Sony HDR-TD10 3D-Capable Camcorder - Page 31 - AVS Forum
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post #901 of 1579 Old 08-19-2011, 12:56 PM
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The "spec" say also fullHD, but imo 1080interlace is FoolHD
Shoot 1min of 3D MVC video and calculate real bitrate.
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post #902 of 1579 Old 08-19-2011, 02:15 PM
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The actual bitrate depends on the scene; that is the point about *variable* bitrate. So one arbitrary short scene may reveal little about the maximum. The fact is the maximum MVC bitrate is 28Mbps (combined, two channels); that is not rhetoric like "full" HD. And, any reading of bitrate by software must obtain the bitrate for each channel.

I just used MediaInfo to analyze a single Sony MVC clip (of 10 seconds) right from the camcorder. It reports that the "overall" bitrate is 26.4 Mbps, and the "maximum" bitrate is 28Mbps.

Maybe Mediainfo is conspiring with Sony to report false information, or maybe you do not know what you are talking about, on this issue. I do agree with you that hoping for a firmware upgrade is fruitless.
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post #903 of 1579 Old 08-21-2011, 02:06 PM
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I recently tried shooting some video of a Lake Superior sailboat race with one of my Sony HDR-TD10s and besides the fact that I didn't get acceptable results, I was quite frustrated with my inability to see the LCD screen at all.
This really becomes a problem when I can't even tell if it's recording or not since there is no indication other then on the screen which I can't see.

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post #904 of 1579 Old 08-21-2011, 02:19 PM
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"This really becomes a problem when I can't even tell if it's recording or not since there is no indication other then on the screen which I can't see."

I guess you can't read either: there is a recording lamp on the camera (p. 87, manual).

Granted, it's in the front, but it's there and its red.

And, by the way, I can see the screen in bright light, not very well, but I can see it (including on the beach), enough to know not only whether but what I am shooting.

But I of course agree that a viewfinder is very useful, if that is the point other than sympathy for your vision handicap.

I really dislike negative rants (which usually are also incorrect), but nothing personal: I love the videos and the gear.
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post #905 of 1579 Old 08-21-2011, 02:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markr041 View Post

"This really becomes a problem when I can't even tell if it's recording or not since there is no indication other then on the screen which I can't see."

I guess you can't read either: there is a recording lamp on the camera (p. 87, manual).

Granted, it's in the front, but it's there and its red.

And, by the way, I can see the screen in bright light, not very well, but I can see it (including on the beach), enough to know not only whether but what I am shooting.

But I of course agree that a viewfinder is very useful, if that is the point other than sympathy for your vision handicap.

I really dislike negative rants (which usually are also incorrect), but nothing personal: I love the videos and the gear.

You can call it a "rant" if you prefer.
I would actually like to have some good results with these cameras and am always looking for useful suggestions.
The recording LED on the other end of the camera is of no use whatsoever (yes, I actually can read) but I'm glad you can see the display.
Nobody I've shown it to can see it in the same situation either by the way. Perhaps both of mine have a defective screen?

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post #906 of 1579 Old 08-21-2011, 02:45 PM
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It is useful to correct misinformation, like the incorrect info you gave on the recording indication.

Maybe change your friends?

And the problem with the using a high-resolution lcd screen in bright light is well known, and, more importantly, Don gave us useful info on using a Hoodman, with part number, to deal with it. So if you read the thread, along with the manual, you would have already seen a discussion of this and one solution.

Search for 'Hoodman.' Useful?

And, you could add a mirror to the front, at angle on your rig, so you can see the tally light you had no idea was on the camera. Useful?
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post #907 of 1579 Old 08-21-2011, 02:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markr041 View Post

It is useful to correct misinformation, like the incorrect info you gave on the recording indication.

Maybe change your friends?

And the problem with the using a high-resolution lcd screen in bright light is well known, and, more importantly, Don gave us useful info on using a Hoodman, with part number, to deal with it. So if you read the thread, along with the manual, you would have already seen a discussion of this and one solution.

Search for 'Hoodman.' Useful?

I read the entire thread and am familiar with the "Hoodman" as if you care.

You are now entering my ignore list.
Feel free to put me on yours if you like.

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post #908 of 1579 Old 08-21-2011, 03:33 PM
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Hey Frank- Hoodman is in business for a reason. Pros have been using hoods on monitors for decades. I don't care if it's a Sony 8020 CRT or an LCD screen on a broadcast HDCAM, they all are bad in bright sunlight.

But aside from the Hoodman, I will often just hit the 2D screen button on the side of the camera as the 2D mode adds significantly more brightness. This is important to me if I started shooting something important and didn't have the Hoodman on. Doing this will usually add enough monitor to be able to frame the shot.

To save you the trouble of searching for my reference, the model number of the Hoodman is HD-450. If I'm shooting out doors, I carry the Hoodman the same as a ziplock bag to protect from a rain cloud and a couple extra batteries on every shoot.

I ditto Mark's comment on the rant attitude posts. I don't mind rants as long as the info is correct. Bad attitude and bad reason is annoying.
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post #909 of 1579 Old 08-22-2011, 05:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Landis View Post

Hey Frank- Hoodman is in business for a reason. Pros have been using hoods on monitors for decades. I don't care if it's a Sony 8020 CRT or an LCD screen on a broadcast HDCAM, they all are bad in bright sunlight.

But aside from the Hoodman, I will often just hit the 2D screen button on the side of the camera as the 2D mode adds significantly more brightness. This is important to me if I started shooting something important and didn't have the Hoodman on. Doing this will usually add enough monitor to be able to frame the shot.

To save you the trouble of searching for my reference, the model number of the Hoodman is HD-450. If I'm shooting out doors, I carry the Hoodman the same as a ziplock bag to protect from a rain cloud and a couple extra batteries on every shoot.

I ditto Mark's comment on the rant attitude posts. I don't mind rants as long as the info is correct. Bad attitude and bad reason is annoying.

When the Sony is mounted on my stabilizer, I can't just turn the thing around to see the LCD indicator on the other side now can I?
Much of the video I shot was ruined because I thought it was recording when it was not.
My information was not incorrect, just incomplete I suppose.
The fact is, I can see my Iphone 4 screen and my Canon screens in the same conditions and I had assumed I would be able to see the Sony screen as well.
Holding my eye up to a Hoodman seems impractical to me in the conditions I'm shooting in but I'll look into it.

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post #910 of 1579 Old 08-22-2011, 07:07 AM
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I just decided I'm going to ask my friend to build me a little circuit to convert the flashing red record indicator on the lens side of the Sony to a bright blue LED on the side I can actually see.
Problem solved!

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post #911 of 1579 Old 08-22-2011, 08:11 AM
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Good for you! Idea- tell him to check out fiber optics. May not be bright enough. I'd be curious how difficult it will be for him to get at the circuit board near the lens to access the existing LED connections. These new consumer camcorders are really compact inside. I have seen the Sony glass case display of the TD10 opened up and I don't envy him if he tries to take one apart.


Hoodman also makes a loupe with adapter rubber to use but you don't want this as it is for 2D. I bought one and it is worthless. Never use it.

My SOP these days is to just shoot with auto mode on and put the screen in 2D which is brighter by a little bit. Then if still having trouble I break out the Hoodman. No need to stick your face up against it. I just look at it from normal shooting distance and it makes everything easy to see.
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post #912 of 1579 Old 08-22-2011, 08:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Landis View Post

Good for you! Idea- tell him to check out fiber optics. May not be bright enough. I'd be curious how difficult it will be for him to get at the circuit board near the lens to access the existing LED connections. These new consumer camcorders are really compact inside. I have seen the Sony glass case display of the TD10 opened up and I don't envy him if he tries to take one apart.

That's not what I had in mind.
I'm going to suggest that he just put the circuit in a small box with a photo sensor that I'll stick on the flashing red LED on the front of the camera and run a wire with the blue LED and stick it on the front of the camera. Quite simple really. I could power it with the 5VDV from the LANC port but probably won't as that will eliminate the composite video which I like to use.

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post #913 of 1579 Old 08-22-2011, 08:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Don Landis View Post



Hoodman also makes a loupe with adapter rubber to use but you don't want this as it is for 2D. I bought one and it is worthless. Never use it.

My SOP these days is to just shoot with auto mode on and put the screen in 2D which is brighter by a little bit. Then if still having trouble I break out the Hoodman. No need to stick your face up against it. I just look at it from normal shooting distance and it makes everything easy to see.

I'm going to try to fabricate a sun shield for my TD-10s this afternoon and see what I can do.

Did IQ's suddenly drop sharply while I was away?
I enjoy 3D in spite of HDMI 1.4!
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post #914 of 1579 Old 08-22-2011, 09:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Landis View Post

Hey Frank- Hoodman is in business for a reason. Pros have been using hoods on monitors for decades. I don't care if it's a Sony 8020 CRT or an LCD screen on a broadcast HDCAM, they all are bad in bright sunlight.

But aside from the Hoodman, I will often just hit the 2D screen button on the side of the camera as the 2D mode adds significantly more brightness. This is important to me if I started shooting something important and didn't have the Hoodman on. Doing this will usually add enough monitor to be able to frame the shot.

To save you the trouble of searching for my reference, the model number of the Hoodman is HD-450. If I'm shooting out doors, I carry the Hoodman the same as a ziplock bag to protect from a rain cloud and a couple extra batteries on every shoot.

I ditto Mark's comment on the rant attitude posts. I don't mind rants as long as the info is correct. Bad attitude and bad reason is annoying.

I quickly learned the first day outdoors, at Disney World Animal Kingdom last May, to always put the screen in 2D mode. The camcorder still records 3D, but I can actually see the screen and the red REC indication on screen, as opposed to the green letters of the non-recording indication.

The family got mad when I realized I hadn't been recording, and we all had to backtrack to stand by the dinosaur statue again. It was a good lesson to always hit the 2D button right there next to the display when outdoors. This is obviously 99% why that 2D button is right there for direct access.

I'll bet I was the first one on the planet to use the TD10 at Animal Kingdom.

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post #915 of 1579 Old 08-22-2011, 10:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Adams View Post

I'll bet I was the first one on the planet to use the TD10 at Animal Kingdom.


That is a cool thing about shooting video in 3D with these new 3D camcorders and the TD10 in particular is more often than not you are capturing subject matter that has never been recorded in 3D video before since most 3D filming in the past has been done by film. OK, here is my likely 1st list:

A Hawaiian Luau taken at sunset overlooking Waikiki

A professional Magic Show, Shave Ice making, and a Hawaiin Band performing at a Child's First Birthday Party

A Japanese Bon Festival at a Japanese Shrine in Oahu

Halibut Fishing off Homer, Alaska in Cook Inlet

An outdoor wedding in Alaska

Fishing the Seward Silver Salmon Derby in Nine Foot Swells in Resurrection Bay
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post #916 of 1579 Old 08-22-2011, 10:08 AM
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When I used it on my stabilizer out on my boat the other day and couldn't tell if it was recording or not, the display was in fact in 3D mode.
I just did some experiments in the sun with it in 2D mode and was able to tell if it was recording or not but just barely.
No need to comment on my bad vision as I have already stated that my eyesight is not very good. (been putting off retina surgery.)

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post #917 of 1579 Old 08-22-2011, 10:25 AM
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I'll bet I was the first one on the planet to use the TD10 at Animal Kingdom.

Maybe you did beat me by a day or two Richard, but I'll bet I beat you publishing an edited production to YouTube.

I was there on May 22. On the 21st we went to Epcot.

I love Disney.

We went to Universal two weekends ago. Wife was there for a big insurance meeting so we stayed an extra day and saw the Harry Potter village at Universal. Universal is more expensive than Disney.
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post #918 of 1579 Old 08-22-2011, 12:02 PM
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I beat you all: first use of the TD10 and any 3D camera in Sunshine City Shopping Mall, NT, Hong Kong!

Inexpensive.
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post #919 of 1579 Old 08-22-2011, 02:53 PM
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I beat you all: first use of the TD10 and any 3D camera in Sunshine City Shopping Mall, NT, Hong Kong!

Inexpensive.

You're probably right about that, though Don and I were comparing Disney World dates. Are you sure about this since there prior 3D cameras? What date is your claim actually?

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post #920 of 1579 Old 08-22-2011, 02:53 PM
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Originally Posted by markr041 View Post

I beat you all: first use of the TD10 and any 3D camera in Sunshine City Shopping Mall, NT, Hong Kong!

Inexpensive.


I don't think so. I thought Icerat4 was the first to own one ( in the US) and shoot video we all saw here. But if you are referring to trying one out, I shot one at CES in January the opening day. Other than the rep there (Sony Employee) I was the first one at CES to pick it up and try it out. It was love at first sight! But Richard and I were talking about first at Animal Kingdom.
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post #921 of 1579 Old 08-22-2011, 03:02 PM
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Richard- When at Epcot waiting for the fireworks, I had several Disney employees come up and ask about the TD10. They knew about 3D but had no idea it was available in a camcorder and without glasses. I gave them quite a demo as we waited for the show to start.
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post #922 of 1579 Old 08-22-2011, 03:10 PM
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Hey, guys,

I was not claiming I was the first to own or use a TD10. Full stop. The claim was I was the first to use one in this shopping mall in Hong Kong, while you were at those boring Disney places. Maybe I needed to use a.
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post #923 of 1579 Old 08-22-2011, 03:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Landis View Post

Maybe you did beat me by a day or two Richard, but I'll bet I beat you publishing an edited production to YouTube.

I was there on May 22. On the 21st we went to Epcot.

I love Disney.

We went to Universal two weekends ago. Wife was there for a big insurance meeting so we stayed an extra day and saw the Harry Potter village at Universal. Universal is more expensive than Disney.

Universal more expensive? I suppose so if you eat at Universal's Emeril's and skip the Brown Derby, Coral Reef, and Cinderella's Castle at Disney

It's a photo finish for the Sony TD10 3D at Animal Kingdom, as I was also there on the 22nd. I fired up PMB, which gives the date and time. Judges: for a photo finish my time stamp shows 9:40AM on May 22 as the time of my first clip there just inside the security area. What's your time stamp on the 22nd Don?

Epcot - our clan decided to skip that on this trip, so I have no 1st video to compare for that. You win. We did see Magic Kingdom and Disney Studios though. Only missed Epcot.

May 21st was my 3rd daughter's wedding on top of the Castle Hotel in Orlando. At times other than when I walked the bride down the aisle, the video from my TD10 was 10x better than the video from the pro with the Cannon HD camcorder. Must have been an older Canon used on the purchased wedding video. He should have used a polarizer. Even without a polarizer, the video from the TD10 was great.

What a coincidence that both of us were at Animal Kingdom on the same day. My time stamp for the showing of the Lion King four sided stadium seating show was 4:35PM. Did you see that one?

But I was at Disney Quest / Disney Pleasure Island on May 20th with the TD10. Have you played the 3D multi-player Pirates game at Disney Quest? The 20th for the category of "any Disney World attraction" has me as the winner overall.

Haven't posted any 3D anything in public yet. You win on that one.

I did both Universal Islands of Adventure with Harry Potter and Universal Studios on May 25th, and left Florida that evening to avoid the "high priced" season, which seems to be an oxymoron...

Good thing PMB has the actual date and time for the TD10 recordings, which means my post is on topic.

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post #924 of 1579 Old 08-22-2011, 04:19 PM
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The family got mad when I realized I hadn't been recording, and we all had to backtrack to stand by the dinosaur statue again.


I think the touchscreen is abit sensetive at times. I've gone to press the record button and it registers two touches instead of one, so it starts recording then stops recording immediately. If you don't notice, it throws your start/stop sequence out until you realise you're stopping not starting and vice versa.
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post #925 of 1579 Old 08-22-2011, 08:38 PM
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I think the touchscreen is abit sensetive at times. I've gone to press the record button and it registers two touches instead of one, so it starts recording then stops recording immediately. If you don't notice, it throws your start/stop sequence out until you realise you're stopping not starting and vice versa.

You can kill the on screen record spot by turning on the record time display. I used the on screen record button once in a while but find the record timer more useful so that has become my usual setup. Don't miss the onscreen record button at all.
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post #926 of 1579 Old 08-22-2011, 09:04 PM
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Yes, quite a coincidence Richard. It's good we didn't run into each other or we would have spent the whole day jaw jacking and not shooting. OK you win! I had to pull up my first shot that day of Animal Kingdom, see below. You were in about an hour before me.

As for cost- I have FL residents discounts on Disney tickets and 20% off on all restaurants. Fast Pass is free at Disney. Souvinirs are 15% discount. Bottom line is I save quite a bit that I don't get at Universal. The Express pass or whatever they called it nearly doubled my day ticket cost which was $85. I did get 15% hotel discounts on all restaurants and souvenirs, however.

My Fl residents multi day lifetime pass puts me at $35 per day. Universal was a smaller park and cost us $85 per day plus a $65 for express pass which I did not buy. There was no lifetime multiday either. Regardless Universal was fun and I can see going back with my grandson when he is 4 or 5. I thought Universal had more and better rides for youngsters.

Lion King was shot beginning at 1:39PM so I did beat you on that one. The production unedited except for splitting into 3 clips in Vegas for timing is on my YouTube channel. You should go to my YouTube channel: DonLandis and check out what I have edited up there from Disney. I also have a long version of Animal Kingdom that isn't up there. Had it up for a short while but YouTube took it down because the file size was so large. It included the jungle tour which was quite bouncy. We also spent a day 23rd at Magic Kingdom but I haven't edited anything from there yet.

Quote:


But I was at Disney Quest / Disney Pleasure Island on May 20th with the TD10. Have you played the 3D multi-player Pirates game at Disney Quest? The 20th for the category of "any Disney World attraction" has me as the winner overall.

I was at Downtown Disney on Friday at 9:42AM walking around. Wife had a business meeting that morning so I was just killing time. We stayed at the hotel across the street, The Wyndham. This location makes for easy walk across the street access to Downtown Disney. Also good for an evening stroll to include Pleasure Island. My first 3D video production was a tour through that area shots completed in the evening of the 20th. The second production was part of that tour and is posted on YouTube- I called it "Mostly Mozart" It was of the Italian quintet group but I can't recall their name. It looks like 4 musicians but the 5th played an ipad keyboard and was in the audience, had the ipad linked with wireless mic to the board. They were located out in front of the Fulton House. So, Richard, were you shooting before 9:42 AM on the 20th at that Disney location?
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post #927 of 1579 Old 08-23-2011, 11:51 AM
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So, Richard, were you shooting before 9:42 AM on the 20th at that Disney location?

According to time stamp from Sony PMB, I was recording with the TD10 facing the parking lot side of the Disney Quest / AMC Theater locale at 9:28AM on the 20th. We went shopping and eating first. Then went to Disney Quest when it opened, followed by wedding rehearsal and then a party to mingle with the groom's relatives from MN at a rented house nearby.

I have a brother and sister who are FL residents, though haven't figured out a way / forgot to ask about discounts using their residency.

At Universal on the 25th, did both parks in one day with double park fast pass picking and choosing. I have TD10 3D video for the Harry Potter's Butter Beer and Pumpkin Juice purchase and toast, though didn't have time to chat with Shrek's donkey this trip.

I found your youtube channel and see you have SBS videos from the Sony TD10 that I will play later today when I'm at my video office computer.

Youtube staff allows some people longer videos. I know one person with that privilege. The reasons how and why youtube grants that privilege are obscure.

If a person posts youtube videos with copyrighted material / music performances playing in the background, youtube might automatically delete the video and take away the privilege to post long videos. This can be as innocent as copyright Disney music playing in the background at the theme park. Was there any flak about Epcot fireworks, as I remember that has a lot of music in it? (didn't watch yours yet).

I have great 3D TD10 video of the Magic Kingdom parade / fireworks which I'm reluctant to post on youtube.

"With Liberty, HDTV and Justice for all."
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post #928 of 1579 Old 08-23-2011, 12:50 PM
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I have a brother and sister who are FL residents, though haven't figured out a way / forgot to ask about discounts using their residency.

Give Disney a little more credit- They use a picture ID with Florida residence and also finger print scan so your Fl Residents pass is loaded with ID. I don't know anyone who has figured out how to cheat the system legal documents. Of course counterfeit can also be used if you are into that sort of lifestyle.

The copyright issues are interesting with You Tube. No doubt in my mind that technically, any distribution of a recording of copyrighted music is outside the Fair Use provision. Having said that, There is still a huge quantity copyright violations on YouTube. What it demonstrates is a society that is not in sync with the laws. Therefore there is little to no enforcement. It is a random stoppage. I got the notice attached to some of my videos but they have not been taken down. I also have long run time privileges. But it seems there is a balance between long run time and file size.
Bottom line- There appears to be no evenly enforced You Tube rules. It is most inconsistent.
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post #929 of 1579 Old 08-27-2011, 02:00 AM
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Does anybody think Sony will update the f/w on the TD10 to be compatible with AVCHD 2.0? Ive been reading about this today and its most interesting, currently with my PAL TD10 I record my 3D stuff and convert using Vegas 10e to 720p50 3dbd's, all is great but obviously there is a drop in resolution, I did notice the AVCHD 2.0 standard now includes 1080i25, my TD10 records at 1080i50 for 3d I think, would 1080i25 work better rather than currently converting to 720p50? or if Sony dont update then would Vegas be able to do this?
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post #930 of 1579 Old 08-27-2011, 04:48 PM
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Originally Posted by emporer View Post
Does anybody think Sony will update the f/w on the TD10 to be compatible with AVCHD 2.0? Ive been reading about this today and its most interesting, currently with my PAL TD10 I record my 3D stuff and convert using Vegas 10e to 720p50 3dbd's, all is great but obviously there is a drop in resolution, I did notice the AVCHD 2.0 standard now includes 1080i25, my TD10 records at 1080i50 for 3d I think, would 1080i25 work better rather than currently converting to 720p50? or if Sony dont update then would Vegas be able to do this?
Where did you find 1080i25? It's not mentioned in the AVCHD 2 specs that I can see.

http://www.avchd-info.org/format/index.html

If 720p50 looks worse than 1080i50 then why convert and not just burn the 1080i 3dbd?
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