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post #91 of 250 Old 05-29-2012, 06:25 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gosugadget View Post

Frank, everything you said about passive 3D vs active are my sentiments precisely. But regarding these two posts you made. Might I point out that the support from friends and family might be due to them wanting to receive your old (But still new) sets?

Quite frankly, NO.
They have complained about the active glasses for the last three years.

Quote:
Also, I have one question. If a movie is played at 29-30 fps, then the active 1080p per eye argument vs passive's 540p per eye is invalid? Please elaborate.

I would but I don't know what you're referring to.

Did IQ's suddenly drop sharply while I was away?
I enjoy 3D in spite of HDMI 1.4!
Full screen only 3D doesn't cut it!
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post #92 of 250 Old 05-29-2012, 11:47 AM
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Would be great if Mitsubishi made 92"+ Passive 3D DLP TV
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post #93 of 250 Old 05-29-2012, 10:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank View Post

Quite frankly, NO.
They have complained about the active glasses for the last three years.


I would but I don't know what you're referring to.

People have been claiming active is better because of its ability to show 1080p per eye vs 540p per eye with passive. Are you saying this advantage disappears when 3D video is shown above 24 fps?
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post #94 of 250 Old 05-29-2012, 10:42 PM
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I think his point (please correct me where I've misunderstood Frank) was that 1080p is unnecessary given color depth compression, and that 720p60fps is in many ways better than 1080p24fps. The first point has some truth, but I think the difference between 720p and 1080p is quite obvious given good content and a big enough screen. The second point is true, but kind of irrelevant unless you actually have the option to choose between 720p60fps and 1080p24fps (for PC games you do, for Blu-rays you don't).

Frankly, I think Frank doesn't want to admit there's a compromise for the benefits of passive.

EDIT: And sorry for the above pun. How many lame "frankly Frank" jokes has Frank had to endure over the years?
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post #95 of 250 Old 05-29-2012, 10:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Airion View Post

EDIT: And sorry for the above pun. How many lame "frankly Frank" jokes has Frank had to endure over the years?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank View Post

Quite frankly, NO.

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post #96 of 250 Old 05-29-2012, 11:20 PM
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LOL, nice catch Elix. It's the five stages of grief: denial, anger, bargaining, depression, and finally acceptance.
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post #97 of 250 Old 05-30-2012, 04:10 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Airion View Post

I think his point (please correct me where I've misunderstood Frank) was that 1080p is unnecessary given color depth compression, and that 720p60fps is in many ways better than 1080p24fps.

720p is better in that it doesn't require the excruciatingly slow pans and slow shutter speeds that 1080P24 does.
Slow shutter speeds result in a significant reduction in the resolution when there is any motion.
Keep in mind that with passive, you are not really cutting the vertical resolution in half if you consider that the effective resolution has to be reduced from the original 1080 to much less in order to prevent artifacts like aliasing and moire patterns and to make it more compressible.
Thus in theory you might be reducing the effective resolution from 650 to 540 not 1080 to 540.

I'm more then willing to accept the small reduction in vertical resolution to make my 3D watching a pleasure again.
I'm really looking forward to never hearing complaints about active shutter glasses again also.

Did IQ's suddenly drop sharply while I was away?
I enjoy 3D in spite of HDMI 1.4!
Full screen only 3D doesn't cut it!
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post #98 of 250 Old 05-31-2012, 05:35 AM - Thread Starter
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Here is a YouTube video I made showing me playing around for the last time with my PN63C7000 Samsung using the dreaded active glasses.
Since it's replacement LG 65" passive set will be here in a few days I thought I would play around with it a bit before pulling it down.
bye bye active 3D!

Did IQ's suddenly drop sharply while I was away?
I enjoy 3D in spite of HDMI 1.4!
Full screen only 3D doesn't cut it!
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post #99 of 250 Old 05-31-2012, 11:08 AM
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The "YouTube video" link above takes me to a dead link Nike sale. Is this a joke (hence the ), or an indication that you eyes have given in to all that ceaseles flickering? The actual link to the video is "bye bye active 3D!".
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post #100 of 250 Old 05-31-2012, 11:26 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markr041 View Post

The "YouTube video" link above takes me to a dead link Nike sale. Is this a joke (hence the ), or an indication that you eyes have given in to all that ceaseles flickering? The actual link to the video is "bye bye active 3D!".

http://youtu.be/1mY_wgc2w7k?hd=1

Did IQ's suddenly drop sharply while I was away?
I enjoy 3D in spite of HDMI 1.4!
Full screen only 3D doesn't cut it!
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post #101 of 250 Old 05-31-2012, 04:05 PM
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Frank and THe flash, please post your impressions of the 2D quality of the 65LM6200 in this thread

There are many like me who are seriously considering this model and would benefit from your reviews.

Insert pithy comment here
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post #102 of 250 Old 05-31-2012, 04:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank View Post

Perhaps you all could have circular polarizers laser engraved onto your pupils?

Perhaps.

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post #103 of 250 Old 05-31-2012, 08:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RiverSide View Post

Frank and THe flash, please post your impressions of the 2D quality of the 65LM6200 in this thread

There are many like me who are seriously considering this model and would benefit from your reviews.

Will do. The set arrived today, and I was only able to play with it for a few hours prior to heading out. I'll be at the Philly Comic Con all weekend but will post some impressions when I get back next week. I have the Disney WoW disc that I will use for calibration and feel like my opinions will be a little more valid once I've gone through that process with the television.

Unrelated to quality, I am a bit underwhelmed by the size difference going from a 52" to a 65". Not as big of a jump as I would have liked.
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post #104 of 250 Old 05-31-2012, 11:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by [Irishman] View Post


Perhaps.

I got this really cool laser kit, perhaps I could perform the surgery.

Also Frank do you have one of those head mounted 3d things too?
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post #105 of 250 Old 06-01-2012, 03:41 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RiverSide View Post

Frank and THe flash, please post your impressions of the 2D quality of the 65LM6200 in this thread

There are many like me who are seriously considering this model and would benefit from your reviews.

I can do that of course keep in mind that I will be using mine in a substantially different way then most everyone else.
If you watched the 3D YouTube video I posted up earlier you will see where it will be going early next week when it arrives.
I'm going to try to temporarily stand it adjacent to the Samsung PN63C7000 and view the same live and recorded 3D content on both at the same time so we can all judge it together. My main interest will be in seeing how it performs as a large 3D computer monitor.

Did IQ's suddenly drop sharply while I was away?
I enjoy 3D in spite of HDMI 1.4!
Full screen only 3D doesn't cut it!
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post #106 of 250 Old 06-02-2012, 08:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank View Post

NO
It's not a secret though.
I anyone really wanted to know I would certainly attempt to explain it.

I sure do. I followed your advise and got a passive display for 3D reviewing and editing. I can't find the way to get it to display 3D in re-sizable windows, and I can't get 3D out of it at all unless I put the TV into 3D mode. I would love to read your methods and settings.
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post #107 of 250 Old 06-03-2012, 12:17 PM
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I also will be very interested in the results of your tests for both 2D and 3D modes.
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post #108 of 250 Old 06-04-2012, 02:03 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by walford View Post

I also will be very interested in the results of your tests for both 2D and 3D modes.

While I'm waiting for my 65" LG passive to show up I started playing around with my LG 23 inch passive monitor and made this interesting video.
I put 3D glasses on my JVC 3D camcorder and pointed it at the passive monitor.
3D video of 3D monitor in 3D
The monitor was not in 3D mode by the way. Didn't stop it from displaying multiple windows in 3D now did it?
Stereoscopic player was set to output in row interlaced mode.
The quality took a hit from the interaction of the polarized glasses with the camcorder optics but not as much as I feared.

Did IQ's suddenly drop sharply while I was away?
I enjoy 3D in spite of HDMI 1.4!
Full screen only 3D doesn't cut it!
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post #109 of 250 Old 06-04-2012, 07:40 PM
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That's pretty weird.. "Yo dawg, I heard you like 3D..."

Reminds me of the photos in Avatar, that Sigourney Weaver's character had pinned up everywhere.

Welcome to Rivendell, Mister Anderson.
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post #110 of 250 Old 06-06-2012, 11:38 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jedi2016 View Post

That's pretty weird.. "Yo dawg, I heard you like 3D..."


Reminds me of the photos in Avatar, that Sigourney Weaver's character had pinned up everywhere.

I like 3D MY WAY! wink.gifNot the industry standard way. tongue.gif

Did IQ's suddenly drop sharply while I was away?
I enjoy 3D in spite of HDMI 1.4!
Full screen only 3D doesn't cut it!
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post #111 of 250 Old 06-07-2012, 12:10 PM
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Frank, I'm still having no luck getting a row interleaved mode to give 3D in resizable windows on my passive TV. I try that output setting in Stereoscopic Player and get one eye dark and the other eye OK, but that's not 3D. Maybe your video card control panel settings are different from mine. Could you report them if not divine what I'm doing wrong?
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post #112 of 250 Old 06-07-2012, 12:19 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TrickMcKaha View Post

Frank, I'm still having no luck getting a row interleaved mode to give 3D in resizable windows on my passive TV. I try that output setting in Stereoscopic Player and get one eye dark and the other eye OK, but that's not 3D. Maybe your video card control panel settings are different from mine. Could you report them if not divine what I'm doing wrong?
Is the television in 2D mode or 3D mode?
Is all scaling disabled and the resolution set to 1920 by 1080 @ 60 hertz?

Did IQ's suddenly drop sharply while I was away?
I enjoy 3D in spite of HDMI 1.4!
Full screen only 3D doesn't cut it!
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post #113 of 250 Old 06-07-2012, 12:39 PM
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I'm likely too late but....

I will gladly assist with removal of active 3D tech from homes.

biggrin.gif
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post #114 of 250 Old 06-07-2012, 01:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank View Post

Is the television in 2D mode or 3D mode?
Is all scaling disabled and the resolution set to 1920 by 1080 @ 60 hertz?

Did try resolution at 1080 60p no scaling in the video card control panel, which of course is not a "3D" setting. Then (I think) I tried with the TV in 2D mode, and (if I remember correctly), 3D mode was not available. Does your video card "think" it is sending output to an HDMI 1.4 display? Mine does. I have been using NVidea 3D Vision, and I had not used that driver to send interlaced output ever before. I'm wondering if there is anywhere in your video card control panel that you tell it to output interlaced (or interleaved) signals... other than in Stereoscopic Player.
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post #115 of 250 Old 06-07-2012, 01:13 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TrickMcKaha View Post

Did try resolution at 1080 60p no scaling in the video card control panel, which of course is not a "3D" setting. Then (I think) I tried with the TV in 2D mode, and (if I remember correctly), 3D mode was not available. Does your video card "think" it is sending output to an HDMI 1.4 display? Mine does. I have been using NVidea 3D Vision, and I had not used that driver to send interlaced output ever before. I'm wondering if there is anywhere in your video card control panel that you tell it to output interlaced (or interleaved) signals... other than in Stereoscopic Player.
It works with any of my computers including all of my laptops with no HDMI 1.4 anything support.
I wonder if perhaps 3D vision being enabled might be the problem.

Did IQ's suddenly drop sharply while I was away?
I enjoy 3D in spite of HDMI 1.4!
Full screen only 3D doesn't cut it!
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post #116 of 250 Old 06-07-2012, 01:18 PM - Thread Starter
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Technically the output is not interlaced. It's 60P not 60I and is interleaved.

Did IQ's suddenly drop sharply while I was away?
I enjoy 3D in spite of HDMI 1.4!
Full screen only 3D doesn't cut it!
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post #117 of 250 Old 06-07-2012, 01:53 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TrickMcKaha View Post

Did try resolution at 1080 60p no scaling in the video card control panel, which of course is not a "3D" setting. Then (I think) I tried with the TV in 2D mode, and (if I remember correctly), 3D mode was not available. Does your video card "think" it is sending output to an HDMI 1.4 display? Mine does. I have been using NVidea 3D Vision, and I had not used that driver to send interlaced output ever before. I'm wondering if there is anywhere in your video card control panel that you tell it to output interlaced (or interleaved) signals... other than in Stereoscopic Player.
You didn't mention is the television has the scaling (overscan) disabled or if it even can be disabled. If it can't then that's the problem I'm afraid.

Did IQ's suddenly drop sharply while I was away?
I enjoy 3D in spite of HDMI 1.4!
Full screen only 3D doesn't cut it!
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post #118 of 250 Old 06-07-2012, 03:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Hampton View Post

I'm likely too late but....
I will gladly assist with removal of active 3D tech from homes.
biggrin.gif

You're to late and why do you feel the need to do that? To each his own and leave it alone. Be happy with what you have.
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post #119 of 250 Old 06-07-2012, 08:05 PM
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Hey Frank- I agree with you for different reasons. I don't need 3D in a window but do love my passive Vizio for working all day editing and never getting fatigued. I have active 3D in my HT and I can watch it for about 2 hours max but after that my eyes get tired. While I enjoy a good 3D movie on my Sony projector at 110" diag screen size, given a choice I would prefer a passive glasses. Unfortunately passive projectors, IMO suck for quality and are over priced unless you go with the big systems used at the theaters.

I doubt I will upgrade the Sony 90ES to a Passive anytime soon as the cost and quality of those is not here yet. So the largest panel size I could fit on my wall behind the roll down screen is a 65" panel. I like the LG 65" 4K LED 3D panel I saw at CES and just waiting for those to come down in price. Maybe next year. The Picture quality of the 4K passive is just stunning compared to what we have today on 2K, especially since the passive 3D technology cuts resolution.

I have looked at the few passive glasses projector systems but they are very expensive and I have not been impressed by the picture quality as they seem really washed out.

The one negative I find with any of the passive technology panels is the vertical viewing range being really limited. Horizontal viewing off center also has some distortion. I get none of this with my active glasses. I can even watch active glasses screen lying on my side with one eye above the other.

For those who crave the auto stereo or glasses free screens, I have a small one here on my 3D camcorder and that works fine. I've seen the very expensive 30: screens from Sony and a couple others but all auto stereo screens require you keep your head still because if you move the 3D will jump on and off. They are working on cameras to track your eyes position and adjust the screen accordingly but this technology today requires a setup to make work right. Not ready for prime time. Auto stereo is really a one person viewing system for now. Plus that one person must remain still.

My only disagreement with your choice is that you should be waiting for the 4K LG panels.
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post #120 of 250 Old 06-08-2012, 03:53 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Don Landis View Post

Hey Frank- I agree with you for different reasons. I don't need 3D in a window but do love my passive Vizio for working all day editing and never getting fatigued. I have active 3D in my HT and I can watch it for about 2 hours max but after that my eyes get tired. While I enjoy a good 3D movie on my Sony projector at 110" diag screen size, given a choice I would prefer a passive glasses. Unfortunately passive projectors, IMO suck for quality and are over priced unless you go with the big systems used at the theaters.
I doubt I will upgrade the Sony 90ES to a Passive anytime soon as the cost and quality of those is not here yet. So the largest panel size I could fit on my wall behind the roll down screen is a 65" panel. I like the LG 65" 4K LED 3D panel I saw at CES and just waiting for those to come down in price. Maybe next year. The Picture quality of the 4K passive is just stunning compared to what we have today on 2K, especially since the passive 3D technology cuts resolution.
I have looked at the few passive glasses projector systems but they are very expensive and I have not been impressed by the picture quality as they seem really washed out.
The one negative I find with any of the passive technology panels is the vertical viewing range being really limited. Horizontal viewing off center also has some distortion. I get none of this with my active glasses. I can even watch active glasses screen lying on my side with one eye above the other.
For those who crave the auto stereo or glasses free screens, I have a small one here on my 3D camcorder and that works fine. I've seen the very expensive 30: screens from Sony and a couple others but all auto stereo screens require you keep your head still because if you move the 3D will jump on and off. They are working on cameras to track your eyes position and adjust the screen accordingly but this technology today requires a setup to make work right. Not ready for prime time. Auto stereo is really a one person viewing system for now. Plus that one person must remain still.
My only disagreement with your choice is that you should be waiting for the 4K LG panels.


With me, image quality is definitely not the number one priority.
As I have stated over and over again, full screen only 3D doesn't cut it and never will.
The upcoming 4k passive panels very likely will only display 3D full screen making them worthless
to me.
I badly want a Windows 3D capable desktop on my 8 foot wide theater screen but there is no way I know to do it except the dual passive method I described earlier.

Did IQ's suddenly drop sharply while I was away?
I enjoy 3D in spite of HDMI 1.4!
Full screen only 3D doesn't cut it!
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