JVC GS-TD1 3D-Capable Camcorder - AVS Forum
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Old 01-07-2011, 03:01 PM - Thread Starter
 
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JVC has announced the GS-TD1 3D Camcorder. The 3D Camcorder will be released to the U.S. in March 2011 (likely available from dealers in April 2011).

The original press release on the JVC GS-TD1 is at:
http://newsroom.jvc.com/2011/01/jvc-...%80%99s-first/

JVC information on the GS-TD1 can be found at:
http://camcorder.jvc.com/product.jsp...Id=119&page=10

More detailed specs are at:
http://camcorder.jvc.com/product.jsp...Id=171&page=14
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Old 01-10-2011, 09:12 AM - Thread Starter
 
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A story about the pre-release MSRP price drop for the JVC GS-TD1 can be found at:

http://www.gadgetnewsfeed.com/jvc-gs...n-gadget-news/
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Old 01-10-2011, 11:44 AM
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I'm currently researching an article about shooting, editing and finishing your own 3D movies on low budget so this is a very interesting piece of kit. Questions/comments about some bits in JVC's press release:

Quote:


The newly developed “LR Independent Format” makes the GS-TD1 the world’s first consumer-oriented camcorder capable of 3D shooting in Full HD. JVC’s new camcorder offers other shooting modes as well, including the widely used “Side-by-Side Format” for AVCHD (3D) and conventional AVCHD (2D) shooting.

I suppose this LR Independent Format means the camcorder is not losing vertical or horizontal resolution because of how the frames are stored. No mention of codec or bitrate for their proprietary format, however.

Quote:


The GS-TD1 also features round iris diaphragms that enable beautiful bokeh effect (background blurring) shooting of video and stills alike.

I hope it can do deep DOF too as I believe shallow DOF has no place in 3D movies.

Quote:


Automatic Parallax Adjustment to optimize the 3D-video comfort zone

This is very difficult to achieve so it'll be interesting to see JVC's solution.

Please, feel free to call me by my first name, Petri.
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Old 01-10-2011, 05:08 PM
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Hello Everyone,

Here are a few specs that may answer some of your questions. Keep in mind this is all very new, and the factory has only disclosed limited preliminary information at this point.

There are two 3D recording modes:

MVC (1920 X 1080 3D Frame Packing for interlace): Recording Format: MP4, Video Compression: H264 MVC, Audio Compression: AAC, File Extension: .mp4

AVCHD (1920 X 1080 Side By Side 3D which is 960 x 1080 Side By Side 3D): Recording Format: AVCHD, Video Compression: H264/AVC, Audio Compression: AC3, File Extension: .m2ts

You can also record in regular AVCHD 2D.

There will also be software included that allows you to convert from Frame Packing Full HD 3D to AVCHD Side by Side 3D or 2D.

I won't be posting any more this week, but will try and answer more questions next week.

Chris
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Old 01-10-2011, 05:37 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by cdeutsch View Post

Hello Everyone,
...

There are two 3D recording modes:

MVC (1920 X 1080 3D Frame Packing for interlace): Recording Format: MP4, Video Compression: H264 MVC, Audio Compression: AAC, File Extension: .mp4

AVCHD (1920 X 1080 Side By Side 3D which is 960 x 1080 Side By Side 3D): Recording Format: AVCHD, Video Compression: H264/AVC, Audio Compression: AC3, File Extension: .m2ts

...

Chris

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Old 01-10-2011, 05:55 PM
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The main thing I'd like to know is how we can edit the MVC video files and render them that way.

Did IQ's suddenly drop sharply while I was away?
I enjoy 3D in spite of HDMI 1.4!
Full screen only 3D doesn't cut it!
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Old 01-10-2011, 07:24 PM - Thread Starter
 
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The main thing I'd like to know is how we can edit the MVC video files and render them that way.

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Old 01-10-2011, 09:31 PM
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Can the JVC take 3-D stills?

Or shoot (in 3D) @ 1080p / 24fps?
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Old 01-11-2011, 02:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GregK View Post

Can the JVC take 3-D stills?

Or shoot (in 3D) @ 1080p / 24fps?


Yes and No. (The JVC, unlike the Panasonic and Sony, does allow for 3D stills.) The 3D is in 1080i. Don't know if the 24fps is offered, or if so is limited to 2D shooting.
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Old 01-11-2011, 11:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cdeutsch View Post

Hello Everyone,

Here are a few specs that may answer some of your questions. Keep in mind this is all very new, and the factory has only disclosed limited preliminary information at this point.

There are two 3D recording modes:

MVC (1920 X 1080 3D Frame Packing for interlace): Recording Format: MP4, Video Compression: H264 MVC, Audio Compression: AAC, File Extension: .mp4

AVCHD (1920 X 1080 Side By Side 3D which is 960 x 1080 Side By Side 3D): Recording Format: AVCHD, Video Compression: H264/AVC, Audio Compression: AC3, File Extension: .m2ts

You can also record in regular AVCHD 2D.

There will also be software included that allows you to convert from Frame Packing Full HD 3D to AVCHD Side by Side 3D or 2D.

I won't be posting any more this week, but will try and answer more questions next week.

Chris

Greetings Chris. Thanks for posting the specs.

1. Which of the two recording formats, MVC and side-by-side, provides higher quality?

2. Does it support playback of 3D video? If so, what's the output format used? Or does it offer a choice between Frame Packing and side-by-side?

3. Does the software to convert MVC to side-by-side work on 3D blu-ray disc as well?

Many thanks and best regards.
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Old 01-12-2011, 12:35 PM
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Old 01-12-2011, 02:21 PM
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Heres what i dont understand.JVC SAYS its the only true hd 3d cam.Sony has a hd 3d cam too.Why make that statement.From what ive seen and have heard on .Both the two full hd 3d top dog camcorders.Is that one guy said the jvc has a better lens for low light .And something about noise levels.I guess this will have to be a wait and see for your self deal .As who is the real deal.Other wise it seems that both of these camcorders will do a fine job.Just which one is better is my question
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Old 01-12-2011, 04:29 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by icerat4 View Post

Heres what i dont understand.JVC SAYS its the only true hd 3d cam.Sony has a hd 3d cam too.Why make that statement...

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Old 01-16-2011, 09:48 AM
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Originally Posted by NorthTV View Post

Yes and No. (The JVC, unlike the Panasonic and Sony, does allow for 3D stills.) The 3D is in 1080i. Don't know if the 24fps is offered, or if so is limited to 2D shooting.

Thanks for the info.

While it's good to hear the JVC allows for 3D stills, I am still a little disappointed the initial reports indicate there are no 3D 1080p @24fps shooting options for the Sony or the JVC. That is the 3D 1080p Bluray standard, and anything else would need to be converted.
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Old 01-16-2011, 10:57 AM
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Originally Posted by alk3997 View Post

Chris, thanks for the information and you must be tired after CES. I can understand taking a week away.

When you return can you let me know if the AC3 output for AVCHD is 2.0 or 5.1-channel?

The AC3 output is 2 channel. As a side note, it uses our unique Biphonic recording process. The spacing of the microphones, and some additional DSP processing, allow for a very wide and realistic sound field. We demonstrated this at CES.

Chris
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Old 01-16-2011, 11:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank View Post

The main thing I'd like to know is how we can edit the MVC video files and render them that way.

I want to preface this answer by saying this is new technology, and we are learning new things about it almost daily. Also, as a new technology, there will always be some limitations. Hopefully, over time, many of those limitations will go away.

We will provide software that allows you to back up the MVC (3D Full HD) data, play it back on your PC and convert it to 3D side by side AVCHD.

So basically you can watch the original 3D Full HD footage, or you can convert it to 3D side-by-side footage if you want to do more. The software we provide will let you edit the side by side footage (cutting, combining, effects, etc.), as well as create BD or DVD discs.

Chris
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Old 01-16-2011, 11:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alk3997 View Post

Assuming that Sony Vegas Pro 10 can download from the JVC (I suspect it can but don't have that confirmed) then you can edit MVC files with Vegas 10. However, since DVD Architect can't write in MVC, there is no way to get the resultant file out of your PC and onto a BD. Hopefully future DVD Architect versions will support (and maybe they'll also change the name to BD Architect).

I suspect some freeware program might come along since the editing workflow is available, at least.

I would be very surprised if this worked.

Chris
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Old 01-16-2011, 11:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GregK View Post

Can the JVC take 3-D stills?

Or shoot (in 3D) @ 1080p / 24fps?

Yes on 3D Stills. No on 1080p/24 fps.

Chris
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Old 01-16-2011, 11:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mariner888 View Post

Greetings Chris. Thanks for posting the specs.

1. Which of the two recording formats, MVC and side-by-side, provides higher quality?

2. Does it support playback of 3D video? If so, what's the output format used? Or does it offer a choice between Frame Packing and side-by-side?

3. Does the software to convert MVC to side-by-side work on 3D blu-ray disc as well?

Many thanks and best regards.

Same disclaimer as my earlier post. We are learning new things almost daily. Here is the best info so far:

1. MVC is higher quality as it is 1920 x 1080i for each eye. Side by side is 960 x 1080i for each eye.

2. You can output 3D frame packing at 1080i or 720p, or you can output 3D side by side 1080i or you can down convert to 2D 1080i.

3. The software to convert MVC to side by side allows that content to be burned to a disc that will playback in 3D in your Blu-ray player. Not sure if it's an actual BD disc or an AVCHD DVD-R.

Chris
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Old 01-16-2011, 11:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by icerat4 View Post

Heres what i dont understand.JVC SAYS its the only true hd 3d cam.Sony has a hd 3d cam too.Why make that statement.From what ive seen and have heard on .Both the two full hd 3d top dog camcorders.Is that one guy said the jvc has a better lens for low light .And something about noise levels.I guess this will have to be a wait and see for your self deal .As who is the real deal.Other wise it seems that both of these camcorders will do a fine job.Just which one is better is my question

I don't think we are saying we are the only true HD 3D cam. At CES, both JVC and Sony announced new Full HD 3D consumer cams. Up to now, consumer 3D cams had only recorded side by side (1/2 resolution). We can record Full HD. Ours is coming out in March, making it the world's first. I believe the Sony comes out in April.

Chris
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Old 01-16-2011, 03:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cdeutsch View Post

Yes on 3D Stills. No on 1080p/24 fps.

Thanks for the info, Chris. Is there a reason why 1080p is not supported for 3-D?

Also, what is the 3-D interaxial (separation) for the JVC 3D camcorder?

Thanks again.
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Old 01-16-2011, 05:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GregK View Post

Thanks for the info, Chris. Is there a reason why 1080p is not supported for 3-D?

Also, what is the 3-D interaxial (separation) for the JVC 3D camcorder?

Thanks again.

Hi Greg,

At this point, all of our better JVC camcorders still record in 1080i. JVC only offers 1080p recording at lower frame rates on some of our entry level Picsio models.

I can only guess that to offer 1080p for each eye would require additional processing or additional cost that right now is not practical.

I will check into the 3-D separation for you. I can tell you that there is a choice of auto parallax adjustment or manual parallax adjustment.

Chris
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Old 01-17-2011, 06:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cdeutsch View Post

Hi Greg,

At this point, all of our better JVC camcorders still record in 1080i. JVC only offers 1080p recording at lower frame rates on some of our entry level Picsio models.

I can only guess that to offer 1080p for each eye would require additional processing or additional cost that right now is not practical.

I will check into the 3-D separation for you. I can tell you that there is a choice of auto parallax adjustment or manual parallax adjustment.


Thanks again, Chris. Getting the separation specs would be great.



One final thought/suggestion on the 3-D resolution, with both Sony and JVC only offering 1080i as a 3-D shooting option.

If 1080p (full 1080p per eye) 3-D is too much for the JVC camcorder, could the camera (parhaps later on as a firmware update) offer 720p/24fps as another 3-D shooting option?

If 720p/24fps was offered as a recording option, I could easily scale it to 1080p/24p in editing, or show on a 1080p display without any interlace or motion artifacts.

Something to think about. Or at a minimum, pass along to the IT guys...
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Old 01-18-2011, 08:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cdeutsch View Post

I want to preface this answer by saying this is new technology, and we are learning new things about it almost daily. Also, as a new technology, there will always be some limitations. Hopefully, over time, many of those limitations will go away.

We will provide software that allows you to back up the MVC (3D Full HD) data, play it back on your PC and convert it to 3D side by side AVCHD.

So basically you can watch the original 3D Full HD footage, or you can convert it to 3D side-by-side footage if you want to do more. The software we provide will let you edit the side by side footage (cutting, combining, effects, etc.), as well as create BD or DVD discs.

Chris

Will you reveal the secret of how to format an AVCHD side by side so that it switches the TV into 3D mode automatically?

Did IQ's suddenly drop sharply while I was away?
I enjoy 3D in spite of HDMI 1.4!
Full screen only 3D doesn't cut it!
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Old 01-18-2011, 09:36 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Old 01-18-2011, 10:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cdeutsch View Post

Same disclaimer as my earlier post. We are learning new things almost daily. Here is the best info so far:

1. MVC is higher quality as it is 1920 x 1080i for each eye. Side by side is 960 x 1080i for each eye.

2. You can output 3D frame packing at 1080i or 720p, or you can output 3D side by side 1080i or you can down convert to 2D 1080i.

3. The software to convert MVC to side by side allows that content to be burned to a disc that will playback in 3D in your Blu-ray player. Not sure if it's an actual BD disc or an AVCHD DVD-R.

Chris

Greetings Chris. Thanks for the reply.

1. That's true. Half SBS should be avoided.

2. According to Table 8-15 of the HDMI 1.4 spec, the only 1080/60i 3D format support by TV is Hafl SBS. 1080/60i Frame Packing format is not supported. Does this mean that higher quality MVC streams will be output in Half SBS format resulting in loss of quality?

3. AFIK, current generation 3D Blu-ray players do not handle SBS format properly. Won't it be better to use the MVC streams for burning to disc? Also can the software be used to convert MVC streams found on non JVC 3DBD discs into SBS?

Best regards.
LL
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Old 01-18-2011, 05:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank View Post

Will you reveal the secret of how to format an AVCHD side by side so that it switches the TV into 3D mode automatically?

Hi Frank,

You'll need to switch it. The TV can't tell the difference between that and a split screen broadcast.

Chris
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Old 01-18-2011, 05:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mariner888 View Post

Greetings Chris. Thanks for the reply.

1. That's true. Half SBS should be avoided.

2. According to Table 8-15 of the HDMI 1.4 spec, the only 1080/60i 3D format support by TV is Hafl SBS. 1080/60i Frame Packing format is not supported. Does this mean that higher quality MVC streams will be output in Half SBS format resulting in loss of quality?

3. AFIK, current generation 3D Blu-ray players do not handle SBS format properly. Won't it be better to use the MVC streams for burning to disc? Also can the software be used to convert MVC streams found on non JVC 3DBD discs into SBS?

Best regards.

The way I understand it, our factory says Frame Packing for Interlace is an option with HDMI v1.4a. With this method, you can output the original MVC streams with no loss in quality. We tried it on a wide variety of TV's at CES, including current production model 3D LCD, 3D Plasma, and 3D Front Projection, and it worked fine with all of them. In particular, the 3D LCD worked fine, even though it was not even HDMI v1.4. So, I believe we will have pretty good compatibility.

For burning to disc, the best initial solution will be to convert it to 3D AVCHD Side by Side content. Yes, this does create a loss of quality, but it will play back in almost any 3D compatible Blu-ray. I believe that as time progresses, other archiving options will become available.

Chris
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Old 01-18-2011, 05:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cdeutsch View Post

Hi Frank,

You'll need to switch it. The TV can't tell the difference between that and a split screen broadcast.

Chris

AVCHD sbs videos produced by the Panasonic HDC-SDT750 are detected automatically by the 3DTV and switch to 3D mode, even when played from an SD card. I know, I've tried it.

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I enjoy 3D in spite of HDMI 1.4!
Full screen only 3D doesn't cut it!
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Old 01-18-2011, 09:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cdeutsch View Post

The way I understand it, our factory says Frame Packing for Interlace is an option with HDMI v1.4a. With this method, you can output the original MVC streams with no loss in quality. We tried it on a wide variety of TV's at CES, including current production model 3D LCD, 3D Plasma, and 3D Front Projection, and it worked fine with all of them. In particular, the 3D LCD worked fine, even though it was not even HDMI v1.4. So, I believe we will have pretty good compatibility.

Chris

Thanks for the reply, Chris.

Just to make sure I have not misunderstood, many current model 3D TVs( including the JVC X3,7,9 FP, I would presume) support 1080/60i Fame Packing format output by the JVC GS-TD1, even though this format is not among the 5 mandatory 3D TV formats listed in section 8.3.2. This is quite a welcome piece of information.
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