Sony HDR-TD10 3D-Capable Camcorder - Page 28 - AVS Forum
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post #811 of 1579 Old 07-31-2011, 10:44 AM
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Tom won't want to revert to Movie Studio v 11, Mark. That has the same bugs as Vegas 10d did. I was pretty disappointed in MS v11 when I installed it here and tested it. Currently it is uninstalled! Vegas Pro 10e is the only almost bug free software I use. Actually, I have absolutely no bugs in it at all here. As for performance, I still need to use dynamic ram to play sections of the timeline in real time. Even that didn't work well in 10d and as for MS v 11, it is only 32 bit so it has that limitation as well. ( renders about 50% as fast as Vegas pro 10e. 64 bit. ) Vegas MS v11 is a good idea but it fails on implementation.
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post #812 of 1579 Old 07-31-2011, 11:24 AM
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Don, Could you be specific about the bugs in Platinum 11? I recall the AC3 5.1 bug (irrelevant to me, as I use the higher-resolution stereo setting in the camera so far), but I do not remember anything else. I certainly did not encounter any bugs in my use on the netbook, although, of course, rendering speeds were slow.

It is important for people to know the options. Having a few bugs is better than no working software or clumsy work-arounds or, for many, spending $500 for software that is only marginally superior *depending on one's needs*.
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post #813 of 1579 Old 07-31-2011, 11:48 AM
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I've been using the trial version of Movie Studio Platinum 11 the past 3 weeks with my primary focus on learning to edit my Sony 3D TD10 video. My video renders (custom of course, with ISO creation) have been stable with 3D titling and dissolves. I do hear the audio 5.1 problem but am pleased with the video results. There is a repeatable problem with the trial software related to 5.1 audio. If I save the project settings for all new projects with audio at 5.1, VMS11 will always start to open, then fail to initialize the project and ask me to send error reporting to Sony. I have reproduced this on the 3 different PCs and solved this problem by always setting the project to open as stereo then changing to 5.1 for the render as needed. Before I close VMS11 I make sure the project is saved as stereo.

Thanks to all on this thread for teaching me...........
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post #814 of 1579 Old 07-31-2011, 12:50 PM
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Anyone have any experience with aftermarket batteries? We got a digipower battery to go with our td10 and when i plug the camera in to charge the charge light just flashes and doesn't charge. Any ideas?

I Like Digital!
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post #815 of 1579 Old 07-31-2011, 01:40 PM
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5.1 audio distortion was the main one. Tom and I have had enough of that nonsense to mess with that anymore. I also have had numerous issues of the MS v 11 not launching but freezing up on booting. That may be an issue with something I have running on my system that conflicts, but when I reboot windows and launch it first, its OK, if I try to launch it after working in Vegas Pro or using DVDA 5.2 the MSv11 will fail and lock up. My version is not a trial but fully licensed and paid for from Sony.

I'm sure you are fine if you don't care about audio. I place a higher importance on sound quality and 5.1 capability.
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post #816 of 1579 Old 07-31-2011, 02:02 PM
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1. Putting aside audio for the moment, if the main bug is simultaneous use of Platinum and Pro, that is not relevant for getting Platinum instead of Pro for the average user (not poster here). I own Pro and have used Platinum, so I am not exhibiting owner bias here (and neither are you!).

2. Whoa, Don, I am an audio professional! I care deeply about audio quality. That is precisely why I do NOT use 5.1 - because the bitrate per channel is lower than it is in stereo on the camera. I choose audio quality over surround sound. You value surround sound but at the expense of audio quality (which is characterized by frequency response, dynamic range, distortion and level and quality of compression, among other things). As in video, higher bitrates on average means higher quality, ceteris paribus. And, again, there are more bits available per channel in stereo mode than in 5.1 mode on the TD10 (448kbps have to be distributed across 5 channels; 256 kbps are distributed across two channels). Am I missing something (aside from surround sound)?

Of course, I know we both know that the best audio is obtained externally - off the camera. But this is about on-camera audio.
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post #817 of 1579 Old 07-31-2011, 02:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markr041 View Post
"At present, the only software that will import the Sony MVC files is Vegas Pro 10e..."

No, Sony Movie Studio Platinum 11 does that and has many of the 3D editing features of Vegas Pro 10. It only costs $94.
If a Sony TD10 user wants something fast and simple, there is a cut and join editor built into the Sony PMB software that comes on the CD with the TD10 camcorder.

This definitely works great on non-Mac MS Windows based PCs. To do simple edits, no render is needed, so there is no loss of bits quality or frame rate like there is when Sony Vegas renders the file for 1080p24 or 720p60 blu ray burning.

Since Mac based computers were mentioned in this thread, although non-Mac machines work 100% with PMB, it is not known if PMB will run on a Windows version for Mac, as PMB may need to "register" a TD10 camcorder connected at one time to a USB port in order to "enable" these MVC video cut and join features.

Does anyone know if the Mac emulation of Windows operating environment is robust enough to activate the native 3D 1080i60 editing features of PMB? I have heard of other software like this running ok on a Mac when diligently applied.

See this thread about PMB editing. http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1349684

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post #818 of 1579 Old 07-31-2011, 02:21 PM
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"If a Sony TD10 user wants something fast and simple, there is a cut and join editor built into the Sony PMB software that comes on the CD with the TD10 camcorder.

This definitely works great on non-Mac MS Windows based PCs. To do simple edits, no render is needed, so there is no loss of bits quality or frame rate like there is when Sony Vegas renders the file for 1080p24 or 720p60 blu ray burning."

This is all true. But after you have created a merged MVC 3D video file in PMB, what do you do with it? Suppose you want to see your "movie" on your 3D HDTV. How do you view it in 3D? You cannot even view it in 3D using PMB on your computer.

In Vegas you can can burn a 3D bluray that will play in any 3D-enabled bluray player. So, you can conveniently watch your 3D video in 3D. And, of course, while editing you can preview in 3D on the computer (many options).

You cannot burn a 3D bluray in PMB. So, again, what do you do to watch in 3D your pristine 3D video file made in PMB?
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post #819 of 1579 Old 07-31-2011, 03:46 PM
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Mark the whole point of 5.1 audio IS SURROUND! I have never pushed high quality in bit rate of stereo over lesser bit rate 5.1 surround as my game has always been about entertainment. I place a very high value in the entertainment aspect of video and sound. Entertainment is the very reason I do 3D over 2D. It certainly does not bring higher quality to my screen than what I get with 2D images. In the TD10 the sole purpose of the 5.1 or I should say the 5.0 channel numbers are in the ambiance of the scene. From the start I have always said my goal here is to recreate the experience in my programming. As professional TV producer, that has not always been my goal. In my other life, TV advertising, my goal was to expose my clients product and services to the public. I can't say I have ever been in a project where the state of the art in high quality was the primary goal. It is a noble goal and I admire what some here, especially what Joe Clark has done with quality. BUT, while I can admire that, my personal interest is in entertainment.
So, with that in mind, I see little point in bypassing the 5.1 capability of my TD10 to use the MS v11 software. I have no problem with others who choose to use it and decide to avoid the buggy stuff to have a low cost edit solution. It should do well.
Now you may be wondering why I was even interested in MS v11 in the first place. That is a good question and the answer is to emulate what you have achieved, by loading it on my laptop for on the road 3D editing work if needed. It certainly has no place here on my quadcore 64 bit system. I have Vegas Pro for that. But as it seems to have some issues, I put that goal on the back burner for now. I only own MS Platinum v11 because the v10 was my work around for 5.1 but now is no longer needed. It is just a curiosity at this point.

Quote:
You cannot burn a 3D bluray in PMB. So, again, what do you do to watch in 3D your pristine 3D video file made in PMB?
Load it back into the TD10 and play it? Has anyone tried this yet? I said before I had created a full production once and used PMB to load it back to the camcorder to play but that was a 2D project. Never tried 3D.
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post #820 of 1579 Old 07-31-2011, 04:24 PM
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I had a good experience using Sony Vegas Platinum 11 on my netbook while traveling, ignoring the long render times. However, I was disappointed to learn that the project files from Platinum 11 are not compatible with Vegas Pro 10.

Normally, Platinum project files work in Vegas Pro (not vice versa). However, you get the message in Vegas Pro 10e that the Platinum 11 project files are "newer" and will not work. What a crazy thing!
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post #821 of 1579 Old 07-31-2011, 05:46 PM
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Regarding 5.1 vs. stereo on the TD10: for natural sound and entertainment value, definitely go for the 5.1. Hearing sounds play back in all the channels in the home theater is worth it (even my non-techie wife notices when surround sound is not happening). 3D sound to go with the 3D video.

For spoken and general ambient sound, the 5.1 audio from the TD10 is pretty good (448kbps for all channels). For a music production with more energy in the higher frequencies, recording separate audio on something like a Sound Devices 788T ($6k) will produce pro-quality 7.1 audio. Adding in pro mics & other gear puts it up over $10k. For a scripted production (or higher-end documentary), that's a reasonable cost (though it might make more sense to rent the gear, or pay a sound guy who already owns this or similar gear). For a 3D BD disk (with uncompressed DTS-MA etc.) or theatrical release (uncompressed), this makes sense. For internet only or cable/sat, highly compressed 5.1 will be delivered and while the quality will be higher with higher quality source material, the average consumer may not be able to hear the difference.

Creating a 'proper' 5.1 (or 7.1) surround mix requires a treated sound mixing room with monitor speakers (can be relatively lower cost thanks to Chinese knock-offs). I have seen (heard) quite a bit of variance in surround mixing in my home theater- ranging from amazing to really bad (commercial BluRay productions). I think it's important to also test surround mixes on typical consumer gear in typical living rooms to get a good all-around mix (it's not enough to mix on neutral speakers). There are ProTools plugins which can use convolution to recreate a variety of consumer spaces to check the mix (can also allow somewhat decent surround mixing on headphones using HRTFs (Head-Related Tranfer Functions: convolution for binaural 3D audio)).

Devices like the Zoom H4N can record decent quality 4 track audio which can be mixed into 5.1 or 7.1. An H4N & decent low-cost mics for 4 channel recording can be had for under $1k. A Zoom R16 ($400) can record 8 channels (also need more mics so more $$$).

Working with separate audio is a lot more work and doing a 'proper' surround mix is even more work. If not doing a professional production (for profit), the built in highly compressed 5.1 is probably adequate (might be interesting to do an A/B test between stereo and mixed-down 5.1 (or just the L&R channels)).

Working with Cineform Neo I just found out that it destroys the 5.1 track when doing the 3D MUX (5.1 channels are present but all zeroes): another challenge with 5.1 is buggy software (work around is the add the original MTS file to sequence and use its 5.1 track aligned to the stereo track (must shift about 2 frames to line up)).
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post #822 of 1579 Old 07-31-2011, 06:08 PM
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Mark, you are correct in calling out my error about Sony Vegas Pro 10e being the only software that will currently import the Sony MVC files. I am aware that Sony's Movie Studio software will also import these files and I should have mentioned that.

However, the real point of my response to the Mac user was to point out that editing MVC files from the TD10 on a Mac is only (at present) possible under Windows and that requires installing Boot Camp and a Windows operating system. That point, which I think is critical to any Mac user purchasing the Sony HDR-TD10 and hoping to edit the MVC files that it produces is true and important for the Mac user to note.

Tom
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post #823 of 1579 Old 07-31-2011, 06:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TomWheeler View Post
Mark, you are correct in calling out my error about Sony Vegas Pro 10e being the only software that will currently import the Sony MVC files. I am aware that Sony's Movie Studio software will also import these files and I should have mentioned that.

However, the real point of my response to the Mac user was to point out that editing MVC files from the TD10 on a Mac is only (at present) possible under Windows and that requires installing Boot Camp and a Windows operating system. That point, which I think is critical to any Mac user purchasing the Sony HDR-TD10 and hoping to edit the MVC files that it produces is true and important for the Mac user to note.

Tom
I notice that there is a MAC folder on the Sony PMB disk that came with my TD10. I wonder what that supports. I won't have a chance to test this on a MAC myself for some time.

Can anyone try the TD10 PMB software disk on a MAC with Mac's own OS, and also on a MAC with a windows install?

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post #824 of 1579 Old 07-31-2011, 07:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markr041 View Post
"If a Sony TD10 user wants something fast and simple, there is a cut and join editor built into the Sony PMB software that comes on the CD with the TD10 camcorder.

This definitely works great on non-Mac MS Windows based PCs. To do simple edits, no render is needed, so there is no loss of bits quality or frame rate like there is when Sony Vegas renders the file for 1080p24 or 720p60 blu ray burning."

This is all true. But after you have created a merged MVC 3D video file in PMB, what do you do with it? Suppose you want to see your "movie" on your 3D HDTV. How do you view it in 3D? You cannot even view it in 3D using PMB on your computer.

In Vegas you can can burn a 3D bluray that will play in any 3D-enabled bluray player. So, you can conveniently watch your 3D video in 3D. And, of course, while editing you can preview in 3D on the computer (many options).

You cannot burn a 3D bluray in PMB. So, again, what do you do to watch in 3D your pristine 3D video file made in PMB?
For better results than connecting to my TD10, I have my 3D monitor connected to my PC via HDMI.

I use the software player called "Stereoscopic Player. There is a functional free trial of this at the link below.

Don could you take a look at this please. I ask since I know you have a Vizio. Is that the passive kind with interline polarized? That would be like my LG monitor.

When the TD10 is connected directly to my monitor, I have to use SBS mode from the TD10, which cuts my horizontal resolution.

With the passive monitor connected to the PC, using "stereoscopic player," I can use the "Row Interlaced" stereoscopic mode native to my monitor, so I get full resolution 3D on my monitor, both full screen and in smaller windows.

The quality looks better than directly connecting my TD10 to the TV, since I do not have to use the lossy SBS half resolution mode. Since I did not have to render and burn any bluray disks, nor do I have to down-convert to 1080p24 or 720p60, I am getting as good as or better quality than either of those bluray formats.

Using "Stereoscopic Player," my monitor remains set to 1080p60, and this player software is doing excellent 3D playback in real time directly from my original or PMB trimmed MVC files.

My PC doing this excellent 3D playback has an older CPU and mediocre video card, and still gets great results. I have a 3.16GHz core2duo 8500 CPU, and an Nvidia 8500GT running XP SP3.

I can't see taking the time and expense to run Vegas and burn bluray disks for viewing family clips on the TD10. I still have to use Vegas if I want a bluray to hand out, or want a 3D still frame capture.

The 3D and 5.1 of the family is entertaining. I have to think that a lot of people would prefer to go the PMB / software player route with their TD10 for simplified fast editing. This puts the PS3 on the back shelf (it only does bluray 3D or lossy SBS files), and the HTPC up front for TD10 3D playback for me, since the picture quality is tops, and the simplicity is all there.

link for this 3D player software: http://www.3dtv.at/Shop/Index_en.aspx

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post #825 of 1579 Old 07-31-2011, 08:22 PM
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Richard- I uses SBS-Full output now from Vegas, not SBS half. All Passive monitors reduce resolution by half anyway so this way I'm not reducing to 1/4 resolution which really gets jaggy on hard line diagonals. Personally, I have no use for watching MTS files on my PC. To review clips, I look at them in 2D or connected to the 3D monitor via HDMI from the TD10. Beyond that, I'm in edit session on Vegas and now reviewing editing in the timeline playback using Dynamic ram. After that, it's screening the iso file burned to BD-RE. The only use I would have for a PC player is to play the iso rendered file directly on my PC in 3D.

I believe the MAC folder for the disk that came with the TD10 is for loading the TD10 manual and how to get the most from shooting the TD10. It doesn't appear to have a MAC version of PMB on the disk.

Not sure if this version will work for TD10 MVC but you can check it out-

http://esupport.sony.com/perl/swu-do...d=4613&SMB=YES
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post #826 of 1579 Old 07-31-2011, 08:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Landis View Post
Richard- I uses SBS-Full output now from Vegas, not SBS half. All Passive monitors reduce resolution by half anyway so this way I'm not reducing to 1/4 resolution which really gets jaggy on hard line diagonals. Personally, I have no use for watching MTS files on my PC. To review clips, I look at them in 2D or connected to the 3D monitor via HDMI from the TD10. Beyond that, I'm in edit session on Vegas and now reviewing editing in the timeline playback using Dynamic ram. After that, it's screening the iso file burned to BD-RE. The only use I would have for a PC player is to play the iso rendered file directly on my PC in 3D.

I believe the MAC folder for the disk that came with the TD10 is for loading the TD10 manual and how to get the most from shooting the TD10. It doesn't appear to have a MAC version of PMB on the disk.
ALSO

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Load it back into the TD10 and play it? Has anyone tried this yet? I said before I had created a full production once and used PMB to load it back to the camcorder to play but that was a 2D project. Never tried 3D.
Ya good thing Vegas has full SBS. That gives me great 3D still frames.

I had abandoned HTPC in favor of PS3 for years until recently needed it for a few things the PS3 wouldn't playback correctly. For those I got a 50' HDMI cable to the theater TV from my DLNA server PC. So now with 3D I have another use for that cable. No need to render or burn blu ray and still get top 3D quality.

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post #827 of 1579 Old 08-01-2011, 09:00 AM
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My curiosity overcame my better judgement and I just ordered my 2nd HDR-TD10.
Will be mounting them both on my bench and controlling them with my dual camera LANC controller.
I'm extremely interested in what I can do with four separate video streams from four different perspectives.

Did IQ's suddenly drop sharply while I was away?
I enjoy 3D in spite of HDMI 1.4!
Full screen only 3D doesn't cut it!
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post #828 of 1579 Old 08-01-2011, 10:21 AM
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I'm extremely interested in what I can do with four separate video streams from four different perspectives.


spider vision
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post #829 of 1579 Old 08-01-2011, 10:43 AM
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The perfect solution to get rid of the bugs in Vegas Pro 10e (should have been in the other thread)!
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post #830 of 1579 Old 08-01-2011, 12:13 PM
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spider vision

PMB wouldn't be able to edit 2 3D TD10 streams at once. Oh well.

I see the value in often having one TD10 set to a wider view than the other, and using the two 3D views as an inset or alternate of the same subject matter and time. Very useful for non-staged precious moments.

Spiders have up to 8 eyes. The peripheral eyes judge distance of prospective prey, predators or mates. The two main eyes have higher resolution and are used for closer work. Some species lack the main eyes. I suppose spiders that lack those don't care what their mates or food looks like in detail. The high resolution visual streams on spiders is limited to zero or two.

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post #831 of 1579 Old 08-01-2011, 12:39 PM
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Frank- I thought you already did buy two TD10's. Guess I got ahead of myself.

I have been considering buying a second one too. While it will have advantages in using both for wide IA for my large scene 3D shots. My real intent is to get another viewpoint of a given shot. In editing, this is an extreme advantage toward getting that professional look not possible in a single camera run and gun shoot. It's not just what Richard was talking about but actually shooting from different angles. In my other life, I normally shot using 3 and 4 camera productions. I know your goal is quite different from mine but having two 3D TD10's offers me quite a few production advantages, especially since most of my travels I will have my wife along. She can be quite a good shooter if she concentrates. Reason is she follows direction very well. The trick will be getting her to take the amateur shoots I am doing today serious. She never questioned or deviated when I had some serious talent on set for a TV show and she ran a camera for me. But our last Disney trip, I gave her the Bloggie 3D and she shot a grand total of 12 seconds of video all day.

On a shot like that Fireworks show I could set up one camera full wide and a second constantly zooming in for closeups, then cut between the two OR as Richard suggested, use the PIP format.
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post #832 of 1579 Old 08-01-2011, 05:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Landis View Post

Frank- I thought you already did buy two TD10's. Guess I got ahead of myself.

I have been considering buying a second one too. While it will have advantages in using both for wide IA for my large scene 3D shots. My real intent is to get another viewpoint of a given shot. In editing, this is an extreme advantage toward getting that professional look not possible in a single camera run and gun shoot. It's not just what Richard was talking about but actually shooting from different angles. In my other life, I normally shot using 3 and 4 camera productions. I know your goal is quite different from mine but having two 3D TD10's offers me quite a few production advantages, especially since most of my travels I will have my wife along. She can be quite a good shooter if she concentrates. Reason is she follows direction very well. The trick will be getting her to take the amateur shoots I am doing today serious. She never questioned or deviated when I had some serious talent on set for a TV show and she ran a camera for me. But our last Disney trip, I gave her the Bloggie 3D and she shot a grand total of 12 seconds of video all day.

On a shot like that Fireworks show I could set up one camera full wide and a second constantly zooming in for closeups, then cut between the two OR as Richard suggested, use the PIP format.

Great Spider close up!

I was at Disney World + Universal May 19-25 for my youngest daughter's wedding. I wonder which of us was 1st to do 3D there.

Though most of my shooting was "us," the TD10's 3D night shots of castle, fireworks and parades were also fantastic. It's like the camera records the same way my eyes see it.

Is it just me, or do other people have the issue needing to switch the LCD viewfinder display to 2D mode (while 3D recording), in order to see it in bright sunlight?

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post #833 of 1579 Old 08-01-2011, 05:47 PM
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Just you, Richard. Use a Hoodman HD450. I don't see a difference in screen brightness in 2D over 3D. But if that works for you, why not do it.
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post #834 of 1579 Old 08-02-2011, 12:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Don Landis View Post

Just you, Richard. Use a Hoodman HD450. I don't see a difference in screen brightness in 2D over 3D. But if that works for you, why not do it.

Hmmm.... I wonder if my TD10 is defective. Can you please get me a photo of what your TD10 viewfinder looks like in bright sunlight? Thanks.

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post #835 of 1579 Old 08-02-2011, 01:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Richard Adams View Post

Hmmm.... I wonder if my TD10 is defective. Can you please get me a photo of what your TD10 viewfinder looks like in bright sunlight? Thanks.

If you watch this video you will find that your opinion is shared.

Did IQ's suddenly drop sharply while I was away?
I enjoy 3D in spite of HDMI 1.4!
Full screen only 3D doesn't cut it!
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post #836 of 1579 Old 08-02-2011, 02:04 PM
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Can I just check, when I copy my td10s files to the pc are they saved in 2d and not 3d?
When I play them in powerdvd11 it's saying the bitrate is around 15MB/s, picture quality is noticably lower than when viewed direct from the camcorder on the same monitor and it also doesn't fill the screen width ways. To me it looks like it's processing a 2d video into 3d.
IF this is the case, how can I save and view the 3d files on my pc? Obviously I don't want to keep them on the camcorder as it's filling up fast.



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Is it just me, or do other people have the issue needing to switch the LCD viewfinder display to 2D mode (while 3D recording), in order to see it in bright sunlight?

I was shooting in bright sunlight on sunday and I did notice that the viewfinder was much easier to see in 2d rather than 3d. I had to change it to bright too as I could barely see it in 3d in the standard brightness.
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post #837 of 1579 Old 08-02-2011, 02:42 PM
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Richard- My point was that the 2D screen is not bright enough in bright sunlight either. ( My Opinion) I use a Hoodman and that works for me. If you find the 2D screen is adequate then stop whining and just use it! Obviously, my eyesight is not as good as yours.
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post #838 of 1579 Old 08-02-2011, 10:03 PM
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Originally Posted by cdb1 View Post

Can I just check, when I copy my td10s files to the pc are they saved in 2d and not 3d?
When I play them in powerdvd11 it's saying the bitrate is around 15MB/s, picture quality is noticably lower than when viewed direct from the camcorder on the same monitor and it also doesn't fill the screen width ways. To me it looks like it's processing a 2d video into 3d.
IF this is the case, how can I save and view the 3d files on my pc? Obviously I don't want to keep them on the camcorder as it's filling up fast.

I was shooting in bright sunlight on sunday and I did notice that the viewfinder was much easier to see in 2d rather than 3d. I had to change it to bright too as I could barely see it in 3d in the standard brightness.

Thanks cdb1, Frank and Don for the observations about the TD10 viewfinder in sunlight.

cdb1, when 3D files are copied to the PC from the TD10 using either PMB or Windows copy function, they will be in 3D and aren't converted to 2D during the transfer.

PowerDVD11 does not play TD10 3D files in actual 3D unless you first convert them to a bluray iso with Sony Vegas, mount it on a virtual bluray drive, and then play back in powerdvd11 using the "cinema" mode. Alternately you can burn the iso to actual optical media and playback using a bluray drive and powerdvd11.

When powerdvd11 plays these 3D MVC files in non-cinema mode, they will be displayed in 2D mode or in a 2D to 3D conversion that is no where near as nice as the actual 3D, since this playback mode of powerdvd11 ignores the 2nd eye 3D information contained in the file.

From a user's standpoint, it is ridiculous that powerdvd11 processes 3D files this way. I suspect it is related to bluray licensing that they do not play the files in true 3D from any source except when it appears to be coming from a bluray disk in the cinema mode. The PS3 has a similar limitation, which is additional proof that there is a licensing issue that does not permit 3D playback from files.

Instead of bothering with all that work in PowerDVD11, I use the "stereoscopic player" for true 3D playback of 3D TD10 files. Perhaps this non-usa based product isn't affected by the licensing limitations.

Stereoscopic Players gives me better looking playback of the TD10 files than I get when directly connecting the TD10 to the same monitor, since the TD10 only supports my monitor in HALF SBS mode, and this reduces the resolution. Stereoscopic Players doesn't have to use sbs mode.

I do use powerdvd11 to display 3D still photos captured from TD10 3D files in full SBS mode 3840x1080 mode using from Sony Vegas to do the single frame capture to a jpg file that has the sbs image in it.

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post #839 of 1579 Old 08-03-2011, 07:03 AM
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Thanks for that Richard. So I can safely delete the 3d files on my TD10 now I've dragged and dropped them to my PC via a card reader. (Why oh why is the TD10 so slow at transferring...about 14hours for 60GB)
I've tried the steroscopic player but it's not much better than powerdvd11, it's still like there's a loss of resolution. My picture is by far the best when connected hdmi td10 to monitor (acer 27") however I am getting quite abit of screen tear if that's the right term.
Powerdvd does a reasonable job of converting some pictures and video to 3d, others it completely messes up.


As an aside, I bought Tron3D for testing my monitor with and played through pdvd11 it looks every bit as good as I'd expect my td10 to look.
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post #840 of 1579 Old 08-03-2011, 10:35 AM
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Originally Posted by cdb1 View Post

Thanks for that Richard. So I can safely delete the 3d files on my TD10 now I've dragged and dropped them to my PC via a card reader. (Why oh why is the TD10 so slow at transferring...about 14hours for 60GB)
I've tried the steroscopic player but it's not much better than powerdvd11, it's still like there's a loss of resolution. My picture is by far the best when connected hdmi td10 to monitor (acer 27") however I am getting quite abit of screen tear if that's the right term.
Powerdvd does a reasonable job of converting some pictures and video to 3d, others it completely messes up.

As an aside, I bought Tron3D for testing my monitor with and played through pdvd11 it looks every bit as good as I'd expect my td10 to look.

The 14 hours sounds slow. Are you using PMB or direct file transfer? If direct transfer works faster, and it's speed is okay, then PMB is simply not as robust. Others have reported that PMB is slower than direct transfer, but the beauty of PMB is that files are ready to use with PMB for video trimming.

I seem to recall direct transfer is 2-4x faster than the 14 hours you mentioned, and I will do a test on my system for that later today.

Potential problem areas to cause slowness include a slow USB hub, a slow USB port, a defective USB cable, other tasks on the PC using up hard drive bandwidth, or defective TD10.

It is a common practice to have a backup of your content before deleting it from the camcorder. A simply way to have a backup is to use an external USB drive that are fairly inexpensive these days. Almost any USB drive that your PC supports can be used for direct backup from the PC.

The TD10 can backup directly to some newer WD passport drives, mentioned in earlier pages on this thread.

When the TD10 backups directly to a drive, or when PMB is used, the file structure is maintained to keep track of recording events and dates. When directly copying via the USB ports on a PC, the filenames may not correspond with file names that the TD10 would pick if it was directly backing up to a drive connected to it without a computer.

The monitor I've used with the TD10 and Stereoscopic Player on the PC is discussed in this thread. It's a 23" passive. http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1340108

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