Ghosting on 65VT50 - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 23 Old 05-13-2012, 01:01 PM - Thread Starter
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The VT50 is a great TV but I'm noticing a degree of ghosting on my 65VT50 that is not tolerable. It reminds me of the first Samsung plasma 3D TV that I purchased in 2010. Because of ghosting, I sold my 2010 and got a 2011 Samsung. Samsung did a great job of cleaning up the ghosting on the 2011 to where it was not worth mentioning but the other thing that I did not like was the too dim 3D image. That's why I got the VT50. The ghosting on my VT50 is very close to the 2010 Samsung and I am surprised to say the least. I figured they too would have had it licked.

Ghosting to this extent draws me out of enjoying the nice picture on the VT50and I'm begining to have a bit of remorse. Just like the 2010 Samsung, you can dial it out in one scene only to find it in another scene. A good movie to test it is Monsters vs. Aliens as I know exactly where to look for instances. I was also watching Underworld Awakening 3D and found quite a few scenes with ghosting. Good 3D is important to me and so I posted this in this forum cause I know in the plasma TV forum it would probably get dissected unfairly on this one point alone.

Anyone else having a haunted house with their VT50?
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post #2 of 23 Old 05-13-2012, 02:08 PM
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Hey! Thanks for posting! I was waiting for a testimony on this set. Can you please run this test? http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1291751
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post #3 of 23 Old 05-13-2012, 04:56 PM - Thread Starter
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This is what I got. Not good I see.

jbugs Panasonic 65VT50 active-rechargeable glasses
Left eye open/right closed -> top half screen smaller visible number -1
Left eye open/right closed -> bottom half screen smaller visible number -8
Right eye open/left closed -> top half screen smaller visible number -3
Right eye open/left closed -> bottom half screen smaller visible number -1
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post #4 of 23 Old 05-13-2012, 08:15 PM
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That's total BS from Panasonic if you ask me. It's no different (if not worse) than first generation 3D plasmas from Panasonic. I guess I should go with a BenQ W7000 DLP projector this year.
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post #5 of 23 Old 05-13-2012, 11:36 PM
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Have you tried 3d in 48hz mode? This is only an option for 24fps content, but it does, indeed, reduce crosstalk somewhat, as I can attest to this from seeing the ST30 last year. However, the flickering in this mode in brighter scenes, at least on the ST30, made it unwatchable for me.

Alas, someone in the UT50 owners thread mentioned they didn't notice flickering in this mode and it made a significant difference in reducing the amount of crosstalk they saw, so maybe the flickering is tolerable for some people in this year's panasonic plasmas... who knows?

Obviously, Panasonic's focus is on 2d picture quality, and understandably so, since that will generate far more sales and interest than an improved 3d picture would at this point in time. Really sucks for those of us who detest even the slightest bit of crosstalk and prefer plasma to, say, this year's passive LG's or a DLP setup.

Anyway, though, it really is surprising they couldn't at least improve crosstalk to compare to Samsung's plasmas!
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post #6 of 23 Old 05-14-2012, 08:03 AM - Thread Starter
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I'll give it a go at 48hz and see. Panasonic's menu for 3D controls doesn't even shrink to the slider position at the bottom of the screen so you can see what the heck you are doing when trying to adjust the double image. That is pretty lame as you instead have to go in and out of the menu to see if your adjustment worked or you need to go in the opposite direction.
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post #7 of 23 Old 05-15-2012, 06:32 AM - Thread Starter
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QSilver2, 48hz was indeed the answer. Thanks for posting that information, thanks a lot.
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post #8 of 23 Old 05-15-2012, 08:47 AM
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jbug, can you run the test again on 48 Hz?
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post #9 of 23 Old 05-15-2012, 08:51 AM - Thread Starter
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I was thinking about doing that yesterday but I wound up going through those same movies to check for ghosting which to my relief was 99% absent. I'll do it this evening and post the results.
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post #10 of 23 Old 05-15-2012, 05:42 PM - Thread Starter
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jbugs Panasonic 65VT50 active-rechargeable glasses
Left eye open/right closed -> top half screen smaller visible number -1
Left eye open/right closed -> bottom half screen smaller visible number -8
Right eye open/left closed -> top half screen smaller visible number -2
Right eye open/left closed -> bottom half screen smaller visible number -1

The numbers are basically the same. Had my wife do the test also. Just what does that 8 mean?
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post #11 of 23 Old 05-15-2012, 10:05 PM
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That means that in reality crosstalk didn't get any better. Did you make sure you had that 48 hz mode working?
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post #12 of 23 Old 05-16-2012, 11:02 AM - Thread Starter
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I'm sure it was but I'll recheck it this evening when I get home.

Update: Unable to switch when watching the test as the hz selector is grayed out.
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post #13 of 23 Old 05-17-2012, 07:13 AM
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So is the 48hz mode acceptable on the 65" VT50? Flicker not an issue? and other benefits to 48hz mode like better motion in 3D. Also, can you activate the motion smoother in 3D?
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post #14 of 23 Old 05-17-2012, 07:30 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by conan48 View Post

So is the 48hz mode acceptable on the 65" VT50? Flicker not an issue? and other benefits to 48hz mode like better motion in 3D. Also, can you activate the motion smoother in 3D?

I noticed no flicker at all using 48hz for 3D and as I found out 48hz is the way to go for 3D. I'm at work now but I'm pretty sure that motion smoother can be activated. I'm pretty sure cause when I was watching Beauty & The Beast 3D BD, I noticed on a camera pan that some of the faces in the background were blurred and doubled. Motion smoother did not eliminate that so I turned it back off.
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post #15 of 23 Old 05-17-2012, 07:50 AM
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I was at a shop today and run the test above on a 50ST50. I was given a pair of Samsung bluetooth active shutter glasses. The results are strange. While viewing through the left eye the numbers for the right eye were all pretty dark unlike on my GT25. Hovewer they were still visible, the threshold of visibility was around 20. BUT, while viewing through the right eye the image was like you was still looking through the left eye, i.e. the picture for the left eye was more visible than the picture for the right eye (which was still visible up to number 1 but was in different color). I think it's a compatibility bug with samsung glasses. So, jbug, I believe VT50 must do better job than your set does.

Here's some test picture for eye-measuring crosstalk (from Mass Effect 3) http://clck.ru/d/GoZQ0Ex415Ahv
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post #16 of 23 Old 05-17-2012, 05:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbug View Post

I noticed no flicker at all using 48hz for 3D and as I found out 48hz is the way to go for 3D. I'm at work now but I'm pretty sure that motion smoother can be activated. I'm pretty sure cause when I was watching Beauty & The Beast 3D BD, I noticed on a camera pan that some of the faces in the background were blurred and doubled. Motion smoother did not eliminate that so I turned it back off.

That's good news, so you didint notice any flicker? When I put my vt30 into 48hz I got a lot of flicker when it was a bright scene.
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post #17 of 23 Old 05-19-2012, 08:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adamd View Post


That's good news, so you didint notice any flicker? When I put my vt30 into 48hz I got a lot of flicker when it was a bright scene.

I'm the guy that posted in the UT50 thread about this,the 48hz in 3d doesn't flicker as bad as in 2d or for some at all and it pretty much gets rid of all minor crosstalk and makes the 3d very acceptable. You can also try setting your players 24p on or off in conjunction with the tv's 48hz to see what works best for you. I have found there is a difference in the refresh rate between 2d and 3d pointing a digital camera and viewing it that way.
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post #18 of 23 Old 06-27-2012, 12:30 PM
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I believe the VT50 will display 3D at 96hz - it's one of the selling points over the ST50 and GT50 series that display 3D at 48hz.

Theoretically 96hz should reduce both flicker and crosstalk over 48hz. 48hz (or any 24hz sampling) will typically reduce crosstalk compared to 60hz. 60hz, whether created in the deck or the tv, has to have some sort of pull-down or frame/field interpolation going on to display 24p source material - and all the methods of displaying 24p source material at 60hz are likely to increase crosstalk.

Also, for the best quality 96hz or 48hz playback remember to make sure your blu-ray deck output is set to 24p (or 24hz on some systems). Otherwise, the deck is adding pull-down (60hz fields) to the imagery and the TV has to process ("reverse telecine") the decks output to get the footage back to 24p (24hz) before it can display as 48hz or 96hz. The extra detecting/processing from the TV is not always flawless and can be prone to hiccups, and in 3D every hiccup means more crosstalk.

Until the 3D R/L eye refresh rate (different than the TV's "Hz" refresh rate) is above 140 crosstalk, particularly in higher-contrast scenes, will be a potential issue. (Most active 3D theatrical systems are running a 144 R/L eye refresh rate which is why you see less ghosting there.)
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post #19 of 23 Old 07-04-2012, 09:33 AM
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50VT50, watched Toy Story 3 in 3D last night using CNET's settings (except color temp normal) , in 48hz mode, and the PQ was the best I have ever seen in a television, 3D and 2D. Stunning. No cross talk, perfect color, inky blacks. Thank you panasonic
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post #20 of 23 Old 07-04-2012, 09:34 AM
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oops meant 55VT50
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post #21 of 23 Old 07-10-2012, 04:23 PM
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So this issue is from 65" model only?!

Something isn't right for sure!

[]s,
Fernando
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post #22 of 23 Old 07-31-2012, 06:08 PM
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Is this ghosting on just 3D or on regular TV?

Reason I ask is currently have a 70" Sharp Quattron LED that has horrible ghosting/halo effect on sports and I thought this TV would have none of that.

I am returning the Sharp this week and either ordering this tv or the Samsung 65" 8000.

Any feedback wold be great.
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post #23 of 23 Old 08-02-2012, 01:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by falconman515 View Post

Is this ghosting on just 3D or on regular TV?
Reason I ask is currently have a 70" Sharp Quattron LED that has horrible ghosting/halo effect on sports and I thought this TV would have none of that.
I am returning the Sharp this week and either ordering this tv or the Samsung 65" 8000.
Any feedback wold be great.
Don't mix up ghosting and blooming. Google it.
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