4K Projectors with 3D - Page 2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #31 of 110 Old 04-08-2017, 02:40 PM
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Originally Posted by rural scribe View Post
I found this today:
"EPSON PRO CINEMA 6040UB LCD 4K (PIXEL-SHIFT) PROJECTOR REVIEW"

I don't know how this compares to the 5040, but the 3D part of the review sounds good:

http://hometheaterhifi.com/reviews/v...jector-review/
Other than an extra replacement bulb and an included ceiling mount, the 6040 and 5040 are the same projector. The 6040 is aimed at the dealer installer market. They have had consistently great reviews.
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post #32 of 110 Old 04-09-2017, 08:47 AM - Thread Starter
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That was the review that sold me on getting the 5040UB. I agree with most of the review, but sharpness and 3D are very subjective, and coming from an inexpensive DLP to this, just isn't the big leap I thought it would/should be for the price. More tweaking, more tweaking, more tweaking.... I will say, when in 4K mode, the infamous LCD screen door issue disappears, and for previous LCD projector owners, that alone is probably worth it as you can sit closer to the screen without seeing that irritation. However, in 3D mode, the pixel e-shift does not engage, but the shifting 3D image does away with the screen door and the frame interpolation helps remove judder that the DLP has a lot of, so I'm liking it more now.
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post #33 of 110 Old 06-03-2017, 05:31 AM - Thread Starter
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I returned the 5040UB, I talked about above. It just had way too much crosstalk in 3D. Some movies were ok, others so bad they were unwatchable. So I a bought an OptomaH29DARBEE instead. I have been watching the release of Optoma's new 4K projectors, and now there are 3, however, none of the 3 have 3D . That said the UHD60 is already on preorder for $1,999, and they are releasing a cheap version with slightly less lumens, which will probably have a street price of $1,599. So the idea of having a 4K and a 1080p 3D projector is now probably the only option available, but affordable. There is talk that the new DLP 4Ks do not have good contrast per the test models seen so far, but perhaps Optoma has improved that. Most of the 4Ks are coming out later this month.

Optoma UHD550X - $1999 (white) (street price will be less)
Certified true 4K UHD by CTA (exceeds 8 million active pixels, double the pixel amount of Epson/JVC eShift)
Input resolution 3840x2160
Native resolution 2716x1528
Composite resolution 5432x3056
2800 lumens (lamp)
500000:1 dynamic contrast
RGBCYW color wheel for high brightness
No 3D
BT2020 tone-mapped down to rec709 colorspace
HDR10


Optoma UHD60 - $2499 (white) (street price at BHphoto is $1999)
Certified true 4K UHD by CTA (exceeds 8 million active pixels, double the pixel amount of Epson/JVC eShift)
Input resolution 3840x2160
Native resolution 2716x1528
Composite resolution 5432x3056
3000 lumens (lamp)
1000000:1 dynamic contrast
RGBCYW color wheel for high brightness
No 3D
BT2020 tone-mapped down to rec709 colorspace
HDR10


Optoma UHD65 - $3299 (black) (street price will be less)
Certified true 4K UHD by CTA (exceeds 8 million active pixels, double the pixel amount of Epson/JVC eShift)
Input resolution 3840x2160
Native resolution 2716x1528
Composite resolution 5432x3056
2200 lumens (lamp)
1200000:1 dynamic contrast
RGBRGB color wheel for reduced RBE
No 3D
BT2020 tone-mapped down to rec709 colorspace
HDR10
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post #34 of 110 Old 06-03-2017, 10:24 AM
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I find crosstalk the worst problem for 3D as that basically ruins the 3D, you may as well watch in 2D. I know my Benq 1070 is cheap but it's virtually crosstalk free and it plays 1080p 3D natively which is all I can really hope for. I like my 4K LG, the colors are really fantastic and it's nice to see 4K3D content from my cameras but just no way to do that on a projector right now.

I'm not worried about 3D with a 4K projector, in fact I'm pretty sure by the time I upgrade it will only be 2D. The problem I have, besides cost is that I'm using an audio transparent screen because the screen is wall to wall and I have to have all speakers behind the screen. I inquired if the screen would work for 4K and they said it would not. The holes are very small, they can't be detected at 10 feet but I guess that's how small the pixels are so that would effect resolution. Right now the audio transparent screens for 4K are just way too expensive as are the projectors. I have no idea when I'll upgrade to a 4K projector but when I do I'll just move the 1080p PJ over and have both mounted side by side. You could also stack them, really depends on your setup and where the cooling fans/vents are located. You wouldn't want to block them. My ceiling is very low so I'd have to place side by side.

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post #35 of 110 Old 06-03-2017, 10:41 AM
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Bob, you're our resident Optoma guy. Do you have any opinion on the Optoma ZH400UST? It claims to be 4000 lumens and laser driven. It's not 4K but is 1080 with full 3D capabilities for about $2900. My Epson 5020 is still working fine, but I would almost prefer to buy another 3D 1080 projector than a 4K 2D one.
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post #36 of 110 Old 06-03-2017, 03:26 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Barry C View Post
Bob, you're our resident Optoma guy. Do you have any opinion on the Optoma ZH400UST?.
Funny you should bring that up. I thought of that, then decided that, 1: I didn't need the lumens, and 2: I could get a 4k and a good 1080p 3D projector for the same price. Although, it says 100,000:1 contrast. I've read that it's really 10,000:1, whereas other lamp projector DLPs are usually around 5000:1 true contrast. The one issue is the ultra-short throw. That puts the projector very close to the screen. That would mean that light scatter would be huge on a big screen and the viewing angle very wide. Might be good for a living room or conference room, but not so good for a dedicated cave as it would tend to light up the whole room with de-contrasting light--my opinion.

As with any of these newer projectors, I would only get one if you could return it in 30 days. Otherwise, you might be stuck with a hot mess . I decided to get a good DLP for a reasonable price and then wait for a cheap 4K for "normal" 2D viewing. The user experience with phosphor-based lasers is not long enough to really know what will happen to the projector 5 years from now--and really, the technology will be so different then that it will be "why did I do that." That said, I would really like to see how that works .
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post #37 of 110 Old 06-03-2017, 03:50 PM
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Originally Posted by 3DBob View Post
Funny you should bring that up. I thought of that, then decided that, 1: I didn't need the lumens, and 2: I could get a 4k and a good 1080p 3D projector for the same price. Although, it says 100,000:1 contrast. I've read that it's really 10,000:1, whereas other lamp projector DLPs are usually around 5000:1 true contrast. The one issue is the ultra-short throw. That puts the projector very close to the screen. That would mean that light scatter would be huge on a big screen and the viewing angle very wide. Might be good for a living room or conference room, but not so good for a dedicated cave as it would tend to light up the whole room with de-contrasting light--my opinion.

As with any of these newer projectors, I would only get one if you could return it in 30 days. Otherwise, you might be stuck with a hot mess . I decided to get a good DLP for a reasonable price and then wait for a cheap 4K for "normal" 2D viewing. The user experience with phosphor-based lasers is not long enough to really know what will happen to the projector 5 years from now--and really, the technology will be so different then that it will be "why did I do that." That said, I would really like to see how that works .
That short throw had me scratching my head too. The specs for this thing mention a screen range much smaller then ours. There are no reviews on it that I can find either. Also, they don't even list home theater as one of its uses. Way too vague.

My main concern and reason for possibly buying an extra 3D capable projector is if the projector manufactures are all going to drop the 3D option like they did with flat screen displays. If not, then it's not really a pressing issue.

I had high hopes for that Epson 5040 but in light of the crosstalk experience that you and others have had, it's now off the table for me.
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post #38 of 110 Old 06-04-2017, 08:40 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Barry C View Post
That short throw had me scratching my head too. The specs for this thing mention a screen range much smaller then ours. There are no reviews on it that I can find either. Also, they don't even list home theater as one of its uses. Way too vague.

My main concern and reason for possibly buying an extra 3D capable projector is if the projector manufactures are all going to drop the 3D option like they did with flat screen displays. If not, then it's not really a pressing issue.

I had high hopes for that Epson 5040 but in light of the crosstalk experience that you and others have had, it's now off the table for me.
Yeah, I'd wait for some reviews. That said, there are still lots of 3D projectors out there, and the inventory has to be huge still, so I think that even if they stop making them, they will still be available for several years after. That said, I'm beginning to think (after my 5040UB experience with crosstalk), that the DLP e-shift to double the mirror chip for 4K has something to do with why 3D is not being implemented. My bet is the contrast and crosstalk can't be controlled for 3D. They would have to turn the e-shift off and the half-resolution chip would have to take the processing load. It's probably just too complex to use part of the technology vs. all of it.
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post #39 of 110 Old 06-04-2017, 09:02 AM
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Originally Posted by 3DBob View Post
Yeah, I'd wait for some reviews. That said, there are still lots of 3D projectors out there, and the inventory has to be huge still, so I think that even if they stop making them, they will still be available for several years after. That said, I'm beginning to think (after my 5040UB experience with crosstalk), that the DLP e-shift to double the mirror chip for 4K has something to do with why 3D is not being implemented. My bet is the contrast and crosstalk can't be controlled for 3D. They would have to turn the e-shift off and the half-resolution chip would have to take the processing load. It's probably just too complex to use part of the technology vs. all of it.
After writing my last post yesterday, I read the forum thread from last spring about the 5040 issue. Just recently, a few of the posters on that thread said that Epson has replaced their projectors and the crosstalk is gone. So, this is indeed good news for the 5040.
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post #40 of 110 Old 06-04-2017, 12:25 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Barry C View Post
After writing my last post yesterday, I read the forum thread from last spring about the 5040 issue. Just recently, a few of the posters on that thread said that Epson has replaced their projectors and the crosstalk is gone. So, this is indeed good news for the 5040.
That would be good news indeed. The other issue I had with the 5040UB 3D was that it was a little dark for my taste as well--borderline lumens. I think in the long run, the 4K Optoma UHD550x for about $1,599, plus a good DLP 3D projector with at least 3,000 lumens is the best bet for me and more cost effective than the 5040UB. Also, the 5040UB is a big beast. That was my other concern that it would like look like a large white beer cooler strapped to the ceiling . But, had the 3D been as good as my DLP was, I would have probably kept it.
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post #41 of 110 Old 06-20-2017, 05:09 AM
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While technically not a faux or 4K DLP projector, I just stumbled across a rather enthusiastic review by renowned French projector specialist "kraine" regarding the Optoma HD 91+ he tested in December 2016, gave it a "Gold Award" and the only complaint he had was that he had reviewed and tested the HD 91+ (new LED Emitters in contrast to the previous generation - HD 90 / 91) too late.


As a matter of fact I was so taken by this review - you can find it here in French and English translation - OPTOMA HD91+ 1080P LED DLP projector - add to this he announced he'll be getting an HD 90+ (short throw version) for himself (!), that I'm seriously considering evaluating an HD 90+ for myself and test it with 3D program content (the short throw lens appears to promise brighter 3D images...).


So while almost everyone has been looking forward UHD projectors, I guess I'm still looking for a close-to-perfect FullHD DLP projector for my Blu-ray and 3D collection with better contrast / black levels and lens performance exceeding that of my Optoma HD 83(00) and perhaps I found it with the HD 90+.


And perhaps I can even get a nice price...

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post #42 of 110 Old 06-20-2017, 05:50 AM
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While technically not a faux or 4K DLP projector, I just stumbled across a rather enthusiastic review by renowned French projector specialist "kraine" regarding the Optoma HD 91+ he tested in December 2016, gave it a "Gold Award" and the only complaint he had was that he had reviewed and tested the HD 91+ (new LED Emitters in contrast to the previous generation - HD 90 / 91) too late.


As a matter of fact I was so taken by this review - you can find it here in French and English translation - OPTOMA HD91+ 1080P LED DLP projector - add to this he announced he'll be getting an HD 90+ (short throw version) for himself (!), that I'm seriously considering evaluating an HD 90+ for myself and test it with 3D program content (the short throw lens appears to promise brighter 3D images...).


So while almost everyone has been looking forward UHD projectors, I guess I'm still looking for a close-to-perfect FullHD DLP projector for my Blu-ray and 3D collection with better contrast / black levels and lens performance exceeding that of my Optoma HD 83(00) and perhaps I found it with the HD 90+.


And perhaps I can even get a nice price...

Let us know how bad it is when you get it. 1000:1 native and some of the dimmest 3D you will see + a poor DI implementation.

The Sharp 30K 3D DLP is better in every possible way vs. the Optoma LED projectors. Don't sell that HD83 just yet.


The unfortunate news is how Optoma and Vivitek thought it was OK to release a UHD DLP without 3D support.
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post #43 of 110 Old 06-20-2017, 05:40 PM - Thread Starter
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Well, here's a thought. Though you can't enjoy 4K 3D on any of the projectors, you CAN enjoy 4K anaglyph. So, if you have two cameras capable of 4K and sync them for 3D and then do Anaglyph (and you can certainly do this with stills), you will see 4K 3D in all it's glory. Sure the colors will be off, but the definition should be incredible. Same for stills. Again, just a thought. I've also read, that if you do blue/yellow anaglyph, the colors appear close to normal--just the blue does make the image dark, though.

Don, can you check this out on your Sony 4K projector? What made me think of this was I was just messing with anaglyph stills on my LG 60" and had a brain fart...
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post #44 of 110 Old 06-20-2017, 07:59 PM
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Yeah that would work, but then again you can do that on any 4K screen. Anaglyph just isn't the same though. I used it for awhile for editing before I got my LG but I prefer the second screen. Given the choice of 4K but anaglyph or full color HD, I would choose full color HD.
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post #45 of 110 Old 07-05-2017, 08:31 AM
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Well, here's a thought. Though you can't enjoy 4K 3D on any of the projectors, you CAN enjoy 4K anaglyph. So, if you have two cameras capable of 4K and sync them for 3D and then do Anaglyph (and you can certainly do this with stills), you will see 4K 3D in all it's glory. Sure the colors will be off, but the definition should be incredible. Same for stills. Again, just a thought. I've also read, that if you do blue/yellow anaglyph, the colors appear close to normal--just the blue does make the image dark, though.

Don, can you check this out on your Sony 4K projector? What made me think of this was I was just messing with anaglyph stills on my LG 60" and had a brain fart...
I've been very busy these past few days getting ready for my trip cross country. (Florida to Alaska) but just saw your post.

I don't understand why you all just don't get a really good projector that does what you want. I have never seen any cross talk on my 665ES. I now have 4600 hrs on the original lamp and it still has the same light output as when it was only 100 hours old. A used 6655ES is still selling for about $8000 on ebay buy it now or amazon stores. I got mine new with an auction and paid even less but those deals are rare.

The best way to achieve 4K 3D frame packed is to create 3D normally as 1080p and upscale in the projector to 4K using Sony's Reality Creation conversion. The detail is interpolated and the pixel size is the same as 4K UHD.

Sure you can do anaglyph too but I'm not sure there is any software that will output anaglyph in 4K. I looked at it some time ago and didn't see any way to render it or pair it to begin with. But frankly, I didn't waste too much time on it because proper color is still important to me. Anaglyph is OK for a quick check, but I'm not going to watch it for entertainment. I'd rather just watch 2D 4K. I haven't tried even looking for it in adobe Premiere Pro but they make use of anaglyph for preview on a regular monitor. I've only used it for 4K 3D 360VR rendering and that is output to T/B. Since this is 360° VR it has no standards restrictions on 3D. Right now 3D 4K is only possible in VR and rendered to equirectangular format. But this format so far is not available on my projector by any apps. I now have a PC in the home theater but have yet to see if that will do VR. I know it won't do 4K 3D T/B because the projector will not allow access to T/B if the video is in 4K. 3D 360 4K is only displayable now by VR goggles on YT and Facebook, but facebook is limited to 720p which is really bad in 360. At least YT does 4K and now 8K is being tested.

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post #46 of 110 Old 07-05-2017, 11:18 AM
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4K projectors are still really pricey especially when 4K flat panels start out now at 300.00. For 3D it's even worse since they aren't making them any more with 4K. HD upscaled to 4K doesn't equal 4K, I wouldn't waste my time with it or at least pay extra for that option right now. Same with 2D projectors that aren't true 4K, but upscale to 4K resolution. It's fake 4K, not true resolution from the data that's there. The only real solution if you don't want to pay $4K plus is to add a second 1080p 3D PJ. Since movies aren't 4K3D it really makes no difference. From Blu ray 3D movies I don't see much difference on my 4K LG when it's upscaled to 4K besides the color and brightness improvement with a flat panel which are obvious.

You can easily output anaglyph 4K in VP, but I really don't see the point if the color is not true. One thing I noticed rather quick with anaglyph is that colors close to the glasses will cancel out and you can't see certain objects. Red roses will become invisible, etc. I mainly just used it for editing for awhile before I got a second 3D screen because it can show the convergence in 3D vs. trying to guess in 2D which doesn't work to well, so it's better than nothing I guess.

I had a few movies in anaglyph too like Journey to the Center of the Earth and Final Destination 4 or 5, I played a few minutes of them but turned it off, just didn't look very good to me so I replaced them with the Blu ray 3D versions, much better. I'm not a big fan of anaglyph, it works if you don't have a true 3D screen but with major limitations.

Aside from a few early 4K VR goggles, the only way I know of to get 4K 3D on a display is with a passive 4K screen and render to t/b but technically it's half-height 4K from a single 3840x2160 frame, still looks very 4K though. VR goggles might be the only future of 4K 3D for awhile. Need TV manufacturers to realize 3D isn't going away that there are still directors releasing movies in 3D and there is still a viable consumer market for it.

Wake up LG and bring back 3D!

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post #47 of 110 Old 07-06-2017, 02:21 AM
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For 3D it's even worse since they aren't making them any more with 4K.

That's not correct:


https://www.sony.com/electronics/projector/vpl-vw365es


http://procision.jvc.com/product.jsp...Id=140&page=11


You probably had DLP projectors in mind, in that case it's correct that the recent 4K models don't support 3D (supposedly that would require an extra video processor, but perhaps one of the 4K DLP manufacturers comes to realize that there is demand for one that still supports 3D)

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post #48 of 110 Old 07-06-2017, 07:19 AM
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Yes and as I have said many times, it isn't that 3D TV with 2D 4K is not made anymore, it's only that main stores in the US do not carry them but you can still buy them.

3D TV's, flat panel LED, OLED, flat, curved, 55", 65", 84" and 2x2 wall systems are available through foreign sources. I bought a 27" LED 3D TV here and it is an English version but the Remote control is in Korean. Prices in USD are not unusually high either. And many have free shipping to the US with Alibaba. For strictly English models from Samsung and LG, go to Amazon UK. Many models available.

While 3D hasn't continued to grow here in the US, likely due to the trouble the retail business has been in, it doesn't mean that manufacturers have stopped making them as 3D is still very popular world wide especially in Asia and Europe. A better quest would be- try to find any TV made in the US. Now that is the challenge. The retail industry has conspired in the US to kill 3D because the sales management didn't know how to educate the public to it's benefit. In fact places like Best Buy and Circuit City (now out of business) were actually talking the public out of 3D when it was all the rage a few years ago. Think what would have happened back when color first came out if the sames people tried to prevent sales and tell the people they were better off with black and white.

tom- when you expand the pixel count to 4K panels and upconvert a 1080p using the latest technology such as Sony's reality creation tool, it is not just multiplying each pixel with 3 more duplicates. It actually does an interpolation of the 1080p pixel with those around it and creates tweens, not just duplicates, so the image takes on a real 4K detail. Is it the same as a true 4K production from camera all the way through to your screen? No but I would challenge anyone to consistently know the difference between a 2D 4K production and one that is upscaled with the Sony Reality Creation technology. Maybe with a commercial theatrical screen size but not with your typical home theater screen size. Besides, with 3D that is only produced in 1080px1920, you don't have anything to compare in 4K 3D anyway. It doesn't exist! Now how about 2D 4K? Lots of movies are rendered at 2K intermediates anyway so those productions aren't even 4K and all you are seeing is an upscaled to UHD anyway.

It's time to start trusting your eyes and not propaganda and bloggers who write about stuff they have never seen.
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post #49 of 110 Old 07-06-2017, 07:32 AM
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I've played a UHD and the Blu-ray version upscaled next to it. I couldn't see the difference. I've been ridiculed and told to get my eyes checked. I've also ripped to 2160p from the 1080p and couldn't tell the difference except the interpolation added file size. I've done this with 2D and 3D. 3D 1080p on my 1080p display looks primitive compared to the same title upscaled to 1080p (each eye) on my 2160p display. There is a definite quality gain and the post processing the display does is very, very, good.
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post #50 of 110 Old 07-06-2017, 07:45 AM
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You can easily output anaglyph 4K in VP
Tom I would like you to show me how you did that. Not only is it not supported in VP (v13) but I just tried it and a 4K native video clip pair will go dark and "media offline" if you try to pair the left and right 4K camera clips. Take the same clips and downres them to 2K and then pair them and the 3D renders to any 3D format you wish. Vegas Pro does not support any 3D in 4K rendering, not even anaglyph.

So to give your claim a fair test, I decided to use a 4K clip from the only 3D 4K camera I have which is the Vuze 360 VR camera and test the T/B 3D file that was stitched with the HumanEyes software. This did display in 3D 4K but the file was in equirectangular T/B configuration. But I was able to display it in anaglyph in the down res'd preview monitor, however to render that file to convert from the VR standard which is T/B to anaglyph, it went totally FUBAR. The anaglyph was really messed up with all the colors of the rainbow and completely uncoordinated with the basic image in the shot.

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Don, you got me curious. I recall having no trouble rendering 3D at any resolution with Edius, so I just tried an experiment. I paired a couple of 2.7K GP clips in a project with the settings set a 3840/2160. I rendered them at that 4K res as h.264 .mp4 using the Edius 3D anaglyph output option. Using Power DVD 15, the clip played back perfectly on my Asus 1440 2D monitor. However, a couple of other player programs, including Windows Media Player played back only black with the audio.
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Barry- I was addressing Tom's claim that he did it in Vegas Pro so that is what I tested. Couldn't do it so that is why I asked him to explain how.

In your test did you start with 4K video or 2K video to pair. I didn't know you had a setup to create a stereo 4K pair. GoPro 3 at 4K 15fps?

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Originally Posted by Don Landis View Post
Barry- I was addressing Tom's claim that he did it in Vegas Pro so that is what I tested. Couldn't do it so that is why I asked him to explain how.

In your test did you start with 4K video or 2K video to pair. I didn't know you had a setup to create a stereo 4K pair. GoPro 3 at 4K 15fps?
I used 2.7K clips (2704/1536) and paired them in a project with 3840/2160 project settings and rendered at that setting.

PS:
My standard workflow these days is to shoot all GP content at 2.7K and work in a project set at that res and then downscale
to 1080 on final render.

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post #54 of 110 Old 07-06-2017, 11:25 AM
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Barry- I must be getting old. I forgot the test I did recently in April where I also paired 2 4K clips in Edius. I remember first trying it with Vegas Pro and it didn't work there. You may recall as I posted the results that was shot in 4K using my Mavic Pro drone video offset by 3 frames for the stereo.

So I opened that project and saw I found the GV HQX codec that worked to render 4K paired clips in any of the 3D formats including anaglyph T/B or SBS. The file is an *.avi file.

Edius works. But. playing that file in 4K on my projector does not work except in anaglyph. The projector just sees the red/cyan color as picture.

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Originally Posted by Frank714 View Post
That's not correct:


https://www.sony.com/electronics/projector/vpl-vw365es


http://procision.jvc.com/product.jsp...Id=140&page=11


You probably had DLP projectors in mind, in that case it's correct that the recent 4K models don't support 3D (supposedly that would require an extra video processor, but perhaps one of the 4K DLP manufacturers comes to realize that there is demand for one that still supports 3D)
Yes, I'm sure there's some current models but I would assume this will be the last year for them as 3D is slowly being removed from everything.

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post #56 of 110 Old 07-06-2017, 06:04 PM
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Besides, with 3D that is only produced in 1080px1920, you don't have anything to compare in 4K 3D anyway. It doesn't exist!

It's time to start trusting your eyes and not propaganda and bloggers who write about stuff they have never seen.
Actually, I can compare it to true 4K 3D with my AX1003D rig, (aside from limiting it to shooting scenes with non-fast movement so it's not in the same realm as the pro's do it but works good enough for me). I can see the difference on my 4K LG. It's actually very easy to see the difference. With HD it's like taking a 2 megapixel image and blowing that up to fill the screen vs. using a 8.3 mega image which is what 4K is, it's 24 or 30 8.3mp motion images, or faster if you camera does that. There is simply more data there to begin with, no amount of interpolation will create something that can compare what a 4K image will produce vs HD upscaled. Granted, I haven't seen the Sony do this in person, I'm sure it's better than any other projector, I guess it should for the price, but I can't imagine it would be that much better than what the flat panels are doing and I've seen those in the stores as well as on my own and honestly, flat panels will rock pretty much any projector in color and brightness which will only improve the image quality from there on.

I haven't played any UHD Blu ray content yet, I have a few IMAX titles that came with the 3D discs. And I know they use a 2K intermediate in some cases for studio movies. For movies and this is just my opinion but I think HD still looks very good on my projector and don't really want or need 4K yet for that at least for movies. But on my flat panel I can very well see the difference on my line of cameras going back to SD to HD and to UHD. There's a big difference. When I play content on projector, the differences are harder to see and I have to downscale to HD first because it's a 1080p projector but it's a cheap projector for one and it's just not going to compare have the same performance as a flat panel, but it's big and immersive so I like it for that reason.

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post #57 of 110 Old 07-06-2017, 06:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Don Landis View Post
Tom I would like you to show me how you did that. Not only is it not supported in VP (v13) but I just tried it and a 4K native video clip pair will go dark and "media offline" if you try to pair the left and right 4K camera clips. Take the same clips and downres them to 2K and then pair them and the 3D renders to any 3D format you wish. Vegas Pro does not support any 3D in 4K rendering, not even anaglyph.

So to give your claim a fair test, I decided to use a 4K clip from the only 3D 4K camera I have which is the Vuze 360 VR camera and test the T/B 3D file that was stitched with the HumanEyes software. This did display in 3D 4K but the file was in equirectangular T/B configuration. But I was able to display it in anaglyph in the down res'd preview monitor, however to render that file to convert from the VR standard which is T/B to anaglyph, it went totally FUBAR. The anaglyph was really messed up with all the colors of the rainbow and completely uncoordinated with the basic image in the shot.
That's odd then because I have the proof already on YT in a few uploads in 4K3D. I have some more I need to work on but still trying to get thru my garden video which is taking forever, that and I stop working on it for weeks at a time, oh well.

How else could you explain that this file exists if I didn't do it in VP?

So I have this one and there are a few more I have up, I won't post all of them. I haven't uploaded anything in awhile Botanical garden feature is taking up all the render space right now, need to get it done.

You would have to have a passive 4K flat panel to view it or possibly 4K VR goggles I guess it should work with those too. If you play in 2D you can see the frame is 3840x2160 top/bottom and on a passive that will be 3840x1080 per eye.

https://youtu.be/H0qoNvUjeFk

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post #58 of 110 Old 07-06-2017, 08:16 PM
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Tom I can see you created a 4K file but as I said before I can't play it. Nothing I have will play a T/B 4K video. But downrezed to 1080p and I can play it fine. I'm still curious how you got Vegas to pair the two 4K clips though. When I try it here Vegas Pro just shows the paired clip as "media offline" One day, maybe next year I will buy a 4K 3D OLED. My problem is I need to do some remodeling of my edit office to find wall space for a 55" which is all I see now from LG, Samsung or any other TV maker- This is one I have my eye on from LG and I can get it in the US, actually here in town are in stock. Walmart has it for under $2000 with 10 day free delivery.

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/lg-55-cl...?skuId=5010100

https://www.walmart.com/ip/LG-Electr...&wl13=&veh=sem

The rumors that you can't buy a 3D TV in 4K anymore is greatly exaggerated. The 65" version is $6000 and the 77" is $15000 open box sale ( $20,000 MSRP)

One thing these panel TV's aren't is cheap. Priced comparable with the Sony Projectors.


Anyway, I off for awhile so when we get back I will need to chat with you more on how you got the 4K 3D T/B to display.

As for those VR goggles, for that to work you would need to render the 4K 3D in equirectangular T/B format and inject the VR meta data so the goggles will display as a VR image. The meta data can be done to any video with post rendering software. You Tube has a link for that which is what I use when the editing platform fails to do it for me.

The only editing software that will do VR in 3D now is Adobe Premiere Pro. Yeah, I had to break down and rent their editor to be able to work with the Vuze camera. Power Director does VR but only in 2D for now.

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post #59 of 110 Old 07-06-2017, 09:46 PM
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For Vuze VP 13 might work but might have to upgrade to 14, not sure, I haven't worked with the VR stuff. I think you're limited to 3840x1920 render max, the source file is 3840x3840 square AR? Yes, I recall when I used my VR goggles the images were square, I didn't really care for it at the time and haven't used them since. The screen door effect was really awful and the square image. I might check out the 4K goggles here at some point, reviews suggest they do pretty good to remove screen door effect that lower resolution goggles produce. Really, 13 should be able to at least edit the files, since it can handle up to 4096x4096 but render output you can't go that tall.

For 3D (not VR 3D), pairing in 4K is really the same as before. I set project properties to 3840x2160 and use t/b. I pair files on the timeline after they've been aligned for two camera rig.

Media offline, I recall you had that problem, I think it has to be either VP doesn't like the files or you have low system resources.

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post #60 of 110 Old 07-06-2017, 10:03 PM
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4K with 3D displays, whatever is in stores right now will be it. Once they're gone, you'll only find them used or closeouts next year. The smallest LG is 55" which use to be around $1200 then the 65" which was $1800, the OLED's ran about $3500-$6K a few models were more if you needed those couple extra inches. They used to have a 49" which I have, I really didn't want to go any bigger because of where it is and what it's for.

4K goggles would be the cheapest way to view but I don't know how it will display on those since it isn't in VR 3D format. Not sure how the goggles display per eye if it's 3840x1920 then the image will be squashed (if viewing a regular 4K 3D image not VR 3D).

Actually, there's the glasses-free flat panels which run about $6K and they render 3D up to 2160p or so they say but for the most part by this time next year all the major manufacturers will not have any 3D models. Projectors, I know Benq just released some new 1080p models with 3D so they're not done yet, but no 4K DLP so I'll likely stick with what I have.

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Last edited by tomtastic; 07-06-2017 at 10:07 PM.
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