Ghosting on 3D image - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 16 Old 03-26-2012, 05:30 AM - Thread Starter
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Hello all,

I am a new member and I am looking for some advice if possible?

I have a Samsung Series 7000 55" 3D LED TV which I bought brand new in September (I am unsure of the exact model number as I'm in work just now but it begins "UE55"). It has been wall mounted in my converted garage since November and generally I can't fault it for picture quality. I have 2 Samsung LCD TVs as well as a Samsung LED PC monitor elsewhere in the house, all of which have never given me any bother which is why I opted for the Series 7000 in the first place.

The reason I am needing advice is that when watching 3D images (Sky 3D broadcasts, Blu Rays, PS3 and XBox 360 games - all are affected) there is always ghosting on the images. By ghosting I don't mean motion blur, I mean that there are faint shadows on either side of whatever image is being displayed. Forgive me if I'm stating the obvious there but I went into a Samsung dealership in Swansea to ask the same question and they got really hung up on explaining that fast moving images will always cause this effect. However they may just have been being particularly unhelpful as I got the impression they thought I was wasting their time and that if I wanted their help I should have bought the TV from them. Generally though, all my Samsung TVs (and my 42" Panasonic plasma in the living room for that matter) cope extremely well when displaying fast moving images such as football matches or games.

I have tried adjusting the 3D perspective setting in the TV options but this just seems to move the ghosting between the foreground and background images and although I can generally get a clear image in the middle distance, I can never eliminate it completely. I've also tried the 3D optimisation setting but this fails to make any difference either. I have 4 sets of active shutter glasses and they all show the same ghosting problem. Unfortunately, I have to wear normal corrective glasses so I thought perhaps it was because I was wearing the 3D glasses over the top of them but I tried wearing the 3D glasses first with my own glasses on top with no difference. I am unable to wear contact lenses.

Another problem I have with the glasses is that if you look at the top of the TV screen it seems to pulse and dim in relation to the rest of the screen approximately once every second. This is not noticeable when looking at the main picture, but if, for example, someone plays a long pass in a football match and the ball is at the top of the screen it is noticeable then. Again, all the glasses show evidence of this even after I changed the batteries. It is in addition to the normal flickering that is evident when wearing the glasses and looking at a non 3D image as this almost completely disappears when watching a 3D broadcast.

I hope I have provided enough information and hope to hear back from some of you soon, but if I've missed anything please ask.

Many thanks.

*UPDATE* I've got the TV connected wirelessly to the web and have checked for any firmware updates. It's running the latest firmware.
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post #2 of 16 Old 03-26-2012, 07:14 AM
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What you are experiencing is unfortunately a limitation of most LCD and plasma 3D systems that use active shutter glasses, especially in scenes displaying high contrast ranges such as a bright object in front of a dark background. I have a 2010 Samsung 3D plasma and experience the same thing. LCD TVs can be even more susceptible if they do not have a high refresh rate.

You can alleviate the problem somewhat by increasing the brightness and contrast settings. Tweaking th 3D Viewpoint setting from the TV menu will also help somewhat on a title by title basis.

The bottom line though is that it just is a limitation of the tech used in active shutter systems with LCD and plasma TVs. Passive sets like the newest LG models seem to have addressed this issue.
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post #3 of 16 Old 03-26-2012, 08:17 AM
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I have a 2010 Samsung un55c8000. I also use a 2011 top of the line bd-d7500 bluray player. The glasses I use are the Monstervision 3D glasses. When I switched to the player and glasses the crosstalk or ghosting was almost completely eliminated. I might see it 2-3 times during a movie. When I play games on my PS3 there is more crosstalk, but not enough to ruin the experience.

As far as flicker there is none evident on the screen.

The only adjusting I did for 3D was with the glasses and I raised the brightness 10%on the display to offset a lower setting to the duty cycle of the glasses.

The main improvement happened when I started using the Bluray player.

TonyDP is correct, in my opinion, about LG displays unless you are above or below the sweet spot, center of the screen, by more than Approx. 15 degrees.
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post #4 of 16 Old 03-26-2012, 12:39 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks very much for your advice. I did try increasing the brightness and contrast but couldn't see much difference. As a last ditch attempt I turned on game mode, set the 3D perspective to +2 and 3D optimisation to +1 and it seems to be a little better but maybe that's just me hoping.
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post #5 of 16 Old 04-02-2012, 12:12 PM
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buy passive.
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post #6 of 16 Old 04-02-2012, 12:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyDP View Post

What you are experiencing is unfortunately a limitation of most LCD and plasma 3D systems that use active shutter glasses, especially in scenes displaying high contrast ranges such as a bright object in front of a dark background. I have a 2010 Samsung 3D plasma and experience the same thing. LCD TVs can be even more susceptible if they do not have a high refresh rate.

You can alleviate the problem somewhat by increasing the brightness and contrast settings. Tweaking th 3D Viewpoint setting from the TV menu will also help somewhat on a title by title basis.

The bottom line though is that it just is a limitation of the tech used in active shutter systems with LCD and plasma TVs...

It's a display problem, not an active shutter glass problem.

People use active shutter glasses with DLP 3DTVs, and there is NO ghosting or crosstalk. LCDs are the worst for crosstalk, especially older models, as their pixel speeds are the lowest. All one can do is make the recommened adjustments. Unfortunately, passive has its own drawbacks, and can show ghosting as well.

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post #7 of 16 Old 04-02-2012, 12:41 PM
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Originally Posted by sje3156 View Post

buy passive.

WTF? That's about as useful as:

Go Cubs!

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post #8 of 16 Old 04-02-2012, 05:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Augerhandle View Post

It's a display problem, not an active shutter glass problem.

People use active shutter glasses with DLP 3DTVs, and there is NO ghosting or crosstalk. LCDs are the worst for crosstalk, especially older models, as their pixel speeds are the lowest. All one can do is make the recommened adjustments. Unfortunately, passive has its own drawbacks, and can show ghosting as well.

Please read my post more closely. I said, and I quote... "LCD and plasma 3D systems that use active shutter glasses"

Also, LCDs that use passive technology like the new LM series have virtually zero crosstalk. I own one and can personally attest to that.
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post #9 of 16 Old 04-02-2012, 05:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyDP View Post

Please read my post more closely. I said, and I quote... "LCD and plasma 3D systems that use active shutter glasses"

Also, LCDs that use passive technology like the new LM series have virtually zero crosstalk. I own one and can personally attest to that.

And my active shutter DLP has NO crosstalk.

Crosstalk is a function of the display, where the opposite eye view is seen by the other eye because of some defect of the display, whether parallax error in passive, or slow pixel response in active. (ignoring faulty glasses, which can be replaced in either system, as the display shows these defects even with properly operating glasses). It doesn't occur with DLPs because pixel speeds are so much faster.

In other words, crosstalk is not caused by using an active shutter system.

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post #10 of 16 Old 04-03-2012, 05:26 AM
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I'm glad DLP works for you. For me it is too bulky and heavy and the active glasses darken the image too much for my liking (not to mention having to deal with batteries and synch failures). Given what I need out of a TV this generation of passive is more than good enough and I'll happily take a set that is ghost free 99.9% of the time to get the benefits of a brighter, lighter, lower maintenance and to my eyes sharper display.
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post #11 of 16 Old 04-03-2012, 07:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyDP View Post

I'm glad DLP works for you. For me it is too bulky and heavy and the active glasses darken the image too much for my liking (not to mention having to deal with batteries and synch failures). Given what I need out of a TV this generation of passive is more than good enough and I'll happily take a set that is ghost free 99.9% of the time to get the benefits of a brighter, lighter, lower maintenance and to my eyes sharper display.

More of the same ol' wives tales? Maybe you should check the actual facts before dismissing something so lightly. Inch for inch, DLPs weigh less than most flatscreens of the same size. The 65" LG weighs in at over 103 lb! My 65" DLP weighs 74 lb in comparison. It is not bulky or heavy at all. Your LG passive is only 55" and costs more than an 82" DLP. these are facts, not someone's bloated opinion.

As you have stated in another post, your active Samsung exhibited ghosting and the cheap glasses failed to sync and were too dark for your taste. Samsung support also disappointed you.

One shouldn't base an opinion on an entire tech based on a bad experience with one manufacturer. And one should wait a year or so before claiming lower maintenance on their set. Time will tell the tale. I've had my set for years, and it still calibrates to better than industry standards, with a picture as good as the day it was delivered. That's not opinion, it is measured scientific fact.

I hope you enjoy your LG, but one shouldn't go spouting off about things they don't understand.

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post #12 of 16 Old 04-03-2012, 07:18 AM
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I really don't know where you get your info. I can lift my 55" LG with one hand and it only extends a couple of inches from my wall; kind of hard to do that with a DLP and that is not some old wives tale.

I don't understand your rant about 3D glasses. Yes I own both Samsung and Xpand 103 models (hardly cheap) but my point was that passive glasses are brighter and more low maintenance. As someone who owns both types of tech (do you?) I think I can comment on that. Again that is a fact not a wives tale.

We're obviously not going to agree here as our respective techs don't appeal to each other. You enjoy your TV and I'll enjoy mine.
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post #13 of 16 Old 04-03-2012, 08:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyDP View Post

I really don't know where you get your info. I can lift my 55" LG with one hand and it only extends a couple of inches from my wall; kind of hard to do that with a DLP

Apples and oranges. There are no DLPs that small.

Fact: One can check the specs online, a 65" LG weighs 103 lb vs a 65" DLP which weighs only 74 lb. No unscientific "I can lift mine with one hand" BS. How far a TV sits from a wall has nothing to do with picture quality (other than it looks bigger and better closer to the viewer) Besides, one's Cable/Sat Box, Bluray player, and AVR sit 20" from the wall in a cabinet anyway, and most TVs come with a stand to sit on that same cabinet.
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I don't understand your rant about 3D glasses. Yes I own both Samsung and Xpand models (hardly cheap) but my point was that passive glasses are brighter and more low maintenance. As someone who owns both types of tech I think I can comment on that.

We're obviously not going to agree here as our respective techs don't appeal to each other. You enjoy your TVs and I'll enjoy mine.

I didn't rant. I corrected your obviously biased post. I used my personal experience with DLP to counter your BS about active systems. As for passive tech vs active tech, meh. I watch passive 3D in the theater. I watch active at home, for numerous reasons that have nothing to do with the OP's question.

In the end, your post did nothing to help the OP, who already owns an active system and isn't in the market for passive. Your post was no more helpful to him than the useless post "buy passive".

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post #14 of 16 Old 04-03-2012, 09:40 AM
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At least I offered some constructive advice in my original post whereas you seemed to be more concerned with showing that you know more than anyone else and derailing yet another thread. Sadly there is only so much that can be done with that type of TV.

I'm sure you'll have to reply as you obviously always have to have the last word. Go right ahead as this thread has run its course anyway and no one else seems interested. I have nothing more to say about this topic or to you.
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post #15 of 16 Old 04-03-2012, 02:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyDP View Post

At least I offered some constructive advice in my original post whereas you seemed to be more concerned with showing that you know more than anyone else and derailing yet another thread. Sadly there is only so much that can be done with that type of TV.

I'm sure you'll have to reply as you obviously always have to have the last word. Go right ahead as this thread has run its course anyway and no one else seems interested. I have nothing more to say about this topic or to you.

I think all the guy was saying is don't knock an entire technology, because you had a bad experience with one manufacturer. He is not saying passive is bad, he is just saying not all active is bad.
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post #16 of 16 Old 04-03-2012, 02:44 PM
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Passive 3D is the same as what's in the theater, and I am never impressed when I see a 3D movie at the theater. I've chosen active 3D for the higher resolution, even if it is more susceptible to crosstalk. I'm actually used to crosstalk because I own a Nintendo 3DS, you don't have to move much for the image to go out of whack.
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