:09 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
alman2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 21
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by man4mopar View Post

I do not believe anyone is questioning what you read. Sounds like they are covering there bases. LED's like any light will degrade with use, leave a section of them on bright and some off or low and you can get unbalanced light. Now I recomend you researching LED's, Fluorescent, Plasma and LCD degredation over time. You will find they all degrade and the degredation is pretty quick at first then mellow for a long time. LED's being the best at keeping there output. In case you didn't know LCD displays only use the LED's to provide the light, as Fluorescent and bulb types before flat panel's. So I would not worry about unbalanced lighting of the display. And far as image retention I have never seen a LCD hold a image either.

So again besides reading the manual for a what if, have you experienced or read of such happening?

Of course they are covering their bases, leaving me uncovered after spending 3G. Samsung HUB is highly advertised feature for accessing web, games and other programs full of static images, sport with score bars, logos, etc. Watching 4:3 format with side bars is also problem. The 5% weekly static image limitation is non-sense. How long image should be stationary to create a burn-in? The 5% for 40hrs is 2hr. What if TV is on for 70 hrs or more?
Burn-in does exist: http://forums.cnet.com/7723-13973_10...does-it-exist/
, and Samsung is not the only brand with this issue. The very reason I started this thread is to find out what is going on with today's technology. Personal opinion and assumption doesn't offset clearly written -NOT COVERED! If some one insists that this is written for lawyers, or they do it cover -good luck.
Now back to burn-in issue. LED degradation does not create a burn-in image. Instead, it causes uneven brightness spots similar to older, edge LED backlight. BTW, burn-in exists with edge LED backlight, where there is no LED located immediately behind the LCD panel. This fact indicates that LED itself, or its aging, does not contribute to burn-in permanent images. In LCD TV some liquid crystals might not return (stack permanently) in its position whether or not polarization current is applied. They continue reflect light when should not to. Such crystals are dead pixels. The angle of stocked crystals determines the visibility of burn-in image. The problem might be fixed, not guaranteed, by running rapidly changing colors of all display for prolonged period of time. This generates heavy polarization current, to move stocked crystal. This is my theory, based on what I know. I might be wrong, unless have a credible explanation not provided by manufacturer. I have to admit that Samsung Smart TV is very impressive and will do every reasonable effort to investigate this issue.
The answer to you question- I do not have any experience, and that is why I started this thread. Reading manual gives me a clear answer for a what if. Thanks for reply. Please be specific and stay on issue.
alman2 is offline  
post #8 of 8 Old 03-27-2013, 10:17 PM
Member
 
patmacav's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 17
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
alman2, I understand and totally share your concern. 3 years ago I purchased the last Samsung plasma (E430 series - cheap) TV I'll ever own, because it has burn in issues caused by the TV's own too brightly displayed HDMI connection display, which only appears when HDMI source is selected but no signal is present. I can tell you this condition only occurs for brief periods of time but long enough to cause burn in. I also have burn in from my Oppo logo which again only occurs briefly while the Oppo is loading. What a piece of crap this Samsung plasma turned out to be. Worst TV investment I ever made.

So now I'm looking at replacing it with another Samsung, but this time a un55es6600 LCD/LED and in reviewing the owner manual ran into the warning on the bottom of page 2, about LED burnin which is not covered under warrantee. And because of my plasma issues I have to wonder, does Samsung make any TVs that won't have burnin issues? I sure don't want to make another mistake like my last Samsung plasma purchase. Screw me once shame on you, screw me twice shame on me.

I have a cheap 40" Toshiba flourecent backlit LCD TV that has been issueless and can display anything I throw at it with no problems whatsoever and truth be told have considered buying a 65" same technology Toshiba to replace the plasma debacle. My only hesitation is the Toshiba LCD TV is not that old and I don't know how long it will last. And we're talking $$$$ here, so I don't want to make another mistake. I just looked at the Samsung because the micro dimming backlit LCDs have gotten very good picture quality reviews and I thought it might be time for a smart TV and 3D.

Maybe not, I'd like to see more input about why Samsung has such a disclaimer myself. Not just.. oh.. their covering their bases. There's nothing in my Toshiba manual like this disclaimer.

Anybody from Samsung want to chime in and set the record straight on this issue?
I called Samsung tech support a half hour ago and his response was, we don't manufacture them here, we are just support..
WHAT!?
Nice Samsung!
Real nice!

I think I just decided on the Toshiba.
patmacav is offline  
Reply 3D Displays



Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off