JVC GS-TD1 3D-Capable Camcorder - Page 69 - AVS Forum
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post #2041 of 2070 Old 12-23-2012, 05:18 PM
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Don- I would totally agree with you for a general distibution product to be on 3D BR, but I do think that there is a much greater take up on your side of the pond with BR players. I am also concerned with the greatly exiended production time neccessary to work in MVC format to BD-R when producing a 2 hour wedding. I am sure it is perfectly feasible, but when I sometimes have 2 or 3 weddings to film in one week, I can't see that the production times against financial return would be workable. I am sure that the finished picture quality would be amazing though, so perhaps it is something that I could consider offering later at a premium price.

As a matter of interest and coming back to something Wofgang said in his post, I usually edit in Magix Movie Edit MX Plus and Wolfgang suggested upgrading to MX4 Pro. The reason being to be able to produce BR discs from MVC files. A few minutes ago, I switched the camera to MVC THR mode which I believe is the highest quality setting. I took a 16 second shot in my lounge, loaded Magix and attempted to import the MVC clip. To my surprise, it loaded with no problem and Magix ran it with no problem, providing I switched the display to low res 2d mode. The full res 3d was available, but was very hesitant and jerky. That does lead me to believe that the current version of the Magix version I have will handle the files, which is very encouraging. I will try the AVCHD3D camera mode when I get a chance.

However it is now 1.15 am and I am off to bed.smile.gif

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post #2042 of 2070 Old 12-23-2012, 06:15 PM
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Don,

I know you've had success burning discrete 5.1 audio in PowerDirector. Could you detail your workflow (or post a link to where you've outlined it in the past)? I had so many problems with 5.1 in my parish project that I ended up doing just stereo. It wasn't a problem for that video, but for my next project I would like to be able to do full 5.1 surround if I use PD again.

I did all the duplication for my parish project. I have an 8-station DVD duplicator, and I can do about 5 Blu-ray discs at a time with my computers, so it goes pretty quick. I was hoping the Blu-ray disc would sell better than it has. Ironically, the husband of the parishioner who wrote the script runs a multi-media company. Even they don't have a Blu-ray player. Yikes!

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post #2043 of 2070 Old 12-23-2012, 06:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Gunkel View Post

Don- I would totally agree with you for a general distibution product to be on 3D BR, but I do think that there is a much greater take up on your side of the pond with BR players. I am also concerned with the greatly exiended production time neccessary to work in MVC format to BD-R when producing a 2 hour wedding. I am sure it is perfectly feasible, but when I sometimes have 2 or 3 weddings to film in one week, I can't see that the production times against financial return would be workable. I am sure that the finished picture quality would be amazing though, so perhaps it is something that I could consider offering later at a premium price.
As a matter of interest and coming back to something Wofgang said in his post, I usually edit in Magix Movie Edit MX Plus and Wolfgang suggested upgrading to MX4 Pro. The reason being to be able to produce BR discs from MVC files. A few minutes ago, I switched the camera to MVC THR mode which I believe is the highest quality setting. I took a 16 second shot in my lounge, loaded Magix and attempted to import the MVC clip. To my surprise, it loaded with no problem and Magix ran it with no problem, providing I switched the display to low res 2d mode. The full res 3d was available, but was very hesitant and jerky. That does lead me to believe that the current version of the Magix version I have will handle the files, which is very encouraging. I will try the AVCHD3D camera mode when I get a chance.
However it is now 1.15 am and I am off to bed.smile.gif
Roger

That's encouraging, Roger. The thing I like most about Edius is the smooth playback of my JVC MVC files. Unlike editing 3D in Vegas, which has been sluggish and buggy for me, Edius never feels like it's slowing down the editing process (but I do have a powerful computer system that I put together just for editing MVC 3D). Choppy playback is the killer. If Magix can play the files smoothly, albeit at lower resolution, that's a very good sign. The other drawback is render times, which can be very long.

Now that I have my Panasonic Z10k back, I'll be able to do some serious comparisons between editing AVCHD 3D 24p files in Edius vs Vegas Pro. I'm going to try to get some interesting test footage between Christmas and New Years, maybe at the zoo. Cyclopital had a devil of a time developing a stereo base extender for the Z10k. Apparently, its optical system is quite different from any other 3D camcorder they've worked with, and they had to go back to the drawing board several times. The new Sony TD300 was a breeze in comparison. Anyway, I have a full set of Cyclopital accessories coming for it in the next week or so. smile.gif

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post #2044 of 2070 Old 12-23-2012, 11:13 PM
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Joe- thanks for the update on your Z10k adapters. I've been wondering how your saga is going with that. I still would live to own a Z10k but just can't justify the investment. Every time I think about it, I remind myself I have two twin rigs that does 24p now and a TD10, 3D1 and NEX5n's that do panorama3D. Then I tell myself I want to spend my money on more travel now than more equipment. wink.gif I am really happy with the kit I have for travel and doing any type of 3D from super wide angle, long distance and normal as well as working in extreme crowds.

The work flow I use with very consistent results to make 3D BR with menus and DTS audio is to:
1. Edit all video regardless of my sources, Twin TD10 24p; Twin NEX5n 24p, 60p; Single TD10 59.94i; 3D1 SBS and MPO's on the timeline at 24p in Vegas Pro V11
2. Render a video track at 24p Top Bottom Full to a file with stereo audio track ( used to line up PCM audio for sync)
3. Render a WAV PCM 5.1 audio track as a second file.
4. Launch Power Director PD10
5. Import the 3D video track with stereo audio track and set the video to TOP Bottom FULL Res.
6. Import the PCM wav file to an audio track. (It will show up as a stereo wave form on the timeline but it will be 5.1
7. Line up (sync) the two using the audio tracks.
8. Add the chapter stops as the Vegas chapters are not recognized in PD10.
9. Create the menu design in PD10 using either 2D or 3D menu templates and modify as desired. I've used both the included and downloaded ones with good results, including adding my own graphics. I am not yet comfortable creating my own templates from scratch.
10. Render and burn a 3d BR-R or RW. I always test with an RW and if I like how it plays, I burn the -R. PD10 will save a BR folder structure but not an iso file. To create an iso file of this I have had success using a product you have to buy which is DVDFAB and select the source as the folder where your PD10 work files are stored. It will create a single 3DBR file structure in the iso package that I can play using my OPPO and hard drive, saving me the cost of BD-R blanks and storage cases and space.

Problems I have experienced with the above-
I often am not satisfied with the mix of my 5.1 surround tracks when I do it in my edit room with a small computer style speaker system (5.1) and then listen to it with my HT high end system with 4KW of SW amps and 150w per channel using large JBL professional studio monitors. To get it right I have had to re mix the balance of my audio several times on some projects. Some day I may get a bigger amp and larger surround satellite speakers for my edit room. Gary Reber of Wide Screen Review also suggested I should try some 5.1 headphones that he uses which are very high end. I plan to test these at CES if I can find them.
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post #2045 of 2070 Old 12-23-2012, 11:28 PM
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The new Sony TD300 was a breeze in comparison. Anyway, I have a full set of Cyclopital accessories coming for it in the next week or so. smile.gif

Joe- When did you go XDCAM 3D? That's quite a jump in production kit. You must have won the lottery or landed some big 3D job to cover that camera. smile.gif
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post #2046 of 2070 Old 12-24-2012, 03:13 AM
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Well, I know that Don has some issues with Vegas Pro 12, but here it works very fine. Maybe a difference in the configuration of the PC.

Rendering of MVC to 720 50p, 720 60p and to 1080 24p (what is the best choice) works fine for me. Rendering of the audio to AC3 2.0 but also AC3 5.1 is fine. Both the MVC file and the AC3 2.0/5.1 fils is imported in the DVDA 6, and authored with menus. Similar to Magix Pro X4 we are faced by the limtation that the menus are 2D only - but it is possible to combine a 2D and a s3D version on one Blu-ray disc.

That is my prefered workflow now.

It would be possible to to the same with the professional version of the TD1, since there you have a tool that can split L and R what can be imported and paired in Vegas too.

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post #2047 of 2070 Old 12-24-2012, 07:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Landis View Post

Joe- When did you go XDCAM 3D? That's quite a jump in production kit. You must have won the lottery or landed some big 3D job to cover that camera. smile.gif

I didn't get the new Sony 3D camera. I'd be crazy (OK, crazier biggrin.gif ) to spend that much. As Ken Burgess of Cyclopital3D struggled with the Z10k SBE design, he was able to do adapters for the new Sony in between attempts. We had a sudden death in my family, and then I became involved in the parish project for over two months, so I didn't have to have the Panasonic back. He kept plugging away at it and finished it just last week. It was the single most challenging design he's ever done. Now I have a lot of catching up to do with the Z10k. smile.gif

Thanks for the workflow outline. I'll give that a try with my 5.1 tracks for the parish project. It would be nice to have it for a few people who were most involved in the production. I also had issues with the mix level once I got to PD, but the biggest problem was the inability to maintain discrete tracks.

Wolfgang,

I plan to try DVD Architect instead of PowerDirector for the menu design with a little Panasonic Z10k test project I have in mind. That will be a Sony-only edit - Vegas 12 and DVD-Architect. I created the church history 5.1 audio tracks in Vegas, and there they looked and sounded fine. It was only when I moved to PD that I started to have all the audio issues.

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post #2048 of 2070 Old 12-24-2012, 09:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Joseph Clark View Post

That's encouraging, Roger. The thing I like most about Edius is the smooth playback of my JVC MVC files. Unlike editing 3D in Vegas, which has been sluggish and buggy for me, Edius never feels like it's slowing down the editing process (but I do have a powerful computer system that I put together just for editing MVC 3D). Choppy playback is the killer. If Magix can play the files smoothly, albeit at lower resolution, that's a very good sign. The other drawback is render times, which can be very long.
Now that I have my Panasonic Z10k back, I'll be able to do some serious comparisons between editing AVCHD 3D 24p files in Edius vs Vegas Pro. I'm going to try to get some interesting test footage between Christmas and New Years, maybe at the zoo. Cyclopital had a devil of a time developing a stereo base extender for the Z10k. Apparently, its optical system is quite different from any other 3D camcorder they've worked with, and they had to go back to the drawing board several times. The new Sony TD300 was a breeze in comparison. Anyway, I have a full set of Cyclopital accessories coming for it in the next week or so. smile.gif

Sounds like you are going to have an exciting time ahead, so I'll be following your progress with interest. After Christmas I'll be spending more time experimenting and will post anything that I come up with of general interest.

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post #2049 of 2070 Old 12-24-2012, 12:33 PM
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Joe- I figured you landed some new high profile project. It is a sweet camera though.

Roger- Thanks for joining in the small group here. Looking forward to seeing some of your stuff.

Wolfgang- I'm pretty sure the issue is with the FirePro driver. Hoping to see one of the engineers from SCS at CES to ask them. I was also thinking of sending Michael Bryant or Gary Rebholz an email on it if not at CES.
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post #2050 of 2070 Old 12-24-2012, 01:12 PM
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If you're planning to go to NAB in April, Don, try to get a peek at the Red laser projector. Since you own the Sony 95, I'd appreciate hearing how you think it stacks up in terms of contrast and ghosting. I'm hoping it will be my next projector, but I doubt I'll be able to get away for NAB this coming year, either. They may not have it finalized (no release date yet), but I'm really hungry for information about it.

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post #2051 of 2070 Old 12-24-2012, 04:48 PM
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I wanted to provide an update- such as it is- on my quest to get CyberLink to make Power DVD 12 support 3d video playback of non blue ray disk video clips, produced or otherwise, at their native frame rates as opposed to 24p.
A while back, I decided to pay the $29. so I could talk to a live person on the phone. It's harder to be completely ignored that way. Of course, the people I'm talking to are all in India. But, be that as it may, I just figure on calling them every 2 weeks or so and requesting status updates. They tell me that the case has been elevated to their engineering team. I will take all this with a grain of salt until I get some feedback from them saying that they plan to address the problem. Today, they said that they would put a priority re-elevation request on the ticket and that I should get some kind of response in 48 hours or so. I plan to call them in a couple of days to check. None of this may accomplish anything, but it feels good. I'll keep you posted.

I am fortunate to have left my pro work behind me so, like Joseph, I also view this as a hobby and would prefer to stream produced 3d content from PC to projector without burning to disk where I would have the 24p limitation on 1920 native content.
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post #2052 of 2070 Old 12-28-2012, 12:46 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Take 2 (IE died as I was trying to write this yesterday)...

I've been able to create a 3D Blu-Ray disc with true 5.1-channel DTS sound for the JVC MVC file using PowerDirector 11. Here is the method I used. There are some additional "gotcha's" and notes afterwards.

1) Transfer JVC GS-TD1 3D MVC output to Edius Pro 6.5
2) Import the video into the Edius Pro timeline, edit as needed and then store using the Canopus HQ Fine 3D codec at 1080p/24. For 1/2 an hour, this will create approximatey 100GB.
3) Create the 5.1-channel audio using your favorite DAW.
4) Use Vegas Pro (or another program) to take the 5.1-channel audio and create a 5.1-channel LPCM Wave file. I've used 48-kHz, 24-bit files. I have not yet tried 96-kHz, 24-bit since DTS will down-sample anyway.
5) Open PD11 and start a new project. Load the Canopus video as Video track 1. Load the 5.1-channel Wave file as Audio track 2. Load any title work into Title Track 1. Remeber to set 3D video perspective if you want the titles to be in 3D.
6) Using the tool icon towards the top of the PD11 display, make sure 5.1-channel audio is selected.
7) Go to the Produce tab and select 3D as the type of output along with 1080p/24 at 16mbps. Select H.264 as the type of video and then select 5.1-channel Dolby Digital on the bottom of the display.
8) Produce the video.
9) IMPORTANT --> Close this project (save as needed).
10) Open new PD11 project and go to the Disc Create tab. Import the previously saved (step 8) video/audio file.
11) Load in a 3D menu structure (some are available for download from Cyberlink).
12) Select 3D disc and then select 5.1-channel DTS. Create disc. If more than one video is going to be included (and it should be for menus) , repeat step 10.
13) Create disc. If you get a 3D menu but can't play the video, the menu structure may be incorrect. Try a different menu. This delayed me a few days.

Notes/Comments:
1) The reason for opening a second PD11 project is if you continue to use the first project, your input files (step 5) will be overwritten on the timeline by the files created in step 8.
2) I believe (but have not tested) that step 8 creates a Dolby Digital file in the M2TS file. This Dolby Digital file is then decoded into 5.1-channel wave files and then *re-encoded* into 5.1-channel DTS in step 12. You may get higher quality audio by selecting Dolby Digital for the output file type in step 12. Not sure about this yet but it seems plausible.
3) Many times the create disc step will be unsuccessful. Sometimes it's a matter of simply rerunning the step. Other times the menu structure has to be changed.
4) I created a profile that saved the video at 1080p/24 25mbps in step 8. Unfortunately, step 13 then resampled it back to 1080p/24 16mbps. So, you'll get a high quality final video if you just start with 1080p/24 16mbps.

I've managed to burn a disc with two 3D videos and then 5.1-channel DTS output sounds like what I started with. So, this will work. Maybe not every time, but it will work.
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post #2053 of 2070 Old 12-28-2012, 01:01 PM
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Doesn't the bitrate reduction reduce the video quality unacceptably? It seems awfully low.

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post #2054 of 2070 Old 12-28-2012, 01:19 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Remember it is H.264. It looks roughly equivalent to 25mbps MPEG2. Of course with only small movement, it didn't seem to make that much difference. In exchange, I've gotten nice looking 3D title graphics and 3D menus.

Not sure if everyone would agree that it's a fair exchange but for a wedding, I think it is.
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post #2055 of 2070 Old 12-28-2012, 01:27 PM
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Cool. h.264 can give good results at ridiculously low bitrates. Thanks for posting the workflow.

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post #2056 of 2070 Old 12-28-2012, 09:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joseph Clark View Post

Doesn't the bitrate reduction reduce the video quality unacceptably? It seems awfully low.

Joe- the hit is noticeable on my 110" screen but not on the smaller screen, even the passive half res monitor when compared to the Vegas Pro blue render direct using same 1080 24p. I would not call it unacceptable but rather a trade-off. The hit to the PQ seems only noticeable when my source video is from paired 1080 24p or 1080 60p but hardly noticeable with the TD10 1080 60i original source. The trade off is always BD with menus and higher dynamic range sound of DTS vs. BD with no menus, only chapter stops and dolby 5.1 compressed sound.
I might guess that with the JVC's higher recording bitrate, you are getting better quality, like I get with the paired rig and therefore you will see a noticeable PQ hit too with the JVC when trading off to menus and DTS 5.1 sound.

For the above reason, I have only done a few projects with PD10 menus. These titles are usually of 1 hour or longer and are made of several chapters or parts to my project title. Here chapters direct access has enough importance that justifies a hit to the picture quality.

BTW- I have made a similar judgement on PQ difference between shooting 3D with my twin NEX5n's with much higher quality glass and imagers as opposed to my TD10 with those little lenses. Here the tradeoff is no zoom as there is no way to sync the zoom on the cameras.
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post #2057 of 2070 Old 12-28-2012, 10:43 PM
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I shot a family wedding with the TD1 and created a 720p/60 Blu-ray 3D, with menus, in PD. Everyone was pleased with the quality, and the motion scenes after the wedding looked much better than they would have at 24p. It's always about what works best for any given project. For longer, more ambitious projects, Edius/Vegas (and *maybe* just Vegas if it's Panasonic footage) will likely remain my preferred workflow. I don't see that changing unless PD ups the max bitrate for output to disc. Vegas' best Blu-ray 3D mode maintains very high image quality from my 34mbps JVC footage, and I'll be willing to compromise with compressed audio and 2D menus before I'll give up picture quality.

It's unfortunate that I'm getting the Z10k back when the weather has taken its worst turn here in St. Louis. Oh, well, it's giving me time to install a Buttkicker and new SVS sub into my home theater system. That's going to be fun. biggrin.gif

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post #2058 of 2070 Old 12-29-2012, 02:29 AM
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The bitrate of 16 Mbps is very low. Even the bitrate used in MVC-encoders of Vegas or Pro X4 with the 25 mbps is low, but what we have if we do not use more professional applications like DoStudio for US$20.000. I am happy with Vegas and the MVC encoder, and use the DVDA6 to get some menus. Yes, menus without 3D but that is acceptable for me.

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post #2059 of 2070 Old 12-29-2012, 07:54 PM
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Wolfgang- I have not looked at DVDA6 yet. By your comment, I can assume the menus are 2D graphic over 3D video? Or, just all 2D flat world and then jump to 3D content in the main production? If DVDA6 can add the menus to our 3D productions, I may give it a try on my current long form project. Work flow may be much easier and not suffer the PQ hit that I do see with PD10. I do admit, Power Director 3D graphics in the menu is overrated. smile.gif But until now, it was my only game in town.
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post #2060 of 2070 Old 12-30-2012, 12:09 AM
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The DVDA6 has 2D menus only - but it can jump to s3D content but also to 2D content (so one can generate a Blu ray with both versions of a movie). For s3D you have to prepare the footage with the MVC encoder of Vegas. Beside that, there seems to be no difference between the old DVDA 5.2 and the DVDA 6 - so there was no additional bug correction or futher development. But for what I do that is fine.

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post #2061 of 2070 Old 12-30-2012, 07:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfgang S. View Post

The DVDA6 has 2D menus only - but it can jump to s3D content but also to 2D content (so one can generate a Blu ray with both versions of a movie). For s3D you have to prepare the footage with the MVC encoder of Vegas. Beside that, there seems to be no difference between the old DVDA 6.2 { 5.2 }and the DVDA 6 - so there was no additional bug correction or futher development. But for what I do that is fine.

That's great! I will definitely check this out. The both versions selection is something I worked on for my Bryce Canyon and Valley of Fire BD's and was never happy with it in Power Director. I've authored quite a few DVD's for my clients over the years and am very familiar with the work flow. I had a product called a video FAQ that I sold to businesses and they loved the concept. e.g. A law business would create several DVD FAQ where one actor would ask a question that they are often asked and another lawyer would give an answer. I did many projects like this and DVDA was great for organizing the disk. My clients would buy the DVD's by the thousands and give them out at fairs and to clients.
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post #2062 of 2070 Old 12-31-2012, 03:28 PM
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I just made my weekly call to Cyberlink for an update on my request for Power DVD 12 to be able to play (non blue ray disk) 1920 3d media files at their native frame rate as opposed to only 24p. They claim that they have accepted that there is an issue and are planning to remedy it in an update which will be released soon. I'm skeptical and don't intend to hold my breath since, when I talk to these guys, I often get the feeling that I'm talking to an Indian version of a used car salesman. But, I guess we'll see. It sure would be nice to finally have a media player which can play clips from the TD1 smoothly. Happy New Year indeed- if true!
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post #2063 of 2070 Old 12-31-2012, 04:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Barry C View Post

I just made my weekly call to Cyberlink for an update on my request for Power DVD 12 to be able to play (non blue ray disk) 1920 3d media files at their native frame rate as opposed to only 24p. They claim that they have accepted that there is an issue and are planning to remedy it in an update which will be released soon. I'm skeptical and don't intend to hold my breath since, when I talk to these guys, I often get the feeling that I'm talking to an Indian version of a used car salesman. But, I guess we'll see. It sure would be nice to finally have a media player which can play clips from the TD1 smoothly. Happy New Year indeed- if true!
Thanks for staying with this, Barry.

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post #2064 of 2070 Old 01-28-2013, 03:02 AM
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So I sent my camcorder in to JVC for repair and they sent it back and it still had the focus issue. This happened twice then they finally sent me a new one. It worked great, until I used it a bit now it also is exhibiting the same soft right focus issue. I'm starting to think this can't be solved. Do you guys mostly not care or notice this? Have you compared the images side by side like the MPO files using Stereo Jpeg maker? I suspect this issue is more prevalent than one would tell by it's lack of major vocality here on the forum.
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post #2065 of 2070 Old 03-05-2013, 01:03 PM
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Wow. Guess no one else is getting this issue? Or it doesn't bother them? I've been using it a lot for 2D and it's a fantastic camcorder for 2D as well, especially in low light performance. But in good light that 1.2 f stop gets some nice DOF action!! If anyone is interested I found the service manual online here:
http://www.brelect.fr/ve/GSTD1BEU.pdf
I don't know what that website is, I found it via Google.
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post #2066 of 2070 Old 07-11-2013, 10:28 AM
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I'm a new user on TD1. I wonder if I shoot in 3D video mode, can I play the video smooth in 2D on normal LCD TV and computer monitor? Thanks!
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post #2067 of 2070 Old 07-11-2013, 10:31 AM
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Normally, 2D equipment sees JVC TD1 video as 1080i 2D. It shouldn't be a problem.

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post #2068 of 2070 Old 03-03-2014, 10:34 AM
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Lets suppose we edited JVC's 1080i frame packed videos without compromising from quality, and created a AVCHD 3D (avchd 2.0 standart) FRAME PACKED 1080 60i disc and our bluray player supports the new avchd stantard! Then what about TVs and Projectors? As far as I know, most active shutter 3d TVs and latest 3D projectos including Benq's and Optoma's (consumer models) DOES NOT SUPPORT THIS RESOLUTION? Am I wrong? What kind of displays support AVCHD 3D 1080 frame packed 60fps interlaced videos? Thanks 

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post #2069 of 2070 Old 09-08-2014, 05:50 PM
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Well it's been a long time coming, but it appears that Power DVD 14 is playing 3d JVCTD1 mp4 clips at their native frame rate. Maybe, it's frame interpolation, I don't know, but the 60i clips are playing smooth as butter!! Very good thing for those of us who don't shoot at 24p
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post #2070 of 2070 Old 09-11-2014, 09:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barry C View Post
Well it's been a long time coming, but it appears that Power DVD 14 is playing 3d JVCTD1 mp4 clips at their native frame rate. Maybe, it's frame interpolation, I don't know, but the 60i clips are playing smooth as butter!! Very good thing for those of us who don't shoot at 24p
CORRECTION & MEA CULPA:
When I made the above assertion that Power DVD14 was playing 1920/1080 3D clips at their native frame rate, as opposssed to 24fps, I failed to take into account that my new HTPC Nvidia control panal setting was at 3D 720p and was NOT set at 1080. Yes, the 1080i clips played smoothly but the HTPC, through my Epson 5020 projector, was playing them at 720p. Resetting the control panal 3D setting to 1080 showed the same choppy playback as on older versions of PDVD. Oh well
I had surgery last week and just stopped taking the pain meds and quickly realized my error. Since we all know that there is never any misleading, or incorrect info on the internet, I certainly didn't want to go down in history as the 1st person to ever post any!

Last edited by Barry C; 09-14-2014 at 08:48 AM.
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