New LG passive TV has best 3D - Opinion - Page 7 - AVS Forum
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post #181 of 237 Old 04-06-2012, 08:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cakefoo View Post

I always sat at TV height when I had active, so viewing angle isn't an advantage to me. I still included it because it affects some people.

P.S. I just think it's discouraging that when I search "active shutterglasses lightweight" on amazon I get all these bulky frames:

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_no...es+lightweight

Just as in that "study", one can't base one's critique of active glasses on just a few models. Just because some Fords are slow and ugly, doesn't mean that a GT40 is slow and ugly, and has nothing to do with other makes of automobiles.

As for the amazon search, lightweight is the opposite of "heavy", not the opposite of "bulky". (A bulky sweater can still be lightweight.) Maybe "svelte" is what you're looking for.

Besides, everyone is in the dark, and they are watching TV, not each other, so I don't see the issue with them "looking bulky". Comfort is (and should be) the only issue.

Glasses can be comfortable whether they are active or passive, so the glasses are a non-issue, IMO.

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post #182 of 237 Old 04-29-2012, 12:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robut View Post

I strongly dispute this "Oh and its full 3D HD". This has been hashed over to the point of nausea in this forum. Therefore, I will not comment further.

Bet you do, going on your previous posts about this particular subject
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post #183 of 237 Old 04-29-2012, 01:22 AM
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Wow, A dead horse, I mean just wow.

Hey Auger saw the lines when i stood right up next to the tv. Thanks

ROBUT, did you hear about 48fps at Cinemacon?
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post #184 of 237 Old 04-29-2012, 10:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by asdetail View Post

Bet you do, going on your previous posts about this particular subject

That quote you referred to is a little old. I've since decided to try to stay off that subject. I was booted off of the LG 6500 stream because of being a little too emphatic about my opinion. It isn't a nice feeling to be chastised so at least for now that's it.
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post #185 of 237 Old 04-29-2012, 10:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wonka702 View Post

Wow, A dead horse, I mean just wow.

Hey Auger saw the lines when i stood right up next to the tv. Thanks

ROBUT, did you hear about 48fps at Cinemacon?

Well I've certainly heard of 48fps. I'm not familiar with Cinemacon. Why do you ask? It's about "Hobbit" I assume. I think it my not have the soap opera effect problem, that frankly I've never been aware of if I've experienced it. That effect is probably brought on by using interpolation to handle motion artifacts. 48fps and later 60fps may be just great.
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post #186 of 237 Old 04-30-2012, 06:00 AM
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I want to add that the number one disadvantage for passive, at least for me, is that I see black lines in each eye. To me this is very distracting. I haven't spent a lot of time with the LG and wish that my Best Buy offered a 3D demo.... all they offer is 2D-3D conversion. This makes it impossible for me to determine if the 3D-effect is better than on an active set.

One thing I'm wondering - if every other line is black, does that not reduce the brightness of the image?


Quote:
Originally Posted by cakefoo View Post

Not to imply anyone is an idiot for choosing active over passive, but after owning active sets for ~16 months and passive for 2, I have concluded that passive is by far the better overall choice.

Passive's advantages:
Comfort - No electronics, batteries or glass allows them to be very light and flexible.
Brightness/saturation - you can only pump up an active shutter TV so much before it starts to clip highlights and flood color detail.
Way less eye fatigue in my experience. I believe it's due to the lack of flicker and blur.
Passive clip ons available for prescription glasses
Glasses price (as low as 80 cents per pair, or free if you go to the theater)
Varied selection of premium quality frames available online
Theater glasses work at home and your higher quality passives work at the theater

Active shutter's advantages:
Resolution
Viewing angle


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post #187 of 237 Old 04-30-2012, 11:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robut View Post


Well I've certainly heard of 48fps. I'm not familiar with Cinemacon. Why do you ask? It's about "Hobbit" I assume. I think it my not have the soap opera effect problem, that frankly I've never been aware of if I've experienced it. That effect is probably brought on by using interpolation to handle motion artifacts. 48fps and later 60fps may be just great.

You are correct, hated motion flow/120hz at first but it kinda growing on me. And was just trying to change subject after this dead horse came back to life, although I have changed my opinions a bit and am looking for an active display for myself to watch 3d and gonna move the passive to my bedroom.

Cinemacon is the new convention name for Showest. NATO fired showest and handled convention arrangements themselves this year.
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post #188 of 237 Old 04-30-2012, 12:24 PM
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A side by side comparison at Best Buy would be nice where we could go in and see passive and active but you are lucky to sample any 3D in Best Buy. They never seem to have any glasses available so I guess we continue to rely on this forum.

I, like many others, are trying to decide between a Samsung ES8000 and an LG, either LM9600 when it becomes available or LM7600 or LM6700.
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post #189 of 237 Old 04-30-2012, 01:50 PM
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Luckily, my local Best Buy has their 3d displays setup and working with the LG 55LM7600 and Samsung, Sony and Panny sets (not exactly sure which models) and I was able to see the LG passive as well as the other manufacturers Active setups and for my own personal taste there is not really even a contest. The active displays ALL had noticeable flicker in the outline of different objects and I was not impressed with depth or clarity. I have to say Panasonic had the best of the active displays by a decent margin. Sony was the worst and Samsung in the middle. For me it's no contest but everyone's preferences differ. I now own a 65LM6200 and I think the 3d is amazing as is the PQ in general. This year's improved 2d to 3d engine is nice as well. It adds to many different types of programming.

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post #190 of 237 Old 04-30-2012, 03:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jscott70 View Post

Luckily, my local Best Buy has their 3d displays setup and working with the LG 55LM7600 and Samsung, Sony and Panny sets (not exactly sure which models) and I was able to see the LG passive as well as the other manufacturers Active setups and for my own personal taste there is not really even a contest. The active displays ALL had noticeable flicker in the outline of different objects and I was not impressed with depth or clarity. I have to say Panasonic had the best of the active displays by a decent margin. Sony was the worst and Samsung in the middle. For me it's no contest but everyone's preferences differ. I now own a 65LM6200 and I think the 3d is amazing as is the PQ in general. This year's improved 2d to 3d engine is nice as well. It adds to many different types of programming.

The Bestbuys in my are have the four way display. Unfortunately they are showing less than 1080 resolution on all four displays.
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post #191 of 237 Old 04-30-2012, 06:33 PM
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Want to test crosstalk with a brutal Blu-ray 3D torture test? Download this iso file and burn it to a single layer Blu-ray disc with ImgBurn (or to a single layer DVD if you have one of the Sony or Samsung Blu-ray 3D players that can play back 3D from DVD media). It's really short, but it will tell you if there is any crosstalk with the LG set. A friend of mine has one of these sets and I'm going to try it out tomorrow. I saw it the other day, and I was quite impressed, even though I didn't have the opportunity to check out much content. I can't recall a single instance of ghosting, but I'll be shocked if I can say the same after watching this torture test on it. If it still shows no ghosting, I may consider getting one. It's brighter than my active displays and very easy on the eyes. The resolution also looked much better than other passive displays I've seen.

This test is far from a "real world" measure, since it will reveal whether a set has the tiniest amount of ghosting. Please don't flame me, since I'm saying up front that this is not a *fair* test of any 3D display, in that commercial movies will never have 3D frames like the ones on this disc.

Just follow the directions on screen.

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post #192 of 237 Old 05-01-2012, 05:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stumlad View Post

I want to add that the number one disadvantage for passive, at least for me, is that I see black lines in each eye. To me this is very distracting. I haven't spent a lot of time with the LG and wish that my Best Buy offered a 3D demo.... all they offer is 2D-3D conversion. This makes it impossible for me to determine if the 3D-effect is better than on an active set.

One thing I'm wondering - if every other line is black, does that not reduce the brightness of the image?

Yes, it does reduce the brightness of the image, but so so does Active 3D, as the shutters close to each eye half of the time.

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post #193 of 237 Old 05-01-2012, 06:20 AM
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My LG passive set has been the brightest, almost 100% ghost free, 3d effect out there! We sent from a Samsung LED (horrible ghosting), to a Panasonic VT25 (some ghosting - dark picture) to the LG (bringht - ghost free - crazy 3d effect). We also have a 103" projector setup in the basement (never gets used due to the LG - hence I am looking to replace it with a 65" LG passive) as well as I owned the Sony HMZ (which is 100% ghost free however we preferred the 3d effect on the LG).

We are SOLD on Passive! The only issue is that the TV HAS TO BE AT EYE LEVEL - if not the TV will show horrible ghosting. This is the effect that happens at retail as the TV's are set to high on the wall or too low on the wall. Drives me nuts lol!!!
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post #194 of 237 Old 05-01-2012, 11:27 AM
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I don't think brightness is an issue with passive or active as you can adjust settings. I think some people have their display too bright.

If I wanted passive I would wait on the 4k sets, they will be much better than the current passive and it's problems.
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post #195 of 237 Old 05-01-2012, 01:11 PM
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I tried my "torture test" Blu-ray 3D disc today and the LG does ghost. It blows away both my Samsung LCD and plasma, but it's not quite DLP-like in its ability to limit crosstalk.

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post #196 of 237 Old 05-02-2012, 10:50 PM
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Lg is the leading in electronics world and its all products are very attractive one. Lg is also popular in the field of TV and its providing 3D technology so it is the best one experience. I must say that its features and quality are the awesome.
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post #197 of 237 Old 05-05-2012, 12:17 PM
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I work in the film industry - doing mostly 3DST film titles and VFX. I've really, really appreciated the forums here as I've been putting together a HT. Thought I'd share a couple bits of info from my field that may be helpful. Should be noted that this is certainly not meant to "authoritative", 3DST is still new and being figured out in our industry too …

Re Passive vs Active: At the moment there isn't really a standard in Post Production. Choice of format is usually based on two criteria:
1. The use. For long term viewing (i.e all day) like editing or 3D conversion QC sessions (of the 3DST only, not the overall picture quality) the choice is usually Passive. For short viewing sessions like final QC and "finishing" sessions, the choice is usually Active.
2. The user. Different people's eyes/brain perceive/process visual information in different ways ...

Some people have sharper vision for resolution, their brains tend to process more detail into "image fusion". For this group the interlaced nature of passive 3D may really stick out and bother them.

Other people have sharper "persistence of vision", i.e. their mental "refresh rate" is slightly quicker. For this group active 3D TV's will have a very noticeable and distracting flicker.

Interestingly most people seem to have one or the other "sharper" vision, not both.

For your home 3DTV I would suggest a simply viewing test of each 3DTV format (active and passive), and, whichever looks good to you then go with it. I would also suggest your view test last at least 10 minutes.

Re future of 3DTV's: This technology is still in it's infancy. There are two immanent advances that will essentially even the playing field re Passive vs Active question in the next few years.

4K will make Passive a "visually" true full HD/2K 3D format on screens smaller than 80" or 90".

Faster refresh rates will eliminate the flicker on Active 3D. Somewhere between 180hz and 192hz is a sweet spot where no-one will see a flicker. (Currently most theatrical active 3D systems use refresh rates of 140 or higher, which is why you hear "fewer" flicker complaints.)

Both of these advancements will also help reduce or eliminate ghosting. (From what I've read/heard "good" glasses-less 3DTV is still quite a ways off.)
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post #198 of 237 Old 05-13-2012, 11:45 AM
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I have an new LG 3DTV - the 42" LGM5800, and think it's great.

I like Passive. I had tried both Active and Passive in stores to see which I'd preferred.

The only issue I'm having is that when I put a 3D movie on - using my Sony S470 3D BD Player, I will have to sometimes switch the TV Input back and forth from the HDMI input [the BD] to Component [the U-Verse Cable box] and back to HDMI due to an evident mismatch of the 3D mode [it'll display stacked wide screen images on top of each other]. Once switched though, everything is perfectly fine.

I'm suspecting maybe a firmware update is needed for the TV. It's quite a new model.

Anybody else have this happen, or can enlighten me?
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post #199 of 237 Old 05-18-2012, 10:24 AM
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I'm looking at getting a 3d tv somewhere in the 46 to 60" range. I've watched 3D active on 2 different samsung led's 8000 series and 6900 series as well as 2 different panasonic plasmas (not sure on models but high end).

I also saw the 3d demo on the lg7600 at Best Buy and spoke to some Magnolia techs.

I've also looked at the Sharp Elite 60 and 70".

Here are my findings:

1) Sharp Elite has had the best picture of all active sets by far. 60" better than 70" in my opinion.
2) Samsung 8000 was better than 6900 (less flickering), but could have been lighting related somewhat
3) Plasma's don't interest me due to power use and heat (yes both got hot) and overall image quality.


The Magnolia techs agreed the Sharp Elite was very good in 3D but said it was poor at viewing angles. I tried this and verified their claim that the LG 7600 series was much better at other angles. I didn't have the same source on the LG to compare, which I'm hoping I can do another day.

No one said anything in this thread about the Sharp Elite, maybe due to high cost. How does it compare to the newer LG?

Can someone explain the differences in LG models for me:

6700, 7600, 8600, and 9600 (9600 not out yet?)

I'd think you'd want 240hz or higher on the LG for better 3D and overal picture quality.

One thing I liked about the Sharp Elite active glasses was that you could set them to display 2d or 3d incase you had someone who wanted to watch but didn't like the 3d.

Nice thread... I'm looking forward to your feedback.
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post #200 of 237 Old 05-19-2012, 03:58 PM
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So I went and viewed the 2012 active models at Frys when I went to purchase Puss and Boots and Ice Age in 3d. Thought active looked very good, got home put in my 3d blu ray of Ice Age 3 and low and behold my 2011 Vizio passive looked beautiful too. I like both.
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post #201 of 237 Old 06-15-2012, 03:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joseph Clark View Post

Want to test crosstalk with a brutal Blu-ray 3D torture test? Download this iso file and burn it to a single layer Blu-ray disc with ImgBurn (or to a single layer DVD if you have one of the Sony or Samsung Blu-ray 3D players that can play back 3D from DVD media). It's really short, but it will tell you if there is any crosstalk with the LG set. A friend of mine has one of these sets and I'm going to try it out tomorrow. I saw it the other day, and I was quite impressed, even though I didn't have the opportunity to check out much content. I can't recall a single instance of ghosting, but I'll be shocked if I can say the same after watching this torture test on it. If it still shows no ghosting, I may consider getting one. It's brighter than my active displays and very easy on the eyes. The resolution also looked much better than other passive displays I've seen.


This test is far from a "real world" measure, since it will reveal whether a set has the tiniest amount of ghosting. Please don't flame me, since I'm saying up front that this is not a *fair* test of any 3D display, in that commercial movies will never have 3D frames like the ones on this disc.


Just follow the directions on screen.

This link no longer seems to work. What was this video anyway? Does anybody know where else it can be downloaded?

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post #202 of 237 Old 06-15-2012, 09:12 PM
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TC-P65VT50 or the 55 inch has the best 3d right now. There is a 55 inch panny LED coming out soon. But from what I have read the plasma vt is the best one out so far. And I saw prices already dropping. Think I will wait till labor day and get one of these! Unless something else comes out and changes my mind again
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post #203 of 237 Old 09-01-2012, 01:13 PM
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hi!
i am new to this forum,

i have the Lg lm7600 42inch and would like to really know what 3d settings you have on this tv or the lm 8700,
i have been using a 3d active toshiba tv and the 3d image looked and felt a bit more punchier probably because of the extra details, although i prefer the lg, active 3d with slight crosstalk looked better than passive
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post #204 of 237 Old 09-13-2012, 12:09 PM
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It is obvious that your vision is additive and that passive 3D systems have full 1080 resolution.

1. LEFT AND RIGHT IMAGES ARE ADDED BY THE EYE: Can your left eye fill in details that your right eye is missing -- without you knowing?

YES - it happens all the time. Every one has a blind spot in each eye (just look up how to find your blind spot); and yet you don't see the blind spot at all or even detect is presence. WHY? because the other eye fills in the details for you, ie: it ADDS in information that is missing from the other eye and you notice no blind spot at all. The eye's inputs are added together by the brain to create a complete picture.

YES - this also happens if you happen to have a tumor on your optic nerve, it sometimes can cause a small partial vision loss in one eye, but often the victim doesn't notice the loss of vision in just one eye because the other eye fills in the missing details. Of course this vision loss becomes apparent when the other eye is covered.

2. THERE IS NO 3D VERTICAL INFORMATION: 3D on TV is a totally horizontal effect, produced by offsetting cameras horizontally from each other. As a result, all 3D information is contained in the horizontal pixel differences. There is no 3D information vertically (ie: you can't see more of the top of a building with your right eye than your left, instead you see exactly the same image in both eyes). It doesn't matter if your right or left eye sees the vertical information, the picture is unchanged in 3D vertically and your eye simply adds the information together as in #1. As a result passive 3D does indeed have full 1080 resolution. Of course if there was 3D vertical information, then it wouldn't work because your brain would not be able to make sense of 3D information coming in the wrong eye.
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post #205 of 237 Old 09-13-2012, 09:59 PM
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I guest that's irrefutable proof.
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post #206 of 237 Old 09-14-2012, 02:52 AM
 
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This thread is a good example of how to waste away your life arguing over nonsense.

The coming 2013 DLP front projectors have no eyestrain or flicker with active glasses. The BenQ w7000 proved these concepts this year.
Go to the front projector forum and choose very carefully.

2K flat panels should go the active 3D route to retain all the rez. 4K flat panels displays should go the passive route as the left and right eye each get their own 2K.

The problem is 4K panels cost $20K right now.
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post #207 of 237 Old 09-18-2012, 12:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robut View Post

I guest that's irrefutable proof.

That and the recent German VDE award that certified “Full HD in 3D-Mode” by VDE, one of the largest technical and scientific international associations in Europe.

Pretty much puts that discussion to bed.
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post #208 of 237 Old 09-18-2012, 01:56 PM
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That and the recent German VDE award that certified “Full HD in 3D-Mode” by VDE, one of the largest technical and scientific international associations in Europe.
Pretty much puts that discussion to bed.

Riddle me this batman.

If our eyes are adding in the missing information, there must be information missing in the first place, for this "other" information to be added by the eyes, correct?

1080p of vertical resolution, interlaced to reduce half of the vertical information, doesn't magically become 1080p of vertical resolution again just because our eyes can magically add back information.
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post #209 of 237 Old 09-18-2012, 02:54 PM
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That and the recent German VDE award that certified “Full HD in 3D-Mode” by VDE, one of the largest technical and scientific international associations in Europe.
Pretty much puts that discussion to bed.

I was being sarcastic. As long as half the lines of vertical resolution are black to each eye all the time it can't be 1080p. The German VDE is sort of right, that all the information is displayed. It's just that it's displayed in two consecutive images on the same 540 lines of vertical resolution to each eye.

But then again I can't believe after all this time and repetition this is still being argued.
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post #210 of 237 Old 09-18-2012, 05:13 PM
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Image fusion to get "full" 1080p should work for a fair portion of the 3D image. Any areas where the left and right images are the same, such as text or flat objects, both eyes see the same details just perhaps shifted left and right to put said objects in 3D space. Any areas where the left and right images are not the same, where the left eye is seeing details that the left eye isn't, there's no way to make up what's lost by throwing out half of the lines. The most extreme example would be zones of half occlusion. That is, take a look at the left side of your monitor (assuming that's what you're viewing this on one). Close your left eye and look at the left edge of the monitor. Now close your right eye and open your left. Notice how much more you can now see behind the monitor, visual information that is only available to your left eye. Now imagine it with horizontal black lines! Your right eye has nothing to compensate for that. And I think that's irrefutable.
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