VIDEO: Sony Tells (Almost) All About Their 3D PlayStation 3 Firmware Upgrade - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 25 Old 03-04-2010, 09:04 AM - Thread Starter
 
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VIDEO: Sony Tells (Almost) All About Their 3D PlayStation 3 Firmware Upgrade


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post #2 of 25 Old 03-04-2010, 12:18 PM
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Yeah, that's the famous one that made everybody with a supposedly "3D Ready" hdtv with hdmi 1.3 cry. At the very end of the video, he (Don Mesa), basically says they are starting with hdmi 1.4, and aren't going to support hdmi 1.3 whatsoever. Also, they are using the Frame Sequential format, not Checkerboard. Sucks for me, as a Samsung PN50A450 owner.
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post #3 of 25 Old 03-25-2010, 11:25 AM - Thread Starter
 
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2 min, 10 sec is where he begins to discc Full HD per eye from the PS3 . This video was shot about two weeks ago.
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post #4 of 25 Old 03-25-2010, 02:12 PM
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So I'm not capable of understanding high-level tech talk, but it seems like sony is not ruling-out use of the PS3 with HDMI 1.3 tvs. Is the second video saying that basically the 3d video will be sent out via HDMI 1.3 at a 1.4 bandwidth, but the audio and other features will not? If so, we could get 1080p to both eyes.

This leaves hope for DLP checkerboard owners who have HDMI 1.3 tvs. In my case, I don't have an audio receiver with HDMI pass-thru anyway, so all audio is passed via toslink. And I don't recall sony anywhere actually saying the upgrade wouldn't include checkerboard support. It certainly seems they would have some economic incentive to make it apply to more than one format (there is at least one potential PS3 buyer waiting to see if his TV would be supported). And I would guess for the next year or so, there will be more checkerboard owners than other format.
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post #5 of 25 Old 03-25-2010, 03:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GordonP. View Post

It certainly seems they would have some economic incentive to make it apply to more than one format (there is at least one potential PS3 buyer waiting to see if his TV would be supported). And I would guess for the next year or so, there will be more checkerboard owners than other format.

incentive for Sony to support checkerboard on PS3 = possibility that PS3 can do checkerboard at all X [(potential PS3 buyers with old 3D-ready DLPs X $299) - (potential Sony 3DTV buyers ready to replace old 3D-ready Mitsubishi or Samsung DLPs if necessary X $3200 approx)]

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post #6 of 25 Old 03-25-2010, 03:35 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GordonP. View Post

So I'm not capable of understanding high-level tech talk, but it seems like sony is not ruling-out use of the PS3 with HDMI 1.3 tvs. Is the second video saying that basically the 3d video will be sent out via HDMI 1.3 at a 1.4 bandwidth, but the audio and other features will not? If so, we could get 1080p to both eyes.

This leaves hope for DLP checkerboard owners who have HDMI 1.3 tvs. In my case, I don't have an audio receiver with HDMI pass-thru anyway, so all audio is passed via toslink. And I don't recall sony anywhere actually saying the upgrade wouldn't include checkerboard support. It certainly seems they would have some economic incentive to make it apply to more than one format (there is at least one potential PS3 buyer waiting to see if his TV would be supported). And I would guess for the next year or so, there will be more checkerboard owners than other format.

All you need is the Mits 3DC-1000 3D format converter. Will be available in a couple of months.
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post #7 of 25 Old 03-25-2010, 04:10 PM
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The PS3 already supports checkerboard output for stereoscopic games like Avatar. I wouldn't think it would be very difficult to do the same with movies.

Here's a link for some relatively cheap glasses.
http://www.3dflightsim.com/product/avatar_2.htm
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post #8 of 25 Old 03-25-2010, 07:05 PM
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I'm mainly interested whether, in theory, a PS3 could send 3-d over 1.3 HDMI to my DLP. Now whether they would be so altruistic as to include checkerboard is another matter.

I doubt many current DLP owners would shell over another $3000 for a sony tv, when a $100 adapter would be sufficient. And sony should be interested in being compatible with all 3-d sets. If the whole PS3 situation was an attempt to increase sony TV sales they probably wouldn't have made PS3's compatible with other brands to begin with.

I'm curious, does anyone know how this $100 adapter will work? Will it be connected betweent he HDMI source and my TV? If so, would i have to switch inputs when I go from cable to Blu-ray, or purchase an adapter for each HDMI input?
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post #9 of 25 Old 03-25-2010, 07:29 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GordonP. View Post

I'm mainly interested whether, in theory, a PS3 could send 3-d over 1.3 HDMI to my DLP. Now whether they would be so altruistic as to include checkerboard is another matter.

I doubt many current DLP owners would shell over another $3000 for a sony tv, when a $100 adapter would be sufficient. And sony should be interested in being compatible with all 3-d sets. If the whole PS3 situation was an attempt to increase sony TV sales they probably wouldn't have made PS3's compatible with other brands to begin with.

I'm curious, does anyone know how this $100 adapter will work? Will it be connected betweent he HDMI source and my TV? If so, would i have to switch inputs when I go from cable to Blu-ray, or purchase an adapter for each HDMI input?

My guesstimate is, it will look like THIS

You are going to have to use some kind of a switcher to have more than one 3D input. Either a 1.4 receiver or a 1.4 2, 3 or 4 to 1 switcher which isn't available (AFAIK) today but will be as they made 1.3 switchers.
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post #10 of 25 Old 03-25-2010, 08:45 PM
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I'll be keeping my eye on Octava to produce an HDMI 1.4 matrix switcher. I have their HDMI 1.3a 4x4 matrix switcher, and it's a thing of beauty. Any 4 inputs to any or all 4 displays simultaneously. Great design and ultra cheap price, especially compared to the "big boys" like Geffen. Octava products just plain work.

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post #11 of 25 Old 03-25-2010, 08:56 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joseph Clark View Post

I'll be keeping my eye on Octava to produce an HDMI 1.4 matrix switcher. I have their HDMI 1.3a 4x4 matrix switcher, and it's a thing of beauty. Any 4 inputs to any or all 4 displays simultaneously. Great design and ultra cheap price, especially compared to the "big boys" like Geffen. Octava products just plain work.

Interesting product they sell:

4 x 2 HDMI Matrix Amp with 7.1 Audio Routing

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Perfect for systems using PS3 which has internal LPCM decoding on HDMI. The 4x2 can take the decoded LPCM from the PS3 and convert to 5.1/7.1 ( 8ch) Analog Audio for easy integration with your high end 5.1/7.1 audio receiver/amp.

http://www.octavainc.com/HDMI%20swit..._7_1audio.html
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post #12 of 25 Old 03-26-2010, 08:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Stewart View Post

My guesstimate is, it will look like THIS

You are going to have to use some kind of a switcher to have more than one 3D input. Either a 1.4 receiver or a 1.4 2, 3 or 4 to 1 switcher which isn't available (AFAIK) today but will be as they made 1.3 switchers.

Since one of the announcec benefits of the DLP adapter is that it supports different 3D input formats. I do not beleive the rumor that it will have only one HDMI input. I expect at least two, one for Blu-Ray player and one for a Cable or Satellite STB and possibly a third for PC game input.
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post #13 of 25 Old 03-26-2010, 08:57 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by walford View Post

Since one of the announcec benefits of the DLP adapter is that it supports different 3D input formats. I do not beleive the rumor that it will have only one HDMI input. I expect at least two, one for Blu-Ray player and one for a Cable or Satellite STB and possibly a third for PC game input.

Here is the original press release from Mits on the 3DC-1000:

Mitsubishi Digital Electronics America Brings 3D to Life at “Experience 3D Tech Zone” at CES

New 3D Adapter Will Enable Cross-Platform Compatibility for 3D Content

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LAS VEGAS — January 5, 2010 —Mitsubishi Digital Electronics America, Inc. (MDEA) will showcase the flexibility and versatility of its 3D-ready TV products by displaying 3D content delivered by various video sources, including Blu-Ray players at CES 2010 in the “Experience 3D Tech Zone”. MDEA has also announced a new 3D adapter which will provide Mitsubishi 3D-ready Home Theater TV owners with an easy and affordable solution to display 3D from a 3D Blu-Ray player. The Mitsubishi 3DC-1000 3D adapter will be available in late spring of 2010. MDEA will be located in CES booth #14548, Central Hall.

Quote:


¹ In order to display 3D images, Mitsubishi LaserVue® & Home Theater 3D Ready TVs require source devices to support checkerboard format for display of 3D gaming or 3D Blu-ray content. Some 3D Blu-ray players (BDPs) may output a checkerboard format that is compatible with Mitsubishi 3D Ready TVs. For 3D BDPs that do not output a compatible checkerboard format, Mitsubishi plans to offer the 3DC-1000 3D adapter. The 3DC-1000 will convert the 3D BDP output to a 3D format that can be displayed by any Mitsubishi 3D Ready TV.

EDIT: I just sent an Email asking how many inputs the 3DC-1000 will have and to verify that it will handle the S-b-S 1080i 3D format. May not hear back until next week as the person who could help me is at a conference and is not expected to return to the office today.
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post #14 of 25 Old 03-26-2010, 03:07 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Walford:

See Email I received from Mits:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...0#post18385190
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post #15 of 25 Old 03-26-2010, 05:09 PM
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Well I was wrong on that one, so regretfully users wiill have to use a switch in order to support different 3D inport sources.
If you write them back in would be nice to know if they see no problem receiving 3D content from STBs receiving sporting events broadcast in 720p 3D by cable channels such as ESPN-3D.
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post #16 of 25 Old 03-26-2010, 05:20 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by walford View Post

Well I was wrong on that one, so regretfully users wiill have to use a switch in order to support different 3D inport sources.
If you write them back in would be nice to know if they see no problem receiving 3D content from STBs receiving sporting events broadcast in 720p 3D by cable channels such as ESPN-3D.

I sent another Email. let's leave this thread for the PS3 upgrade topic.
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post #17 of 25 Old 03-28-2010, 08:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Stewart View Post

¹ In order to display 3D images, Mitsubishi LaserVue® & Home Theater 3D Ready TVs require source devices to support checkerboard format for display of 3D gaming or 3D Blu-ray content. Some 3D Blu-ray players (BDPs) may output a checkerboard format that is compatible with Mitsubishi 3D Ready TVs. For 3D BDPs that do not output a compatible checkerboard format, Mitsubishi plans to offer the 3DC-1000 3D adapter. The 3DC-1000 will convert the 3D BDP output to a 3D format that can be displayed by any Mitsubishi 3D Ready TV.

Interesting wording. Not only does it have to be checkerboard, it has to be a compatible checkerboard, which is something I've never considered. Are there checkerboards that are incompatible?
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post #18 of 25 Old 03-28-2010, 09:52 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Interesting wording. Not only does it have to be checkerboard, it has to be a compatible checkerboard, which is something I've never considered. Are there checkerboards that are incompatible?

I believe it says that either a 3D BD player will output a compatible checkerboard 3D format which DLP RPTV's can use, or it will output a non- compatible 3D format (like frame packed) which is not compatible to DLP RPTVs and the adapter will be required.

AFAIK, there is only one kind of Checkerboard 3D format. Just one of many 3D formats like:

Frame Sequential
Line-by-Line
Side-by-Side
Over/Under
Checkerboard

Etc.
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post #19 of 25 Old 03-30-2010, 04:42 PM
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All jockeying aside. Whats the endgame, when will Sony launch this firmware upgrade for HDMI 1.4? Also the sammy UNC7000 is 1.4 compatible. correct?
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post #20 of 25 Old 03-30-2010, 04:58 PM - Thread Starter
 
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All jockeying aside. Whats the endgame, when will Sony launch this firmware upgrade for HDMI 1.4? Also the sammy UNC7000 is 1.4 compatible. correct?

June/July for the upgrade and yes to the 7000 question
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post #21 of 25 Old 04-06-2010, 01:34 PM
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Ok everyone I have a question; I watched both videos and I get the idea that the PS3 will be able to deliver 3D @ 1080p per eye (assuming the source content is 1080p). Now I noticed in the second video (although no one has yet to even rumor anything one way or the other) that the main speaker when talking about the 3D games he said you could combine that with 5.1 or 7.1 to get full scale experience. So the question I have then is this: Will the PS3 be able to support 1080p to each eye as well as full 7.1 from both games and movies? Some have said hdmi 1.4 is required to support everything, but then others say that the PS3 will be upgradeable to support the 3D aspects of hdmi 1.4, but then others say to that that the PS3 is still an hdmi 1.3 device.

I currently own a PS3 and am looking to upgrade to a 3D TV, but I want to know all the facts ahead of time so I can decide that when I upgrade my TV this summer if I should get a seperate Blu-Ray player to go with it so that I can get the most bang for my buck as they say.

Edit - I just thought of a related question. How would all of this play around an hdmi 1.3 receiver like an Onkyo 606. Assuming the receiver could correctly pass-through the 3D video, would it be able to pull apart 7.1 audio though. In this respect would I need an hdmi 1.4 receiver even if the one I got could pass-through the 3D video?

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post #22 of 25 Old 04-11-2010, 07:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Stewart View Post

Here is the original press release from Mits on the 3DC-1000:

Mitsubishi Digital Electronics America Brings 3D to Life at “Experience 3D Tech Zone” at CES

New 3D Adapter Will Enable Cross-Platform Compatibility for 3D Content

EDIT: I just sent an Email asking how many inputs the 3DC-1000 will have and to verify that it will handle the S-b-S 1080i 3D format. May not hear back until next week as the person who could help me is at a conference and is not expected to return to the office today.


PS3 outputs gaming 3-D at 720P@60Hz and blu-ray 3-D at 1080P@24Hz but my DLP requires 1080P@60 checkerboard for all 3-D input and only supports 3-D on one HDMI input port. The PS3 may support other older HDMI 1.4 listed 3-D ready TVs.

Then we have the two half resolution modes now required by HDMI 1.4a for set top boxes. The Satellite boxes with 1080P output are rumored to also support checkerboard DLP. Most current cable-boxes only support 1080i.

Worst case with the PS3 not supporting older 3-D ready TVs will the Mitsubishi converter handle all those REQUIRED HDMI 1.4 modes and output checkerboard DLP 3-D 1080P@60Hz.

Second, the lecturer mentioned the PS3 fats having a HDMI 1.2 port and only the slims having a 1.3 port. As far as 3-D is concerned the standards mentioned can be supported by HDMI 1.2. My question was, is this guy correct and do the older PS3s have a HDMI 1.2 port as far as bandwidth is concerned or is this guy keying on the lack of the hardware support for the AV link wire in the fats HDMI port making it a HDMI 1.2 port.
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post #23 of 25 Old 04-11-2010, 09:40 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeff_rigby View Post

PS3 outputs gaming 3-D at 720P@60Hz and blu-ray 3-D at 1080P@24Hz but my DLP requires 1080P@60 checkerboard for all 3-D input and only supports 3-D on one HDMI input port. The PS3 may support other older HDMI 1.4 listed 3-D ready TVs.

Then we have the three half resolution modes now required by HDMI 1.4a for set top boxes. These boxes are rumored to also support checkerboard DLP.

Worst case with the PS3 not supporting older 3-D ready TVs will the Mitsubishi converter handle all those REQUIRED HDMI 1.4 modes and output checkerboard DLP 3-D 1080P@60Hz.

Second, the lecturer mentioned the PS3 fats having a HDMI 1.2 port and only the slims having a 1.3 port. As far as 3-D is concerned the standards mentioned can be supported by HDMI 1.2. My question was, is this guy correct and do the older PS3s have a HDMI 1.2 port as far as bandwidth is concerned or is this guy keying on the lack of the hardware support for the AV link wire in the fats HDMI port making it a HDMI 1.2 port.

Does the PS3 really have HDMI 1.3?

http://formatwarcentral.com/2007/05/...-have-hdmi-13/
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post #24 of 25 Old 04-11-2010, 01:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Stewart View Post

Does the PS3 really have HDMI 1.3?

http://formatwarcentral.com/2007/05/...-have-hdmi-13/

So from that the PS3 does have a HDMI 1.3 as far as bandwidth is concerned but lacks two features of HDMI 1.3; lossless audio via the HDMI port and the hardware connectivity for the AV net (CEC), an extra line in the HDMI cable carrys this signal allowing control of various devices thru the HDMI cable.

An error by the lecturer then.

Then support for extended color palette and resolutions is possible for the PS3 but NOT for anything with a HDMI port below 1.3 like the Xbox 360 HDMI 1.2 port. Another point mentioned, the PS3 will not support extended resolutions. I assumed, when listening to the video, because the older PS3s were HDMI 1.2 and could not support double res output at 60Hz that SONY did not write drivers for those resolutions. But if the older PS3s are 1.3 and the lecturer was wrong about the early PS3s having a 1.2 port could he also be misinformed in this also.

The lecturer mentioned judder support in the Sony line. DLP TVs using checkerboard 3-D do not have anti-judder when that feature is turned on. Judder correction is needed for fast moving scenes at a 24Hz frame rate (blu-ray).
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post #25 of 25 Old 05-06-2010, 03:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeff_rigby View Post

PS3 outputs gaming 3-D at 720P@60Hz and blu-ray 3-D at 1080P@24Hz but my DLP requires 1080P@60 checkerboard for all 3-D input and only supports 3-D on one HDMI input port. The PS3 may support other older HDMI 1.4 listed 3-D ready TVs.

Then we have the three half resolution modes now required by HDMI 1.4a for set top boxes. These boxes are rumored to also support checkerboard DLP.
Worst case with the PS3 not supporting older 3-D ready TVs will the Mitsubishi converter handle all those REQUIRED HDMI 1.4 modes and output checkerboard DLP 3-D 1080P@60Hz.

Second, the lecturer mentioned the PS3 fats having a HDMI 1.2 port and only the slims having a 1.3 port. As far as 3-D is concerned the standards mentioned can be supported by HDMI 1.2. My question was, is this guy correct and do the older PS3s have a HDMI 1.2 port as far as bandwidth is concerned or is this guy keying on the lack of the hardware support for the AV link wire in the fats HDMI port making it a HDMI 1.2 port.

Since DLP checkerboard requires 1080P, only those set top boxes that support 1080P can output DLP checkerboard. For now only some satellite receivers can do that.
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