After three years of 3D my conclusion is - Page 9 - AVS Forum
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post #241 of 250 Old 02-09-2013, 10:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Joseph Clark View Post

20 thousand hours, perhaps a lot more, without changing colors, without significant dimming, self calibrating, the light source can be stowed away from the projector itself (so the projector itself is very small and very quiet), bright enough for 11 foot wide screens, 4K passive 3D for each eye at up to 60 progressive fps/eye. On paper, it's awesome, but I need to see it, so I'll make the trek from the Midwest if I have to. smile.gif But there's no telling how long it will take to get here. It could be a year, or more. We just don't know.

That does sound great on paper and with 20k hours that takes a little hurt out of the price tag... I am assuming silver screen necessary for the passive?

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post #242 of 250 Old 02-10-2013, 07:37 AM
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Yes, it needs a special screen for the passive 3D, so my HP screen would have to go into storage. That's why I'd have to see it in person, with lots of test materials, to make sure that things like ghosting and contrast were acceptable. If it couldn't outperform my Epson 6010 in both those areas, it wouldn't be worth it.

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post #243 of 250 Old 02-10-2013, 08:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Joseph Clark View Post

I like my LG LM7600 better for 3D movies than my Samsung 64" D7000. If I get far enough back, I don't notice the LG's jaggies very much, and the brightness absolutely obliterates the Samsung. In 2D, the contrast and black level of the Samsung make it hands down better IMO, but in 3D the LG pulls way ahead. The brightness difference is huge in terms of the quality of the 3D experience. That translates into an image with more "pop" and depth than what I see with the Samsung. This really surprised me.

Don,

I use my LG mostly for 3D editing, and in Edius the small 3D preview window (as well as the double-click full screen version) are in 3D if I have line interleave mode set. I have to invert the glasses, but they're so light and comfortable that it doesn't make a lot of difference if they're on upside down or not. biggrin.gif I don't even have to switch the TV to 3D mode. It's instantaneously available. Very sweet. My JVC software (MediaBrowser 3D) also works the same way (but no need to flip the glasses upside down). I go to full screen and the clips play in 3D without a hint of hesitation (again, no need to switch to 3D mode on the LG). It sounds like it wouldn't be a big deal, but it's so easy and convenient. In contrast, switching my older Samsung active display was a royal pain in the butt. Having the passive set makes a world of difference when I'm editing. I'm still indebted to Frank for encouraging me to go ahead and buy it. The JVC software even works with Panasonic Z10k clips. However, I have to watch them as raw MTS files, and not convert them to m2ts with the Panasonic software. As m2ts files, they won't play anymore. 99.99% of the time my clips are small, so I have no need to convert them. I use the JVC software to watch all my 3D clips, both JVC and Panasonic. And whether they're 60i, or 24p, they seem to play back very cleanly on the LG. That makes it easy to check camera motion and identify bad shots. I love this display!

Joe- you are correct that Line interleave requires a flip of the left and right polar to work. I never bothered to try and understand why but in Vegas Pro you can set this attribute for Line interleave and save the vegas default veg file so it will always come up flipped on the display when you select Line Interleave. In other software they may do this automatically. In my Power Director, it is automatic and hidden behind the scenes. But as I said in Vegas you need to select that monitor and then set the flip Left and right check box. No need to turn your glasses upside down smile.gif

I first discovered Line Interleave when I had trouble displaying 3D in Power Director. By accident I tried it and it worked, reported this back to their tech support rep as he was trying to figure out why I couldn't display 3D at that time. With Power Director, the term Line interleave was hidden so the trick I had to discover was to view the Vizio in 2D to watch 3D. Who would have thought? LOL! Later Frank suggested I try it with Vegas Pro too and then I discovered the additional image quality Line Interleave offered over the Vegas T/B or SBS half outputs. It wasn't until I saw Joe Kane's data in November that I really understood why. His work was pretty enlightening and blows all these "full HD passive theorists" out of the water, including Samsung and LG who had to drop their ad campaign after seeing Joe's work.
You are quite correct that the overall image quality of 3D Passive offers many advantages and only if you are an HD resolution purist will you prefer active. ( BTW- Joe Kane is a fan of active because he is a resolution purist as far as personal viewing is concerned.) But he is first to suggest that the LCD/LED at 4K will be the best of all worlds for 3D passive when viewing the current 2K 3D content. When we have Ultra HD 3D content then were back to active again for the best. ( Note when I use the term best of all worlds, it means all things considered including eye comfort and screen size.)

I will replace my 32" editing monitor here when I see 32" 4K passive 3D made available. I might be able to squeeze a 42" in my work station but prefer the 32"
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post #244 of 250 Old 02-10-2013, 08:33 AM
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Joe- Are you going to NAB? I expect to see this RED projector at NAB if they are ready. Sometimes they don't permit video but I'll try to shoot some 3D of the screen. Do you know I developed a polar filter for my camera that preserves the 3D of passive monitors? See my you tube channel for examples. The last passive projector system I saw did not have very good contrast at all. I'd bet my old Kloss Novabeam had better contrast. biggrin.gif
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post #245 of 250 Old 02-10-2013, 03:59 PM
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Hehe. Even when 4K comes out. If theres the option i will still chose active. Because if i pay +£30 for 4K movie, ill want to see the full resolution on my 85in screen. It just makes sense at that image scale :P
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post #246 of 250 Old 02-10-2013, 06:22 PM
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Hi, Don,

I'm really looking forward to your NAB report. I doubt you'll see the Red laser in its final form, though, because it looks like they're still at least a few months away from finishing it. I'll be very pleasantly surprised if it's there. I won't be, for sure. My dad has end stage Parkinsons, and I have to be around to take care of him. My parents live across the street (without all the Everybody Loves Raymond melodrama biggrin.gif ), but if I weren't close he'd have to be in a home.

Contrast is the one thing I'm most concerned about with the Red laser. I was spoiled by my JVC RS45. It was the best looking 3D I've ever experienced in terms of contrast, but the ghosting was bad when the lamp was new and horrendous when it got a couple of hundred hours on it. I don't expect JVC contrast levels, but I do expect contrast and ghosting performance that's on par with my Epson 6010 projector. It's far from perfect, but it's the best overall compromise I've seen so far. Like I said, though, I'll have to see it for myself. This is one projector I won't buy sight unseen. It should offer full HD 3D in a passive system, though, and even 4k 3D at 60 progressive fps to each eye. There will even be some such content, since the projector has a Redray player built in.

I saw some of the YouTube footage you took of the 3D displays. Very cool stuff!!! I'm also looking forward to the more inexpensive 4k displays for editing. I have to flip up the glasses except when previewing 3D on my LG, or the details of the interface get lost, especially text. But I can't imagine editing without it now that I've seen how easy it makes everything. If Edius has a "flip left/right preview" button, I haven't found it. It should be an easy feature to add. Fortunately, the LG glasses are like feathers. I just don't notice the weight, even upside down. The other nice thing about the LG is that the glasses don't introduce much if any distortion into the image. When I watch my JVC footage on the Epson projector, the active glasses look less clear depending on exactly which area of the lenses I'm looking through. It's not terribly noticeable unless the image a still or a static video shot, but it's there. The LG glasses are much cleaner.

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post #247 of 250 Old 02-10-2013, 07:38 PM
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With all your guys talk of flipping glasses over have you tried hacking up a pair of Real3D glasses?

I made a set of dual play glasses for my LG TV by separating the frames, pulling out a lens from each and swapping it into the other in the alternate side. M

Maybe you can do something similar with a set of those glasses and revers where the lenses go? It only took a little trimming and glue and the result is quite good. You wouldn't even know they were messed with unless you looked closely.

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post #248 of 250 Old 02-10-2013, 07:49 PM
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That's a good suggestion. I have a couple of pairs of those from movies I saw in the theater. I'm sure it would work. For me, though, those glasses are more like the earlier generation of LG passive glasses (the kind they still use for demos at Best Buy). On my head, they aren't as comfortable right side up as the newer style LGs are upside down. eek.gif And the newer LGs are a bit more "wrap around," which reduces rear reflections. I imagine for some, though, that it would be a convenient solution to the problem.

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post #249 of 250 Old 02-11-2013, 10:25 PM
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You are right about the passive. My TV came with 4 glasses & I bought 8 more for $29. The picture quality makes you smile & say "WOW". So I do not know how it could get better picture. My 3D looks like looking through one of those old "View finders" you use to look at as a kid, but the pictures are moving.

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post #250 of 250 Old 02-11-2013, 11:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jgilliam1955 View Post

You are right about the passive. My TV came with 4 glasses & I bought 8 more for $29. The picture quality makes you smile & say "WOW". So I do not know how it could get better picture. My 3D looks like looking through one of those old "View finders" you use to look at as a kid, but the pictures are moving.

"Better" is a subjective term but I have to ask, how close are you to your display and how big is it?

Because anything less than 13 feet from my 55 inch and I can easily tell how the image could be better... outside 13 feet it gets very hard to tell pretty fast and I would guess somewhere around 16-18 feet I honestly could not spot the lost resolution or scanline artifacts anymore.

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