HDMI Switch box and 3D - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 36 Old 08-10-2010, 01:38 PM - Thread Starter
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Good afternoon. I have some of my devices hooked up to an HDMI switch box that goes into my A/V receiver (which is 3D capable). Will the switch box work with 3D content from my Directv box and the 3D blu ray player I'm getting.

Have a Mitsubishi TV and just got the 3D starter kit and was wondering this before I start to do hook up.

Thanks.
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post #2 of 36 Old 08-10-2010, 01:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ptwyzard View Post

Good afternoon. I have some of my devices hooked up to an HDMI switch box that goes into my A/V receiver (which is 3D capable). Will the switch box work with 3D content from my Directv box and the 3D blu ray player I'm getting.

Have a Mitsubishi TV and just got the 3D starter kit and was wondering this before I start to do hook up.

Thanks.

You don't have enough HDMI inputs in the receiver to have the receiver do the switching?
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post #3 of 36 Old 08-11-2010, 06:07 PM
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I know that Direct TV 3D would work fine with a HDMI 1.3 switcher but I am not sure about 3D Blu Ray as I know when they require a 1.4 receiver to handle the new ECID information. I assume that switchers and splitters are the same and would require 1.4 as well but hear that 1.3 cables are compatible because they have the same bandwidth.

I have a receiver with multi in but am interested in working with a switch to a single input on my receiver and then to splitter out to my TV so I can have separate inputs professional calibrated for each source device but still keep full quality audio format support. This being said I have been unable to find any 1.4 devices to support this.

I've been wondering if it was really necessary to require 1.4 for 3D Blu Ray or if it is just a nice racket for HDMI. I understand that 1.4 also offers ethernet and return audio capabilities which requires physical different ports and cables but still don't understand why 1.3 receivers can't be firmware upgraded to support the 3D aspect if 1.3 cables are already compatible.

Any input is greatly appreciated!

Thanks,
Paul
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post #4 of 36 Old 08-12-2010, 08:20 AM
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An HDMI 1.4 receiver is required to remove the audio from the 3D BR players when using the 1080p packed frame output from the player since the audio is contained in the blanking interval between the two 1080p framesw and not in the location that is in with other 2D or 3D formats.
All HDMI high speed cables can be used with HDMI 1.4a 3D formats since the bandwith requied is the same as that require for 1080p/60 HD.
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post #5 of 36 Old 08-12-2010, 01:10 PM
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Thanks for the info Waldord! So is it correct that a switcher or splitter must also be HDMI 1.4 to work with 3D Blu Ray?
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post #6 of 36 Old 08-13-2010, 07:41 PM
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With a Mits your going to want two 3D-1000 adaptors or a Panasonic Bluray player. With the Panasonic you can hook it right to the TV. And run your Directv thru your adaptor. Works great.
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post #7 of 36 Old 08-14-2010, 05:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by busch97 View Post

With a Mits your going to want two 3D-1000 adaptors or a Panasonic Bluray player. With the Panasonic you can hook it right to the TV. And run your Directv thru your adaptor. Works great.

No, one adapter behind a 3D receiver or a 3D(1.4) switch should be fine.
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post #8 of 36 Old 08-14-2010, 03:22 PM
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Here are a couple of HDMI switchers/splitters than are supposed to be compatible with 3D including Blu Ray:

http://www.hdtvsupply.com/hdmi-switc...dmi-input.html
http://www.hdtvsupply.com/at-hd-v14.html

If I get a chance to try out either of them then I will report back!
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post #9 of 36 Old 08-19-2010, 02:20 PM
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It would seem that this HDMI 1x2 switch would be the better buy if only interested in converting 3D video/audio from a single 3D BDP, although apparently only tested on a Samsung BDP. Look forward to your testing results.

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post #10 of 36 Old 09-01-2010, 05:36 PM
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El pablo

What is your source device and display? Are you looking for a switch or splitter ?

Both of these products have been tested with samsung 3DTV and samsung 6900 DVD player

If your looking for a switch we have an out of box I could send you out to test for the rest of the people on AVS forum and report back

Kent
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post #11 of 36 Old 01-13-2011, 11:50 AM
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Joining in on this. I have a similar issue.

I am trying to split the HDMI signal coming out of the DirecTV receiver. Want one to go into a Mitsubishi 65738 (with optical audio going out from Mits to receiver) so that I can watch 3D DTV channels, and one HDMI signal going out to Yamaha 1800 receiver that is not 3D compatible. Will switch to this when I want to watch conventional DTV channels.

Have tried splitters, but they're not working. need a 1x2 switch.

Looking at either this unit:

http://sewelldirect.com/2x1-or-1x2-H...ough_specs.asp

or this unit:

http://www.monoprice.com/products/pr...=2#description

The Monoprice one is overkill...

You said earlier that you thought a 1.3 switch would still work for DTV 3D signals, is that correct?

Any advice?
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post #12 of 36 Old 01-13-2011, 01:21 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlVacado View Post

You said earlier that you thought a 1.3 switch would still work for DTV 3D signals, is that correct?

Any advice?

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post #13 of 36 Old 01-22-2011, 07:30 PM
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I have a Pioneer VSX 1120 and a Mits WD73C9 with the Mits full 3d starter kit as well as a Verizon Fios motorola HDDVR model QIP72161 and a PS3. My setup runs like this...

The Mits 3d box has the vsx1120 running into it and then the 3d box out to the tv. I have component cables running from my fios box to the vsx1120 as well as optical audio and can see 3d from the PS3 great as well as 3d from the fios box except for when I pause/rewind etc on the dvr then it messes up but as soon as I restart the 3d program on fios it works fine. Is this normal? I had thought that HDMI was required to view 3d but it's coming thru only connected via component cables. I tried this because I was having tons of trouble and could not switch between PS3 and Fios with both devices connected via HDMI. I already read a ton of the forums about Mits DLP's and I think I was even more confused after reading them than prior but was wondering about my 3d fios coming thru component???

First let me apologize if I posted in the wrong forum/thread, I am new here but if I did post in error I am sorry. Thank you shinksma, I understand now why my situation seems to be working. Even though it appears it does have a few small glitches, at least it is working at all. That is a huge improvement from anything I had been able to accomplish thus far.
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post #14 of 36 Old 01-23-2011, 06:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sarasotabill View Post

I have a Pioneer VSX 1120 and a Mits WD73C9 with the Mits full 3d starter kit as well as a Verizon Fios motorola HDDVR model QIP72161 and a PS3. My setup runs like this...

The Mits 3d box has the vsx1120 running into it and then the 3d box out to the tv. I have component cables running from my fios box to the vsx1120 as well as optical audio and can see 3d from the PS3 great as well as 3d from the fios box except for when I pause/rewind etc on the dvr then it messes up but as soon as I restart the 3d program on fios it works fine. Is this normal? I had thought that HDMI was required to view 3d but it's coming thru only connected via component cables. I tried this because I was having tons of trouble and could not switch between PS3 and Fios with both devices connected via HDMI. I already read a ton of the forums about Mits DLP's and I think I was even more confused after reading them than prior but was wondering about my 3d fios coming thru component???

This is my understanding - I encourage corrections, as always:

3D from BD requires HDMI, because it is a specific new way of packing the information that uses fairly high bandwidth (the equivalent of 1080p48).

3D from cable/sat can be transmitted via component because it is a squished signal that has the same bandwidth as regular cable HD. Although not completely accurate, think of it this way: the regular 1080i picture data is replaced by two 540i signals (and 720p with two 360p) that look like a regular signal to everything but a 3D TV. So the cabling etc that can handle "normal" cable HD signals can handle the 3D signals too.

Does that make sense? I was actually wondering whether 3D via cable would work over component, since it "should"...and now we know it does.

Again, AFAIK,

shinksma

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post #15 of 36 Old 01-23-2011, 06:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlVacado View Post

I am trying to split the HDMI signal coming out of the DirecTV receiver. Want one to go into a Mitsubishi 65738 (with optical audio going out from Mits to receiver) so that I can watch 3D DTV channels, and one HDMI signal going out to Yamaha 1800 receiver that is not 3D compatible. Will switch to this when I want to watch conventional DTV channels.

Have tried splitters, but they're not working. need a 1x2 switch.

Looking at either this unit:

http://sewelldirect.com/2x1-or-1x2-H...ough_specs.asp

or this unit:

http://www.monoprice.com/products/pr...=2#description

The Monoprice one is overkill...

You said earlier that you thought a 1.3 switch would still work for DTV 3D signals, is that correct?

Any advice?

I struggled with this topic a bit, trying to figure out an optimal solution to my particular situation. However, in your situation, since DTV uses HDMI 1.3 to pack the 3D signal, I believe you can just run the signal to your AVR and out to the TV as you would normally for 2D. Switches and splitters get involved when 3D BD is used via HDMI 1.4.

To expound further should you want to get an HDMI 1.4 source, and just to air my current understanding, and if anyone wants to correct any mis-statements, please do.

Switches and splitters do not examine the HDMI data, they just make sure it all gets handshook via EDIDs. So any switch/splitter that can handle HDMI 1.3 can handle HDMI 1.4 (overall bandwidth is the same), since the switches/splitters don't process the video/audio data.

However:
As alk3997 says, if you use switches and splitters that keep everyone talking together, you get the lowest-common-denominator compatibility, which means that if anything is HDMI1.3 (or less), then your HDMI 1.4 3D components will dumb themselves down to non-3D mode.

Similarly, if you use a splitter to send data from a source to your AVR and the TV, the TV's capabilities (e.g. audio) will dumb-down the HDMI signal so that the AVR gets the same info. I guess this is what happened for you? 2 channel audio only when you used the splitter?

So the trick is to make sure that if you are trying to use HDMI 1.4 3D (i.e. from a BD player), you need to make sure everything from source to display are HDMI 1.4. If you use a discrete switch to select sources then the display will only see the one source. If you use a discrete switch/splitter like the one from Sewell, then the signal only goes to the one display device, and the source is happy to send HDMI 1.4 signals. Any AVR in between must be 1.4-compatible, of course.

If you use the matrix switch from Monoprice it will work, as long as the 3D source going to the 3D display is not also selected for the other output going to a non-HDMI1.4 device (because the matrix switch will share all EDID data amongst the devices sharing the same signals, lowest common denominator, etc).

I have ordered discrete (unpowered) switches from Monoprice, and will do the diode-reversing modification to one of them to make it a manual discrete splitter, since that should solve my situation (I only need to have one source and one display device active at any one time, and I need to bypass my HDMI1.3 AVR for 3D BD but would like to use it for all other times).

I did consider the Sewell product, but went for the Monoprice for price and known performance history (others have done what I need to do).

Sorry for the long-winded explanation, just trying to clear my thoughts on the matter too.

shinksma

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post #16 of 36 Old 02-26-2011, 07:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by el pablo View Post

Here are a couple of HDMI switchers/splitters than are supposed to be compatible with 3D including Blu Ray:

http://www.hdtvsupply.com/hdmi-switc...dmi-input.html
http://www.hdtvsupply.com/at-hd-v14.html

If I get a chance to try out either of them then I will report back!

These did not work with my Oppo-93 and as soon as you plug in your non-3D receiver to the second port (for HD audio), at least on my Denon 5308 these switches "leak" the EDID to output 1 and everything shuts down (like DirecTV HR24) stating your TV does not support 3D. Unplug the second port and everything comes back on.

This little $25 device works great!! Supports all 3D outputs including 1080/24p.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...r_mts_prod_img

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post #17 of 36 Old 04-03-2011, 06:10 PM
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Key digital splitters work great. I am using a couple of them. One for my Titan Ref 3D projector in the theater and one for my Samsung 3DTV.

I had to use a Gefen HDMI detective though. You use that device to capture the EDID info from your display then you can plug it directly into the DIRECTV box and then out of the detective to the splitter.

That way the directv receiver always thinks it is connected to the TV. Directv shuts off its 3D if it doesnt like the EDID. Atleast that was how if was 6 months ago when i originally set my 3D stuff up. Maybe different now, but they originally only had a limited # of supported 3D displays.
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post #18 of 36 Old 12-10-2011, 08:48 PM
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The weird thing is that these switchers (except for Atlona) claim to be HDMI 1.3b compliant yet they are (supposedly) 3D compliant. how can they be? 3D compliance (for frame packing) is part of HDMI 1.4 spec, not HDMI 1.3 (although you can use HDMI 1.3 highspeed cable to run HDMI 1.4 3D frame-packing signal)

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post #19 of 36 Old 12-11-2011, 01:35 AM
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David-

There are now 4 types of HDMI cables with respect to signal transmission.

Standard speed with and without ethernet

High speed with and without ethernet.

There is no official numerical hdmi reference such as a 1.3b or 1.4 cable.

High speed cables support adequate bandwidth for the latest color space a 4k x 2k resolution. Consequently all "high speed" cables will transmit the 3D video.

A hdmi switch that is rated at 1.3b spec but passes 3D frame packed video signal is quite possible if it passes adequate bandwidth but lacks all the requirements of hdmi spec 1.4. Lacking all the requirements of hdmi 1.4 will prevent the switch from being rated 1.4 but that does not mean it will not pass 3D. It becomes a game of trusting the manufacturer's claims as opposed to a standard specification. I have a switch here that passes 3D just fine but has no audio so using it I had to connect the audio separately to my AVR and use the switch just to connect video to the 3D projector. This is not weird at all if you understand that just because a device lacks one part of the spec does not mean it lacks other parts.

For a switch to be rated hdmi 1.4, it must also be capable of audio split off in two directions using coaxial audio. It also needs to have ethernet connections in addition to bandwidth for 3D and 4kx2k resolution.

Switches that meet all the required 1.4 specs can be quite expensive. For example-
http://www.hdtvsupply.com/hdmi-1-4-switch-splitter.html Please read what this switch will do vs the others previously listed at lower pricing. IMO, if you really want hdmi switching for 3D, but you don't care about audio, then the 1.3b rated hdmi switches that list "3D compatible" will do the job.

I had a "good" 3D switching system here but used fiber Optic for audio and two older AVR's for audio preamp. It was a real kludge but lacked all that the latest 3D AVR offered. When I looked into a true hdmi 1.4 3D switching to add to my system, it became obvious that I would be throwing lots of money and ending up with another kludge. The best option was to just bite the bullet and buy a good 3D hdmi 1.4 AVR. I'm glad I did and have 7.1 home theater with lots of capability, power, and flexibility. I like Denon so I upgraded to the 4311ci.
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post #20 of 36 Old 12-11-2011, 05:14 AM
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In terms of cable, even my really ancient Ultralink, Monster, Blue Jeans Cable and Kimber bough 5 years ago can pas frame-packed 3D and all have ARC and Ethernet capabilities (the Monoprice and other budget cables can't do them)

I didn't know the switcher story because whenever I use a switcher in the past, I only use them for video and not audio.

So if I only need 2 ins and 1 out powered switcher (no sound required), which switcher would you recommend? The ability to pass-through frame packed 3D signal is a must.

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post #21 of 36 Old 12-11-2011, 06:37 AM
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Quote:


So if I only need 2 ins and 1 out powered switcher (no sound required), which switcher would you recommend? The ability to pass-through frame packed 3D signal is a must.

I can't recommend a 2x1 powered switch but I can tell you that the one I selected had no trouble passing 3D from 2 different BluRay Players and the 3D from my PS3. It was purchased on the basis of being hdmi 1.3 spec at 6.75Gbps. It is a 5x1 switch from Octava. It is also IR remote control switchable. This is nice because I programmed that into my Home Theater Master so a Macro would not just switch the AVR but also the hdmi switch. I don't recall exactly what I paid through an ebay store but somewhere around $75 seems right. When I bought it I wasn't concerned about 3D compatibility but when I did go 3D at first, It just worked with no trouble.

Here is a mfg link I found for you-

http://www.octavainc.com/HDMI%20switch%205port.htm


BTW- I have some old hdmi cables here that do not pass Blu-Ray HD at all. They are hdmi 1.0 and only work on an old DVD player. I have never tested any of my cables for ethernet compatibility or audio feedback because I have a 16 port ethernet switch and use all cat wiring to all my devices. 3D Projectors have no audio feedback requirements. I assume the more recent cables I bought that claim "high speed" are also ethernet and audio feedback compatible. audio feedback is where you have hdmi handling audio in two directions from a panel monitor that has a tuner program source. Obviously to use either of these 1.4 features you would need an AVR with 1.4 hdmi or that expensive switch I referenced earlier.

Good luck in your quest to get everything working to your satisfaction.
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post #22 of 36 Old 12-11-2011, 07:12 PM
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thank you for the info!

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post #23 of 36 Old 12-11-2011, 07:20 PM
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I ended up buying this one: http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?...E:L:OC:CA:1123

I hope it's okay.

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post #24 of 36 Old 12-12-2011, 06:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Susilo View Post

The weird thing is that these switchers (except for Atlona) claim to be HDMI 1.3b compliant yet they are (supposedly) 3D compliant. how can they be? 3D compliance (for frame packing) is part of HDMI 1.4 spec, not HDMI 1.3 (although you can use HDMI 1.3 highspeed cable to run HDMI 1.4 3D frame-packing signal)

Not entirely true. 1.3 can support 3D pass-thru which is all these little switch devices need to do. Mine still works like a champ (set it and forget it).

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post #25 of 36 Old 12-12-2011, 08:37 AM
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This week I will receive the ViewHD 8 Port Multi Functional Switch/Converter $128.95 ($141.95) from Amazon.com.Anyone have it?
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post #26 of 36 Old 12-12-2011, 10:21 AM
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I've had an old Monoprice 4X1 switch about 5 years now, and it passes a 3D BD framepacked signal just fine, incredibly enough.

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post #27 of 36 Old 12-26-2011, 09:51 PM
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Got a question for the esteemed panel - especially krichter1 .......

I've been eyeing a 3D TV, but my two-year old Pioneer receiver (VSX1018) is apparently not capable of passing the 3D signal via HDMI. I'm using a PS3 as my Blu-ray source. If I get an HDMI switch (like the Kinivo that krichter1 mentioned), could I then send the PS3's 3D video to the TV, while using the PS3's optical out for the audio? I know I'll have to give up lossless sound, but I could live with that on the few 3D titles I have.

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post #28 of 36 Old 12-26-2011, 10:23 PM
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Yes you can

Just go into the PS3 audio setting and set the output to optical

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post #29 of 36 Old 12-27-2011, 06:06 AM
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Thanks, David. But I haven't thought this thing through. If I went that route, I would be giving up lossless on all my Blu-rays - not just the 3D ones. And that I am not willing to do. I guess I would need some type of splitter/distribution amp that would send the HDMI signal to both my receiver (for the audio) and the TV (for the video). Or does anything like that even exist?

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post #30 of 36 Old 12-27-2011, 06:11 AM
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You canuse a splitter. But a splitter is pricey. You might as well buy a Panasonic BDT-310 in order to get a dual-output BD player.

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