JVC GS-TD1 3D-Capable Camcorder - Page 7 - AVS Forum
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Old 03-03-2011, 02:31 PM
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Hey guys, sounds like it's already out in the USA. I feel I let you guys down I promised a review for this JVC cam long ago and never got the time to make one. I am very sorry for everyone, I know you were waiting.
I been very busy with my job lately, and when I get home I'm on my Sony PC editing the 3D videos for my movie coming out soon.
I was learning how to use Vegas Pro 10, making 3D intros and using transitions and so forth. I got the hang of it and now working on adding a killer soundtrack to the video. Once that's complete I just gotta render it and it shall be done!
I let my 3D obsession get in the way of making time for a review, so once again very sorry guys.

However, I feel it has been worth it. The JVC cam is amazing and takes great 3D video, though I filmed in the AVCHD format the picture is breath taking and the 3D blows me away.
I can honestly say to anyone here, if you want a 3D video cam.. GO JVC you will be happy.

3D items I own:

Sony 46" LX900 active 3D set

Sony HMZ-T3 (Cushion pads and light blocker mod)

LG LW6500 passive 3D set

PS3 & PS4

Sony BDP-S570 BD3D player

JVC-GS-TD1 (with Cyclopital base extender)

Fujifilm W3

Sony Alpha 55 (for 3D panoramic photos)

Quadcopter + Zenmuse and GoPro Hero 3 (Filming...

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Old 03-03-2011, 02:34 PM
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By the way Frank, the videos are stored on the cameras 64gb internal flash drive. Connect it to the PC and click on UPLOAD on the camera and the videos upload to JVC's Media Browser. You can also just click on the folder and drag and drop the videos where you want them.
I will also test out an MVC file later today and see if it crashes my Vegas.

3D items I own:

Sony 46" LX900 active 3D set

Sony HMZ-T3 (Cushion pads and light blocker mod)

LG LW6500 passive 3D set

PS3 & PS4

Sony BDP-S570 BD3D player

JVC-GS-TD1 (with Cyclopital base extender)

Fujifilm W3

Sony Alpha 55 (for 3D panoramic photos)

Quadcopter + Zenmuse and GoPro Hero 3 (Filming...

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Old 03-03-2011, 03:53 PM
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There are programs out there that can extract full left/right videos from 3-D blurays. Can't those same programs be used on the JVC MVC files?
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Old 03-03-2011, 04:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bravia3D View Post

By the way Frank, the videos are stored on the cameras 64gb internal flash drive. Connect it to the PC and click on UPLOAD on the camera and the videos upload to JVC's Media Browser. You can also just click on the folder and drag and drop the videos where you want them.
I will also test out an MVC file later today and see if it crashes my Vegas.

I'm aware of that but I find the JVC software totally useless for what I do.
The only software tool I would like from JVC would be one to extract left and right full HD files from the MVC file.

Did IQ's suddenly drop sharply while I was away?
I enjoy 3D in spite of HDMI 1.4!
Full screen only 3D doesn't cut it!
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Old 03-03-2011, 04:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GregK View Post

There are programs out there that can extract full left/right videos from 3-D blurays. Can't those same programs be used on the JVC MVC files?

I have never seen any of these programs but I suppose they exist over at the site mentioned previously.

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I enjoy 3D in spite of HDMI 1.4!
Full screen only 3D doesn't cut it!
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Old 03-03-2011, 04:15 PM
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I got mine delivered today and I think the output is terrible. If all we can use for editing is the squished interlaced versions, then this is non-starter for any real purpose. The interlacing alone is almost a deal-breaker. But 2D or 3D anaglyph requires doubling the size of the clips, and it looks dreadful.

I am sad that both this and seemingly the Sony are going to have the same idiotic problem. Why would someone spend the time to make these and then not allow full frame 1920x1080p output for each clip? It's ridiculous.

Unless anyone has helpful hints on how to best de-interlace the footage (without creating artifacts in 3D) or the best way to extract the full frames, I am returning mine ASAP.

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Old 03-03-2011, 04:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jraaronson View Post

I got mine delivered today and I think the output is terrible. If all we can use for editing is the squished interlaced versions, then this is non-starter for any real purpose. The interlacing alone is almost a deal-breaker. But 2D or 3D anaglyph requires doubling the size of the clips, and it looks dreadful.

I am sad that both this and seemingly the Sony are going to have the same idiotic problem. Why would someone spend the time to make these and then not allow full frame 1920x1080p output for each clip? It's ridiculous.

Unless anyone has helpful hints on how to best de-interlace the footage (without creating artifacts in 3D) or the best way to extract the full frames, I am returning mine ASAP.


I've been shooting interlaced for a long time in 3D and the only problem I have had is when making 3D corrections using the Cineform Codec.
Deinterlacing is a piece of cake using the Adobe media encoder CS5.

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I enjoy 3D in spite of HDMI 1.4!
Full screen only 3D doesn't cut it!
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Old 03-03-2011, 04:27 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank View Post

Vegas crashes while loading the file.

This version of Vegas (10) seems to have quite a record of crashing.

Are you using 32-bit or 64-bit?
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Old 03-03-2011, 04:31 PM
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Frank, thanks for your reply. I'm using FCP, and I *think* using Compressor is the way to de-interlace stuff. It's higher quality than doing it within FCP. I've never dealt with interlaced footage, so I am going only off what I have googled.

But de-interlacing everything takes time. I bought this camera to make my workflow go quicker, not slower. If now I need to de-interlace all my footage before editing, and the resolution is STILL half of what I am used to because of the squished frame, I don't think it is worth the effort. I'd rather continue with my current two-camera setup because the quality is SO much better.

Again, unless I am missing something obvious here.
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Old 03-03-2011, 04:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jraaronson View Post

Frank, thanks for your reply. I'm using FCP, and I *think* using Compressor is the way to de-interlace stuff. It's higher quality than doing it within FCP. I've never dealt with interlaced footage, so I am going only off what I have googled.

But de-interlacing everything takes time. I bought this camera to make my workflow go quicker, not slower. If now I need to de-interlace all my footage before editing, and the resolution is STILL half of what I am used to because of the squished frame, I don't think it is worth the effort. I'd rather continue with my current two-camera setup because the quality is SO much better.

Again, unless I am missing something obvious here.

Nope: I don't think you're missing anything..
I prefer my two camera setup as well but for portability, this rocks.

Did IQ's suddenly drop sharply while I was away?
I enjoy 3D in spite of HDMI 1.4!
Full screen only 3D doesn't cut it!
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Old 03-03-2011, 04:36 PM
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do you think a matrox mini would be able to read the hdmi properly? My guess would be that it would never expect such a wide frame, so the answer is no.
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Old 03-03-2011, 04:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jraaronson View Post

do you think a matrox mini would be able to read the hdmi properly? My guess would be that it would never expect such a wide frame, so the answer is no.

Almost certainly NO.

Did IQ's suddenly drop sharply while I was away?
I enjoy 3D in spite of HDMI 1.4!
Full screen only 3D doesn't cut it!
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Old 03-03-2011, 05:00 PM
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de-interlacing (even using FCP's built in filter) goes a long way to making it better, but the resolution is still so low. I can't imagine cutting between this footage and our other side-by-side rigs.
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Old 03-03-2011, 05:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jraaronson View Post

de-interlacing (even using FCP's built in filter) goes a long way to making it better, but the resolution is still so low. I can't imagine cutting between this footage and our other side-by-side rigs.

You could always cut the rez of everything else in half.

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I enjoy 3D in spite of HDMI 1.4!
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Old 03-03-2011, 05:08 PM
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I am sure I won't be able to help myself and I'll have to look for a solution on doom9.

Did IQ's suddenly drop sharply while I was away?
I enjoy 3D in spite of HDMI 1.4!
Full screen only 3D doesn't cut it!
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Old 03-03-2011, 05:14 PM
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Quote:
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I have never seen any of these programs but I suppose they exist over at the site mentioned previously.

I use one with my 3-D Blurays to make 3-D files that in turn can be played out from my PC to my HD66 DLP 3D PJ, which is not HDMI 1.4 compliant. Full 1080p output options can be separate L/R files, or as full SbS files. (3840x1080 pairs). I've not mentioned the program name, as these programs can obviously be used for "other" purposes, and I don't want to disrespect forum rules.

If someone can upload an MVC 3-D clip, I can give it a try.
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Old 03-03-2011, 05:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GregK View Post

I use one with my 3-D Blurays to make 3-D files that in turn can be played out from my PC to my HD66 DLP 3D PJ, which is not HDMI 1.4 compliant. Full 1080p output options can be separate L/R files, or as full SbS files. (3840x1080 pairs). I've not mentioned the program name, as these programs can obviously be used for "other" purposes, and I don't want to disrespect forum rules.

If someone can upload an MVC 3-D clip, I can give it a try.

Sounds like an offer I can't refuse. I'll give it a go.

Did IQ's suddenly drop sharply while I was away?
I enjoy 3D in spite of HDMI 1.4!
Full screen only 3D doesn't cut it!
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Old 03-03-2011, 05:34 PM
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The content still needs to make its way into the computer, though, right? I don't see how that is possible at the moment with this camera. Oh, I guess the point is that the mp4 file that I can find has the 3D data in it, but it needs to be extracted?
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Old 03-03-2011, 05:51 PM
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Originally Posted by jraaronson View Post

The content still needs to make its way into the computer, though, right? I don't see how that is possible at the moment with this camera. Oh, I guess the point is that the mp4 file that I can find has the 3D data in it, but it needs to be extracted?

The MP4 file needs to be converted into two files representing the left and right views.
I am just about finished uploading a sample and will have the link shortly.

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I enjoy 3D in spite of HDMI 1.4!
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Old 03-03-2011, 06:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GregK View Post

I use one with my 3-D Blurays to make 3-D files that in turn can be played out from my PC to my HD66 DLP 3D PJ, which is not HDMI 1.4 compliant. Full 1080p output options can be separate L/R files, or as full SbS files. (3840x1080 pairs). I've not mentioned the program name, as these programs can obviously be used for "other" purposes, and I don't want to disrespect forum rules.

If someone can upload an MVC 3-D clip, I can give it a try.

Here it is: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7350380/PIC_0003.MP4
Thanks for trying.

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Old 03-03-2011, 09:58 PM
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Thanks for the sample, Frank.

One of the programs I tried looks only at ISO images or TS folders. With 3D Blurays, the MVC encoded extra "delta" image (typically the right eye) is stored in what is called a "SIFF" folder. With the MP4 sample, there is no such folder. Only a single video clip . I'm sure there's a program out there that can strip a video clip into it's raw elements (video, audio, metadata misc .. and hopefully SIFF) ..Thoughts anyone..?

Also tried another program, which doesn't deal with any copy protection called "SIFFsucka" (no joke!) but it requires access to the SIFF files.
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Old 03-03-2011, 11:19 PM
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I think i might have a way to do it. I'm still in my train. I will try as soon as i reach my office and will let you now (i did it with m2ts files from demo bluray 3d some time ago)

edit: didn't work :-(
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Old 03-04-2011, 06:22 AM
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After having this camera for less then a day I have already concluded that it's not good enough for my purposes. I'll be lending it out to family and friends and instruct them to only shoot in AVCHD mode until there is a way to extract usable video from the MVC format.

Did IQ's suddenly drop sharply while I was away?
I enjoy 3D in spite of HDMI 1.4!
Full screen only 3D doesn't cut it!
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Old 03-04-2011, 07:00 AM
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After having this camera for less then a day I have already concluded that it's not good enough for my purposes. I'll be lending it out to family and friends and instruct them to only shoot in AVCHD mode until there is a way to extract usable video from the MVC format.



What is your purposes.I am a rookie here and got lost in all this file talk.In lamemans term what does this mean for the average joe blow that buys either of these cams and just shoots with no edit and watches via 3d tv .Or just needs to burn what they recorded on either a avchd or blu ray disk to free up space for future movie making.Can you explain to us idiots that dont understand extract etc.Or does none of this stuff you guys are talking about mean nothing to us rookies that just point shoot and watch.
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Old 03-04-2011, 07:39 AM
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Originally Posted by icerat4 View Post

What is your purposes.I am a rookie here and got lost in all this file talk.In lamemans term what does this mean for the average joe blow that buys either of these cams and just shoots with no edit and watches via 3d tv .Or just needs to burn what they recorded on either a avchd or blu ray disk to free up space for future movie making.Can you explain to us idiots that dont understand extract etc.Or does none of this stuff you guys are talking about mean nothing to us rookies that just point shoot and watch.

Long ago I used to just shoot and watch but times change and so do expectations.
I am just about to the point of giving up trying to explain the flaws in the current 3DTV standards.

This camera is a beautifully designed and engineered device which obviously was designed with the casual user in mind. For your purposes, I am sure you would be more then satisfied.

Did IQ's suddenly drop sharply while I was away?
I enjoy 3D in spite of HDMI 1.4!
Full screen only 3D doesn't cut it!
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Old 03-04-2011, 08:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Frank View Post

Long ago I used to just shoot and watch but times change and so do expectations.
I am just about to the point of giving up trying to explain the flaws in the current 3DTV standards.

This camera is a beautifully designed and engineered device which obviously was designed with the casual user in mind. For your purposes, I am sure you would be more then satisfied.



Thanks frank.Yea newbie just looking for a toy to pass time.No editing no na da just shoot and watch.I hope the sony works out nice as all my stuff is sony.I just got a very high end vaio even has soild state drive.So all my stuff will hand shake nicely.Just wondering how its going to be able to transfer the stuff i record to dvd rw or a blu ray disk.all the avchd stuff i have already made disk with .I am fine with how it looks .And i got a graet deal on the new sony cam 999.99.
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Old 03-04-2011, 09:00 AM
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I called JVC and am seemingly the first person to ever call in about the camera. I told them I sure wouldn't be the last.

He is getting back to me, but I think we all know what he'll say.

I am very sad that this camera (and most likely the Sony) fails in the final step: exporting hi-quality images.

I will be returning it on monday. Is anyone from JVC reading this? Why would you make such bad decisions, after going through the trouble of making a 3D camera. You have pretty much rendered it useless to anyone who actually wants a 3D camera for anything but the most mundane of purposes. And your price point is too high for those people, most likely. So, you've created a camera and a price point for people who actually have a purpose for a 3D camera beyond vacation video, and then cut its legs off by not allowing us to access the full HD versions of the left and right clips.

I am so disappointed in JVC.
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Old 03-04-2011, 09:09 AM
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Originally Posted by jraaronson View Post

I called JVC and am seemingly the first person to ever call in about the camera. I told them I sure wouldn't be the last.

He is getting back to me, but I think we all know what he'll say.

I am very sad that this camera (and most likely the Sony) fails in the final step: exporting hi-quality images.

I will be returning it on monday. Is anyone from JVC reading this? Why would you make such bad decisions, after going through the trouble of making a 3D camera. You have pretty much rendered it useless to anyone who actually wants a 3D camera for anything but the most mundane of purposes. And your price point is too high for those people, most likely. So, you've created a camera and a price point for people who actually have a purpose for a 3D camera beyond vacation video, and then cut its legs off by not allowing us to access the full HD versions of the left and right clips.

I am so disappointed in JVC.






exporting.I thought you have to import the taped video to your burner or computer.why would you want to export stuff you filmed.Sorry if its a newbie question i am learning.
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Old 03-04-2011, 09:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank View Post

Long ago I used to just shoot and watch but times change and so do expectations.
I am just about to the point of giving up trying to explain the flaws in the current 3DTV standards.

This camera is a beautifully designed and engineered device which obviously was designed with the casual user in mind. For your purposes, I am sure you would be more then satisfied.

Could tell us how it compares to the Fuji W3 regarding Video and Still ?
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Old 03-04-2011, 09:58 AM
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Could tell us how it compares to the Fuji W3 regarding Video and Still ?

The video quality of the JVC is at least 50 times better than the W3.
The still quality of the Fuji is better.

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I enjoy 3D in spite of HDMI 1.4!
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