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post #1 of 110 Old 02-21-2017, 10:22 AM - Thread Starter
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4K Projectors with 3D

I thought I would start this thread since lots of us 3D nuts are looking forward to a "cheap" 4K projector with 3D--i.e. less than $3,000.

As we know so far, the inexpensive 4K projectors will be using the TI 4K chip: http://www.ti.com/lsds/ti/dlp-techno...-ultra-hd.page. It uses 4K mirrors with shifting to create 8k pixels, which is necessary for true UHD 4K. Epson currently uses a 1080p (2k) lcd and shifts it to 4K for pseudo 4K for their current projectors. This is not the same as what TI does. See the write up in the Benq link below.

Caveats: There is no 4K bluray spec, so no projector can implement 4K 3D. 3D will probably always be 2K (1080p) 3D. However as shown on 4K TVs, 2K 3D looks much better and sharper because of some upscaling and smaller pixels. Also, 3D is dying, so manufacturers are not including it. You could also keep your 1080p 3D projector and mount a non-4K projector next to it for best of both worlds, but not the illusion of 4K 3D that a 4K with 2K 3D could give you.

So far, there are 4 projectors announced using the TI 4K chip:
Optoma UHD60 (originally stated at CES with 3D, now disputed) due 2nd quarter 2017 http://www.projectorcentral.com/optoma-uhd60.htm
Optoma UHD65 (upgraded 4K to include HDR, better color, 10 bit, bells and whistles plus 3D--Rumor only) due late 2017.
Vivitek HK 2288 (no 3D confirmed at CES) due 2nd quarter 2017
ACER V9800 (no 3D confirmed at CES)due 2nd quarter 2017
BenqW11000 (no 3D listed on site features) due 2nd quarter 2017 http://www.benq.com/product/projector/w11000/features/ Includes an excellent write-up on how the 4K mirror will create 8K pixels. While this has been discussed on other threads in the projector forums, it is not consider faux K, but true UHD 4k

Pricing appears to be $2,799 to $7,000 from what I've read. The Optoma UHD60 is supposed to street price at $2,799, and the Optoma UHD65 $3,000 (but my guess $3,999 based on features). The others more expensive.
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post #2 of 110 Old 02-23-2017, 12:44 AM
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I'm not sure if it is the developers releasing things slowly or if it is I who has come up to cutting edge the last couple of years...

So 3D is dying? To bad; not that I am a champion of it or think it makes or breakes a movie but I like to watch a movie in 3D the first time I see it and then 2D mostly. Then again there might be a constriction of some 2D photography techniques and as there might be other with 3D.

Anywho; I am looking at Optoma UHD65 instead of UHD60 becuase of 2 things, 1. wider coulor gamut?, 2. 3D is nice to have.

When we se a review of the UHD60 we will see if this new DLP chip has got the chops. I'm hoping for less rainbow effect and really good contrast/greyscale. 4k is not the most exciting part of the new UHD but the HDR and wider coulor gamut, this will make me rebuy a couple of my most excelent Blu-ray movies if they are released in a good enough quality for the new format.

Looks like there is still quite some time to save up some money before one can buy anything worthwhile in the new UHD projector range (for less than 6000 that is)...
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post #3 of 110 Old 02-23-2017, 06:17 AM - Thread Starter
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If you want a comparison of the TI chip to the Epson LCD shift and Sony 4K. Here you go. This is a review of the ACER V9800 in german. This link should translate. http://www.microsofttranslator.com/B...ack-von-dlp%2F

While the ACER does not support 3D, this should give you a good view into what the TI chip can do on the Optoma UHD65.
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post #4 of 110 Old 02-23-2017, 06:34 AM
 
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These TI chips are quite good / powerful.

It's confirmed they can do 10-bit at 4K60, not just 4K24 / 4K30. Why does this matter? Because due to the way the wobulation works by showing two subframes in 1/60th of a second, that means they are effectively delivering 2.7K x 120hz x 10-bit. 10-bit at 120hz is super good, and a feature normally for 3-chip DLP only territory. (i.e. very expensive). On DLPs the higher the framerate the lower the effective bit depth, since digital projection is binary and using time-slicing / duty-cycling to achieve their bit depth, so the effective bit depth on a DLP is mostly dependent on the mirror speed vs the framerate. And older single-chip DLPs can't do 10-bit at 120hz or in 3D. But these new chips can...because wobulation at 60hz = equivalent to no wobulation at 120hz.

The UHD65 seems like it may be the winner for 3D enthusiasts, if it can actually scale up 1080p then just jack in to the wobulation tech to render 120hz 3D at 4K (upscaled). And if that doesn't work, the fact that these run at 120hz internally, and deliver 1:1 pixel mapping (overlapped) means it might even be able to accept 120hz in 2D OR 3D (with a video processor for LCD glasses sync up) through my pixel packing shader.

This will require a bit of work on my end to write a virtual display driver which windows would see as a 2.7K 120hz native screen, (or dual 2.7K 60hz screens for 3D, or over-under or side-by-side for example, for games / media players which support those modes). Then you can do PC-based FI for 1080p 3D sources at 60hz per eye in SBS without losing resolution.

I'm super excited about these TI chips, for hackability.

Although for superior 3D one might consider the new 1080p Dell 7760 laser DLP projector with 3D AND 5400 lumens. It's under 3K. No built-in FI though probably but that's OK for 1080p sources since one can always rip 2D / 3D Blurays to disc then do FI on your PC instead. It's a hassle, but...5400 lumens for 3D is killer. Plus laser too.

If my w1070 contrast mod works I might even consider buying the dell instead and do the same procedure to get awesome HDR (these DLPs all accept 10-bit native SDR signals, but it's possible to do tone mapping and temporal dithering to do HDR).

HDR is just a display curve, yo. The important thing is native contrast and peak lumens. And even crappy on/off DLPs can apparently deliver stunning HDR10 due to high ANSI contrast. But imagine 5400 lumens of laser powa...awesome.
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post #5 of 110 Old 03-04-2017, 01:47 PM - Thread Starter
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This was posted in another forum. Doesn't look good for 3D (see bold underlined text), but we won't really know until later this summer apparently.

Originally Posted by AndreNewman
"Ok here are my notes from ISE yesterday on the Optoma UHD60&65, 3G & wifi were unusable at the airport yesterday...

The demo area was bright and a small screen <90" as seems usual for Optoma so I have no idea about black level and lens clarity. It was however much better than the Viewsonic demo which had another projector shining across the screen raising black level!

So most importantly for me I didn't see any unpleasant motion artefacts on any of the many 4k DLPs I saw, there is some indistinct movement when you are inches away but it's no more unpleasant than the DLP dithering, it's not possible to see individual pixels even close up but don't forget the Optoma screen was maybe 80". With Optoma the whole stand was shaking as people walk around so it was difficult to see focus well. The demo material was the usual BBC Planet Earth II frog & snake video, at least it was moving, Casio only had a still slideshow.

I have worked in sport TV engineering for 29 years so I am very sensitive to motion issues in TV signals and display technology, consequently I'm unable to watch LCD TVs without feeling ill, this is why I take a special interest in DLP.

I was told by Optoma that it's not possible to switch off the wobulation on the UHD60,&65, Acer & BenQ showed me the pictures in silent mode (wobulation off, maybe some different firmware choices) where you can see the individual pixels and yes they are square btw. I didn't see any change to motion rendering with wobulation on or off but all demo material was 24p so maybe it would be obvious at 50p or 60p, I think I would want the option to turn it off just in case. there was a mention (not from Optoma) that on larger screens the wobulation was easier to see.


All the vendors I spoke to told me the TI 4K DLP chipset does not support 3D or any 120Hz modes. The optical wobulator element works at 120Hz or 150Hz for 25 & 50fps, this info was a little different from each vendor so not really definitive yet. I was interested to know if that modulation was double frame rate or something much higher, perhaps this prevents 3D or 120Hz video but maybe they just didn't bother.

In all of the demos I looked for rainbows and it was very difficult or impossible to trigger this, I had varying explanations of colour wheel equivalent speed and none from Optoma but it sounded like this was a fixed thing in the initial DLP chipset so depending on explanation either 6x at 24p or 4x at 30p one even suggested 5x at 25p but I'm not sure that's possible or I misunderstood. Either way all of them seemed better than my last two DLPs, Optoma HD80 & HD30.

The UHD65 will be launched at the same June/July time as the UHD60 but the primary (only?) difference will be an RGBRGB colour wheel, the UHD60 has a RGBYCM higher brightness wheel. The 60 will be ~£2500 the 65 ~£3000. Both will be REC709 colour, when fed with 2020 colour space the projector will down convert to 709, HDR support will be on/off no more info and this was not demoed. I wasn't able to make any menu adjustments with Optoma, others were more accommodating.

In almost all cases I was very lucky to find a friendly chatty engineer who wanted to explain how this new technology works, so I think I learned a lot about the new DLP.

Everyone talked about another new 4k Ti DLP chip coming later this year this is a smaller, cheaper chip, everyone accepted that the contrast will be worse so I expect there will be a lot of cheap 4k DLPs in a few years time but with terrible home cinema performance, great for spreadsheets though.

2160p@50 &60hz will be max 10bit at 4:2:2, 4:4:4 is not going to be possible with this projector. One of the vendors said they have a 18Gb HDMI chip but the Ti chipset didn't permit 4:4:4 at 50 or 60Hz. From the vendors who understood the question, it doesn't seem it's going to be possible to drive the input at the native mirror resolution, shame that might a handy feature, maybe I planted the seed of an idea in some of the engineers minds. The BenQ guy at least wanted to stay in touch and discuss developments that might be relevant to sports TV.

I asked about CIH, Optoma said all their projectors support stretching for anamorphic lenses but didn't really understand about using zoom for CIH. Zoom ratio is 1.6 so it might be possible (need 1.5 min) but there is a minimum lens offset (can't go to zero) and not much vertical adjustment so it might depend on screen distance and offset.

There is also a ZH55 model being launched but I didn't see a demo, static model only and I didn't get told any details.

So this is what I discovered, there's more from the other vendors I saw, Casio, Viewsonic, Acer, BenQ, I wasn't able to compare with Epson, Sony or JVC as they didn't have any Home Cinema projectors on demo I did see the JVC Z1 demo.

Acer had a small living room style 4k projector on demo too, VHE7850 (I think, translation was difficult) which actually looked brighter and better contrast than the V9800 along side, who knows really it's a trade show demo in a bright room. Few details and no price yet, might be a low price alternative to watch for if the Optoma doesn't live up to expectations when it gets released and properly reviewed.

Andre"
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post #6 of 110 Old 03-05-2017, 10:22 PM
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Sounds like the writing is pretty much on the wall for 3D projectors as well as flat panel displays. So, although most of what I watch is in 2D, having 3D capability is still essential. Therefore, I suspect that I'll end up, before they're all discontinued and out of stock, buying a second 1080 3D projector- maybe the Epson 5040 which will simulate 4K and looks quite good from what I've read.- and just keep my current one as a spare. I highly doubt that 3D, once gone, will be back anytime soon so always good to have redundant systems. As for true 4K and HDR, I can live without it much more so than I could live without 3D capability. And yes, always possible to buy a 4K projector and mount it next to my current one, but then I wouldn't have a spare 3D projector. Even on my 133" screen, 1080 blurays look spectacular and I doubt that 4K would make a tremendous difference. As for HDR, it's something that will only be present in a fraction of any movie and only a fraction of movies in general will utilize it. And of that fraction, I'll probably only be interested in seeing a fraction of those. So, just not a very big deal.
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post #7 of 110 Old 03-06-2017, 06:51 AM - Thread Starter
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I'm thinking the same way. If Optoma doesn't activate 3D on their new projectors, then I'm going to get an Epson 5040 as well. Since Epson uses shifted 1080p LCDs, resolution is 4k, not 8k as in true 4K, but from what I've read that is still a big improvement. 4K shifting is off for 3D, but we already know there is not 4K 3D. It also has frame interpolation (soap opera effect), but that gets turned off in 4K mode. I do like the effect for home video since it does away with the jerky scanning motion and makes home videos look like butter--as I've found out on my 60"LG. For normal TV it's not important anyway. Well, there is still a chance that the Optoma UHD65 will have 3D, but now that no other manufacturer is implementing it, Optoma probably won't either since they still want to sell their other 1080p projectors too.
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post #8 of 110 Old 03-10-2017, 10:02 AM - Thread Starter
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Well its official, the Optoma UHD60 does not support 3D. This was posted on their UK facebook page in February.

There is no news about the UHD65, in fact Optoma will not respond that it even exists.

UHD60
4K UHD XPR technology – 8 million on screen pixels
Amazing colour technology – Rec.709
8W audio sound box
1.35 - 2.22:1 Throw ratio
1.6x zoom
15% Vertical lens shift
2x HDMI, VGA, SPDIF, USB Power, 12V Trigger, RJ45
HDMI 2.0, HDCP 2.2
HDR Support
Does not support 3D
Available June
Price: Approx. €2499 Inc. VAT
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post #9 of 110 Old 03-10-2017, 11:50 AM
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Well then, we'll just have to see what Epson comes out with later in the year to supercede the 5040. If they drop 3D too, then a 5040 will be in the cards for me.

Sounds like Don's going to be our go to guy for best true 4K 3D capable projector for quite some time.
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post #10 of 110 Old 03-11-2017, 07:25 AM - Thread Starter
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Epson had the 5040 on sale through today (3/11)--$500 off. That, to me, is always a signal that they are coming out with something new and improved, and dumping retail shelf inventory--but doing it in a way to not have people suspect it.

TI, apparently did say that their chip can support 3D if a manufacturer chooses to implement it, so our only hope Obi Wan is that the UHD65 will have it.
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post #11 of 110 Old 03-11-2017, 09:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3DBob View Post
Epson had the 5040 on sale through today (3/11)--$500 off. That, to me, is always a signal that they are coming out with something new and improved, and dumping retail shelf inventory--but doing it in a way to not have people suspect it.

TI, apparently did say that their chip can support 3D if a manufacturer chooses to implement it, so our only hope Obi Wan is that the UHD65 will have it.
Maybe not our only hope. I really don't know who makes the processors that Epson uses in their projectors. Assuming they'e not made by TI, I suppose there's a chance that whatever they come out with to supersede the 5040 will use a processor that is 4K and still has 3D. If so, sign me up!
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post #12 of 110 Old 03-11-2017, 10:55 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Barry C View Post
Maybe not our only hope. I really don't know who makes the processors that Epson uses in their projectors. Assuming they'e not made by TI, I suppose there's a chance that whatever they come out with to supersede the 5040 will use a processor that is 4K and still has 3D. If so, sign me up!
TI is DLP (mirror) based technology and Epson used 3-LCD technology, so I'm assuming it would be LCD or similar...just a matter of increasing the resolution in the LCDs I would think. Since TI uses one 4k pixels mirror and shifts it to get 8k pixels. I think a shifted 4K LCD would create 8K as well. The problem with 3 LCDs is they need to be kept in perfect alignment, whereas the one TI mirror chip is always in alignment. Epson's current technology shifts 2k pixels LCDs to get 4k pixels, but true 4K is 8K pixels. Thus a 4K TV represents the width of the image, not the true pixel size of the image--it's all very confusing.
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post #13 of 110 Old 03-11-2017, 02:42 PM
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Originally Posted by 3DBob View Post
TI is DLP (mirror) based technology and Epson used 3-LCD technology, so I'm assuming it would be LCD or similar...just a matter of increasing the resolution in the LCDs I would think. Since TI uses one 4k pixels mirror and shifts it to get 8k pixels. I think a shifted 4K LCD would create 8K as well. The problem with 3 LCDs is they need to be kept in perfect alignment, whereas the one TI mirror chip is always in alignment. Epson's current technology shifts 2k pixels LCDs to get 4k pixels, but true 4K is 8K pixels. Thus a 4K TV represents the width of the image, not the true pixel size of the image--it's all very confusing.
All very confusing indeed. Bottom line for me is if it looks good. Right now, well done 1080 looks good to me. If something noticeably improves on what I'm seeing now I might just get it. I really don't care much how they do it or if there's something else out there that might look 10% better and have "true 4K" but no 3D.
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post #14 of 110 Old 03-13-2017, 09:13 AM
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I just got an email from the Acer techie I chatted to at ISE.

He's saying they will have 3D on future 4k DLP projectors, I asked him to clarify if he's talking about the V7850 or some further future model. He said 3d will scale to dmd resolution and 120Hz due to bandwidth constraints but that seems a reasonable solution to me.

He also said the new projector will have FI in 4k 60Hz. This isn't interesting to me but some seem to care about it.

If I get further clarification I'll post it here. I asked about vesa or dlp link, driving at native dmd resolution for gaming or photography and 120Hz 2D input because these things were relevant to what he was wanting to tell me.
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post #15 of 110 Old 03-13-2017, 01:15 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by AndreNewman View Post
I just got an email from the Acer techie I chatted to at ISE.

He's saying they will have 3D on future 4k DLP projectors, I asked him to clarify if he's talking about the V7850 or some further future model. He said 3d will scale to dmd resolution and 120Hz due to bandwidth constraints but that seems a reasonable solution to me.

.
Sounds good, this might be the same issue that Optoma had--trying to get a 4k to market, but still having technical issues with a feature such as 3D, so maybe later models in the year will have it like the Optoma UHD65. Good to know.
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post #16 of 110 Old 03-22-2017, 06:41 AM - Thread Starter
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I see based on another thread that Epson has a new 4K panel-shifting projector, the Epson Pro Cinema 4040. It currently has the same street price of the 5040UB of $2,699 per ProjectorCentral.com, which is brighter at 3500 lumens vs. 2300 of the 4040, plus not as good black levels. It is in limited distribution, probably for reviews and market analysis. It doesn't use the same LCD panels as the 5040 as well. Since the street price for the 5040 appears to be hovering at $2,499 (per Amazon), I assume the 4040 will sell at about $2,200 or lower. Or--they are dumping the 5040 and going with the 4040 as competition against the up and coming 4k DLPs. So far, the pricing makes no sense.

http://www.projectorreviews.com/epso...jector-review/
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post #17 of 110 Old 03-22-2017, 08:36 AM
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Bob, the 4040 isn't new and was announced at the beginning of last summer. It seems that they are barely making any effort to sell or distribute them. Certainly not intended to supercede the 5040. Visual Apex doesn't even list the 4040.
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post #18 of 110 Old 03-22-2017, 09:33 AM - Thread Starter
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Bob, the 4040 isn't new and was announced at the beginning of last summer. It seems that they are barely making any effort to sell or distribute them. Certainly not intended to supercede the 5040. Visual Apex doesn't even list the 4040.
I realize it isn't new, but thought I should include it in our discussion as something is definitely going on with Epson's limited distribution of this--which usually means market testing. Strange the 4040 is priced basically the same as the 5040, and the 5040 recently had a $500 drop in price promotion until 3/11 for March Madness, but now it looks like the price has dropped $500 at the street level permanently. Something doesn't add up. I guess we will see when the 4K DLPs start shipping how Epson reacts. They might have had the 4040 in the works for awhile before the DLP 4Ks got announced, and now they decided to limit distribution and spend other efforts on developing a true 4K LCD. They probably don't want to flood their 4K market with a cheap fauxK if they are developing a true 4K to compete at $3,000 with the DLPs. Going to be a very interesting year for 4K.
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post #19 of 110 Old 03-28-2017, 06:49 AM
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Originally Posted by 3DBob View Post
Sounds good, this might be the same issue that Optoma had--trying to get a 4k to market, but still having technical issues with a feature such as 3D, so maybe later models in the year will have it like the Optoma UHD65. Good to know.
Well I had some more correspondence with Acer and they will not have 3D for movies (no frame packing) in the coming model but it will (hopefully he says) 120Hz for 3D gaming (frame sequential). He will try to push internally for 3D movies support but if he is successful it will be in later models, not V7850 coming soon.
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post #20 of 110 Old 04-02-2017, 08:43 AM - Thread Starter
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Well, I made the plunge and bought an open box with warranty Epson 5040UB at a great price. I've had several days to play with it and here are the results so far.

I bought this to see if the 4K enhancement would be enough to keep me from wanting a true 4K projector with 3D (looks like it might not happen now). I have an Optoma 131xe projecting on a 159" Dalite Highpower screen. The 131xe is a bright projector at 2,500 lumens and 3D is bright enough, and very clear looking with absolutely no crosstalk (using DLPlink). I also use a Darbee image enhancer for bluray coming from a Sony bluray player.

The Epson is also rated at 2,500 lumens, so I thought it would be as bright as the Optoma. To test 3D on the Epson, I found some cheap RF 3D glasses on Amazon that others had recommended because of the minimum crosstalk. I can say that the Epson being an LCD projector, just doesn't do 3D justice. On medium 3D brightness, crosstalk was minimal-but brightness was lacking. With the brightness on high, it was unwatchable, so you are stuck with a mediocre brightness level--strike one. The image is quirky compared to the Optoma, since the Epson uses 120hz 3D and the Optoma 144hz 3D. The difference is obvious as there is a slight shutter flutter during some scenes with the Epson. The average 3D watcher would probably not see it, but I did. In 3D, the Epson turns the Image Enhancement mode off (greyed out), so there is no advantage there. However, it leaves some image interpolation on and you see less judder--about the only positive I found.

I bought a new Samsung 4K UHD bluray for this test, and hooked it up and played a true 4K UHD of Passengers--same movie I tested in 3D. I had a "meh" moment. While it automatically goes into "4K" enhancement mode, the movie was not much sharper than watching it on the Optoma 131xe. In fact, I really couldn't see any advantage to 4K. I tried watching some 4K youtube videos and the impression was the same. Not much different in apparent resolution. But it does include some frame interpolation that tames the 24fps judder. Again, the only positive I could see. So far, I'm thinking the Epson is going back. In fact, now I'm wondering if I ever really will care about 4K, if 3D is only going to be in 1080p anyway. I have a 60" LG LCD in the living room and that is really all the 4K I need. All in all, it's really been a big disappointment. To someone who has never had a projector or is coming from a previous Epson, the 5040UB might impress, but coming from a DLP, it does not. Plus the blacks are also not that great compared to the Optoma. And when you make the blacks darker using the auto iris, etc., it just tended to decrease any detail in the blacks.

And...here is the real kicker...the 5040UB is a huge beast--it reminds me of older 3-tube projectors. I could barely lift the box to get it into the basement. It's heavy and certainly not a one-person job to mount on the ceiling. I'm using it on table now for testing. Every time I look at it, I just shake my head.

That's where I'm at today. I will give it one more chance to "shine" tonight. If I still feel this way, it's going back.
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post #21 of 110 Old 04-02-2017, 09:57 AM
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So that's not a true 4K PJ? Just accepts the input for UHD but doesn't project 4K. Seems like a lot of just a 1080p PJ at this point. I see Benq is keeping 3D alive at least for 1080p PJ's. They have several new models that have 3D.

I'm not worried about 4K right now for theater room. Personally, for movies, I think 1080p still looks very good. Passengers in 3D was fairly impressive in 3D and I think given the choice of 3D or 4k 2D, I will always choose 3D. The other thing that gets a lot of attention is HDR but I'm not really convinced on that. Seems like most movies are flatter color profile anyway.

On brightness, my cheap 1070 is only 2000 lumens but this seems very bright to me. I do have walls painted black and ceiling tiles a dark gray and I keep ambient light very low. Never had a problem with brightness even for 3D. And yes, next to zero crosstalk with the DLP link 144hz glasses. I think this is the best 3D you can get at home. I say next to zero crosstalk, I think it would be zero if I were to sit about 3 feet further back, but I like sitting closer, 11 feet with 140" screen, it's like you're in a real theater.

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post #22 of 110 Old 04-02-2017, 11:01 AM
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Bob, sorry to hear you had such a bad experience with the 5040. The one thing I would strongly suggest before any final decision is to try the 3D with Epson OEM glasses. I tried some "highly rated" after market glasses once and the cross talk difference was NIGHT AND DAY between them and the more expensive OEMs. I paused it on a frame which had substantial cross talk with the aftermarket glasses and then put on the OEMs, the cross talk completely dissapeared! That being said, on my 132" 1.2 gain screen, I use the normal brightness 3D setting. Using that setting I get little and most often no crosstalk from my Epson 5020. However, when I switch to max 3D brightness setting, the will be some. Fortunately, I don't need that higher setting, so not a problem.

As for 4K, that added resolution is just not a big deal as I find well mastered 1080 BD to be tack sharp and feel that very little to no additional viewing satisfaction would be gained with the added res. That said, I would buy one if it had 3D and no more with 3D were going to be made. Also, agree with Tom about HDR. I think it's way over hyped as very few movies will utilize it and even there, it will be in very few scenes. Not worth getting and new system just so you can see a couple of minutes of enhanced sunsets, etc.
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post #23 of 110 Old 04-02-2017, 11:02 AM - Thread Starter
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So that's not a true 4K PJ? Just accepts the input for UHD but doesn't project 4K. Seems like a lot of just a 1080p PJ at this point. I see Benq is keeping 3D alive at least for 1080p PJ's. They have several new models that have 3D. .
Tom, the 5040UB e-shifts it's 1080 panels to gain double the 1920 resolution of 4K over-all pixels. True UHD 4k has 8k pixels. That increase in pixels just doesn't look much better than 1080p. Certainly not enough to justify the increased cost. Watching the 4K Passengers disc didn't impress me nearly as much as the 1080p 3D. The anti-gravity water scene is incredible in 3D, and so-so in 2D. I agree, there really isn't much to entice me to watch 4K movies if I can watch 3D of the same movie.
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post #24 of 110 Old 04-02-2017, 11:07 AM
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Bob, looks like we were writing the last couple of posts at about the same time, so be sure to read my post right above your last one with regard to the glasses.
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post #25 of 110 Old 04-02-2017, 02:02 PM - Thread Starter
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Bob, sorry to hear you had such a bad experience with the 5040. The one thing I would strongly suggest before any final decision is to try the 3D with Epson OEM glasses. I tried some "highly rated" after market glasses once and the cross talk difference was NIGHT AND DAY between them and the more expensive OEMs. I paused it on a frame which had substantial cross talk with the aftermarket glasses and then put on the OEMs, the cross talk completely dissapeared! That being said, on my 132" 1.2 gain screen, I use the normal brightness 3D setting. Using that setting I get little and most often no crosstalk from my Epson 5020. However, when I switch to max 3D brightness setting, the will be some. Fortunately, I don't need that higher setting, so not a problem.

As for 4K, that added resolution is just not a big deal as I find well mastered 1080 BD to be tack sharp and feel that very little to no additional viewing satisfaction would be gained with the added res. That said, I would buy one if it had 3D and no more with 3D were going to be made. Also, agree with Tom about HDR. I think it's way over hyped as very few movies will utilize it and even there, it will be in very few scenes. Not worth getting and new system just so you can see a couple of minutes of enhanced sunsets, etc.
Barry, with the Samsung glasses I get little to no crosstalk at normal brightness. At high brightness, I get a lot. Others that have compared the Samsung glasses to the Epson saying the Samsung has the lowest crosstalk of any of the glasses available for the 5040UB. Actually the 3D is simply OK. There just is a difference between DLPlink 3D and LCD RF 3D that makes me think twice about the 5040UB. DLPlink 3D is cleaner and flicker free, whereas I found the Epson 3D to have minor flicker moments from scene to scene. It creates a weirdness in the 3D for me and ruins the immersion. You might not notice it if you have not seen much DLP 3D in the past. I still haven't given up, but man is that thing a huge beast. That alone is somewhat of a deterrent.
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post #26 of 110 Old 04-02-2017, 10:16 PM
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Bob, one other thing you could try when the projector is in bright 3D mode, turn down the contrast and see if that helps eliminate the crosstalk which can often be caused by excessive contrast.

Worth a try.
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post #27 of 110 Old 04-03-2017, 10:01 AM - Thread Starter
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Barry, I experimented last night. Invoking bright mode for 3D is just way too much crosstalk, even adjusting the contrast. What I found that did work to get better blacks and more brightness was to use the medium 3D brightness mode and turn up the contrast a bit. I then had the frame interpolation on high, and I also hooked up my Darbee between the bluray player and the projector. The Darbee, if you don't know, increases detail somewhat without noise and ghost lines around objects like unsharp mask does in the photo realm. And I also sat 5 feet closer. Well that was the recipe. I'm back in business with 3D. The frame interpolation is more subtle than I've seen on other TVs and does not destroy the "film" look. Plus it was just enough to stop any glasses shutter flicker that I was seeing before this--along with judder. Also the picture is now knock-out sharp with no crosstalk. So now I'm thinking I'm going to keep it. Just have to get my son over here to help me lift it to attach to a ceiling mount--dang, it's big
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post #28 of 110 Old 04-03-2017, 10:39 AM
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Barry, I experimented last night. Invoking bright mode for 3D is just way too much crosstalk, even adjusting the contrast. What I found that did work to get better blacks and more brightness was to use the medium 3D brightness mode and turn up the contrast a bit. I then had the frame interpolation on high, and I also hooked up my Darbee between the bluray player and the projector. The Darbee, if you don't know, increases detail somewhat without noise and ghost lines around objects like unsharp mask does in the photo realm. And I also sat 5 feet closer. Well that was the recipe. I'm back in business with 3D. The frame interpolation is more subtle than I've seen on other TVs and does not destroy the "film" look. Plus it was just enough to stop any glasses shutter flicker that I was seeing before this--along with judder. Also the picture is now knock-out sharp with no crosstalk. So now I'm thinking I'm going to keep it. Just have to get my son over here to help me lift it to attach to a ceiling mount--dang, it's big
That's great news! All the reviews I've read on that projector from publications I trust were so good that I figured it must be a matter of dialing it in for your particular configuration. Now that you mentioned it, I recall that the guy who calibrated mine did increase the contrast level among other things in the standard brightness mode. So much of this stuff has to do with your screen size, gain, and viewing distance, and getting them all in balance with your projector settings. Sounds like you're well on your way!
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post #29 of 110 Old 04-03-2017, 01:48 PM - Thread Starter
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I got the 5040UB as an open box from a dealer with full warranty for $2k, so I'm trying to like it.
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post #30 of 110 Old 04-08-2017, 12:50 PM
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Well then, we'll just have to see what Epson comes out with later in the year to supercede the 5040. If they drop 3D too, then a 5040 will be in the cards for me.)
I found this today:
"EPSON PRO CINEMA 6040UB LCD 4K (PIXEL-SHIFT) PROJECTOR REVIEW"

I don't know how this compares to the 5040, but the 3D part of the review sounds good:

http://hometheaterhifi.com/reviews/v...jector-review/
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