Keep 3D active or make switch to Passive 3D TV - Page 14 - AVS Forum
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post #391 of 408 Old 11-10-2013, 11:03 AM
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Originally Posted by tgm1024 View Post

I am impressed that it was YOU that stated "categorically" that the passive on 3D was bad because of YOUR TVs. The previous poster was talking about passive in general.

Since you've seem to forgotten, here's the "categorical" statement that you made
Read it again
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Originally Posted by LeeC22 View Post

Come and watch my Sony KDL-47W805 passive 3D TV... that'll dispel the "passive 3D = zero crosstalk" myth for you.

Let me break it down for you:

"Come and watch my Sony KDL-47W805 passive 3D TV"

Note how I have underlined the point MY TV. Because all I can (and did) categorically state, is that my TV is bad, and would dispel a myth.

"... that'll dispel the "passive 3D = zero crosstalk" myth for you."

Again, my TV displaying crosstalk, is categorical proof, that passive 3D is not crosstalk free, therefore, myth dispelled. See, a very specific claim, regarding a very specific factor, no generalisation involved. Nowhere, and you can quote otherwise if you can find it, did I say "passive 3D was bad because of my TV". I highlighted a specific factor (i.e. zero crosstalk), and provided proof that my TV was bad at preventing it (but apparently great at causing it). I subsequently proved my point, with a piece of evidence, taken from my TV.

I have seen "good" passive 3D, on an LG set a year or so ago. Seeing that LG set, is what made me (wrongly) presume, that I would have no problems with an overly expensive Sony set... I was wrong. My Sony TV makes 3D unpleasant and unwatchable for me. That is what I said, and that is what I still maintain to be true. What your set does, might prove otherwise... to you, and you alone, or anyone that watches it. It certainly has no relevance to what my set is doing.

So instead of dragging this thread further offline with failed nit-picking, how about we just let people make educated choices, based on the facts that are presented. If you've got the same video clip on your TV (it's in the culture series of the 3D content, I can't find it online). Then post a photo of your set playing that clip without the crosstalk. That way, the OP can see that different Sony models, provide different levels of quality, with regards to 3D playback and crosstalk. That'll be far more helpful and constructive, than "My TV is fine, you're lying about what you're seeing on yours"... don't you think? All passive TVs are clearly not made equal, and the OP needs to know which TVs are less equal than others. I have a specific model, my set of that model is bad... that's a fact, and hopefully, a helpful one.

Now I am not subscribed to this thread, so I have said my part, and posted my proof to back me up. I am not going to bounce things back and forth, with no benefit to the post. Please don't quote me, just to prolong this argument. Prove your side of argument, for the benefit of the OP, then let it go. Enjoy your crosstalk free 3D, because it's something that not all of us with passive 3D TVs can do.
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post #392 of 408 Old 11-10-2013, 11:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Augerhandle View Post

Are you sure they weren't active glasses since they were non-giveaway?

 

Positive....I thought of that.  I can see the flicker effects off-screen a mile away with those, I don't care the refresh rate.

 

Besides, the lenses were there, but still "soft"....I could buckle them easily if I wanted to (and did when I cleaned them)....an active LCD array would *not* like that.


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post #393 of 408 Old 11-10-2013, 11:21 AM
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Originally Posted by LeeC22 View Post

Please don't quote me, just to prolong this argument.  Prove your side of argument, for the benefit of the OP, then let it go. Enjoy your crosstalk free 3D, because it's something that not all of us with passive 3D TVs can do.
 

This entire rant of yours is unwarranted, because the entire point was that you answered a general statement about passive with bad issues about YOUR TV.  You haven't posted any level of proof other than stomping that business of your TV, and are just attempting a "high road" style of arguing by saying things like

  • "for the benefit of the OP" and
  • "let it go".

Seriously....are you in high school to attempt that?  Doesn't fool anyone.

 

In any case, I also was very clear: My TV is not cross-talk free---I've just noticed it on a few movies.  It's just not as bad as you clearly stated.  Your TV seems to be producing something you find excessively bad.  Perhaps you got a bad model.  It happens.  Try considering that perhaps the quality of FPR might be dramatically better with a different model (or different product of the same model) than your own.  I hope you solve your crosstalk problem.


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post #394 of 408 Old 11-10-2013, 11:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Augerhandle View Post

Are you sure they weren't active glasses since they were non-giveaway?

 

For the record, I just called the theater and the guy laughed (not that it was a bad question).  "We put them through the wash, and there is no charging nor batteries, nor do they wear out...it's a kind of filter design."

 

I'm a little cringing at what they must do to them in their "wash", but then again, I don't want lice.


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post #395 of 408 Old 11-10-2013, 11:31 AM
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Originally Posted by rcandiloro View Post

I was worried about 3D not looking HD too. I have a 63" Samsung Plasma. 3D is crisp, but the glasses are really uncomfortable and there is a bit of crosstalk. I just bought a Vizio M series and the 3D is excellent. I played Batman on it and the image was very crisp, bright and had ZERO crosstalk.

 

BTW, rcandiloro, what exact model (and size) Vizio M did you get?  It's unusual to hear glowing reports on Vizio in these parts---good to have things balance out a little.  Forums tend to fill with negatives (it's the nature of going online to solve a problem)...be sure to mention your good 3D results in the right thread (if you haven't yet).


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post #396 of 408 Old 11-10-2013, 11:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tgm1024 View Post

BTW, rcandiloro, what exact model (and size) Vizio M did you get?  It's unusual to hear glowing reports on Vizio in these parts---good to have things balance out a little.  Forums tend to fill with negatives (it's the nature of going online to solve a problem)...be sure to mention your good 3D results in the right thread (if you haven't yet).
I bought a 55" M1A2. I have historically steered clear of Vizios, however, when I read the CNET review I decided to take the plunge. I'm not a videophile, but I do like quality products. Value is also important. I am a huge 3D fan and crosstalk drives me bonkers, so when I read that passive displays exhibit zero I was sold. I totally understand the whole half resolution argument against passive, but it wasn't anything I really noticed. For me there was a pop to the colors (I stayed in "computer" color in game mode) and having zero crosstalk just made a world of difference. I am concerned 3D is slowly dying. Sony has really deemphasized it with the PS4. It's a bummer because I really enjoy it. Thanks for the tip on posting. I don't spend too much time on AVS, but I'll make sure and post in the right spots.
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post #397 of 408 Old 11-11-2013, 03:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tgm1024 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Augerhandle View Post

Are you sure they weren't active glasses since they were non-giveaway?

For the record, I just called the theater and the guy laughed (not that it was a bad question).  "We put them through the wash, and there is no charging nor batteries, nor do they wear out...it's a kind of filter design."

I'm a little cringing at what they must do to them in their "wash", but then again, I don't want lice.
Okay, thanks for calling them. No batteries is proof enough. Putting them through the "wash" doesn't mean anything though, since there are active glasses available that are designed to be cleaned in a dishwasher.

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post #398 of 408 Old 11-11-2013, 05:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Augerhandle View Post

Okay, thanks for calling them. No batteries is proof enough. Putting them through the "wash" doesn't mean anything though, since there are active glasses available that are designed to be cleaned in a dishwasher.

 

It had never occurred to me either way.  But I can't find them now when I look online---is there a particular brand?


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post #399 of 408 Old 11-11-2013, 06:01 AM
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Quote:
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Quote:
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Are you sure they weren't active glasses since they were non-giveaway?

For the record, I just called the theater and the guy laughed (not that it was a bad question).  "We put them through the wash, and there is no charging nor batteries, nor do they wear out...it's a kind of filter design."

I'm a little cringing at what they must do to them in their "wash", but then again, I don't want lice.
Okay, thanks for calling them. No batteries is proof enough. Putting them through the "wash" doesn't mean anything though, since there are active glasses available that are designed to be cleaned in a dishwasher.

 

It had never occurred to me either way until he mentioned it.  But I can't find them now when I look online---is there a particular brand?  Friends of mine with active sets and kids would like to know that information.


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post #400 of 408 Old 11-11-2013, 02:55 PM
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I am impressed that having never seen my set, you can categorically state, without any doubt, what I am definitely overstating. That "bigger little brother" must have some impressive networking features, that allow you to see into my house... perhaps I should have got that version instead. rolleyes.gif

You look at this image, which comprises of two sections from one of the clips, then tell me that I am "definitely overstating things". This was photographed through one of the lenses, so has nothing to do with "fusing two images together". This is perfectly indicative of how this set is, all the time. There is always, something ghosting like that on the screen... always.


That's pretty heinous... have you tried moving up and down to check the entire vertical range? On my LG the sweet spot is not at all dead center but about 10 degrees down.... and of course gets better the further away I get. I do see similar to what your picture shows a way out side the sweet spot though...

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post #401 of 408 Old 11-11-2013, 03:40 PM
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We all know DLP is the only crosstalk free tech (someone will always chime in with this, so I though I'd get it out of the way wink.gif ) but in my experience a passive set viewed from the correct angle comes very close. If you are seeing that much crosstalk, perhaps you are not looking at the set directly in front of you from a seated position? This is critical with passive; many complaints seems to come from those who have their sets mounted too high and are looking up at them. If this is true of your setup, try standing up - does it solve the problem? If so, a tilt down mount may help.

I have an active Samsung LED from 2012 and luckily I have not noticed much crosstalk (it has much less than the 2010 Samsung and Panasonic plasmas I had) and I have only seen a tiny hint on my LG passive set.
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post #402 of 408 Old 11-11-2013, 05:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tgm1024 View Post

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Originally Posted by Augerhandle View Post

 
Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Augerhandle View Post

Are you sure they weren't active glasses since they were non-giveaway?


For the record, I just called the theater and the guy laughed (not that it was a bad question).  "We put them through the wash, and there is no charging nor batteries, nor do they wear out...it's a kind of filter design."


I'm a little cringing at what they must do to them in their "wash", but then again, I don't want lice.
Okay, thanks for calling them. No batteries is proof enough. Putting them through the "wash" doesn't mean anything though, since there are active glasses available that are designed to be cleaned in a dishwasher.

It had never occurred to me either way until he mentioned it.  But I can't find them now when I look online---is there a particular brand?  Friends of mine with active sets and kids would like to know that information.
Xpand is one brand. Most of their models are theater grade, and have an o-ring seal with a proprietary battery capsule that seals out water.

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post #403 of 408 Old 11-16-2013, 10:40 PM
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It sounds like 4k passive will settle this once and for all. Full HD with the advantages passive brings.

Except then we shall have 4k active 3d.
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post #404 of 408 Old 11-17-2013, 07:28 AM
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It sounds like 4k passive will settle this once and for all. Full HD with the advantages passive brings.

Except then we shall have 4k active 3d.

 

Once again, with the same pitfalls.  (Into the abyss...)


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post #405 of 408 Old 11-17-2013, 02:43 PM
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Once again, with the same pitfalls.  (Into the abyss...)

To me passive is there for those willing to sacrifice quality for cheaper glasses and not much else. True some active displays can have flicker but that is the fault of its implementation, try seeing flicker on a dlp for example. Passive has it's place but active provides for the better experience if your goal is the best image fidelity possible.
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post #406 of 408 Old 11-17-2013, 04:29 PM
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Once again, with the same pitfalls.  (Into the abyss...)

To me passive is there for those willing to sacrifice quality for cheaper glasses and not much else.

 

Cheaper glasses and not having to worry about batteries is enough to seal the deal for most people.  You forget that people often have kids, and friends, and, and, and, and the cost of glasses (and the compounding hassle of charging/batteries) is just too much.
 

Quote:

True some active displays can have flicker but that is the fault of its implementation, try seeing flicker on a dlp for example.

Saying "some active displays" and "dlp" in the same sentence is just silly.  There's no point to be made there.  Of all the types of displays you can possibly add 3D to, DLPs are a tiny tiny fraction of what people buy.  I'm betting most haven't even seen one in a home.
 

Quote:

Passive has it's place but active provides for the better experience if your goal is the best image fidelity possible.

 

Before seeing them side by side I had made that assumption as well.  It's just not true.  By "fidelity", you likely mean "resolution", because strictly speaking you lose luminance with active, and along with it static contrast, and there's more to picture quality than just resolution.  The passive does lose vertical resolution, but it has a kind of smoothness to the movie that I instantly appreciated.  I immediately understood what people were talking about and side by side I realized that I was getting increasingly annoyed with active.

 

At first I thought passive seemed a hokey kludge, not ready for prime time.  It took awhile and then I realized that the many positive responses were correct about its overall quality, and there is no doubt in my mind that active is the very worst thing to have come first.


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post #407 of 408 Old 11-17-2013, 04:38 PM
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Cheaper glasses and not having to worry about batteries is enough to seal the deal for most people.  You forget that people often have kids, and friends, and, and, and, and the cost of glasses (and the compounding hassle of charging/batteries) is just too much.

 
Saying "some active displays" and "dlp" in the same sentence is just silly.  There's no point to be made there.  Of all the types of displays you can possibly add 3D to, DLPs are a tiny tiny fraction of what people buy.  I'm betting most haven't even seen one in a home.

I agree with everything you say and in no way was my intention to demean passive (I have recommended friends I know who have asked me to go with passive as its benefits where more important to them then actives benefits). It certainly has its place and for good reason. As for batteries, I have to change mine every few months and I watch a lot of 3d so I do think this point is greatly exaggerated (especially as most wouldn't have to worry about it for a year). I also do not forget kids and thought about mentioning them but thought it was an obvious point that has already been covered countless times and should be obvious to anyone when decideing which tech to use.

I mentioned dlp as they are the best 3d displays by far and if you are after the best dlp active is the way to go. So obviously the point is if one is after is the best 3d available this is the way to go. This in no way means active is bad, but in performance it isn't as good. Also most haven't seen 3d at home in any case, so of course most haven't seen a 3d dlp at home. smile.gif
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post #408 of 408 Old 11-18-2013, 10:42 AM
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I've owned all varieties of 3D displays except for projectors...DLP, plasma, LCD, LED-LCD. While I love the comfort of the glasses used with passive displays, I dislike the reduction in resolution that is inherent in passive 3D technology. Yes, I realize that the further away you sit the less-apparent the line-structure becomes, but I prefer to sit closer to the screen. And I find even the most minimal amount of crosstalk too distracting, so going with active 3D meant going with DLP. It is unfortunate that Mitsubishi chose to abandon the consumer display market...I've owned DLP TVs since they were first introduced, and have had dozens of people comment on how "stunning" the picture was.

I purchased my last DLP brand new for $800...not bad for a 73" TV with a 3D picture that puts my LG LED-LCD and my Samsung plasma to shame. But at the end of the day it all comes down to personal preference. Your particular combination of factors (display size, viewing distance, number of viewers, visual comfort, etc.) should determine which 3D technology---passive or active---works best for you.
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