4k 3d tv's will reinvigorate 3d for us all - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 17 Old 08-31-2014, 07:45 AM - Thread Starter
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4k 3d tv's will reinvigorate 3d for us all

I have found the best reason to buy a 4k set is 3d. Some 4k sets are capable of producing full 1080p resolution to each eye with wonderful brightness and little to no cross talk.

Now i use the hu9000 myself. It is an active 4k set that is voted the top 2014 3d set. It has very little crosstalk.

Last ywars was the Sony x900a. A passive set.


I also found the lg 4k passive sets to be very impressive with 3d.

I sometimes fund when watching 3d in a theater to picture sometimes can look 2d.

Sure the biggest moments of the film are great looking but the rest can fall flat.

On a 4k set the 3d is almost forced upon you. What i mean by that is the picture will never look 2d.

It is always a very deep and effective 3d.

Spiderman 2, Most all animation recent, thor 2, ripd, seventh son, pacific rim, i mean i have never seen 3d like i do now.

I am a huge 3d fan. Now im a huge 3d hobbyist.
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post #2 of 17 Old 08-31-2014, 08:37 AM
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I have a 2013 model Sony 65" 4k passive set and would generally agree with your comments about 4k passive sets, Mrorange303. A bright, flicker-free, 3D image. A delight to watch!

However, I have found that the vertical viewing angle is very critical to minimize ghosting. And I have found viewing distance critical for a feeling of immersion. A little too far away and the actors can somehow look too small.

I was not happy viewing 3D on 2k passive displays: a fine pattern of thin black horizontal lines, and noticeable aliasing.

Full HD 3D on my 2013 model Sony 65" 4k passive set is practically artifact free. (Note: this is not the case if the film-type patterned retarder has a coarse resolution, e.g. the FPR used on the 2013 model Sony 55" 4k passive set.)

Higher resolution/frame rate than Blu-ray

I have viewed some 3D stills taken with my Fujifim FinePix REAL 3D W3 camera, with better than 1920 pixel horizontal resolution using Bino player to read the mpo still. (PC desktop set to 3840x2160, player input mode "Alternating, left first", player output mode "Even/odd rows".)

I look forward to viewing some Full HD 3D at 60p, though I haven't stumbled across any such file as yet, i.e. genuine 1920 + 1920 at 60p.
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post #3 of 17 Old 08-31-2014, 09:10 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by MLXXX View Post
I have a 2013 model Sony 65" 4k passive set and would generally agree with your comments about 4k passive sets, Mrorange303. A bright, flicker-free, 3D image. A delight to watch!

However, I have found that the vertical viewing angle is very critical to minimize ghosting. And I have found viewing distance critical for a feeling of immersion. A little too far away and the actors can somehow look too small.

I was not happy viewing 3D on 2k passive displays: a fine pattern of thin black horizontal lines, and noticeable aliasing.

Full HD 3D on my 2013 model Sony 65" 4k passive set is practically artifact free. (Note: this is not the case if the film-type patterned retarder has a coarse resolution, e.g. the FPR used on the 2013 model Sony 55" 4k passive set.)

Higher resolution/frame rate than Blu-ray

I have viewed some 3D stills taken with my Fujifim FinePix REAL 3D W3 camera, with better than 1920 pixel horizontal resolution using Bino player to read the mpo still. (PC desktop set to 3840x2160, player input mode "Alternating, left first", player output mode "Even/odd rows".)

I look forward to viewing some Full HD 3D at 60p, though I haven't stumbled across any such file as yet, i.e. genuine 1920 + 1920 at 60p.
For a full year i wanted the x900a for the reason it was the best 3d ever.

The only difference i have found in 3d between the x900a and my hu9000 is brightness. The hu9000 is brighter.

I also would love to find 1080p 60hz 3d. Its nice to have sets that can do it.

I hope more people actually try 3d on a 4k set.

It is the best movie expirience i have ever had.
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post #4 of 17 Old 08-31-2014, 10:30 AM
 
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I beg to differ. The best generally accepted reason for the lack of 3D success in home market has been the glasses. One still has to wear glasses for 4K 3D. The picture may be prettier but it's still the same song and dance.

Unless something disruptive comes along, i.e., glasses-free 3D TV, I predict the home 3D will be in the same funk that it's in now.
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post #5 of 17 Old 08-31-2014, 12:52 PM - Thread Starter
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I beg to differ. The best generally accepted reason for the lack of 3D success in home market has been the glasses. One still has to wear glasses for 4K 3D. The picture may be prettier but it's still the same song and dance.

Unless something disruptive comes along, i.e., glasses-free 3D TV, I predict the home 3D will be in the same funk that it's in now.
The results will change the minds of those who have not expirienced the 4k difference.

The right set and player play a very big role.

I have a HU9000 and a Panasonic Bdt360. I do not upscale from the player. Let the tv do its thing.

But the player has a better 3d and 2d picture than my xbox one and ps4.

So the set up matters. I took the ps4 to the room. Too many boxes.

But if you happen to get it right. There is no question its worth it.
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post #6 of 17 Old 09-02-2014, 02:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Apostate View Post
Unless something disruptive comes along, i.e., glasses-free 3D TV, I predict the home 3D will be in the same funk that it's in now.
The "something disruptive" may be high frame rate and high resolution 3D.

This is from the webpage http://www.hfrmovies.com/high-frame-...xample-videos/
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10) Polish production company FlyFilm has created a great demonstration video showcasing variable frame rates. The frame rate in the below video is 50 fps during fast action, and is 25 fps (still playing the 50 fps file, but dropping every other frame) when the onscreen movement slows down.

The below archive contains left and right eye video feeds, and can be viewed in stereoscopic 3D with Stereoscopic Player.

Download it from Sendpace here.
I generally prefer Bino to Stereoscopic player. If you set your desktop to 50p and play the left and right files of the Flyfilm demo as a stereoscopic pair, the superiority of 50p over 25p will be quite apparent. For 2D it doesn't seem to matter as much. For 3D, a high frame rate is very beneficial. Peter Jackson made the right decision with the Hobbit movies to use 48fps for the 3D, but naysayers* jumped on him for doing so. With care, 24fps 3D can work, but it requires very slow pans and generally slow action. In Avatar, there is a scene early in the film where the commander addresses the new recruits. As he walks in to give his speech, only his boots can be seen, moving across the floor. There is a strobing effect as the movement of the boots is too fast for 24fps and 3D. Had James Cameron been permitted to use 48fps or 60fps, the boots would have stayed intact visually when viewed in 3D.

The other factor is resolution. Human eyes need fine detail to process 3D parallax. Attempting to broadcast the London Olympic games in 3D with half side by side 1920x1080i50 was a flop in the UK. The i50 was not as good as p50 would have been if technically feasible. And the 960 + 960 pixels for Left and Right compromised the horizontal resolution.

In the US, sport at half height 1280x720p60, or half width 1920x1080i60 has not been ideal.

A further factor is the timing discrepancy introduced by shutter glasses. Perhaps OLED will allow higher alternation rates. I find the timing discrepancy from shutter glasses operating at 100Hz for a 50p source hard to tolerate. I find the usual 120Hz shutter glasses rate for a 60p or 24p source tolerable, and the 144Hz of RealD cinema smoother again. I suspect 240Hz would be a good rate to aim for, allowing a double flash of left and right for a 60p 3D source, i.e. LRLR for each frame.

I believe that unless and until frame rate and resolution are addressed, even glasses-free 3D would not appeal to many viewers for watching sport on TV. The lack of temporal and spatial detail would cause frustration.

Passive 3D 4K sets immediately overcome the timing discrepancy issue as the timing discrepancy between Left and Right with passive 3D sets is nil. We are still in need of high frame rate 3D source material. This is also tied up with the need for video codecs that are more efficient and graphics cards that can provide hardware acceleration at high frame rates and high resolution for 3D. (There is a big jump in pixel rate going from Full HD 3D at 24fps and Full HD 3D at 60fps. And attempting this at 4k instead of Full HD will require a further 4 fold increase in pixel rate.)

_________

* The media love to report negatively. And people love to read about failure. The handful of people I know who saw either of the two Hobbit movies released so far had no issue with the 48fps 3D. I relished it myself: beautifully fluid. The reporting concentrated on the negative impressions of some moviegoers, and pretty much ignored the positive impressions of other moviegoers. It will be interesting in 10 or 20 years to look back at this era of the transition from 24fps to higher frame rates, even for 2D. 4k will be a catalyst for a change to higher frame rates. 4k at 24fps even for 2D creates extremely obvious panning jitter/judder and blurring, defeating the otherwise high resolution of 4k.
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post #7 of 17 Old 09-02-2014, 10:29 AM
 
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The "something disruptive" may be high frame rate and high resolution 3D.
I am not sure. Improvements in PQ with glasses would be evolutionary, not revolutionary to me. By definition, disruptive tech would completely upend how things were done before. I see glasses-free 3D TV as being disruptive, holograms being disruptive, not sure about higher resolution and frame rate.
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post #8 of 17 Old 09-02-2014, 11:02 AM
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You won't see a jump in 3d till 2017. The standards for true 4K will be in place then. OLED 10+bit panels will be the normal. After going to BB and seeing the new LG OLED in person and the 79UH9000 I wanted, I will definitely hold out now for OLED 77" for the future. I love 3d. Can't stand ghosting even the smallest amount on LCD's. Specially coming from a ghost free 73" DLP.


The only movie to really amaze me today in 3d still, as much as you guys are tired of it, is Avatar. I have a vast if not every movie in 3d since Avatar and still it is the go to movie to show off 3d on my set. Now the reason I say 2017 is that is when Avatar 2 will release for home and you know Cameron is going to push 3d to its limits in depth and color, and what better to show off his newest baby, 4K 3D OLED! I was really hoping it would be possible by then for True 4K 3D. 3D is going to need another shot in the arm by a big production like Avatar 2 or a big hardware change to get True 4K 3d or 3D will stay stagnant.

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post #9 of 17 Old 09-02-2014, 01:56 PM - Thread Starter
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You won't see a jump in 3d till 2017. The standards for true 4K will be in place then. OLED 10+bit panels will be the normal. After going to BB and seeing the new LG OLED in person and the 79UH9000 I wanted, I will definitely hold out now for OLED 77" for the future. I love 3d. Can't stand ghosting even the smallest amount on LCD's. Specially coming from a ghost free 73" DLP.


The only movie to really amaze me today in 3d still, as much as you guys are tired of it, is Avatar. I have a vast if not every movie in 3d since Avatar and still it is the go to movie to show off 3d on my set. Now the reason I say 2017 is that is when Avatar 2 will release for home and you know Cameron is going to push 3d to its limits in depth and color, and what better to show off his newest baby, 4K 3D OLED! I was really hoping it would be possible by then for True 4K 3D. 3D is going to need another shot in the arm by a big production like Avatar 2 or a big hardware change to get True 4K 3d or 3D will stay stagnant.
avatar is not that 3d. Some parts are good. But there are better films for 3d now. The hu9000 has no issues ghosting in 3d.
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post #10 of 17 Old 09-03-2014, 04:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Apostate View Post
I beg to differ. The best generally accepted reason for the lack of 3D success in home market has been the glasses. One still has to wear glasses for 4K 3D. The picture may be prettier but it's still the same song and dance.

Unless something disruptive comes along, i.e., glasses-free 3D TV, I predict the home 3D will be in the same funk that it's in now.
+1 3D will continue to be a failure so long as glasses are required.
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post #11 of 17 Old 09-04-2014, 01:02 AM
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Lightbulb 4k 3d tv

It's really amazing how popular 3D movies are at the local theaters , They have the cheapest glasses possible.... while looking at Soft resolution images on oversize screens & darker than normal projection. Not to mention putting up with annoying cell phones , Baby's crying & people talking through the whole movie.

It's only a matter of time when people start to see their favorite 3D movies on these newer 65" & 85" 4K TV's with Brighter & Clearer than ever images..... plus adjustable 3D images that can pop out as little or as much as you want. You also can sit as close or as far as you want so the 3D is perfect every time. Even the glasses get better every year , some are so light I forget they are even on.

2015 is supposed to have the most 3D movies to date and with Avatar 2 also coming, the demand will be higher than ever for 3D TV's..... with and without glasses.
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post #12 of 17 Old 09-04-2014, 06:10 AM - Thread Starter
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The forums have members who are happy with just upscaled 3d on a 4k set. Myself included it's amazing.

But soon we will have blurays in 4k that are 3d. It's going to be a sight.
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post #13 of 17 Old 09-04-2014, 10:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Mrorange303 View Post
I sometimes fund when watching 3d in a theater to picture sometimes can look 2d.

Sure the biggest moments of the film are great looking but the rest can fall flat.

On a 4k set the 3d is almost forced upon you. What i mean by that is the picture will never look 2d.
I hear this a lot. Gotta say I'm sorry for you people who can only appreciate certain extreme 3D.


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A movie with good 3D does not necessarily equal a good 3D movie!

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post #14 of 17 Old 09-04-2014, 11:02 AM
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As far as i know, there are 4K glasses-free 3D displays in the market now, i hope 4K active 3D TV will come soon, i like 3D effect, but really dislike wearing 3D glasses, it makes me uncomfortable and eyeache.
Unfortunately, the current technologies employed in glasses-free 3D displays have not reached a point where the image quality and the overall 3D experience exceeds what we currently get from passive and active 3D-with-glasses technologies. Once they do, and if low prices and standardization of technologies can be achieved, 3D might become "the new normal". But even then, broadcasters and content providers would have to be fully on board...without content, even a half-inch thick, 84" holographic 3D TV is just another large, empty frame on a wall. Personally, I love 3D (especially when it's an action film and there's all kinds of in-your-face effects), but I hate the discomfort from wearing the glasses. So I'll be among the first in line when truly realistic 3D without glasses becomes mainstream.
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post #15 of 17 Old 09-04-2014, 01:29 PM - Thread Starter
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I hear this a lot. Gotta say I'm sorry for you people who can only appreciate certain extreme 3D.
You feel sorry for people with different taste than yours? Sounds boring.
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post #16 of 17 Old 09-04-2014, 02:54 PM
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I don't mind the glasses one bit, plus I think it makes it more of a ritual which is kind of fun in it's own right. I can't wait for the Guardians of the Galaxy 3D blueray. Looking forward to the next 3D playable version of Call of Duty as well. I just got my first 3D TV a few days ago, I don't suppose you all could recommend a couple of movies that you think best show off this feature? Thanks
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post #17 of 17 Old 09-04-2014, 06:13 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by marszilla View Post
I don't mind the glasses one bit, plus I think it makes it more of a ritual which is kind of fun in it's own right. I can't wait for the Guardians of the Galaxy 3D blueray. Looking forward to the next 3D playable version of Call of Duty as well. I just got my first 3D TV a few days ago, I don't suppose you all could recommend a couple of movies that you think best show off this feature? Thanks
Guardians of the Galaxy will Rock. Pacific Rim. Captain America winter soldier, thor 2, amazing spiderman 2, avengers, 47 ronin, despicable me 2, tangled and Coraline. all good.

I only buy 3d/2d now. After 4k tvs thats all i want to watch.
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