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post #31 of 69 Old 06-08-2014, 07:49 PM
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Can this technology eventually translate to projectors?

No.
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post #32 of 69 Old 06-08-2014, 08:36 PM
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Originally Posted by 73shark View Post

Can this technology eventually translate to projectors?

No.

Bummer. One can always dream.

In space, no one can hear you scream . . .
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post #33 of 69 Old 06-08-2014, 11:58 PM
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There may be alternatives to Ultra-D on the horizon for front projection:
https://newsoffice.mit.edu/2014/glasses-free-3-d-projector-0516
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post #34 of 69 Old 06-09-2014, 12:39 AM
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Originally Posted by fitbrit View Post

There may be alternatives to Ultra-D on the horizon for front projection:
https://newsoffice.mit.edu/2014/glasses-free-3-d-projector-0516

I was about to post that. Next time it might be better to do some research before blithely saying "No" on a topic which you're not familiar with.

I'll be attending the MIT lecture at this year's Siggraph on this topic, and will share my findings here. Hopefully they'll have videos (of the talk, not the image obviously).
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post #35 of 69 Old 06-09-2014, 09:18 AM
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Originally Posted by RLBURNSIDE View Post

I was about to post that. Next time it might be better to do some research before blithely saying "No" on a topic which you're not familiar with.

I'll be attending the MIT lecture at this year's Siggraph on this topic, and will share my findings here. Hopefully they'll have videos (of the talk, not the image obviously).

Firstly, the question I responded to was about 'this technology', which (even in the thread title) refers to Ultra-D. This is patently not transferrable to front projection, as has been discussed in numerous previous threads about Ultra-D. Since I was on my phone, I answered the question 100% accurately, but tersely. Later, when I had access to a full size keyboard, I linked to supplementary information from MIT, which I have known about since it was announced publicly, and was possibly consistent with what 73Shark wanted to achieve in the future regardless of the technology utilised.
Next time it might be better to read what is being asked and not make assumptions about what the responder is familiar with before blithely and wrongly chastising someone you are not familiar with.

I'm sorry I stole your thunder by posting the link before you did. I hope I didn't rob you of any perceived justification to spew even more vitriol as you slash down my fragile ego with an internet post that (kind of) refuted mine. I hate it when that happens.

Joking and sarcasm aside, we'll be interested to hear what was shown by MIT at Siggraph.
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post #36 of 69 Old 06-10-2014, 03:46 AM
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so it's like watching a box inside a box ? no thanks
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post #37 of 69 Old 06-10-2014, 05:26 AM - Thread Starter
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so it's like watching a box inside a box ? no thanks

 

It's like watching 3D on a TV, just no glasses. Unless you literally watch video of a box, that is.

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post #38 of 69 Old 06-10-2014, 04:34 PM
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I looked at the youtube "Clips SBS" using the youtube app on my new Samsung hu8550 (active 3d). I was youtube viewer #59. I did see some 3d effect for the table and TV stand, but no 3d for the TV screen, though the depicted picture seemed nice enough. (I've looked at sbs 3d from DirecTV using this set, and that looked very 3d.)

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post #39 of 69 Old 06-10-2014, 04:42 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by GregLee View Post

I looked at the youtube "Clips SBS" using the youtube app on my new Samsung hu8550 (active 3d). I was youtube viewer #59. I did see some 3d effect for the table and TV stand, but no 3d for the TV screen, though the depicted picture seemed nice enough. (I've looked at sbs 3d from DirecTV using this set, and that looked very 3d.)

 

The 3D effect did not translate well to video, it was worth a try.


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post #40 of 69 Old 06-12-2014, 07:08 AM
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Personally I could watch everything in 3D all the time and to some extend I do. With that in mind I'm a little dismayed about how little 2D to 3D conversion is talked about on this forum. I fully realize that some dismiss it out of hand; however, there are a few processors (very few from my experience) that do an admirable job with 2D to 3D real-time conversion. I know that these T.V.s will have 2D to 3D conversion and I am wondering if it is effective? If I want to watch some favourite 2D movies in 3D will it be worth the effort? I'm watching my favourite 2D movies now in 3D (obviously with glasses) and I am really enjoying the experience. Will glasses-free 3D conversion take that experience up a notch?

Thanks for any input.

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post #41 of 69 Old 06-12-2014, 07:12 AM - Thread Starter
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Personally I could watch everything in 3D all the time and to some extend I do. With that in mind I'm a little dismayed about how little 2D to 3D conversion is talked about on this forum. I fully realize that some dismiss it out of hand; however, there are a few processors (very few from my experience) that do an admirable job with 2D to 3D real-time conversion. I know that these T.V.s will have 2D to 3D conversion and I am wondering if it is effective? If I want to watch some favourite 2D movies in 3D will it be worth the effort. I'm watching my favourite 2D movies now in 3D (obviously with glasses) and really enjoying the experience. Will glasses-free 3D conversion take that experience up a notch?

Thanks for any input.
2D to 3D conversion is dependent on the processor/algorithm and is not directly related to the display technology itself. My PC (PowerDVD) and my BDP can convert 2D to 3D, but so can Ultra-D. Ultra-D's 2D to 3D conversion is very effective, better than the other two options I have. That technology will keep improving and processors become more powerful and the algorithms for conversion are refined.

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post #42 of 69 Old 06-14-2014, 12:54 AM
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Mark, did Leo Riley or any other contacts of yours give any indications of international demo locations for the near-final screens before Q4 and Q1 roll around?
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post #43 of 69 Old 06-22-2014, 09:27 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by dabotsonline View Post
Mark, did Leo Riley or any other contacts of yours give any indications of international demo locations for the near-final screens before Q4 and Q1 roll around?
No, I'm afraid not. I'm going to let the whole Ultra-D thing rest for a little while unless I see... in person... a genuine pre-production or actual production Ultra-D unit. Interestingly, this week will mark one year since I first met leo at CE Week in NYC.

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post #44 of 69 Old 06-26-2014, 09:07 AM
 
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Originally Posted by imagic View Post
No, I'm afraid not. I'm going to let the whole Ultra-D thing rest for a little while unless I see... in person... a genuine pre-production or actual production Ultra-D unit. Interestingly, this week will mark one year since I first met leo at CE Week in NYC.
I don't know why but I am saddened by your statement.
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post #45 of 69 Old 06-27-2014, 11:40 AM
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Originally Posted by imagic View Post
No, I'm afraid not. I'm going to let the whole Ultra-D thing rest for a little while unless I see... in person... a genuine pre-production or actual production Ultra-D unit. Interestingly, this week will mark one year since I first met leo at CE Week in NYC.
I've basically given up on Ultra-D being available any time soon. I've moved on and purchased a Teranex 3D processor and I'm now watching all my 2D movies converted to 3D. Life is just too short. I wonder if tomorrow will ever come for Ultra-D?
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I've basically given up on Ultra-D being available any time soon. I've moved on and purchased a Teranex 3D processor and I'm now watching all my 2D movies converted to 3D. Life is just too short. I wonder if tomorrow will ever come for Ultra-D?
Teranex 3D processor? Wow. You, my friend, is a true enthusiast. And I mean that in a very best way.
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post #47 of 69 Old 06-28-2014, 02:36 PM
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Any links to reviews of the Teranex 3D Processor? I would like to see the 3D results of this machine.
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post #48 of 69 Old 07-04-2014, 04:50 PM
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Any links to reviews of the Teranex 3D Processor? I would like to see the 3D results of this machine.
Here's the only review I could end and its actually only comments from a person who writes for Homecinemaguru.

http://www.homecinemaguru.com/blackm...deo-processor/
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post #49 of 69 Old 07-06-2014, 06:30 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Deja Vu View Post
I've basically given up on Ultra-D being available any time soon. I've moved on and purchased a Teranex 3D processor and I'm now watching all my 2D movies converted to 3D. Life is just too short. I wonder if tomorrow will ever come for Ultra-D?
You can still use a processor like that when glasses-free 3D hits the market, regardless of whether Ultra-D gets there first, or if Dolby Vision gets there first. It looks pretty awesome.

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post #50 of 69 Old 08-07-2014, 03:31 AM
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Originally Posted by imagic View Post
No, I'm afraid not. I'm going to let the whole Ultra-D thing rest for a little while unless I see... in person... a genuine pre-production or actual production Ultra-D unit. Interestingly, this week will mark one year since I first met leo at CE Week in NYC.
Mark, I'm going to IFA in Berlin on Saturday 6th September only. Do you know if a genuine pre-production Ultra-D TV will be on display there? If it is a hush-hush viewing, is there any chance you could put a good word in?! (I'll be meeting with Mr Kimura and Mr Urakawa from Panasonic Japan and I'm sure that if they see direct evidence of consumer excitement towards the technology in near-final form then that could influence product decisions in the next couple of years). Stream TV and SeeCubic talked before about implementing the technology in monitors, laptops, tablets and phones in addition to LCD screens and it would be good to see even prototypes of that and whether the processing can be turned off as you have been assured will be the case with the retail TVs. You also mentioned before that all retail TVs will be Full Array Local Dimming 4K sets, but I would also like to see if the technology will feature in OLED TVs which are, of course, self-emissive.

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post #51 of 69 Old 08-14-2014, 01:29 AM
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Ultra-D's 2D to 3D conversion is very effective, better than the other two options I have. That technology will keep improving and processors become more powerful and the algorithms for conversion are refined.
Which is why I wish Ultra-D had stuck with an outboard box for processing: such devices can be more easily replaced or upgraded by the consumer as technology improves, compared with a TV. It also might mean an earlier release if some consumers were prepared to purchase with a larger box using current processors than wait until more condensed versions could be fitted inside the TVs, then replace the boxes once more powerful or compact devices were available. I doubt the panel hardware itself will evolve much, but I could see algorithms and processor power improving greatly, allowing much better results.

One of the things I would like to see is excellent frame interpolation and colorimetry calibration built-in to the processor box.

If pricing was right, I could happily live with an extra box if it meant excellent 3D that could be cheaply upgraded.

I think the Ultra-D technology could be adapted to any "sample and hold" display device, so it could be extended naturally to OLED when 4k is finally released. The only disadvantage is the limitations inherent in any particular display technology (such as the poor black levels of LCD and in particular IPS).

I'm still trying to get my head around how the Ultra-D technology works, even after a lengthy youtube explanation. ;-)
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post #52 of 69 Old 09-28-2014, 09:23 AM
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I'm starting to suspect that the "D" in Ulta-D stands for dead. Nothing at CEDIA and not a whisper on this forum for a couple of months. Glasses-free 3D T.V. may be coming but I'm not holding my breath. I won't throw away my 3D glasses just yet.
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post #53 of 69 Old 09-29-2014, 10:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Deja Vu View Post
I'm starting to suspect that the "D" in Ulta-D stands for dead. Nothing at CEDIA and not a whisper on this forum for a couple of months. Glasses-free 3D T.V. may be coming but I'm not holding my breath. I won't throw away my 3D glasses just yet.
I just can't see where passive glasses-free 3D can offer the superior 3D PQ & performance of active-shutter glasses. If others believe differently, then please explain it to me.
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post #54 of 69 Old 10-06-2014, 10:01 PM
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I just can't see where passive glasses-free 3D can offer the superior 3D PQ & performance of active-shutter glasses.
As I understand it, Ultra-D creates multiple partial views using all the distance cues available, not just stereopsis. This includes motion revealing additional information in background objects obscured by foreground objects that you can't see at a fixed point in time. Consequently, the partial views contain more information than the 2D frames sent to each eye with glasses 3D and means one can change position relative to the display and see a different perspective of the 3D objects, perhaps revealing more detail that is otherwise hidden by objects in the foreground. If you change position with 3D glasses, you never get to see detail that is obscured as all 3D objects don't change just become foreshortened.

It's the equivalent of scanning 360 degrees around an object to create a 3D model: the different perspective of each 2D image over time allows more of the hidden information of the object (compared with a static 2D photo) to be revealed. Ultra-D uses the few additional frames due to motion over time to present a little more of the hidden information than is the case with just stereopsis.

These partial views mean that each person arranged around an Ultra-D set will see a slightly different perspective and by moving relative to the display will see objects more as if they are actual 3D objects that appear to change with relative position (which also gives them a better sense of solidity, in theory).

Whether this ability to show more information as though one was moving relative to actual 3D objects translates to better perceived PQ will have to remain conjecture until more people have reviewed it and with evolution of the process.
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post #55 of 69 Old 10-07-2014, 05:17 AM - Thread Starter
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As I understand it, Ultra-D creates multiple partial views using all the distance cues available, not just stereopsis. This includes motion revealing additional information in background objects obscured by foreground objects that you can't see at a fixed point in time. Consequently, the partial views contain more information than the 2D frames sent to each eye with glasses 3D and means one can change position relative to the display and see a different perspective of the 3D objects, perhaps revealing more detail that is otherwise hidden by objects in the foreground. If you change position with 3D glasses, you never get to see detail that is obscured as all 3D objects don't change just become foreshortened.

It's the equivalent of scanning 360 degrees around an object to create a 3D model: the different perspective of each 2D image over time allows more of the hidden information of the object (compared with a static 2D photo) to be revealed. Ultra-D uses the few additional frames due to motion over time to present a little more of the hidden information than is the case with just stereopsis.

These partial views mean that each person arranged around an Ultra-D set will see a slightly different perspective and by moving relative to the display will see objects more as if they are actual 3D objects that appear to change with relative position (which also gives them a better sense of solidity, in theory).

Whether this ability to show more information as though one was moving relative to actual 3D objects translates to better perceived PQ will have to remain conjecture until more people have reviewed it and with evolution of the process.
UltraD does not offer holographic views where you can look around objects. I tested that thoroughly.

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post #56 of 69 Old 10-07-2014, 06:07 AM
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UltraD does not offer holographic views where you can look around objects. I tested that thoroughly.
I wasn't talking about being able to look around objects even 90 degrees because the camera is always located well in front of the scene: the effect would be subtle, possibly revealing small amounts of background image when moving to the side that aren't visible face on (but it's dependent on motion in the scene revealing the information).

This is as I understand from listening to the creators describe the process. Since I haven't been able to see one in person, I can't confirm whether the effect is genuine.
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post #57 of 69 Old 10-07-2014, 09:00 AM
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This was a "feature" we asked Mark to check some time back, because it sounded so unique. He said he didn't see any evidence of it. I'd love to believe that Ultra-D makes improvements over and above stereopsis, but I've yet to hear anyone other than the developers describe a difference. That said, if Ultra-D "zones" (26 of them) look more convincingly 3D from the side than regular stereoscopic 3D, that would be a tangible improvement. Still, until someone reports seeing something like this (and can describe it), it's just talk.

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post #58 of 69 Old 10-07-2014, 10:08 AM - Thread Starter
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This was a "feature" we asked Mark to check some time back, because it sounded so unique. He said he didn't see any evidence of it. I'd love to believe that Ultra-D makes improvements over and above stereopsis, but I've yet to hear anyone other than the developers describe a difference. That said, if Ultra-D "zones" (26 of them) look more convincingly 3D from the side than regular stereoscopic 3D, that would be a tangible improvement. Still, until someone reports seeing something like this (and can describe it), it's just talk.
Well, whatever happens tomorrow, one thing is different from the last time I checked one out... I have a Samsung F8500. It's 3D quality is so damned good, it sets the bar considerably higher than my previous 3D TV, a passive Vizio.

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post #59 of 69 Old 10-07-2014, 12:50 PM
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Well, whatever happens tomorrow, one thing is different from the last time I checked one out... I have a Samsung F8500. It's 3D quality is so damned good, it sets the bar considerably higher than my previous 3D TV, a passive Vizio.
Some friends bought an F8500 about a year and a half ago. The first thing I wanted to check was the 3D, so they humored me. He has only one good eye because of early on-set macular degeneration and can't see 3D at all. She could care less about TV in general.

The little 3D that I saw on the F8500 looked great - far better than on my older Samsung plasma. But the LG EA9800 OLED has tremendous passive 3D, even though it loses half its vertical resolution due to the FPR on the screen. Several months ago, I thought my next set would be an Ultra-D, but I got tired of waiting and bought the LG OLED. Perhaps 2015 is the perfect time for all the technological elements to come together to create a high quality glasses-free 3D experience: 4K, OLED, Ultra-D. Here's hoping. Unfortunately, the last time I held my breath for Ultra-D, I passed out - so I won't be doing that again.

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post #60 of 69 Old 10-09-2014, 03:08 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by fitbrit

Quote: Originally Posted by 73shark

Can this technology eventually translate to projectors?


No.


Bummer. One can always dream.
It will take a while and it will be rearprojected but its in the works.
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