New LG passive TV has best 3D - Opinion - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 237 Old 03-22-2012, 08:37 AM - Thread Starter
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According to this review http://www.televisioninfo.com/conten...DTV-Review.htm

Oh and its full 3D HD. Also the review mentions that it produces a lot less cross talk and eye strain. Can any owners of the new TV's chime in with their thoughts?
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post #2 of 237 Old 03-22-2012, 08:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ssgmun5000 View Post

According to this review http://www.televisioninfo.com/conten...DTV-Review.htm

Oh and its full 3D HD. Also the review mentions that it produces a lot less cross talk and eye strain. Can any owners of the new TV's chime in with their thoughts?

I strongly dispute this "Oh and its full 3D HD". This has been hashed over to the point of nausea in this forum. Therefore, I will not comment further.
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post #3 of 237 Old 03-22-2012, 09:35 AM
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I actually got the 55" LM7600 delivered to my house today and have played with it a bit, sampling some of my 3D BluRays and videogames (PS3 and 360).

Now this is a totally unscientific opinion based on comparing PQ and 3DPQ between this new TV and my 2010 63" Samsung active shutter 3D plasma (PN63C8000) but so far I've been really, really impressed with the new LG. Some observations:

- Ghosting is pretty much a non-factor with this TV; I've played several passages that regularly caused ghosting on my plasma such as the car closeups in 3D Rift, objects flying towards the screen in 3D Infinity, various shots showing stars in Hubble 3D; they and scenes of extreme contrast ranges all look perfect on the LM7600 so far.

- The image quality looks, to my eyes to be every bit as sharp as my active shutter plasma. I'm sitting at a distance of 6.5-7 feet away from the 55" set and the image appears crisp with no stairstepping (something I observed on earlier gen passive sets).

- The LM7600 is, as expected, much brighter than my active shutter in 3D mode with more vibrant colors using pretty much the out of the box standard settings (I only dropped the sharpness setting).

- The sense of 3D feels much better; passages of some of my BluRays where I tended to lose the sense of depth come thru much more strongly on the LM7600.

- 2D>3D mode yields a visible sense of depth at default setting but also some odd warping effects; I've only used with with OTA broadcasts and need to experiment further but at first blush, it is improved but still doesn't seem quite natural; should be serviceable for gaming, not sure about live action yet.

- There is some noticeable edge-bleeding when the TV first starts up and is not receiving an input signal but everything looks fine when a signal is coming to the TV.

- The 3D comes thru fine and clear with my RealD 3D glasses that I got at the movies so I have more glasses than I can use (in addition to the 6 that came with the TV; Best Buy also threw in the 3D starter kit that gives 2 adult glasses, 2 clip-ons and 2 kids glasses and a 2.1 wireless subwoofer sound bar that I haven't even set up yet.

I need to review more of my library of games and movies (curious to see how it handles Hugo) and I've barely scratched the surface of the TV's other abilities (networked apps, DLNA, etc.) but my first impression is that LG has really nailed passive 3D with this set and its the first one I've seen that easily trumps the PQ that my active shutter plasma can put out. I'm very happy with it so far.
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post #4 of 237 Old 03-22-2012, 11:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyDP View Post

I actually got the 55" LM7600 delivered to my house today and have played with it a bit, sampling some of my 3D BluRays and videogames (PS3 and 360).

Now this is a totally unscientific opinion based on comparing PQ and 3DPQ between this new TV and my 2010 63" Samsung active shutter 3D plasma (PN63C8000) but so far I've been really, really impressed with the new LG. Some observations:

- Ghosting is pretty much a non-factor with this TV; I've played several passages that regularly caused ghosting on my plasma such as the car closeups in 3D Rift, objects flying towards the screen in 3D Infinity, various shots showing stars in Hubble 3D; they and scenes of extreme contrast ranges all look perfect on the LM7600 so far.

-snip-

You don't see any ghosting at all, or is it just significantly reduced? Can you test a dark area within a game (like uncharted 3 for example) with the depth set to max?
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post #5 of 237 Old 03-22-2012, 12:11 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyDP View Post

I actually got the 55" LM7600 delivered to my house today and have played with it a bit, sampling some of my 3D BluRays and videogames (PS3 and 360).

Now this is a totally unscientific opinion based on comparing PQ and 3DPQ between this new TV and my 2010 63" Samsung active shutter 3D plasma (PN63C8000) but so far I've been really, really impressed with the new LG. Some observations:

- Ghosting is pretty much a non-factor with this TV; I've played several passages that regularly caused ghosting on my plasma such as the car closeups in 3D Rift, objects flying towards the screen in 3D Infinity, various shots showing stars in Hubble 3D; they and scenes of extreme contrast ranges all look perfect on the LM7600 so far.

- The image quality looks, to my eyes to be every bit as sharp as my active shutter plasma. I'm sitting at a distance of 6.5-7 feet away from the 55" set and the image appears crisp with no stairstepping (something I observed on earlier gen passive sets).

- The LM7600 is, as expected, much brighter than my active shutter in 3D mode with more vibrant colors using pretty much the out of the box standard settings (I only dropped the sharpness setting).

- The sense of 3D feels much better; passages of some of my BluRays where I tended to lose the sense of depth come thru much more strongly on the LM7600.

- 2D>3D mode yields a visible sense of depth at default setting but also some odd warping effects; I've only used with with OTA broadcasts and need to experiment further but at first blush, it is improved but still doesn't seem quite natural; should be serviceable for gaming, not sure about live action yet.

- There is some noticeable edge-bleeding when the TV first starts up and is not receiving an input signal but everything looks fine when a signal is coming to the TV.

- The 3D comes thru fine and clear with my RealD 3D glasses that I got at the movies so I have more glasses than I can use (in addition to the 6 that came with the TV; Best Buy also threw in the 3D starter kit that gives 2 adult glasses, 2 clip-ons and 2 kids glasses and a 2.1 wireless subwoofer sound bar that I haven't even set up yet.

I need to review more of my library of games and movies (curious to see how it handles Hugo) and I've barely scratched the surface of the TV's other abilities (networked apps, DLNA, etc.) but my first impression is that LG has really nailed passive 3D with this set and its the first one I've seen that easily trumps the PQ that my active shutter plasma can put out. I'm very happy with it so far.


Thanks for your impressions. 3D on these sets are sounding great. I do not want to go into the technicality of the full HD 3D since a previous poster is already trying to argue otherwise. The 3D always looked great to me on the LW6500..what I am more interested in is the claim of the reduced eye-strain. Have you noticed any improvement on this?
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post #6 of 237 Old 03-22-2012, 04:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TreeDee View Post

You don't see any ghosting at all, or is it just significantly reduced? Can you test a dark area within a game (like uncharted 3 for example) with the depth set to max?

I have seen zero ghosting so far. While I haven't had a chance to try Uncharted 3 yet (I do own the game and will try to check it out; let me know if there is a specific area you're interested in) I did check out a few more scenes that would trip up my Samsung plasma:

- Selected scenes from Hugo had zero ghosting; even a scene near the end of Melies wearing a black tux with a white shirt (which was murder on the plasma) looked rock solid on the LM7600 without any double-imaging whatsoever.

- The Avatar videogame for 360 (played in side by side mode) had really bad ghosting whenever there was a closeup of a character speaking to you on the plasma; the same graphics on the LM7600 looked perfect; no double-images at all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ssgmun5000 View Post

Thanks for your impressions. 3D on these sets are sounding great. I do not want to go into the technicality of the full HD 3D since a previous poster is already trying to argue otherwise. The 3D always looked great to me on the LW6500..what I am more interested in is the claim of the reduced eye-strain. Have you noticed any improvement on this?

I've put in about two hours on the set (45 minutes in one go being the most continuous time so far) and I've had zero headaches or eyestrain. I was showing the 3D to my parents (who've never really used a 3D set) and neither reported any ill effects from watching about 15 minutes of Under the Sea.

Again, I want to stress there's nothing scientific about what I'm reporting here; just my observations of the set compared to my Samsung 3D plasma which I've owned for almost 2 1/2 years.

EDIT: I was curious to see how a post conversion would look on the 7600 so I watched Green Lantern fron start to finish. I'm a GL fan so I've seen this movie several times and am very familiar with scenes that trip up my plasma. On my plasma I got only a minor sense of depth and lots of double images throughout the film. With the 7600 the increased brightness yielded much better depth and I again observed zero ghosting. The image was also razor sharp, every bit as much so as my plasma. The experience was so much better it really felt like I was seeing the movie for the first time. Based on what I've seen so far I think LG has nailed the 3D experience with the LM7600.

EDIT #2: Forgot to mention this but probably worth noting; the screen on the 7600 is fairly glossy and can definitely be plagued by reflections based on where its positioned. I have a window right behind where I sit and its clearly visible as a reflection in the TV during the daytime. Its not a problem at night and a heavy curtain should block out most of the light during the day but its definitely something to be aware of.
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post #7 of 237 Old 03-22-2012, 07:31 PM
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It's good to hear that LG is producing great 3D images.

I am waiting for this TV.



It is an 84" 4K passive 3D TV from LG. I saw this at CES 2012 and it looks great.

I hope that it will come out this year.

I have the Panasonic VT30 65" Plasmas 3D TV but I just don't like active 3D anymore.
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post #8 of 237 Old 03-22-2012, 08:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyDP View Post

I have seen zero ghosting so far. While I haven't had a chance to try Uncharted 3 yet (I do own the game and will try to check it out; let me know if there is a specific area you're interested in) I did check out a few more scenes that would trip up my Samsung plasma:

- Selected scenes from Hugo had zero ghosting; even a scene near the end of Melies wearing a black tux with a white shirt (which was murder on the plasma) looked rock solid on the LM7600 without any double-imaging whatsoever.

- The Avatar videogame for 360 (played in side by side mode) had really bad ghosting whenever there was a closeup of a character speaking to you on the plasma; the same graphics on the LM7600 looked perfect; no double-images at all.

I'll take your word for it. I was just curious since the review posted up above gave me the impression that crosstalk was just significantly reduced instead of completely eliminated.
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post #9 of 237 Old 03-22-2012, 09:50 PM
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I believe that passive has zero ghosting as long as you are in the "sweet spot" (eye level with center of the screen). I've noticed that if you are watching slightly below or above the center of the screen, then you get some ghosting.
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post #10 of 237 Old 03-22-2012, 09:59 PM
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From the Review:

It seems like they are dong 1080p passive, and they specifically mention that previously LG passive was NOT 1080p per eye in the older model.

We felt that passive lenses were an improvement on active shutter glasses because they did not flicker, but passive technology (until now) had it's own set of drawbacks. Before circular polarization of light was employed, passive 3D televisions used the same 135º and 45º angles and polarized lenses to make 3D images. However, to achieve these angles, the screen was divided into a a crisscross pattern. It was hard to see with the eye, but every other line of pixels was removed to show a directional picture that could be filtered by polarized glasses. Removing every other line of pixels means a halving of the resolution. No longer can you see 1080p 3D images, the best you can hope for is something slightly better than standard definition. If you turned your head one way or the other, the polarization did not work because the angles were incorrect, and the 3D illusion would be ruined. Any amount of angle to your head would cause severe crosstalk because the angles for the wrong eye would creep into the glasses. Unless you wanted to watch your 3D TV with a protractor taped to your head, the image quality would not be worthy of the investment.

LG's new circularly polarized images and Film Patterned Retarder (FPR) lenses combine to remove all of these disadvantages. There is no resolution loss, because pixels do not need to be cutout to make the angles for polarization, meaning you can watch 1080p 3D images. There is no flickering, and therefore no refresh rate loss. Due to the circular nature of the light waves, you can still see 3D images with your head off-angle (as a side note, the vertical angle is not very good. We recommend keeping your eye-level at the vertical center of the display). The crosstalk numbers are far and away the best we have ever seen, proving to be an extremely noticeable improvement when watching actual 3D content. The glasses are light and inexpensive, as well as fashionable. LG is working with designers to make combined UV/Polarized sunglasses that work with their 3D displays.
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post #11 of 237 Old 03-22-2012, 10:09 PM
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Yes, it is true, if the resolution is lost somehow, it still produces an image that is so clear and vibrant with zero crosstalk or ghosting that, this technology will one day surpass expensive shutter glass technology.
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post #12 of 237 Old 03-22-2012, 10:28 PM
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From the Review:

"It seems like they are dong 1080p passive, and they specifically mention that previously LG passive was NOT 1080p per eye in the older model."

I completely believe that there is no crosstalk if viewed from the sweet spot.

But time and time again it has been pointed out that that every other pixel line is black to each eye. FPR means there is a pattern applied to the screen with every second line polarized opposite the right and left lens of the glasses. It doesn't matter that it's circular polarization when things are opposite polarization they are made black. Therefore, say what you will, every second pixel line is black to each eye. Therefore it can not possibly be 1080p.

With the LG firmware update they put the information that would be in the black line of pixels in the none black line 1/120 of a second later, but the black line is still black. With this update LG claims all 1080 lines are there. The black lines are still there. It is not 1080p.

Watch this video www.youtube.com/watch?v=ETc3Ep3wcEk
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post #13 of 237 Old 03-23-2012, 05:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robut View Post

From the Review:

"It seems like they are dong 1080p passive, and they specifically mention that previously LG passive was NOT 1080p per eye in the older model."

I completely believe that there is no crosstalk if viewed from the sweet spot.

But time and time again it has been pointed out that that every other pixel line is black to each eye. FPR means there is a pattern applied to the screen with every second line polarized opposite the right and left lens of the glasses. It doesn't matter that it's circular polarization when things are opposite polarization they are made black. Therefore, say what you will, every second pixel line is black to each eye. Therefore it can not possibly be 1080p.

With the LG firmware update they put the information that would be in the black line of pixels in the none black line 1/120 of a second later, but the black line is still black. With this update LG claims all 1080 lines are there. The black lines are still there. It is not 1080p.

Watch this video www.youtube.com/watch?v=ETc3Ep3wcEk



"I strongly dispute this "Oh and its full 3D HD". This has been hashed over to the point of nausea in this forum. Therefore, I will not comment further."
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post #14 of 237 Old 03-23-2012, 07:07 AM
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Originally Posted by joed32 View Post

"I strongly dispute this "Oh and its full 3D HD". This has been hashed over to the point of nausea in this forum. Therefore, I will not comment further."

Couldn't help myself.
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post #15 of 237 Old 03-23-2012, 12:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by conan48 View Post

I believe that passive has zero ghosting as long as you are in the "sweet spot" (eye level with center of the screen). I've noticed that if you are watching slightly below or above the center of the screen, then you get some ghosting.

The sweet spot would appear to be pretty wide on this set. My brother was watching the Imax Space Station 3D BluRay from the "preferred" center seat. I popped a pair of glasses and walked around the room a bit; even from an angle of about 40-50 degrees off center I saw no ghosting and the 3D effect was still very pronounced. I also tried standing up so my eyes were a good 18 inches above the center of the screen and again no ghosting and a good 3D effect. So it doesn't look to me like everyone needs to huddle around the center of the set to get a good image on this TV.

As an aside, the shot early in Space Station of the astronaut reaching out with his gloved hand (which always looked terrible and never worked on my plasma) finally worked correctly and appeared to extend out of the screen on the 7600. There was the faintest hint of ghosting around the glove on this shot but that's not too surprising as I've even heard DLP owners experience double images with this one.
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post #16 of 237 Old 03-23-2012, 02:26 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyDP View Post

I have seen zero ghosting so far. While I haven't had a chance to try Uncharted 3 yet (I do own the game and will try to check it out; let me know if there is a specific area you're interested in) I did check out a few more scenes that would trip up my Samsung plasma:

- Selected scenes from Hugo had zero ghosting; even a scene near the end of Melies wearing a black tux with a white shirt (which was murder on the plasma) looked rock solid on the LM7600 without any double-imaging whatsoever.

- The Avatar videogame for 360 (played in side by side mode) had really bad ghosting whenever there was a closeup of a character speaking to you on the plasma; the same graphics on the LM7600 looked perfect; no double-images at all.



I've put in about two hours on the set (45 minutes in one go being the most continuous time so far) and I've had zero headaches or eyestrain. I was showing the 3D to my parents (who've never really used a 3D set) and neither reported any ill effects from watching about 15 minutes of Under the Sea.

Again, I want to stress there's nothing scientific about what I'm reporting here; just my observations of the set compared to my Samsung 3D plasma which I've owned for almost 2 1/2 years.



Thanks for the update. If the eye-strain has been reduced I can now get my wife to watch 3D with me. The 3D on these new sets sound great.
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post #17 of 237 Old 03-23-2012, 03:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ssgmun5000 View Post

Thanks for the update. If the eye-strain has been reduced I can now get my wife to watch 3D with me. The 3D on these new sets sound great.

The TV also has a setting to adjust the 3D intensity for both native 3D and 2D>3D conversion (the setting goes from 1 to 20); I have it set at 15 because I like a stronger sense of 3D but you can go lower and get a more comfortable experience given your personal tolerances.
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post #18 of 237 Old 03-23-2012, 07:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyDP View Post

The TV also has a setting to adjust the 3D intensity for both native 3D and 2D>3D conversion (the setting goes from 1 to 20); I have it set at 15 because I like a stronger sense of 3D but you can go lower and get a more comfortable experience given your personal tolerances.

Hi Tony,

Does this TV support checkerboard 3D in the 3D remote menu options?
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post #19 of 237 Old 03-23-2012, 08:25 PM
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Originally Posted by ssgmun5000 View Post


Thanks for the update. If the eye-strain has been reduced I can now get my wife to watch 3D with me. The 3D on these new sets sound great.

It really is just as described.
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post #20 of 237 Old 03-23-2012, 08:35 PM - Thread Starter
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LOL at the thread title edit. Remember it was not my opinion but the opinion of a professional reviewer.
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post #21 of 237 Old 03-24-2012, 05:58 AM
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Originally Posted by ssgmun5000 View Post

LOL at the thread title edit. Remember it was not my opinion but the opinion of a professional reviewer.

What are his credentials? I looked at his facebook page. He looks like a student that likes comic books.
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post #22 of 237 Old 03-24-2012, 06:48 AM
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Couldn't help myself.

I know, LOL. I was staying out because you were but I couldn't help myself either. Just kidding you a little bit.
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post #23 of 237 Old 03-24-2012, 07:49 AM
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I have a 2011 LG Cinema 3D set and used this crosstalk test.

My set has zero crosstalk.

Quote:


Download the file below and place it on USB stick, put the stick on TV and play it. Panasonic VT owners needs to play it from other external device (BD player) to be able to enable the 3D mode.
- Enable 3D and choose the side-by-side mode and open 3D glasses.
- In the middle of the video press pause.
- First close your right eye and write the smaller number which is visible on the top half screen and then write the smaller number which is visible on the bottom half screen
- Do the same procedure then with the left eye closed.

Example how you can answer:
3D TV model: Samsung PN50C7705 50" Plasma
3D glasses model: Samsung original battery powered.

Left eye open/right closed -> top half screen smaller visible number -> 1
Left eye open/right closed -> bottom half screen smaller visible number -> 3
Right eye open/left closed -> top half screen smaller visible number -> 3
Right eye open/left closed -> bottom half screen smaller visible number -> 1

If you can't see the top/bottom half screen you must answer:
Left eye open/right closed -> top half screen smaller visible number -> 4
Left eye open/right closed -> bottom half screen smaller visible number -> NOTHING
Right eye open/left closed -> top half screen smaller visible number -> NOTHING
Right eye open/left closed -> bottom half screen smaller visible number -> 5

With this crosstalk test we can measure how good performs each set 3d tv/3d glasses with dark bakground scenes.

The best possible results for crosstalk are:
Left eye open/right closed -> top half screen smaller visible number -> 1
Left eye open/right closed -> bottom half screen smaller visible number -> NOTHING
Right eye open/left closed -> top half screen smaller visible number -> NOTHING
Right eye open/left closed -> bottom half screen smaller visible number -> 1

http://www.box.com/shared/lpe35vy1h8
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post #24 of 237 Old 03-24-2012, 12:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skyguy3d View Post

Hi Tony,

Does this TV support checkerboard 3D in the 3D remote menu options?

Haven't tried it myself as I have no content that supports it but according to the manual checkerboard is supported via USB, DLNA, HDMI-DTV and HDMI-PC.
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post #25 of 237 Old 03-24-2012, 08:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyDP View Post

Haven't tried it myself as I have no content that supports it but according to the manual checkerboard is supported via USB, DLNA, HDMI-DTV and HDMI-PC.

Thanks, that's all I needed to know.
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post #26 of 237 Old 03-25-2012, 02:51 PM
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is there a difference in the 120hz model then the 240hz one in 3d? less pop effect or no?
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post #27 of 237 Old 03-25-2012, 03:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Robut View Post

What are his credentials? I looked at his facebook page. He looks like a student that likes comic books.

I highly doubt that's the same person. That kid probably couldn't write hundreds of articles on a highly-respected TV and camera reviews network in between rounds of beer pong.

Not that I believe him 100%, but if you're going to convince me otherwise you should try a little harder.

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post #28 of 237 Old 03-25-2012, 04:21 PM
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Originally Posted by cakefoo View Post

I highly doubt that's the same person. That kid probably couldn't write hundreds of articles on a highly-respected TV and camera reviews network in between rounds of beer pong.

Not that I believe him 100%, but if you're going to convince me otherwise you should try a little harder.

Dam! I'll work on it. I wish it was true. It was kind of funny anyway. Good to hear you don't believe him 100%.
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post #29 of 237 Old 03-28-2012, 01:53 PM
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I have been the active 3D route, eye strain, 3D glasses battery failures,and nothing but complaints from anyone watching. We finally switched over to a LG 47lw6500 240 hz passive 3D and it has been absolutely fantastic. No complaints but phrase for the passive glasses, 3D & 2D is stunning. Best buy ever. As far as the LG 82" 4K 3D TV shown, WOW, bring it on! It probably will cost a Arm & Leg no doubt. Good Job LG!
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post #30 of 237 Old 03-28-2012, 02:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Robut View Post


What are his credentials? I looked at his facebook page. He looks like a student that likes comic books.

Only credentials anyone really needs is a set of eye balls when it comes to this debate.
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