Glyph Avegant's Head Mounted Virtual Retinal Display - Page 9 - AVS Forum
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post #241 of 268 Old 02-22-2014, 02:58 AM
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So it is now history: Glyph kickstart managed to jump just over $1.5 million, 6 times initial asking.

As for the competition with the Sony HMZ, Glyph also doubles as a high-end headphones which is very clever. Sony is obviously charging monopoly price for the HMZ but on the other hand its device uses high-density OLEDs which are very expensive as a niche market and thus it may have problem to compete with Glyph since micromirrors are much cheaper. Strength of the Glyph visual is lack of any screen-door effect from discrete pixels. In turn, potential problem of Glyph visual are black levels.
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post #242 of 268 Old 02-22-2014, 10:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irkuck View Post

So it is now history: Glyph kickstart managed to jump just over $1.5 million, 6 times initial asking.

As for the competition with the Sony HMZ, Glyph also doubles as a high-end headphones which is very clever. Sony is obviously charging monopoly price for the HMZ but on the other hand its device uses high-density OLEDs which are very expensive as a niche market and thus it may have problem to compete with Glyph since micromirrors are much cheaper. Strength of the Glyph visual is lack of any screen-door effect from discrete pixels. In turn, potential problem of Glyph visual are black levels.

Feel free to add pertinent additions:
GLYPH:
Good:
• Glyph doubles as high-end headphones and is an all-in-one visual convenience.
• Glyph lacking screen-door effect from discrete pixels, picture is extremely sharp and vivid, 3D images are exceptionally clear
• Virtual screen size: 80 inches from 8 feet.
Bad:
• Glyph DLP technology black-levels - a potential disappointment problem?

HMZ:
Good:
• HMZ uses high density OLEDs, excellent black levels, sharp vivid picture, 3D images are clear, screens virtually
• HMZ 1 decent quality headphones as an all-in-one convenience.
• Virtual screen size: 150 inches from 12 feet.
Bad:
• Twice the price:
• HMZ 2 & 3: inconvenient mandatory optional earphone or accessory plug-in attachments.


Stay tuned for hands-on comparison opinions in December.
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post #243 of 268 Old 02-22-2014, 12:15 PM
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Twice the price for the hmz, I don't think so in the uk, the latest rendition the t3 is 3 times the price of the glyph!! I'm not really a av nerd (sorry, no offence meant) but black levels is not a mega concern, ok I haven't tested the glyph and I have put my money down via the kickstarter and maybe be slightly dissappointed when my glyph arrives but I'm sure it will improve my ps3/ps4 gaming experience at the cost of £300. Having tried the sony hmzt2, comfort was and is a big problem, ok the t3 is supposed to be a bit lighter but not much. Even buying a used hmz t1/t2 or t3 is way more than that on the bay of e. Also being a small business myself, investing in something brand new is kind of exciting, don't you all think?
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post #244 of 268 Old 02-22-2014, 11:17 PM
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^Add to this Glyph is based on a revolutionary idea of eye projection. Eye projection means one is not watching picture-on-something (glass, screen), one is just watching picture-as-picture or picture-on-nothing. This is thus a step toward the Holy Grail of ultimate visualization. Going further, eye projection may have future potential with the compensation of eye optics which is rather primitive. Supporting such potentially revolutionary technology is gratifying for those interested in technology development.
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post #245 of 268 Old 02-24-2014, 09:26 AM
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post #246 of 268 Old 02-24-2014, 11:25 AM
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please pardon my ignorance irkuck but is this chipset the one that has been used in the alpha gylph that has been doing the round the world tour or is it a brand new chipset that is going to be used in the beta kickstarter glyph and if so, is it going to improve even more the picture quality and efficiency? What are your views and opinions?
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post #247 of 268 Old 02-24-2014, 01:09 PM
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^As far as I see this is the chip which is used in Glyph and one can speculate the very Glyph concept is based on this chip. Looking at the chip data one can see it is extraordinarily small at 0.31" and its pixel pitch is just 5.4 micrometer which BTW clearly illustrates why the Glyph principle of eye projection is radically different. Very tiny spacing between the micromirrors could be a major factor why there is no screen door effect at all. Main intended application of this chip are microprojectors e.g. in portable devices. Standard DMD chips which Texas Instruments makes for digital projectors tend to be quite much bigger. For example the current full 1080p chip has three times the size at 0.95", this indicates that any future increasing of the Glyph resolution using such chip would require complete redesign of the projection system, may not be as free from screen door effect and would be much bigger. This however is entirely my guess without any substance behind it.
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post #248 of 268 Old 02-24-2014, 02:55 PM
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irkuck,
thanks for posting the TI link.

gareth,
no idea if that chip is in the beta or not. I spent a little time trying to identify the part numbers on the clear plastic pre-alpha prototype pictures. It is pretty easy to see the DLP logo, but could not really read off any part numbers.

One of the most exciting things in the info is a 17 degree tilt for the mirrors. AFAIK, most (all?) DLP chips only have a 12 degree tilt, like the high end .95” 1080p DLP chip.

Also cool to see some info on Content Adaptive Illumination Control & Local Area Brightness Boost described in the processing chip docs. Just hope we can turn them off. I did just ask a question on the Kickstarter page, so will be interesting to see if we can get any more info.
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post #249 of 268 Old 02-24-2014, 03:50 PM
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So now u can preorder it? cool.gif well that seems a better option to pay when they shipp it.
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post #250 of 268 Old 02-24-2014, 11:45 PM
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^That may look as better option only for those who treat this as buying-of-yet-another-product. In this case an even better option is to wait when the Kickstarter investors get their samples and general opinion will emerge about the Glyph. Investors are not only motivated by a buying urge, they want to help a startup with launching a product based on a revolutionary new principle and thus conributing to the potential revolution. This involves risk which in this case is minimized by the fact that a big company (Texas Instruments) is providing full set of new and unique hardware components.Without this, the product would be just a pipe dream.
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post #251 of 268 Old 03-21-2014, 12:59 PM
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Its been a while since any posts, but the sony morpeaus or something like that, has landed, no eta or price but greater field of view at 90 degrees and 1080p, thoughts? I know its not a direct competitor to the glyph!
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post #252 of 268 Old 03-24-2014, 12:58 PM
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This new eyes-in review of Oculus Rift points to where Glyph should have inherent visual advantage, and the essence is: The first Oculus Rift was so low-resolution that everything seemed a little blurry (like a Nintendo GameCube).The image is now clearer, but in the demo that I was playing, it felt like I was looking at a 3D lenticular display in which the image had this typical glasses-less 3D TV feel – very much like a Nintendo 3DS. I was surprised, and this makes the overall image quality seem less than the 960×1080 pixel per eye should provide.
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post #253 of 268 Old 03-24-2014, 08:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gareth 1970 View Post

Its been a while since any posts, but the sony morpeaus or something like that, has landed, no eta or price but greater field of view at 90 degrees and 1080p, thoughts? I know its not a direct competitor to the glyph!
The only thing about the PS4 virtual reality headset that comes to mind is the lack of 3D capability and how they can still call it virtual reality when it is only 2D?
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post #254 of 268 Old 03-25-2014, 05:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Paul H View Post

The only thing about the PS4 virtual reality headset that comes to mind is the lack of 3D capability and how they can still call it virtual reality when it is only 2D?

3d is absolutely essential for vr and sony's vr device is 3d capable. Its odd that sony didnt mention this on their reveal. Maybe they were trying to avoid the term 3d because the negative baggage it carries? Anyway, sony demos were in 3d and Shuhei Yoshida later confirmed its 3d capable.
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post #255 of 268 Old 03-25-2014, 08:33 AM
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Originally Posted by perkele View Post

3d is absolutely essential for vr and sony's vr device is 3d capable. Its odd that sony didnt mention this on their reveal. Maybe they were trying to avoid the term 3d because the negative baggage it carries? Anyway, sony demos were in 3d and Shuhei Yoshida later confirmed its 3d capable.
Interesting since this was posted on another site:
Source
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post #256 of 268 Old 03-25-2014, 10:01 AM
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That is certainly interesting. I took the 3d part for granted and saw Yoshida's comment later on neogaf. Couldn find it now(at work so limited time), but at least found this:

http://www.dualshockers.com/2014/03/19/sonys-shuhei-yoshida-morpheus-is-3d-by-default-gives-lots-of-info-on-ps4s-new-vr-headset/

Ill try to find that Yoshida's interview later tonight.

edit: Yoshida tweeted about it too. Its his official channel.
https://twitter.com/yosp/status/446174408281833472
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post #257 of 268 Old 03-26-2014, 07:38 AM
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Really big news with the Oculus/Facebook deal. In reading some comments on the webs, it sounds like this is perceived as a big negative.
I think the resources that Facebook brings to the table are a huge win for the HMD space. Having that kind of backing has to make everything like visibility, recruiting high quality talent, negotiating with suppliers, getting a retail presence considerably easier.

Hopefully, Oculus continues to develop a pure VR headset. I totally expect that Oculus will get into the augmented reality/google glass space shortly. I also really wonder what kind of cut Palmer gets. Really a long way from his pre-Oculus posts on MTBS3D about his collection of HDMs and PR1 and PR2 protos.

Hope the Avegant team can continue to focus on the Kickstarter…can’t wait to have this tech in my hands.

One of the other big advantages of the Glyph over the new Sony and Crystal Cove is portability. Who knows when the Sony is actually going to be out. The Crystal Cove is tempting considering the price & ship date, but don’t think I’m going to order one. I don’t like pixels and want a portable solution smile.gif
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post #258 of 268 Old 03-30-2014, 01:12 PM
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so, while we are waiting until December, who has good ideas for a high quality portable media player for the glyph?

I have a raspberry pi that does a decent job with 720p blu-ray encodes using raspbmc, but cant playback full blu-ray and is sort of laggy.
yes, glyph is only 720p, but having the flexibility to not have to re-encode material would be nice.
the one thing that I dont like about my asus tablet - I have not figured out a way to have the screen off while playing back over hdmi.

The CUBOX-I4PRO has been getting some decent reviews for blu-ray playback using XBMC. has a good port selection, including eSata and usb2.0 and only uses ~3amps @ 5 volts.
pairing with a battery pack like this (4.5 amp max output) should provide enough power and allow for Glyph charging.

3D bluray would also be cool, but not sure if any non-windows solution exists.

A smaller, more stick/Chromecast form factor would be even better, but I have not found anything with great reviews. anyone have any good ideas here?
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post #259 of 268 Old 03-31-2014, 12:06 AM
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I will rely on a smartphone as a portable media device, maybe the new sony xperia z2, and also use the ipad. I'm not sure if they're powerful enough to run 3d movies but I will worry after I get the glyph, technology is always improving so I hope something will be available by then. And I will be using these forums for good advice, as usual ;-) .
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post #260 of 268 Old 06-13-2014, 10:53 AM - Thread Starter
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It looks like that until December, this thread isn't going to have much news. hehe

So what would you guys like to see on Glyph that isn't already there?
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post #261 of 268 Old 06-25-2014, 01:44 PM
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Originally Posted by MrDrWatson View Post
I will rely on a smartphone as a portable media device, maybe the new sony xperia z2, and also use the ipad. I'm not sure if they're powerful enough to run 3d movies but I will worry after I get the glyph, technology is always improving so I hope something will be available by then. And I will be using these forums for good advice, as usual ;-) .

Your smartphone is your VR device, now and for free
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post #262 of 268 Old 07-02-2014, 09:04 AM
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The one Glyph option that would be totally amazing would be an adjustable FOV. Unfortunately, based prior discussion on this topic, this would add a ton of complexity to the design. And it sounds like Avegant is trying to minimize the visor footprint as much as possible.

This wait is starting to feel looooong. The campaign ended on Feb 21. Based on a random guess of delivery by Dec 21, we still have 20 days to go before the half way point – then another 151 days to go

Hopefully Avegant can deliver by the end of the year. Maybe I’ll make one of those paper chain crafty things, like to countdown days to summer vacation during elementary school.

The lenses for Google cardboard are finally in stock on Amazon – I just placed an order. Delivery is estimated between 14-31 days…should be fun to try out, but not really expecting much. I also have an extra 9 Neodymium magnets…let me know if anyone is looking for one.

Still not quite sure what I’ll use for my main portable source. I’m thinking a surface 2/3 pro with MPC-HC/mad-VR/LAV filters would be one of the best options. I’d really prefer a 8” windows tablet, but the magic combo of digitizer, HDMI out & sd card does not exist. Maybe by December….
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post #263 of 268 Old 07-06-2014, 07:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CARTmen View Post
It looks like that until December, this thread isn't going to have much news. hehe So what would you guys like to see on Glyph that isn't already there?
Would be fine to have wireless Glyph. So either a built-in miniature media player with wireless connectivity to smartphone storing content, or a miniature wireless hdmi connection.
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post #264 of 268 Old 07-06-2014, 08:09 AM - Thread Starter
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The problem with wireless is the battery. It would need a external battery like HMZ-T3, so you would still need a cable.
The problem with the glyph is that all those things people are asking for can't be implemented in the beta version, and for the tips they give us in the forum and the kickstarter page, it seems that they aren't going to launch a new version of glyph before 2016, so, no wireless or big screen for movies or VR experience till then.
The glyph seems a good device with an interesting technology, but as the time passes and we are waiting to receive it, I'm starting to think how much could be done to improve it.
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post #265 of 268 Old 07-21-2014, 04:40 PM
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I setup my Google cardboard this weekend. As a $15 tech demo, this thing is awesome. As a consumer electronic device..well, it is made from cardboard, tape and Velcro.


I’m using a MotoX with only a 720p screen, so pixels and screen door are very noticeable. The lens quality is ok, but not great. Focus is not consistent across the image and I’m not able to see the entire image width with each eye. I’m sure some compromises were made to accommodate multiple screen sizes and phone form factors.

All that said, the experience of integrated head tracking alone was well worth the price of admission. Simply being able to rotate your head in 360 degrees and look around is pretty amazing - especially with Photo Sphere and the Palace of Versailles tour on the cardboard app. Both provide a significant immersion factor. it felt very natural to want to walk around the scene these apps create…some sort of body position tracking along with an open space to walk around has to be a natural progression for this kind of stuff.

More cool content on http://vr.chromeexperiments.com/#/desktop that you can preview w/o a headset. The Bears and Great Barrier Reef 360 degree videos are really cool.

I also demoed a few movies using the SBSVideoPlayer app in the Play store. The nice thing about this app is the zoom function – the screen capture below is the zoom I used to be able to see the entire image from side to side, but the downside is only a 480x255 resolution image per eye. The experience was oddly similar to viewing stuff on the HMZ-T3 in terms of field of view and image size. The lens also give the image a nice curved screen effect, a feature that I really liked on the T3. The quality (and comfort) is not at the watch-a-full-movie level, but still surprisingly fun.


I read about the Durvois Open Dive a while ago and never really gave it any serious thought. Based on my experience with Cardboard, I’m considering getting one. I did get a quote for a local shop to 3D print, but it was super high at over $400. I’ll probably do some more investigation on printing options this week or might just order one when they are back in stock.

this is a bit long for an off topic post, but I’d totally recommend checking this out for anyone who is waiting on a Glyph and has a compatible smartphone. I ordered my lenses from amazon and did DIY cardboard, but this looks like a decent deal (no first hand experience, found link on the Cardboard google+ page).

Totally going to need a good head tracking solution identified by December…
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post #266 of 268 Old 10-22-2014, 11:05 AM - Thread Starter
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Here we have fresh news about the Glyph. With news like this I don't bother to wait a bit more time for my Glyph to arrive.

http://www.engadget.com/2014/10/22/a...eater-headset/
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post #267 of 268 Old 12-12-2014, 11:51 AM
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Preorderd one as few weeks back need a netflix bed device ...
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post #268 of 268 Old Yesterday, 06:55 PM
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Great fall of 2015 now ... canned my order
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