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post #1 of 250 Old 05-21-2012, 11:39 AM - Thread Starter
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Passive is the way to go.
I'm getting rid of all my active sets and replacing them with passive.
My wife, family and friends all agree.

Did IQ's suddenly drop sharply while I was away?
I enjoy 3D in spite of HDMI 1.4!
Full screen only 3D doesn't cut it!
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post #2 of 250 Old 05-21-2012, 12:52 PM
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I second that sentiment...probably not with as large of a body of work in testing or research as you but in my limited experience, passive is hands down MY PERSONAL preference. Let's see how many "active 3d" trolls show up to shout us down...LOL

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post #3 of 250 Old 05-21-2012, 01:06 PM
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Give me a 2D picture quality to match that passive 3D and I'm sold. The LGs which are currently the top choice for passive 3D are inferior sets when it comes to things which make a great 2D TV: blacks, contrast, color accuracy, motion resolution.
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post #4 of 250 Old 05-21-2012, 01:22 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Elix View Post

Give me a 2D picture quality to match that passive 3D and I'm sold. The LGs which are currently the top choice for passive 3D are inferior sets when it comes to things which make a great 2D TV: blacks, contrast, color accuracy, motion resolution.

Makes perfect sense.
I miss my Kuro but I won't miss my active 3DTVs that's for sure.

Did IQ's suddenly drop sharply while I was away?
I enjoy 3D in spite of HDMI 1.4!
Full screen only 3D doesn't cut it!
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post #5 of 250 Old 05-21-2012, 01:29 PM
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Elix, I own an LG 65LM6200 and I'll take the Pepsi challenge any old day against any other set in it's class. The 2d PQ on that set is AMAZING! I was at HH Gregg looking at Samsung, Sony and Panny plasma and LED/LCD sets and there was not much of a difference in 2d PQ between them all. For me it all came down to the quality of 3d.
Have you actually been out and done some comparisons in person?

It helps black levels tremendously when you keep the backlight and brightness turned down. As for motion, I set the trumotion settings manually to get rid of the SOE while still controlling motion blur and artifacts.

I also have a Sammy Plasma (HPT5064) in our bedroom and while it does have a wonderful picture, the level of detail isn't as good as my new LG. I like many different brands and have nothing against any one in particular but once I saw the LG passive 3d in person I felt the time had finally come to purchase a 3d TV. The technology is now at a point where I feel good about it and the 2d PQ is certainly not a drawback on these sets IMHO.

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post #6 of 250 Old 05-21-2012, 03:43 PM
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I'm inclined to agree that passive will win. No flickers from windows and electric lights, and it is emerging that a very important consideration to buyers is light, cheap glasses.

I have an active which I will hang on to until the technology has progressed to a satisfactory state. It isn't there yet in passive or active. My current set is a Sony, so as long as I turn off lights, draw the curtains and take regular 'glasses breaks' to allow the bridge of my nose to recover, then the experience is tolerable. Sony is the new name for Shoddy in my opinion. Passive sets just make the image look 'hollow' compared to active with its fuller HD picture.

So I'll sit tight and wait. Maybe the tech will not get there for another few years.
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post #7 of 250 Old 05-21-2012, 07:04 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jscott70 View Post

I second that sentiment...probably not with as large of a body of work in testing or research as you but in my limited experience, passive is hands down MY PERSONAL preference. Let's see how many "active 3d" trolls show up to shout us down...LOL

LOL - as opposed to the Passive Fanatics huh?

As has been mentioned, you need a high quality picture foundation to build upon and LCD isn't it. Never has been. Never will be. That is the biggest drawback to passive 3DTVs.

Talk to any 3DTV owner and ask them how much time they spend watching 3D versus 2D and I would be amazed if anyone said 20%. There just isn't that much 3D content out there to view.
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post #8 of 250 Old 05-21-2012, 07:19 PM
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I love threads like this. Cant resist putting my opinion in. I love 3d. I feel fortunate to get to enjoy my 3dtv.

If you like it view it, if you don't like it don't watch 3d (that is what most people do).

Lets start trying to get the studios to give us what they promised us when we invested in these sets, GOOD 3D content. That is all I want. And I want it at a good price. It was nice going out this weekend and purchasing some $16.99 blu ray 3d's. I don't want the next time im getting that price to be because they aren't going to produce more content. Be happy with what you have not what you want. And don't try to justify your tech to satisfy your ego.
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post #9 of 250 Old 05-21-2012, 07:35 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wonka702 View Post

I love threads like this. Cant resist putting my opinion in. I love 3d. I feel fortunate to get to enjoy my 3dtv.

If you like it view it, if you don't like it don't watch 3d (that is what most people do).

Lets start trying to get the studios to give us what they promised us when we invested in these sets, GOOD 3D content. That is all I want. And I want it at a good price. It was nice going out this weekend and purchasing some $16.99 blu ray 3d's. I don't want the next time im getting that price to be because they aren't going to produce more content. Be happy with what you have not what you want. And don't try to justify your tech to satisfy your ego.

It would be very helpful for the adoption of 3D-TV to have more content. I can't remember the last time Comcast added new 3D content. Depending solely on 3D BD for 3D content doesn't cut it iMO.
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post #10 of 250 Old 05-21-2012, 07:45 PM
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But what about 100" and greater 3D projection? It is possible to do that with passive, but hardly mainstream. Isn't the advantage of that huge picture worth the little bit of flicker? I don't mean for the task of 3D editing, but for those family nights.
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post #11 of 250 Old 05-21-2012, 07:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Stewart View Post


It would be very helpful for the adoption of 3D-TV to have more content. I can't remember the last time Comcast added new 3D content. Depending solely on 3D BD for 3D content doesn't cut it iMO.

It sure would. I would like 3Net and Espn 3d on Cox. I would also like Vudu to be able to offer all movies in 3d, they pretty much have all 2d titles, but a very limited amount of 3d titles. I have even resorted to buying things like the Secrets of Cuban Cigars in 3d on Vudu just to have something new to watch in 3d but that was also because it was $. 99
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post #12 of 250 Old 05-21-2012, 08:06 PM - Thread Starter
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I don't have a shortage of 3D content as I have been producing my own for over three years.
I've probably deleted more 3D content then the vast majority of you have watched.
Lately I've been doing my 3D editing and watching on a passive monitor and have come to love it.
When trying to view 3D with any of my active displays I get fatigued almost immediately.
My wife can't stand active either and began to twist my arm about getting rid of them a while ago and finally I've seen the light.

Did IQ's suddenly drop sharply while I was away?
I enjoy 3D in spite of HDMI 1.4!
Full screen only 3D doesn't cut it!
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post #13 of 250 Old 05-21-2012, 09:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Frank View Post

I don't have a shortage of 3D content as I have been producing my own for over three years.
I've probably deleted more 3D content then the vast majority of you have watched.
Lately I've been doing my 3D editing and watching on a passive monitor and have come to love it.
When trying to view 3D with any of my active displays I get fatigued almost immediately.
My wife can't stand active either and began to twist my arm about getting rid of them a while ago and finally I've seen the light.

This is my first and only 3d video from YouTube

http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?desktop...XOM0VhNw&gl=US

My experience is with passive 3d and I find its advantages to far outweigh its disadvantages and a superb 3d solution.
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post #14 of 250 Old 05-22-2012, 07:37 AM - Thread Starter
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Now the task is to replace my three remaining active 3D televisions with passive.
The 63" samsung plasma in the living room will be replaced with either a 65" Vizio or LG. I'm leaning toward Vizio as I use a 42" as my main computer monitor and I like it fine.
Even though I rarely use the televisions 3D mode I am offended by the LG use of the 3D warning that can not be bypassed.
99 percent of my 3D viewing is via computer using either line interleaved of checkerboard so the 3D warning might never show up except in the rare cases where I watch ESPN 3D in the living room.
I'm going to replace the Samsung UN40C7000 on my treadmill with the same VIZIO I use as my desktop monitor.
I'm still not sure about what to do in my theater room.
I have an idea but it's quite expensive.

Did IQ's suddenly drop sharply while I was away?
I enjoy 3D in spite of HDMI 1.4!
Full screen only 3D doesn't cut it!
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post #15 of 250 Old 05-22-2012, 12:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Stewart View Post

It would be very helpful for the adoption of 3D-TV to have more content. I can't remember the last time Comcast added new 3D content. Depending solely on 3D BD for 3D content doesn't cut it iMO.

Amen. Dish Network is atrocious in their 3d offerings. I have quite a bit of 3d content between 3d Blu-ray and SBS files but it would be great to have some channels, much like DirecTV. I switched from them to Dish a few years back but am seriously considering reversing that since DirecTV is now giving away the Sunday Ticket to new customers, doing year long discounted rates, have a killer DVR and offer several 3d channels. Tempting...

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post #16 of 250 Old 05-22-2012, 12:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Frank View Post

Now the task is to replace my three remaining active 3D televisions with passive.
The 63" samsung plasma in the living room will be replaced with either a 65" Vizio or LG. I'm leaning toward Vizio as I use a 42" as my main computer monitor and I like it fine.
Even though I rarely use the televisions 3D mode I am offended by the LG use of the 3D warning that can not be bypassed.
99 percent of my 3D viewing is via computer using either line interleaved of checkerboard so the 3D warning might never show up except in the rare cases where I watch ESPN 3D in the living room.
I'm going to replace the Samsung UN40C7000 on my treadmill with the same VIZIO I use as my desktop monitor.
I'm still not sure about what to do in my theater room.
I have an idea but it's quite expensive.

I own one of the 2012 models (65LM6200) and there is no 3d warning, only a mode selection dialog but you can just hit select because unless you're viewing SBS or checkerboard, it is always on 2d>3d mode and 3d Blu-ray auto detects and seemlessly transitions into native 3d mode. The 2d>3d mode is actually quite useful and pretty effective on most types of content. Talk shows and some movies don't see much effect. Basketball games have been awesome to watch in 2d>3d and many movies, especially those authored in 3d but showing in HD (e.g. Cars 2) work very well. There is a lot of depth but not any pop-out. I find the IMAX movies/documentaries to be the best for popout. 3d Blu-ray obviously is the best 3d experience. LG's Smart TV 3d World has some nice 3d content as well. I would definitely take a look at both Vizio and LG in person before making your final decision. Good luck in your replacement endeavors!

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post #17 of 250 Old 05-22-2012, 01:56 PM
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For me, I think 4K passive OLED is the Holy Grail. I much prefer the passive glasses, but the interlaced lines are really noticeable, even on a smallish screen. I'm hoping the 4Ks will fix that problem. I'm also hoping they'll be out and affordable before my DLP set dies.
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post #18 of 250 Old 05-22-2012, 03:37 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by jscott70 View Post

I own one of the 2012 models (65LM6200) and there is no 3d warning, only a mode selection dialog but you can just hit select because unless you're viewing SBS or checkerboard, it is always on 2d>3d mode and 3d Blu-ray auto detects and seemlessly transitions into native 3d mode. The 2d>3d mode is actually quite useful and pretty effective on most types of content. Talk shows and some movies don't see much effect. Basketball games have been awesome to watch in 2d>3d and many movies, especially those authored in 3d but showing in HD (e.g. Cars 2) work very well. There is a lot of depth but not any pop-out. I find the IMAX movies/documentaries to be the best for popout. 3d Blu-ray obviously is the best 3d experience. LG's Smart TV 3d World has some nice 3d content as well. I would definitely take a look at both Vizio and LG in person before making your final decision. Good luck in your replacement endeavors!

Thanks,
For me, taking a look in person doesn't do much good.
I need to bring my laptop and an HDMI cable and use Stereoscopic Player to determine if there is a compatible non HDMI 1.4 mode that I can use to display windowed 3D.

I'm not sure whether circular polarized passive 3DTVs are compatible or can be made so with a third party driver.

Did IQ's suddenly drop sharply while I was away?
I enjoy 3D in spite of HDMI 1.4!
Full screen only 3D doesn't cut it!
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post #19 of 250 Old 05-22-2012, 10:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank View Post

Now the task is to replace my three remaining active 3D televisions with passive.
The 63" samsung plasma in the living room will be replaced with either a 65" Vizio or LG. I'm leaning toward Vizio as I use a 42" as my main computer monitor and I like it fine.
Even though I rarely use the televisions 3D mode I am offended by the LG use of the 3D warning that can not be bypassed.
99 percent of my 3D viewing is via computer using either line interleaved of checkerboard so the 3D warning might never show up except in the rare cases where I watch ESPN 3D in the living room.
I'm going to replace the Samsung UN40C7000 on my treadmill with the same VIZIO I use as my desktop monitor.
I'm still not sure about what to do in my theater room.
I have an idea but it's quite expensive.

Be sure to view the 65" Vizio in person. I have the 47" version and it is WONDERFUL, however, the 55" and 65" may suffer from smearing and blooming not found in the smaller models. It would seem Vizio has restocked Wal-Mart quite well and they may have one for youbto view. I saw what the person in the Vizio thread was complaining about, and it wasn't as bad or bothersome to me at a distance but up close it was quite annoying. I have seen the LG models also as my friend purchased the LG5600 model and the 2d-3d conversion feature also makes it a more appealing model (not necessary but I now wish I had it). I love my Vizio and for the value it is wonderful, but obviously money doesn't seem to be an issue for you so I think you would definitely want one of the new higher end dual core LG models.
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post #20 of 250 Old 05-23-2012, 01:15 AM
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Originally Posted by jscott70 View Post

I second that sentiment...probably not with as large of a body of work in testing or research as you but in my limited experience, passive is hands down MY PERSONAL preference. Let's see how many "active 3d" trolls show up to shout us down...LOL


"Active 3D troll" checking in. I don't believe Frank ever had a high quality active plasma 3D TV from Panasonic to compare over a long period of time. I personally understand the sentiment if all one has lived with has been Samsung, Vizio. LG, or even Sony non-plasma 3D actives TVs. Now don't get me started on the SD quality of the passive sets for what shoud be HD content or the visible shifting when you look up or down while wearing passive 3D glasses - at least on LG's original passive sets. Admittedly there may have been some major improvements, but I stopped comparing after I saw how disappointing the PQ was for passive when they first came out.
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post #21 of 250 Old 05-23-2012, 03:31 AM - Thread Starter
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"Active 3D troll" checking in. I don't believe Frank ever had a high quality active plasma 3D TV from Panasonic to compare over a long period of time.

The reason I didn't have my Panasonic 3D plasma for very long was because I was getting close to smashing it with a sledge hammer.
I wrote about my experiences with it on this forum years ago.
No more Panasonic 3DTVs for me.

Did IQ's suddenly drop sharply while I was away?
I enjoy 3D in spite of HDMI 1.4!
Full screen only 3D doesn't cut it!
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post #22 of 250 Old 05-23-2012, 07:19 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by TrickMcKaha View Post

But what about 100" and greater 3D projection? It is possible to do that with passive, but hardly mainstream. Isn't the advantage of that huge picture worth the little bit of flicker? I don't mean for the task of 3D editing, but for those family nights.

I've been trying to figure out how I'm going to do passive 3D in my theater while keeping my ability to display interlace content for windowed 3D and multiple 3D windows on screen.
I have only found one possible way to do it which is:
1. Two projectors with passive polarizers with appropriate screen material.
2. Existing computer with HDMI out and splitters throughout.
3. Doremi Labs Dimension 3D format converter
4. 2 each HDSDI to HDMI converters
The Dimension 3D can convert the interlaced 3D from the computer to dual left and right HDSI which then will be converted to HDMI to each projector.

Did IQ's suddenly drop sharply while I was away?
I enjoy 3D in spite of HDMI 1.4!
Full screen only 3D doesn't cut it!
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post #23 of 250 Old 05-23-2012, 09:39 AM
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Just choose what works best for your environment.

Active is the easiest way to go for a projector setup without making wholesale changes in the setup. In a dark environment I have no issue with active glasses... no flicker, decent brightness, etc. The only major downside is the cost of the glasses. One big advantage with the MV3D active glasses was the ability to adjust duty cycle/delay to nearly eliminate all the x-talk.

No need to make passive vs. active a format war. You can play your 3D content on either display system.

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post #24 of 250 Old 05-23-2012, 10:31 AM - Thread Starter
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Just choose what works best for your environment.

Active is the easiest way to go for a projector setup without making wholesale changes in the setup. In a dark environment I have no issue with active glasses... no flicker, decent brightness, etc. The only major downside is the cost of the glasses. One big advantage with the MV3D active glasses was the ability to adjust duty cycle/delay to nearly eliminate all the x-talk.

No need to make passive vs. active a format war. You can play your 3D content on either display system.

In the three years I've been watching 3DTV via active shutter glasses I've acquired a lot of experience in all the things that can go wrong.
In addition, I've also found that dealing with them is more then I'm willing to tolerate.
Not only that, but the 3D projector manufacturers have decided to not support any form of interlaced input from a computer thus making my necessary windowed 3D impossible.
MY theater lies dormant with a Sony LCOS projector on the ceiling and a 8 foot screen with motorized masking. In front of the screen sits a 82" Mitsubishi 3DTV which is not used anymore because I have major issues with it not to mention the problems we now have with active glasses.
Unfortunately, it seems I'm the only 3D viewer on plant Earth that requires windowed 3D.

Did IQ's suddenly drop sharply while I was away?
I enjoy 3D in spite of HDMI 1.4!
Full screen only 3D doesn't cut it!
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post #25 of 250 Old 05-23-2012, 10:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Frank View Post

In the three years I've been watching 3DTV via active shutter glasses I've acquired a lot of experience in all the things that can go wrong.
In addition, I've also found that dealing with them is more then I'm willing to tolerate.
Not only that, but the 3D projector manufacturers have decided to not support any form of interlaced input from a computer thus making my necessary windowed 3D impossible.
MY theater lies dormant with a Sony LCOS projector on the ceiling and a 8 foot screen with motorized masking. In front of the screen sits a 82" Mitsubishi 3DTV which is not used anymore because I have major issues with it not to mention the problems we now have with active glasses.
Unfortunately, it seems I'm the only 3D viewer on plant Earth that requires windowed 3D.

Frank, How much would you sell your 82' Mitsubishi 3DTV?
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post #26 of 250 Old 05-23-2012, 10:50 AM - Thread Starter
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Frank, How much would you sell your 82' Mitsubishi 3DTV?

I never sell my used stuff. I donate it to friends and family.
Always have, always will.

Sorry
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Did IQ's suddenly drop sharply while I was away?
I enjoy 3D in spite of HDMI 1.4!
Full screen only 3D doesn't cut it!
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post #27 of 250 Old 05-23-2012, 12:30 PM
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I never sell my used stuff. I donate it to friends and family.
Always have, always will.

Sorry

Be frank with me Frank, wanna be friends? ;-)
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post #28 of 250 Old 05-23-2012, 12:39 PM
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Be frank with me Frank, wanna be friends? ;-)

wonka702,
You just made my list for "favorite post to date for 2012"...
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post #29 of 250 Old 05-23-2012, 01:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank View Post

In the three years I've been watching 3DTV via active shutter glasses I've acquired a lot of experience in all the things that can go wrong.
In addition, I've also found that dealing with them is more then I'm willing to tolerate.
Not only that, but the 3D projector manufacturers have decided to not support any form of interlaced input from a computer thus making my necessary windowed 3D impossible.
MY theater lies dormant with a Sony LCOS projector on the ceiling and a 8 foot screen with motorized masking. In front of the screen sits a 82" Mitsubishi 3DTV which is not used anymore because I have major issues with it not to mention the problems we now have with active glasses.
Unfortunately, it seems I'm the only 3D viewer on plant Earth that requires windowed 3D.

I have watched a lot of 3D content on my HW30ES since taking ownership in February. I have had no significant issues using it for 3D BDs. Granted I primarily use the Monster/Optoma RF glasses.

Again passive would be nice, but it would require multiple projectors, specialized filters, effort and mounting system for aligning them.

Have you used active system for projection or are you just being a zealot since you view passive as better. Polarized front projection still has a ton of issues with extinction due to screen issues. Very few screen manufacturers even market 3D silver screens and those that do have very specific criteria for maximizing and maintaining polarization. The Dolby/infintec/omega systems still require some sort of color correction. Not to mention the high price of hardware like demuxing boxes and additional projectors including maintaining multiple units.

So what's your laundry list of what's wrong with current 3D projection setups? I am sitting back and enjoying some great 3D in my HT.

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post #30 of 250 Old 05-23-2012, 01:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank View Post

I've been trying to figure out how I'm going to do passive 3D in my theater while keeping my ability to display interlace content for windowed 3D and multiple 3D windows on screen.
I have only found one possible way to do it which is:
1. Two projectors with passive polarizers with appropriate screen material.
2. Existing computer with HDMI out and splitters throughout.
3. Doremi Labs Dimension 3D format converter
4. 2 each HDSDI to HDMI converters
The Dimension 3D can convert the interlaced 3D from the computer to dual left and right HDSI which then will be converted to HDMI to each projector.

I knew you'd be engineering some one-of-a-kind solution. Don't let it stop you if manufacturers won't cater to your needs.

I have noticed that Stereoscopic Player gives 3D in a window now using just plain vanilla HDMI 1.4 to my projector - no need for checkerboard or interlaced there. Maybe more applications will support windowed 3D within HDMI 1.4, but I don't expect you to wait around for that.
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