Optima HD25 compatible 3D glasses - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 33 Old 07-19-2013, 11:35 AM - Thread Starter
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I see there's a thread for the Benq w1070 on 3D eyewear, so I thought I'd start one for the HD25, especially since it can transmit 3D using either Optoma RF or DLP Link 3D glasses. (The RF glasses require the emitter to be purchased separately.)

i believe I have read where some folks have had some luck with non-Optima DLP Link 3D glasses. I haven't been able to find anyone who has had any luck with any non-Optima RF 3D glasses.

For me personally, I own 4 pair of the Panny Active Eyewear RF 3D glasses already. I haven't seen where anyone has tried these glasses with the HD25 and its emitter. Does anyone know if these glasses will work with the HD25?
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post #2 of 33 Old 07-19-2013, 12:50 PM - Thread Starter
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I just saw this posted in another thread:
Quote:
Are all 3D active shutter glasses compatible with each other?
For active shutter glasses, the industry has not settled on a common protocol format. Therefore, consumers that have 3D
glasses from Samsung, Panasonic, Sony will not interoperate. As a consumer if you want to watch a 3D event on your friend's
Samsung TV, and only have Panasonic glasses, you will not be able to see 3D. CEA as well as many eyewear manufacturers
are working to define a common protocol standard to eliminate this issue. XPAND has publicly announced eyewear that will
interoperate with multiple vendors' 3DTV products available in June.

However, if anyone's had any luck with interoperation of RF 3D glasses with the HD25, would love to know.

I do see that XPAND is producing "universal" 3d glasses, but Optima and Benq are not listed on their compatibility list.
http://www.xpand.me/compatible-devices/
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post #3 of 33 Old 07-27-2013, 12:17 PM
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Are the RF glasses also 144hz? I have read the PS3 glasses and IR emitter work with the Optoma HD33 but I would like to know if they also work with the HD25.

I bought the Optoma RF glasses and emitter. Don't like the way they fit as they are very loose but a definite improvement in the 3D picture over the DLP-Link glasses using an HD25e.
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post #4 of 33 Old 08-16-2013, 11:27 AM
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RE> Are the RF glasses also 144hz?

The Optoma RF glasses (the BG-ZF2100GLS and all glasses with Bit Cauldron RF technology) work at 144 Hz.

That RF technology provides us with a crazy amount of frequency support - we plugged in a GPU card with separate VESA and video ports, set that frequency to everywhere we could between 50 frames per second and 240 frames per second (total for both eyes) and the RF glasses locked on.

The projectors, on the other hand, do not all tolerate the frequencies above 144 Hz very well. We used a FireGL 7700 card to drive a DepthQ projector and we were able to test the glasses at 240 frames per second at 800x600. I'm pretty sure 240 FPS is out of the warranty range for bulb life and several other specs. (That "Ignore EDID and ram these settings down the cable" checkbox is a wonderful thing.)

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post #5 of 33 Old 08-16-2013, 12:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilipSosie View Post

RE> Are the RF glasses also 144hz?

The Optoma RF glasses (the BG-ZF2100GLS and all glasses with Bit Cauldron RF technology) work at 144 Hz.

That RF technology provides us with a crazy amount of frequency support - we plugged in a GPU card with separate VESA and video ports, set that frequency to everywhere we could between 50 frames per second and 240 frames per second (total for both eyes) and the RF glasses locked on.

The projectors, on the other hand, do not all tolerate the frequencies above 144 Hz very well. We used a FireGL 7700 card to drive a DepthQ projector and we were able to test the glasses at 240 frames per second at 800x600. I'm pretty sure 240 FPS is out of the warranty range for bulb life and several other specs. (That "Ignore EDID and ram these settings down the cable" checkbox is a wonderful thing.)
Well that may explain this problem: I tried an Xpand RF emitter with Xpand 105 RF glasses. They work great with the HD25e as long as the 3d source is 720p/60 but will not work at all with 1080p/24. I assume the projector is using 120hz when viewing a 720p/60 source and 144hz when a 1080p/24 is detected. Sound right to you? One more thing. I also tried Samsung RF glasses and they do the same thing BUT they are supposed to work up to 240hz.so maybe it's the emitter that won't do 144hz?
*According to the Xpand website the emitter and glasses work from 96hz to 240hz so I don't understand why this doesn't work with the Optoma.
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post #6 of 33 Old 08-16-2013, 03:32 PM
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>Sound right to you?

Exactly. 720p60 and 1080p30 content plays in 3D at 120, whereas 1080p24 content gets scaled up and plays in 3D at 96 or 144.

If the FIFA world cup BRD works (720p60) but Cloudy with Meatball (1080p24) does not, it's almost always a 144 Hz support issue.

Your new Optoma HD25e plays 1080p24 at 144, which looks stunningly beautiful, but...

DLP Link works with a fixed set of frequencies, as do most glasses, so "from 96 to 240 Hz" means "some list of frequencies decided at the factory, the lowest being 96 and the highest being 240, buyer beware if we didn't spell out 144 Hz support and put it on the list."

The only glasses I've ever seen where their spec means "the entire, continuous frequency range from 50 to 240 total frames per second (for both eyes)" is the stuff based on Bit Cauldron (Optoma RF, Monster Cable MAX, EStar America).

Some displays (the Optoma HD66 with 3D-XL, every Sammy that used IR glasses) play everything at 120. 1080p24 movies get frame-packed 2:3 pulldowned to 1080p30 and then get displayed in 3D at 120. You can do this with a PC to use that projector with those glasses. There might be a BRD player out there that does this for you - a few players have a menu option that sound like it does this - but I haven't seen a player where this works.

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post #7 of 33 Old 08-16-2013, 05:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilipSosie View Post

>Sound right to you?

Exactly. 720p60 and 1080p30 content plays in 3D at 120, whereas 1080p24 content gets scaled up and plays in 3D at 96 or 144.

If the FIFA world cup BRD works (720p60) but Cloudy with Meatball (1080p24) does not, it's almost always a 144 Hz support issue.

Your new Optoma HD25e plays 1080p24 at 144, which looks stunningly beautiful, but...

DLP Link works with a fixed set of frequencies, as do most glasses, so "from 96 to 240 Hz" means "some list of frequencies decided at the factory, the lowest being 96 and the highest being 240, buyer beware if we didn't spell out 144 Hz support and put it on the list."

The only glasses I've ever seen where their spec means "the entire, continuous frequency range from 50 to 240 total frames per second (for both eyes)" is the stuff based on Bit Cauldron (Optoma RF, Monster Cable MAX, EStar America).

Some displays (the Optoma HD66 with 3D-XL, every Sammy that used IR glasses) play everything at 120. 1080p24 movies get frame-packed 2:3 pulldowned to 1080p30 and then get displayed in 3D at 120. You can do this with a PC to use that projector with those glasses. There might be a BRD player out there that does this for you - a few players have a menu option that sound like it does this - but I haven't seen a player where this works.
Thanks for the explanation. Been pulling what's left of my hair out trying to get something other than the expensive Optoma RF glasses to work but without success. Doesn't matter what I set the output to in my Sony blu-ray player (or my receiver) it still outputs 3d blu-ray at 1080p/24. Only exception I've found is a few videos on Sony's 3Net channel which are native 720p/60. Guess I'll have to stick with Dlp-Link for now. Just don't like the Optoma glasses (fit and price).
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post #8 of 33 Old 08-16-2013, 05:59 PM
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I can help with the price but with the exact same fit. One more option is the Monster 3D MAX Glasses - they interoperate with the Optoma 3D-RF glasses, have a totally different fit, and are still available at several places at aggressive pricepoints.

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post #9 of 33 Old 08-17-2013, 06:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilipSosie View Post

I can help with the price but with the exact same fit. One more option is the Monster 3D MAX Glasses - they interoperate with the Optoma 3D-RF glasses, have a totally different fit, and are still available at several places at aggressive pricepoints.
Thanks but about $30 a piece is my price limit on glasses as I like to have 6 pairs or so on hand and even used the Optoma and Monster cost more than twice that.
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post #10 of 33 Old 08-28-2013, 03:58 PM
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@terry2, I was following your discussion with Philipsosie, he is very informative. I just got the HD25e today, haven't yet mounted it. I was curious, what glasses did you end up getting? I was thinking to go with the zf2100, probably the safest choice. Did you indeed confirm that these can do 144hz? Actually, how can one confirm that? Will an info screen on the optoma provide such information?
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post #11 of 33 Old 08-28-2013, 05:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silvereyes View Post

@terry2, I was following your discussion with Philipsosie, he is very informative. I just got the HD25e today, haven't yet mounted it. I was curious, what glasses did you end up getting? I was thinking to go with the zf2100, probably the safest choice. Did you indeed confirm that these can do 144hz? Actually, how can one confirm that? Will an info screen on the optoma provide such information?

Since your question was to Terry about how to confirm my work, that answer can't come from me, but about your confirmation tool question....

The EStar America upgrade utility should let you connect a PC to almost anybody's Bit Cauldron based BC100 Emitter and readout the "Current Frequency" right at the top of the screen. Link to the software:

http://www.estaramerica.com/upgrade-utility.html

Here's a screenshot of the utility with the HD33 I happen to have next to me. It's at 120, like an HD33 should be. Can someone not-me with an HD25e repeat and post their results? The goal is to show that the HD25e does a BRD movie at 144 Hz, that the BC100 Emitter is showing 144 Hz, and that the glasses (ZF2100 and ESG6000) are synced to the emitter at 144 by looking through them and confirming that you see 3D and not just nothing (or worse a flickering mess).


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post #12 of 33 Old 08-28-2013, 09:54 PM
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Philipsosie, I managed to find a cable that goes into the bc100 emitter (made in china). Not sure exactly how this work, but I'll try to get it going. Let me know if these are the correct steps to take:
First watch a 3d movie (making sure everything syncs; glasses to emitter)
Second plug the emitter to the pc and run the utility and take an image of the Estar program.
Does the emitter have to be plugged in at the same time it is attached to the projector? If that is the case, I might have to borrow a laptop.

I have yet to setup my projector, probably in few days and my glasses should be coming soon, but I'll try to report as soon as I can.
Thank you very much for sharing you expertise in this field
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post #13 of 33 Old 08-29-2013, 05:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silvereyes View Post

Does the emitter have to be plugged in at the same time it is attached to the projector?

Correct. The Emitter has to be plugging into a projector making 3D to measure the frequency and into a laptop to read out the result.

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post #14 of 33 Old 08-29-2013, 07:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilipSosie View Post

Correct. The Emitter has to be plugging into a projector making 3D to measure the frequency and into a laptop to read out the result.
It might take me a week or so to test this, but I've asked for help in the optoma projector section of this forum, perhaps we will know the answer sooner.
I was curious about the functions of the sliders in the Estar program and about the upgrade tab, can you provide more details about them?
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post #15 of 33 Old 08-29-2013, 08:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silvereyes View Post

It might take me a week or so to test this, but I've asked for help in the optoma projector section of this forum, perhaps we will know the answer sooner.
I was curious about the functions of the sliders in the Estar program and about the upgrade tab, can you provide more details about them?

Thank you for that question -- I've taken a TODO to write a short document with a very good answer and post it. My own website buries an answer on page 33 of the starter kit User's Guide:

http://www.estaramerica.com/assets/esa-esg6100_user-s_guide.pdf

Here's the general idea on the EStar Perforamnce Utility controls:

Delay: this is the delay between when the VESA 1997.11 (3 Pin Stereo Port) has a rising edge that signals "switch from left to right" and when you want the glasses to do it. So if you are using, for example, a FireGL v7700 graphics card, the sync signal matches the video when the signals leave the card. But then the display adds 2 ms latency, so you use the utility (or the joystick) to add 2 ms latency to the sync signal so it matches again.

Duty Cycle. For each single frame, say an 8.3 ms "left" frame out of 120 total frames per second, this is the percentage of that time that the lens is actually open. You would think this should just be 100% all the time, as many of my esteemed competitors assume, but there are times when you really really want to adjust this. In particular, everything Plasma and DLP has at least some ghosting, and the ghost doesn't "phosphoresce" into the whole next frame, it is brightest for, say, the first 1 ms of the next frame and then fades away. To kill the ghost, adjust DELAY up 1 ms so that the lens doesn't open until after the ghosting period, and then reduce the duty cycle to 85% (seven eights of the cycle in this example) so that it closes for the start of the next frame.

Obviously, if you close the lens to reduce ghosting, you also reduce brightness. For DLP you can make the opposite decision: open the lens extra time, get some extra brightness, but stop before the ghosting gets worse than what LCD and Plasma are pushing as acceptable. This is where the "more than 100%" settings are useful - when you've underpowered your projector lamp and need a little extra brightness at the cost of a little 3D ghosting. (Tisk tisk if you do this on an install, but it happens about every time I bring a portable to a meeting.)

Switch Left/Right and Save - self-explanatory? Save means save to Flash in the Emitter.

Upgrade - everything I've shipped is the latest firmware version. This lets you commit the warranty-voiding act of brain-erasing some other brand of BC100 with my firmware, and the emitters will then upgrade the glasses. Bit Cauldron tells me that there are some brands of emitters and glasses out there that are "locked" from being brain-transplanted with my firmware and that this doesn't effect the glasses interop or "restore to factory defaults," but, uh, it makes it easy to upgrade old Brand M and Brand O glasses so that the support workflow matches my documents. The glasses and emitters will still interoperate without the upgrade, the main goal is to ease support.

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post #16 of 33 Old 08-29-2013, 01:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silvereyes View Post

@terry2, I was following your discussion with Philipsosie, he is very informative. I just got the HD25e today, haven't yet mounted it. I was curious, what glasses did you end up getting? I was thinking to go with the zf2100, probably the safest choice. Did you indeed confirm that these can do 144hz? Actually, how can one confirm that? Will an info screen on the optoma provide such information?
I had the Optoma BG-ZF2100GLS glasses which work with the HD25e (as long as you use the Optoma emitter) but returned them. Been using 3DTV Corp Dlp-link glasses last couple of weeks. RF is the way to go on this projector. 3d just looks better (to me) using RF. Just ordered a couple pairs of the EStar America glasses. We'll see how they work out.

*Just got the Estar America RF glasses and emitter. Works fine with the HD25e.
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post #17 of 33 Old 09-01-2013, 03:48 PM
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tucsondave at the Optoma hd25/hd25-lv owners section confirmed that his hd25-lv using Estar software indeed operates at 144hz.
Terry2, beside lower price, how different are the Estar glasses vs the optoma zf2100?
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post #18 of 33 Old 09-01-2013, 05:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silvereyes View Post

tucsondave at the Optoma hd25/hd25-lv owners section confirmed that his hd25-lv using Estar software indeed operates at 144hz.
Terry2, beside lower price, how different are the Estar glasses vs the optoma zf2100?
They seem to be about the same as far as I can tell (maybe a little lighter in weight). Don't have the Optomas anymore to direct compare. Probably made by the same company. Don't have any sync problems and the image looks ok. I certainly don't see paying the Optoma (or VIP) price when these work just as well. I'll get more of these when I can.
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post #19 of 33 Old 09-04-2013, 03:28 PM
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Just got my EStar 3d glasses. They are identical to my Optoma ZF2100 glasses in every way except price, and work fine with the Optoma RF emitter at 144 Hz.
My original Optoma 3D-RF glasses which are rated for 96/100/120 Hz also work fine at 144Hz.

td
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post #20 of 33 Old 11-08-2013, 05:03 PM
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Hi

Having just decided to entered the realms of Home Cinema with my order for the Optoma HD25 LV, and looking to buy at least at first 4 3D glasses, thought the price of the Optoma RF glasses a little belong the pale.

But in my search online just come across this forum and this thread

 

I assume the ESG6000 and starter kit ESG6100 are compatible with my European version of this projector.

Could anybody here confirm that please

and if so, where, other than Amazon.com can you buy them, wont send to Spain :( and cannot find them here in Europe :(

 

Thanks Ian

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post #21 of 33 Old 11-10-2013, 08:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spanglish View Post

Hi
I assume the ESG6000 and starter kit ESG6100 are compatible with my European version of this projector.
Could anybody here confirm that please
and if so, where, other than Amazon.com can you buy them, wont send to Spain frown.gif and cannot find them here in Europe frown.gif

I can confirm that the ESG6000 and ESG6100 are compatible with the European version of the Optoma HD25, and, for that matter, all of the other DLP-Link (for ESG-601) and VESA-Port enabled projectors in Europe. Sources: I went to IFA in Berlin and tested them, plus I can make any frequency I want with a FireGL 7700 and a DepthQ projector.

Unfortunately the Estar America products are not currently available for retail purchase in Europe. I love Europe, but we haven't even gotten selling in Canada up and running yet.

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post #22 of 33 Old 11-11-2013, 05:23 PM
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Thank you for your reply Philip

 

As they are compatible for mu European Optoma Hd24 LV then I'm not sure why Amazon will not send them to Spain

 

Unless the actual RF carrier frequency of the emitter communications is different to that allowed in European

 

or is this acually bluetooth RF in which case its the same.

 

Or if this is your account in Amazon maybe you need to check a box or something to allow amazon to send it international

 

 

thanks ian

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post #23 of 33 Old 11-17-2013, 01:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spanglish View Post

Or if this is your account in Amazon maybe you need to check a box or something to allow amazon to send it international

Ok, I found a box on Amazon and checked it.

Protip: The box will only allow you to check it when viewing Amazon with Internet Explorer.

Please check if 2-3 days and let me know if it allows you to place an order for shipment to Europe. Thank You!

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post #24 of 33 Old 11-18-2013, 03:12 PM
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I'm about to spring for an Optoma HD25-LV and I want to get RF glasses. My choices are:

Optoma BG-ZF2100GLS (or equivalent Optoma, such as their older RF glasses)
EStar ESG6000
Monster 3D MAX

The least expensive of these (new) would be the EStar glasses (currently $54 per pair).

Is this right? Am I missing anything? Any great deals under the radar?
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post #25 of 33 Old 11-19-2013, 07:10 PM
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Hi Phillip

 

Sorry but no it still refuses to allow me to make an order :(

 

Ian

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post #26 of 33 Old 11-19-2013, 07:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fxrh View Post

I'm about to spring for an Optoma HD25-LV and I want to get RF glasses. My choices are:

Optoma BG-ZF2100GLS (or equivalent Optoma, such as their older RF glasses)
EStar ESG6000
Monster 3D MAX

The least expensive of these (new) would be the EStar glasses (currently $54 per pair).

Is this right? Am I missing anything? Any great deals under the radar?

You've pretty much got it. There's the occasional promo codes on the EStar America facebook page...

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post #27 of 33 Old 12-14-2013, 01:21 AM
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Hi,

 

Still no way to order esar america products in europe ?

I'd love to seem them shipped to france before Christmas :-/

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post #28 of 33 Old 03-18-2014, 06:11 AM
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just bringing this up again
I just bought one of these and would love to know what options are out there for Canada

the optoma glasses are not going to fit on my 5 year olds face haha

been working for awhile and still to shy to post my own build thread
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post #29 of 33 Old 05-10-2014, 04:47 PM
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Hi
I've just joined all the upgraders and decided on Optoma HD25 (instead of the W1070). Recently bought the HD25e off eBay at a very good discount.
Now I need to get the RF emitter and glasses.
It seems the best deal would be to get the ES6100 kit with emitter. Does anyone know if this works with 240V in Australia?
Does the emitter also work with the Monster MAX 3D glasses?
Thanks
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post #30 of 33 Old 05-10-2014, 05:23 PM
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I'm a newbie with 3D.
Have been enjoying 2D movies from an old Acer projector rather than large LCD TVs.
To setup 3D, is one emitter sufficient to be used with up to six 3D glasses?
From a price/performance perspective, would anyone recommend ES6100 or VIP starter kit?
Does these glasses work if I run 2D to 3D conversion from the Panasonic BDT330 blu-ray player?
Thanks
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Reply 3D Displays

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Optoma Hd25 Hd 3d Home Theater Projector , Benq W1070 1080p 3d Projector
Gear in this thread - W1070 by PriceGrabber.com

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