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post #1 of 27 Old 07-12-2012, 09:54 PM - Thread Starter
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So I went out and got a Vizio 55" LED/LCD at Sams today. I know the pic is not like Plasma, but I thought they had come a long way - and still think they have. Still, I now realize at the end of the day, the I jumped the gun. I saw some great 3-d this afternoon and then wham all kinds of probs. So I have made a little progress in a few hours. I have read about the difference in SBS & TOB and there is still so much. I see information ranging from lowering to 720, or disabling upconversion if involved. And then bumpin my TV down from 240 to 120 for certain instances. And I am not even sure if the later referred to 3-D. So here's what happened today:

1. Got home and hooked it up to comcast. Kinda crappy older silver DVR HD receiver, but I do have decent bandwidth in the area, just not full Xfinity 50mps type yet.
2. Played the TV on the comcast 3d channel and watched the castle flick (SBS), it looked awsome and blew my mind. But It just lacked detail and the sound seems ****. Still the things were in your face..
3. Later tonight I was showing someone and played the same flick from comcast ONdemand. Xcept this one was TOB. QUickly I started to realize issues as this TOB broadcast was not even 3d now. I looked like reversed, or only depth inward. I research and saw some saying HDMI cables. I doubted as I have always bought the cheapest 3 dollar cables newegg has and been fine with the exception of the power-on issues with the Panasonic Plasma I had. Anyway, I looked at the cable and it was the thinest of 4 I had run through the wall, so I switched to another one and it was much better and no somewhat comming out of the screen. But still any serious movie startup scene seems to overload and just blind you with visual distortion. The detail was much improved however when the scene was not really intensive.
4. UGGGH. I KNOW SO LITTLE and when I was younger I would have been an expert.!?!?!?!!! I am thinking to return this one to Sams tomorrow till I know what I am doing. I am also thinking of getting a Mitsubishi 73" I have now seen for 1400. I swore I would never had a bulb gobbling monster - are they cheaper yet. So I am thinking if you guys said that mitsubishi rocked I would just make an elevator to rise out of the floor - LOL... Seriously though...

PLEASE help.... Off to read again...
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post #2 of 27 Old 07-13-2012, 02:38 AM
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Originally Posted by bbc3 View Post

So I went out and got a Vizio 55" LED/LCD at Sams today. I know the pic is not like Plasma, but I thought they had come a long way - and still think they have. Still, I now realize at the end of the day, the I jumped the gun. I saw some great 3-d this afternoon and then wham all kinds of probs. So I have made a little progress in a few hours. I have read about the difference in SBS & TOB and there is still so much. I see information ranging from lowering to 720, or disabling upconversion if involved. And then bumpin my TV down from 240 to 120 for certain instances. And I am not even sure if the later referred to 3-D. So here's what happened today:

1. Got home and hooked it up to comcast. Kinda crappy older silver DVR HD receiver, but I do have decent bandwidth in the area, just not full Xfinity 50mps type yet.
2. Played the TV on the comcast 3d channel and watched the castle flick (SBS), it looked awsome and blew my mind. But It just lacked detail and the sound seems ****. Still the things were in your face..
3. Later tonight I was showing someone and played the same flick from comcast ONdemand. Xcept this one was TOB. QUickly I started to realize issues as this TOB broadcast was not even 3d now. I looked like reversed, or only depth inward. I research and saw some saying HDMI cables. I doubted as I have always bought the cheapest 3 dollar cables newegg has and been fine with the exception of the power-on issues with the Panasonic Plasma I had. Anyway, I looked at the cable and it was the thinest of 4 I had run through the wall, so I switched to another one and it was much better and no somewhat comming out of the screen. But still any serious movie startup scene seems to overload and just blind you with visual distortion. The detail was much improved however when the scene was not really intensive.
4. UGGGH. I KNOW SO LITTLE and when I was younger I would have been an expert.!?!?!?!!! I am thinking to return this one to Sams tomorrow till I know what I am doing. I am also thinking of getting a Mitsubishi 73" I have now seen for 1400. I swore I would never had a bulb gobbling monster - are they cheaper yet. So I am thinking if you guys said that mitsubishi rocked I would just make an elevator to rise out of the floor - LOL... Seriously though...

PLEASE help.... Off to read again...
Here's one opinion, DLPs rock, especially for 3D.

But your issue might be pseudostereo. Look for a reverse or invert control in your 3D menus. Some material gets the left and right eyes backwards, and the reverse setting corrects this.

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post #3 of 27 Old 07-13-2012, 08:24 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks. I am looking at the thread now.

Regarding the tweak on the 3d. I understand this Vizio has some extended settings that are readily avail, but somehow I am missing them. And yest to clarifiy, its like every time we try a TOB, the stuff barely comes out of the set. At first with the crappiest cable, it was like a tiny bit 3-d, but the glass was the limit, and the screen only had a bit of depth. But still all crappy like I said. I really cant believe the changing the cable had so much to do. I hve heard but... and I do understand that the cable is VERY complex in what it is delivering and far more than the layman would realize. Soo....

Let me check out that review on the DLP, cause I am really thinking about going pre-historic in the name of entertainment for the $...
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Here's one opinion, DLPs rock, especially for 3D.
But your issue might be pseudostereo. Look for a reverse or invert control in your 3D menus. Some material gets the left and right eyes backwards, and the reverse setting corrects this.
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post #4 of 27 Old 07-13-2012, 10:32 AM
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In regards to your problem, I think its a issue with the content your using. I have many 3D blu-rays and have never had an issue with depth or pop that I know of, unless the content itself was rather weak in utilizing it. I haven't used any of the 3D channels that are provided via cable, so I cannot comment on that. I own the following models:

M3D550KD - Just purchased, haven't fully tested with 3D content due to time constraints but did test using the Nvidia Sterovision Setup Control Panel

M3D470KD - Ordered, but not delivered yet

E3D470VX - Sold this one for a good price, and replacing it with the M3D470KD. (Had this TV for about a year! 3D usage experience includes: Gears of War 3, Halo Anniversary, Tron Legacy, Toy Story Trilogy, Resident Evil Afterlife, Monsters vs Aliens, How to Train your dragon, and other titles...)


Most of my experience with Passive 3D and TV's have only been with the display I just sold to upgrade to a LED one. I'm really happy with the quality of the 55" display so far. I'll report back on my 3D experience once everything is setup and I get a chance to watch some of my 3D movies (recently bought a house and still in the midst of unpacking and etc).

Hope this helps.

~Ninja

EDIT: I was looking at the Mitsubishi DLP's for a while to get one for my new house, but with all the research I did, I found the lighting engines (not the bulb) are likely to die out shortly after having it for 3 years. Which may not be a bad thing if you decide you want to upgrade that quickly, which is something I would more then likely do. However I decided against it because I prefer Passive 3D and I don't have room for the size of the TV.

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post #5 of 27 Old 07-13-2012, 12:30 PM
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Originally Posted by bbc3 View Post

Thanks. I am looking at the thread now.

Regarding the tweak on the 3d. I understand this Vizio has some extended settings that are readily avail, but somehow I am missing them. And yest to clarifiy, its like every time we try a TOB, the stuff barely comes out of the set. At first with the crappiest cable, it was like a tiny bit 3-d, but the glass was the limit, and the screen only had a bit of depth. But still all crappy like I said. I really cant believe the changing the cable had so much to do. I hve heard but... and I do understand that the cable is VERY complex in what it is delivering and far more than the layman would realize. Soo....

Let me check out that review on the DLP, cause I am really thinking about going pre-historic in the name of entertainment for the $...

Pre-historic? eek.gif

DLP is the newest TV technology! smile.gif

Did you know that, of the three (DLP, plasma, and LCD), DLP is 20 years newer, technology wise? (Plasma 1964, LCD 1964, DLP 1987) CRT Rear projection is even newer than plasma or LCD.

The first LCD consumer TV was introduced by Sharp in 1988. The first consumer plasmas to sell were JVCs and Pioneers in 1997. The first consumer DLP to sell was Mitsubishi's in 2001, four years after plasma, and thirteen after LCD.

The only "new" thing about LCD or plasma, was finally being cheap enough to compete in the market. Those 42" flat panels weren't as cute when they were $10,000-$15,000. And they replaced CRTs in the market, not RPTVs.

When Mitsubishi invented rear projection, most people still bought 19"-25" CRT TVs. Mitsubishi filled a need for those who wanted the big screen experience. They never outsold mainstream TVs, they never tried. Then they moved into DLP technology, easily stepping into the HD market. Other manufacturers who tried DLP eventually couldn't compete in rear projection, and pulled out, leaving Mitsubishi in a great place with zero competition. While the other manufacturers continue to fight over market share for mainstream TVs, Mitsubishi sits in it's same niche market as before, except now with absolutely no competition. The definition of success.

Oh. and don't get suckered into an expensive HDMI cable. Digital signals are nothing but ones and zeros, so any quality high speed HDMI cable will work, and you can get a good one online for around $5. I have several HDMI cables of various brands and pricing, and all work equally well.

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post #6 of 27 Old 07-13-2012, 12:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RandomNinjaAtk View Post

...EDIT: I was looking at the Mitsubishi DLP's for a while to get one for my new house, but with all the research I did, I found the lighting engines (not the bulb) are likely to die out shortly after having it for 3 years. Which may not be a bad thing if you decide you want to upgrade that quickly, which is something I would more then likely do. However I decided against it because I prefer Passive 3D and I don't have room for the size of the TV.

I've had my DLP since 2008, and my daughter's is a 2007 model. My sons each have a 2009 model. These are all over 3 years old. rolleyes.gif My friend and my ex-wife both have 2011 models. All TVs work great and have an excellent picture, with newer model sets showing improvements every year.

I have seen many posts of people with DLPs as old as nine years. They only came out in 2001, so that's pretty good. ALL TVs can have defective units, not just DLPs. Scan these forums for LCD and plasma horror stories, and you'll find plenty. the reason you hear about light engines being replaced is a sign of the times, where techs no longer repair TVs, but just replace parts. DLPs are modular, and the tech replaces the entire light engine if anything in it fails, just as one might replace a circuit board in a plasma or LCD. They are no more "likely to die out" than parts in other TVs.

The lamps are much like the lamps in projectors, and are designed to be changed every 4000-6000 hours, yet some people get much more use than that out of them. With a lamp change, one effectively gets a brand new TV, which is really cool. If a plasma or LCD fades and begins to skew its color the only recourse is to buy a new TV. With DLP, all you need is a $99 lamp.

Try this thread for more on DLP longivity. http://www.avsforum.com/t/1414925/the-how-old-is-your-dlp-tv-thread Even people in that thread who have had major repair work done (mostly Samsung TVs) still sing the praises of DLP. Ask them what they recommend.

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post #7 of 27 Old 07-14-2012, 02:30 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks you all for the help so far. I'm just freaking sick to my stomach cause I think I got one I dont want. Dont think its an issue as Sams should take it back, but dont want to goof again. A couple of things.

What has really blown my mind is that the hDMI cables have indeed made a difference. First moving from the 3$ newegg cable, to the 6$ new egg cable eliminated some of the issues where the TOB 3d was not working. but now much. So I went and got a sony brand cable for about 35$ at walmart which was rated at 10 mb/s, and it completely resolved the issue for the most part. The proof was that (and keep in mind I have really only tested with comcast broadcast space and 3D castle with that crappy vocalist and band LOL). But on the 3d castle or whatever its called, until I got the expensive cable, all of the edge type contents was pretty much a blurr. For example, in the beginnnig of the flick where they are sitting outside the gate, you could not see the trees on the edge of the screen and it hurt my head. With the new cable, the trees are just glimmering out at you from the edges.... So I am blown away that in my testing, cables have made a difference. I suspect that the reason for cables not mattering in the past was limited data content, and the 3-d requiring much more - so now the issue is materializing. Gotta figure they were founding the exhorbidant BS cable sales on something. Now i guess they get to say i told ya so...

Mostly now what is depressing me is that the LCD JUST SUCKS..... Keep in mind its LED perimeter based technology which is better, and there are even block type I understand with up to 80 or more grids of actual direct backlight being controlled.. BUT THIS SPEAKS NOTHING OF PICTURE PROCESSING CABABILITY. Its also a VIZIO which i guarantee is OVER-RATED. No offense to anyone. But my buddy told me when I got the plasm it was the only close to real, or CRT. I will grant you I watched an expensive DLP for a month in 2008 (it was a friends HIGH end model). It was a good tv which I never judged as unrealistic or failing in any way. Still the DLP seems to always have a "haze" of something lacking. Perhaps in my mind. But I am thinking there is no doubt that plasma is the most realistic in look and action.

To further my experience with the 55 inch vizio led lcd from sams(I have not made any effort to calibrate). It is great for cartoons!!! LOL Serioiusly. It even turns movies into cartoons. Why is it the lcds seem to turn 2d pictures into 3D, and this one does not even have the capability!?!?!?!?! I have ghosting even with the good cable on the wizzard movie with Nick Cage on a high def channel. And flat out there is grain all the time with the tv shifts between color fields of large area(like moving to a sky scene or similar). the bottom line is I CANT EVEN UNDERSTAND HOW LCD COULD GET A DECENT RATING!!?!?! Surely videophiles BLAST These??

The one positive note I was looking at was energy consumption. The Panasonic plasma I had was the 50KU I think. Even with the color turned down, if you walked by it - IT WOULD COOK YOU FACE LOL. I know this thing was heating the house terribly and I had two. I have no doubt that if an A/C guy came out to quote the house, he better know what he is doing, cause he is gonna have to bump up half a ton for people with two of those. So I am now looking at the Panasonic 55" 3d model which by the way fits in the same spot for my old 50", as did the 55 I just got... I went back and reviewed the specs on the old panasonics I had and they boasted A GOBBLING 700 watts of power.>!!!!!?? And I am sure thats at the setting I had, and that it could probably hit 1000watts on a good day. I had two of these bastards.... The nwe panasonic 55" 3D models are rated at 220 watts unless I am reading something wrong? And thats not much more than the LCDs...

So its down to Plasma or the mitsubishi 73". I'm just not gonna bust more than the 1500.$ better model, Period. Can someone tell me if its missing anything critical that you have to spend a bunch of $$ for on the DLPs??

PS. I am just thinking as far as 3d goes, it will be a nice perk, but not there. All the garbage about the industry indecision with the powered glasses or not..! the lack of content. The issue of having to put on glasses ( I looked for contacts for giggles - not here yet). And It is my opinon that to make 3-d worth the effort, you have to have the arrangement where if fills your viewing area. Thats a big TV for the fam room which I just built in cabinets for and I am not about to make a change now. Unless I design something to drop out of the ceiling, or pop up out of the floor.. But it does look like I will be getting 3d regardless if I am going with the panasonic again, unless I find someone who has a good priced model with the 55" layout in the old 50" cutout without it. Thoughts?
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post #8 of 27 Old 07-15-2012, 07:57 AM
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Sounds like some of your complaints are from image processing in general. Which happen on pretty much every modern LCD/LED TV. I personally turn all of it off, run my TV using "Game Mode", my TV's are directly connected to a computer, and I have no ghosting/lag issues using the display.

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post #9 of 27 Old 07-15-2012, 05:51 PM - Thread Starter
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I suspect you are right. I am reading more and more and thinking I just need to give it a bit longer. I can say for sure that the heat in the house has changed dramitically since swapping from the 700watt gobble monster and I like that. I really have to wonder if all the energy comming off those plasmas was even healthy.. I am getting off topic.. The long and short is I took a break last night to watch SNL on a pretty standard comcast 1080i broadcast and did not have a single complaint. I still have tweaked nothing, so its a matter of show to show somewhat I speculate. I have seen others speak of certain types of programming messing with it and needing some special features turned off. I think I even read somewhere that you could kick it down from the 240 hz to 120 to resolve an issue. But still I hate to have to freakin tweak all the time. If I can determine that I can just set it and go then fine. I am a little hestitant about the fact that it does not seem to have all the features the new panasonic 3d plasma does, but I dont know. The 2d-3d conversion lack of kinda sucks and I think the pani has a browser. But would i use all that? I suspect I would use the browser a lot for the kids and to avoid cranking the PVR sometimes. Still I am wondering how much could potentially change with firmware updates? Could they possibly add some of these features down the road.? I will also say the dimming is nice. I used to set the plasmas down to about 40% output for all time running as a heat mitigation so I was stuck in low pic mode as I did not even want to manually switch modes with hot buttons for fear of leaving it in a high output mode and having a dwelling meltdown.. LOL. So it is nice to have to full pic and then auto kickdown in dark and none of it costing more than 100 watts. So ill try the game mode tonight and I have THOR on blue Ray 3d ( which I have not seen yet) and I rarely run the PS3 as its pretty new to and I just have not found to time to be a child again yet. I do suspect the picture would be unparalelled for video gaming 2D or 3D.. I wonder can you connect headphones via blue tooth?
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Originally Posted by RandomNinjaAtk View Post

Sounds like some of your complaints are from image processing in general. Which happen on pretty much every modern LCD/LED TV. I personally turn all of it off, run my TV using "Game Mode", my TV's are directly connected to a computer, and I have no ghosting/lag issues using the display.
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post #10 of 27 Old 07-16-2012, 05:52 AM
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Let me know how it goes after changing the settings. I also turn these settings off:

(doing this from memory)
Settings -> Picture -> Advance

I'll turn off the settings like:

Smooth Motion
Noise Reduction
(any other setting that uses image processing)

I use these settings so the TV is not doing any type of image enhancement from the source that is being displayed and this resolves the issues your referring too (I've also seen these problems on LG and Samsung TV's). Also I never tweak it and I personally never turn it back on because to me it is all just a gimic anyways. The video is only as good as the source your providing it and there is no need to use the image processing to try to enhance it and in my opion make it worse in most cases.

I have not tried to connect a headset via bluetooth to the TV. Could be useful, but I have everything piped through an AVR. Also take a look at the 3D content section of the forum. Such as this thread: http://www.avsforum.com/t/1415628/just-got-my-3d-tv-which-movies-should-i-check-out-to-get-the-full-effect

3D will greatly depend on the content, meaning a lot of films have just depth and not much pop out, but others will have more pop out and etc. So I highly advise that you test with multiple films, especially ones listed in the thread before judging how well the TV can do 3D. In my opinion the Vizio TV's do Passive 3D TV as well as any LG Passive TV, just some films don't push it very much and I think Thor falls into that category because it is a conversion film and not a native 3D film.

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post #11 of 27 Old 07-16-2012, 10:41 AM
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I would get a 3d plasma or Dlp tv in a second over any led,lcd tv if active glasses don't bother you. In my opinion if you want the best looking 3d with no ghosting or crosstalk go with Dlp. I have an active 3d dlp projector setup and it's amazing compared to lcd,led 3d it blows them way. The dmd chip operates at 16 microseconds much faster than lcd,led or even plasma.
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post #12 of 27 Old 07-17-2012, 12:19 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks again. Still I try to get involved and research this thing every second as the clock is ticking on the return I am sure. I believe sams states that you can return anything for any reason. But i dont need the remote destroyed by kids, or restock charges if avoidable. They do state no restock as well though....

With regard to turning the specialy settings off, I have do so and really dont note a whole lot of diffence on a comcast 1080i broadcast. The once consistent thing that bugs me is the grain that I see (most likely artifacting or large scale ghosting) when the screen moves to large areas of same context of contents, and especially in whites. The ghosting on individual characters (large ones) appears limited and for the most part - its a video screen. Still in essence I am bothered by the whole aspect as why put all these features if its all ********. I dont like to be slapped in the face when busting a dime. LOL In short, this thing is nothing more than a glorified computer monitor, which may even have lower performance capability due to its inherently large size. My primary snobiness with regard is that I moved straight from large CRT type Sonys to plasma, as a part time video semi-phile buddy of mine insisted I had to go plasma. he was correct as the transistion was seamless and it never felt for one moment that I was not watching CRT. But with that said, I try to remain open minded, because who is to say that video reproduction was ever supposed to look like CRT. Its is after all, simply an established norm. Therefore, I can get past any percieved 3d effect not intended, etc.. But grain, ghosting, and pixilation I will not do. The conundrum now is energy efficiency. I Have determined that the two plasmas I had were gobbling 700watts of power. Thats a microwave over!! LOL. My house actually stays at 69 degress in the daytime and used to have trouble holding 73. Period.. So I wonder should I just go with this LCD based on that. The kids wont know the difference and just leave the bastard up front where my TV watching is minimal.

Still I though that the LCD would be great for gaming due to the natural screen production as more distinctive between active content (separation of pixels), but I am reading that perhaps they are not the best choice due to Millisecond ratings, as they may not mean the same regardless of the fact that this is a 240hz LCD. Can anyone elaborate. Because I will pay a game of two up there..

I will say that VIZIO did an excellent job with the 3D.! That is once you have an HDMI cable capable of delivering in excess of 10 mbs/sec. I dont know how the glasses feel, and myself I just dont plan to sit around attemping to live in a 3D world. There is no question that the movies are better, even if just considering the depth aspect, but I am just too real minded and not going to be bothered except for special occasions. Another thing though is that I dont appreciate the added expense of purchasing 3D media (29bucks), but at least they actually added something new to justify the industry wide seemly constant upsale. On that point, I am not even sure if the eyes can distinguish beyond 720p, which I undestand is basically as good as 1080i...! There is the KIDS, which will undoubtedly BREAK 3D glasses. In active 3D talk, that equals 100bucks per incident. So the long and short is they will wind up without glasses for 70% of the time. LOL Finally there is size. 3D just seems like tits on a hog if your pic is under 70 or 80 inches, at least as far as the comming out of the screen aspect. Its extremely annoying to get caught tracking a 3D image leaving the screen and you mind left on the fringe of reality and the 3D that is LIFE. So I have to wonder. 2D sets are peaking in low price at this time for sure at all forms of production. It would be one thing if I could pop in some contacts changing the color of my eyes as well to transfer the thrill to other aspects of life, but just not there. The glasses are nothing more than a beast of burnder, beyond the benefit of the momentary treat..

I dont like the fact that the TV lacks a browser and 2d-3d conversion, which I hear can be pretty effective in some technologies. This is a bummer. But on the lighter side, Vizio apparently manufactures and sells only directly from their site and internet unit for about 100bucks that seamlessly integrates a browser and more. The best part though is that it works on any tv I think.

I will say this. if it were not for the power issue, I would go on back to plasma at this point - deal done. But belive me having two of the older runs runing at once gobbling 1400watts and just rendering the A/C ineffective has me scarred. At this point, the only hangup I have is the power consumption of the Panasonic still around 300 watts. And they wont differentiate if that is with their "power saving mode" on or off. I am not even sure if power saving mode is not just their auto shutoff timer.!?!?! I spoke with the tech rep at Pani this morning who first advised that the Plasma consume as much as they ever did. I had to refer him to my documenation from the previoius set to get him to acknowledge there was even a difference. This did not suprise me based on my past conversation with them after purchasing the older models. Still there is no question that Pani packs the most plasma video for the $ into their TVs. I also think I read somewhere in the past that Sharp makes ALL plasma screens anyway.. It really makes you wonder if you could not simply modify firware on a Pani ST50 and turn it into a VT 50?

Any further thoughts appreciated.
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post #13 of 27 Old 07-17-2012, 12:25 PM - Thread Starter
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One more. And not to digress as I am sure the subject is discussed here to some degree considering. but considering that I am finding that these Vizio Led 3d LCDs do appear new on the market, perhaps not. So the question is this:

Looking at all the LCDs out there. How does this Vizio really stack up? Its the new "Smart" one with the fish on the screen in all the ads. WOULD I REALLY GET MORE IF I PAID SAMSUNG 1500 or 2K for a Plasma? Would I get a better picture.?

And one more thought with regard to HEAT vs. energy used. Perhaps the technolgy has changed in a way that the tv eliicits less of the conductive heat type energy? So perhaps 300 watts on a newer Plasma tv does not equal the same realized heat value of 300 watts of the older tvs? I Wonder does the finish on the screen, as some are boasting now darker or lighter (not sure) but supposed to deal with ambient room light better. I wonder is this changing the actual energy transfer form and rates..? Anything? Thoughts?
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post #14 of 27 Old 07-17-2012, 12:53 PM - Thread Starter
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FYI, I am going to go ahead and run the Thor Blue ray tonight both 3d and regular and I will let you know. I did not see it listed on the movies on the link..smile.gif
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Let me know how it goes after changing the settings. I also turn these settings off:
(doing this from memory)
Settings -> Picture -> Advance
I'll turn off the settings like:
Smooth Motion
Noise Reduction
(any other setting that uses image processing)
I use these settings so the TV is not doing any type of image enhancement from the source that is being displayed and this resolves the issues your referring too (I've also seen these problems on LG and Samsung TV's). Also I never tweak it and I personally never turn it back on because to me it is all just a gimic anyways. The video is only as good as the source your providing it and there is no need to use the image processing to try to enhance it and in my opion make it worse in most cases.
I have not tried to connect a headset via bluetooth to the TV. Could be useful, but I have everything piped through an AVR. Also take a look at the 3D content section of the forum. Such as this thread: http://www.avsforum.com/t/1415628/just-got-my-3d-tv-which-movies-should-i-check-out-to-get-the-full-effect
3D will greatly depend on the content, meaning a lot of films have just depth and not much pop out, but others will have more pop out and etc. So I highly advise that you test with multiple films, especially ones listed in the thread before judging how well the TV can do 3D. In my opinion the Vizio TV's do Passive 3D TV as well as any LG Passive TV, just some films don't push it very much and I think Thor falls into that category because it is a conversion film and not a native 3D film.
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Have you seen this review of the TV???

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/b/0,2817,2404054,00.asp

As for your complaints on grain, it's more then likely the content. If you watch a lot of blu-rays, many of them have a noticable grain. This is not because of your TV but however the content itself (video) and this tends to be more prevelant in blu-rays that are live action. The best way to see the difference is to watch a live action flick, and then watch a CG (animated) flick like cars. You'll notice that there is no grain in the CG film. So this is not an issue at all with the TV. You may however have never noticed this before on a CRT becuase:

A. It probably couldn't display the full resolution of the content

or

B. The screen was too small in size to notice

I am by no means a video/tv expert. You are right in regards for 3D, that the bigger the screen, the better the effect because your less likely to reach the edges where the effect drops off. In my house, I have no room for a TV really larger then 55". So as much as I'd love a bigger screen (such as a DLP), I really would have no place to put it and I also prefer Passive 3D (which is not possible as of yet for a DLP or Plasma).

For the features your talking about why include them if they all kinda suck (Strictly image processing), it's because all modern TV's have it and to stay competitive with other brands, they need to include it also. The 2D -> 3D conversion feature would be nice, but it will cost you to buy a higher end TV. For example, I paid about $1200.00 for my 55" Vizio 3D LED TV but I would have had to spend almost $750.00 more to purchase the 55" LG 3D LED TV (55LM8600). To me a feature that some say is gimicy but I'm sure is nice to have, is not worth an extra $700+ out of my pocket. However, it could be worth it to you.

As the review said by PCMAG, you have the best value in performance/quality for an HDTV. If you spend the extra cash, sure, you'll get the 2D to 3D conversion and better smart tv apps, but for me, I don't use the smart tv apps and the 2D to 3D is a gimic. All that matters to me is the 3D performance (which is great) and the performance/quality of the display, which happens to be very close to high end model TV's (such as the LG).

I hope all this is helpful.

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post #16 of 27 Old 07-17-2012, 02:50 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the link. I had not seen that. FYI the remote control for the TV sucks too.... Also I did not realize the power was that high considering many 55"lcds are down around 80 watts..!! I think I saw the info, but not really presented in that way.

And I dont mean to sound like a "plasma jerk", but I never noted ANY pixilation, ghosting, or whatever on the 50 inch cheapo Pani's. They were simply as solid as a 32" CRT, their is no other way to put it.

Further, I suspect the lack of image burn, and the plasma recent (as of the models I got in 2008) ability to deal with it, were related to the fact that they were blasting 700 watts through the screen. So it does have me wondering. And I am not so sure the kids wond set up a game a just hammer it -- burning what could not be burned... LOL

I was noting something that appeared to be burnin on my older 50's prior to loosing them. It was similar to an early concern that aways seemed to go away with a quick on and off. So I dont know. I would just be more comfortable if the Vizios were more like 999.99. Then I could go with it. As now, only 150 more I I get the plasma delivered flat 1450.00 Still kids burning in, and breaking glasses. Just dont know. Guess I can set the off timer....

Still finally I wonder about your analysis of grain being inherent and related to content. For example. Blue ray is just about as high a grade video presentation one could watch.. To go on that line of logic would suggest the Panisonic high end VT series would be flowed on a new blue ray production, which I doubt would even be possible. I suspect its the black/white matrix in contrast processing that is causing what I am interpreting as blotchy or grainy. Just thoughts.

I wish I had room for the 73 inch DLP.... LOL
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post #17 of 27 Old 07-17-2012, 03:01 PM
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Sounds like you paid a little too much for this TV. I purchased mine from Amazon for 1200, not 1300. But does make for easier returns being purchased at retail.

I like the remote, it controls my AVR's volume really nicely, but it is a little on the bulky side.

Still the pixelation/artifcats is a content issue, I notice this on a Sony LCD also using comcast which is supposed to be HD (parents house, I have FIOS). Comcast just sucks when it comes to the content because it is so severely compressed, and maybe plasmas handle compressed ****** signal/video better then LCD/LED TV's do... The best way to test though is to watch a blu-ray, because then you will have perfect video and no compresion artificats/pixelation. You may still have some grain, but not pixelation/artificats and that's because of the video content itself, as I have previously stated.

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post #18 of 27 Old 07-17-2012, 09:01 PM - Thread Starter
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I have the Blue Ray of Thor on right now as I type. I am somewhat mystified and not sure whats going on exactly. There just does not seem to be a whole lot of movie content designed to project out of the TV!?!?!? There have been several "showcase opportunities" to which I would have expected the content to just jump right out of the screen - But nadda. The image appears 3D in depth, but just not a whole bunch jumping. There were some stars early on that somewhat appeared to jump out, but still questionable.

Whats funny is that I pretty much gave up on the 3-d to research and took off the glasses. Whats interesting is that I notice that the screen seems to come in and out of "blur"... Every now and then i look and the screen is crystal clearm and then I look up and its blurred again like you would expect a 3-d image to look like. When the screen is clear without glasses, the detail seems there, but I dont know if all the way 1080p or as detailed as with the glasses on.

I am playing through a PS3 that is essentially 6 months old and never used. I had to update the firmware on the PS3 to get it to play at all. So I think the PS3 is only correctly at this time. When selecting the view type on the Vizio 55", the first time I pressed the button to determine media type it said something like it detected 3D content and I pretty much clicked yes, but there was never an option for TOB or SBS, or whatever. It just acted like it knew what it was going to do. Now whenever I go back and press the 2D/3D button, it simply offers 2D or exit, but makes no mention of 3D or 3D options. If I press the info button on the TV, it indicates the content is 3D up in the top right corner. Does it sound like its doing right?
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post #19 of 27 Old 07-18-2012, 04:41 AM
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Sounds like your TV is behaving normally. Blu-ray 3D content is frame packed, meaning the TV will recognize the frame packed material and then will automatically prompt to switch to 3D. The reason this doesn't work for the other content you were watching is because it was not using the standard for frame packing, so the TV has no idea that you are attempting to watch 3D and that's why it must be manually switched to either SBS or TOB. Now if you took the same SBS/TOB content and played them in a Steroviewer media player on a PC, the media software would recognize that it was SBS or TOB and notify the TV to switch to 3D. But cable simply cannot provide this function.

Most of my 3D watching has been with the PC and when I want to adjust the 3D effect, I do so directly in the software. My TV has been the same as yours with no other 3D options if you use frame packed 3D content which is normal. I do not know however (I don't know anyone else with a 3D TV locally) whether other TV's have 3D options to change the depth. Other TV's may have this, but its probably because they convert 2D -> 3D on the fly.

As for Thor and the picture getting blurry and clear with the glasses off, that's just the content and not something the TV is doing. As I said before, conversion films are not very impressive when it comes to 3D (I still enjoy them) and a lot of 3D movies mostly add depth to the picture but not a ton of pop. You should pick up a film from the 3D content threads that are recommend for 3D Content. They'll also mention in the threads, typically, if the movie has some really cool pop out scenes or is mostly depth.

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post #20 of 27 Old 07-21-2012, 05:22 AM - Thread Starter
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i just cant decide damnit..!!! Imagine you had to replace not 1, BUT TWO large TVs....! And in today' times. It aint easy I am here to tell ya! I love the plasma display, BUT I AM NOT HAVING THE HEAT AGAIN. While the heat appears cut in half to what I am used to, I dont like the violating intrusion into my space that the plasmas seem to emit... The LCDs are just not that bad once you get to watching. While I find the cost of some of the LCDs DISTURBING, they remain on the table. Look at the DLPs...! You can get almost top tier in a 73" for 1600.00..!! This can not be omitted..! What to do... I think it is going to boil down to feeling good about the deal.... Still my plasma hang-up is strong... SO strong that in lieu of Sams having a pretty solid 43' Samsung plasma for 398$ (only 720p which is basically 1080i and whats the difference considering most braodcasts are 1080i only), still I elected to purchase a 40" dogshit LCD as a get-me-by yesterday in Sams for 330$..!!!. So I bought some time anyway and get to consider further LCD as a real option. I figure if I wind up keeping the 40' LCD, it can be a computer monitor in the office as its 1080p. Consider folks used to pay 600$ for a decent LCD computer display at 21"!!!!!!!!!!!! Techno monsters we are indeed... help...
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I'm guessing from the sounds of it, that you returned the Vizio TV....Sounds like your having a really difficult time making a decision. I would just suggest that you do what makes you the happiest. Even if the TV causes more heat, probably worth your piece of mind to just get the plasma cause that seems to be the tech you really want.

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post #22 of 27 Old 07-22-2012, 09:07 AM - Thread Starter
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No - Believe it or not, I have not returned the Vizio. I just cant find enought flaws. IT does not seem to have the problems the lower end Vizios have. I'm a little disturbed about the price at 1200 still, and the fact that to drop the 3D only deducts 200$ from the price. So I may be stuck with it. The one that is causing my great debate is the bedroom TV. My escape and cavern of solstice. The one I will have to look at to save me from the insanity of life.. I put the cheap Sanyo LCD in there to try to buy some time, but its not working. Regardless of the fact the that the 39" sanyou 330$ turd is totally covered with FUsszzsszz, its not even the pic quality. I REALLY CANT BELIEVE I am saying this - But it seems to be the size that I am hooked on. I just cant seem to live without at least 50". I may take that sanyo back toady and get the LG and just be done with it. But what amazes me is that I cant find a damn bit of info on the comperable Samsung at sams thats currently marked down to 999.00. And I think its an order item in my area.... So Im probably goig plasma in the bedroom again, but at least they appear to rate out around 200watts. I suspect the Samsung I refer to has the dimished picture brightness too and as means of achieving these 200watt energystar ratings....
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I'm guessing from the sounds of it, that you returned the Vizio TV....Sounds like your having a really difficult time making a decision. I would just suggest that you do what makes you the happiest. Even if the TV causes more heat, probably worth your piece of mind to just get the plasma cause that seems to be the tech you really want.
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post #23 of 27 Old 07-23-2012, 08:48 AM - Thread Starter
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So not only did I not return the TV, I almost got a second one to replace the other TV. The bottom line is that I have successfully made the transition from plasma in my mind. Yesterday, I sat in the other sams in my area just comparing the 55" Vizio with a panisonic, LG, and Samsung - and a the UT series panasonic plasma. To my amazement, it was the Panisonic plasma that looked tweaked down at this Sams. They did not have the LG 60" even available at this store. So I am certain something is going on with these plasma sets in these stores. They may even be tweaking down the signal they are receiving. I actually went to this sams with the intentions of overriding all research to date and buying a 60" Samsung plasma that is currently 998.00 and listed around 1300 till you get it in your cart. However, they had only two left and none of display. So i was not going to risk getting this home to find a DIM picuture. There is no question the was PLASMAs are perputrated on society today - they want us to think they are dogshit. But I got hung up in the FEATURE LIST again. This Sams had some killer LCDs set up that caught my attention. FIrst, I have no doubt that Samsung is still making top of the line here. They had a 60" Samsung going for about 1600 that blew my mind. But they cheated it with a solid blue ray output, so I passed given the price. I started talking with the store rep who was very knowledgible, and got back on the LCD crush. I started comparing some 55" LED LCDs and got lost again. I actually almost bought the MK vizio again for a second one in my house. At the end of my side by side review, I just could not tell a bit of difference in the 55" Vizio, Panasonic, and LG LEDs. I thought that perhaps the LG had the best pic (slightly), and I noted that I could not seem to get the blues to match the panasonic and LG. So I got in this price battle in my mind about the panasoic for 1200, or another Vizio for 1200, but with all the features. Finally I just kicked down to an LG 47" for 698 and this seems to be the price break point these days. Plus I could def use this one as a computer monitor one day. 100 bucks more would have got the Vizio 47" with the 3d and all, but i was not after that for the rear TV and it was down to $$$ now, and sleeping good at night. So the 47" is only 3" less than the Panasonic Plasma I am replacing in the bedroom, which I had already made note in my mind that it may have been a shade too big at points in the past. Amazingly, the 39" Sanyo LCD i had purchased in an attempt to stave off the final purchase taught me that it was not just the size of the 39" that rendered the set disappointing, but the picture. What provoked my return of the 39" was standing up close to it the other day and seeing snow all over the TV - thus realizing it wont even make a good office/somputer monitor. But there was something about it that made it difficult to see clearly, and more than size related.

So in my final review...:
1) I am sold on the LCD
2) I am convinced Plasma will gobble just about all the electricity it ever did, once the picture is turned back up off energy star qualified ratings.
3) Good LCD does NOT have the issues I was worried about (unintentional 3d look, poor picture, etc)
4) The LED aspect is adding more than cost effective back lighting, and long life but a slightly better picture. And you can never complain about slim design. Smaller IS better.
5) I do suspect there may be some color issues with the less expensive LCDs, but not an issue if spending the $$...
6) if not for price I would have got another 55" 3D LED LCD Vizio, but I steered away for prive break at 47" thus affording a future option to upgrade without vomit. SO i opted to save the 500 bucks on the replacement of the master bedroom TV.
7) MAKE NO MISTAKE. You will not find the features on the Vizio 55" LED for this price in any other. The LGs were the closest I thing at 300 bucks more. I doubt there is a real screen difference once the Vizio is tweaked.
8) The LG LED is rated at something like 12 watts which satisfies my need for a "passive screen" in the bedroom that puts out almost ZERO HEAT in comparison to plasma.
9) Finally I did not realize how solid a group LG is in televsion technology.
7) HANDS Down, LG does something with their HUMAN INTERFACE that is kinda hard to explain. In short - its like the know that they are doing LOL. The way the TV features interact with you is a different experience. The menus, the settings, its just like they actually gave concern to the human aspect too.

I have the LG 47" LED LCD as my choice in the bedroom, and I have zero complaints, in fact, I LIKE watching this TV.!! Thats all there is to be said. The TV is weak on "Smart features", but as one poster mentioned - who needs to be bottlenecked with built-in firmware that will be out dated, and when you can add external devices. The TV offers somekind of movie play option through USB that I have not investigated and it may be DIVX based, whatever. They DID put a cat 5 jack on the back to get it online in your network. Still I dont know if I will ever use any of this, although I would like to get my movie collection which I have ripped available through my network one day. Thats about all I care about as far as extras for now. I am not into any further cost than my sat or cable service... This LG picture is as good as plasma in my opinion, or as far as my eyes care. And its EASY on them....smile.gif
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Congratulations on figuring it all out and what you really wanted. Seemed like this was a really tough decision for you. I purchased a 47" LED Vizio 3D, the one you mentioned for the basement of my house and it's just as nice as the 55", just a little less in picture size.

On a side note (I know you were mentioning how much you liked the LG), incase you didn't know... The 3D Vizio TV's use panels made by LG. I do not know if this is true for all their 2D TV's but as far as I'm aware, they screen is produced by LG. So I thought you might like to know that wink.gif

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Interesting. No I am not that familiar with LCD manufacturing at this point. Kinda like Sharp manufactures all the plasma screens I think - perhaps even the panasonic ones.??

With regard to the LG vs the Vizio. Its true, I really cant say that I can see a bit of difference. But there will be big differences in the driving power behind the screen in this arena I am certain. So A screen, is not a screen without the hardware and firmware that generates the picture to it. My wife swears the Vizio 55" has a better pic than my new LG in the bedroom. I am not so sure she is not right. I am getting ready to look up and see how to tweak it out. It should be noted that the 1080 pic should be better on the 47" verses the larger screens. At least in theory.

Right now, and untweaked, I am noticing something on the LG 47 I purchased that I cant really put my finger on. Its similar to the "static" in noted on the cheap Sanyo that I purchased to try to "b uy some time" with. But not the same really. The Sanyo was indeed some kind of cheap snow effect that i dont ever start to claim these more expensive tv would have.

But you can note that I INTENTIONALLY stayed in the 700 price cap range in order to UPGRADE myself in the near future. Afterall, guys like us - Entertainment is extremely valuable in our lives. No expense can be spared. LOL. I will make this tv an office computer monitor most likely when that time comes. If someone would just make an application to spead windows applications around with some sort of memory and real funtionality. Talk about a scam. Perhaps Microsoft is still saving that aspect to justify sales and the next Windows.eek.gif But clearly - the days of needing to fork our a grand for a muti-monitor display are over...wink.gif

So off to see if someone has some tweaking specs on this LG...smile.gif
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Congratulations on figuring it all out and what you really wanted. Seemed like this was a really tough decision for you. I purchased a 47" LED Vizio 3D, the one you mentioned for the basement of my house and it's just as nice as the 55", just a little less in picture size.
On a side note (I know you were mentioning how much you liked the LG), incase you didn't know... The 3D Vizio TV's use panels are made by LG. I do not know if this is true for all their 2D TV's but as far as I'm aware, they screen is produced by LG. So I thought you might like to know that wink.gif
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post #26 of 27 Old 07-24-2012, 01:11 PM - Thread Starter
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I just went through a set routine with the Picture wizzard II on the LG set. It made a dramatic difference on the 480i dvd I am watching now. So I dont know what kind of uneducated perversion I may have applied to the standard settings, but this seems to have it back on track..
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post #27 of 27 Old 07-24-2012, 08:34 PM - Thread Starter
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And just one further. Every time i walk by that 55" Vizio up front the pic looks better and better. but seriously, I am not so sure there is not a break in period where the screen improves. I have no doubt at this time that the 240hz processing is making a difference even with a cable broadcast. As far as I am concerned the pic in nothing short of incredible.. I am starting to worry about the LG I put in the bedroom though. Not so sure I feel the same about it. And If that Vizio up front is going to highlight the weakness of the 47" LG - I am just going to have to pray for a firmware miracle. Cause I trashed the Box today:eek:...biggrin.gif
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