JVC 3D Video Camera GS-TD1 short Test - Page 2 - AVS Forum
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post #31 of 51 Old 03-21-2011, 02:22 PM
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Let's all pray Sony updates Vegas to be able to edit MVC files

3D items I own:

Sony 46" LX900 active 3D set

Sony HMZ-T3 (Cushion pads and light blocker mod)

LG LW6500 passive 3D set

PS3 & PS4

Sony BDP-S570 BD3D player

JVC-GS-TD1 (with Cyclopital base extender)

Fujifilm W3

Sony Alpha 55 (for 3D panoramic photos)

Quadcopter + Zenmuse and GoPro Hero 3 (Filming...


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post #32 of 51 Old 03-21-2011, 02:35 PM
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I would think that by their very nature, MVC files can not be edited. They would first have to be split into separate left and right files and then we would need an MVC encoder (affordable one).
Might be quite a long wait.

Did IQ's suddenly drop sharply while I was away?
I enjoy 3D in spite of HDMI 1.4!
Full screen only 3D doesn't cut it!
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post #33 of 51 Old 03-24-2011, 03:22 AM
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Simple editing (cut/trim) of mp4/mvc from GS-TD1 is possible with QuickTime Pro.
I've tested short sample uploaded by Frank. Also with mp4box included in YAMB possible to split (demux) streams from mp4... Now need more tests to reencode base stream+delta into avi/cineform. Anyone have chance capture live stream from HDMI 1.4 to CineformHD with Pro capture card like AJA or Decklink ?
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post #34 of 51 Old 03-24-2011, 01:03 PM
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Is there a way to change the MVC file to a .mts so we can edit in Vegas and still keep it full HD?

I noticed using Vegas that if I put in a .mts video from the JVC I can only select half SBS 3D, if I choose full it makes the video stretched and non watchable.

3D items I own:

Sony 46" LX900 active 3D set

Sony HMZ-T3 (Cushion pads and light blocker mod)

LG LW6500 passive 3D set

PS3 & PS4

Sony BDP-S570 BD3D player

JVC-GS-TD1 (with Cyclopital base extender)

Fujifilm W3

Sony Alpha 55 (for 3D panoramic photos)

Quadcopter + Zenmuse and GoPro Hero 3 (Filming...


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post #35 of 51 Old 03-29-2011, 05:33 AM
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Peter Wimmer (author of Stereoscopic Player) said:
In the next release, I'll support the format of the new Sony and JVC camcorders
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post #36 of 51 Old 04-03-2011, 03:06 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vsv View Post

Peter Wimmer (author of Stereoscopic Player) said:
In the next release, I'll support the format of the new Sony and JVC camcorders

thats nice as many people that make 3d since very long time have a lot of
3d contet and they wait for this news.

do you know the date?
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post #37 of 51 Old 04-28-2011, 09:21 PM
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Anything news about the issue with the unsharpen picture?


Is there a firmwareupgrade?

Thanks
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post #38 of 51 Old 04-28-2011, 09:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by avsandy1 View Post

Anything news about the issue with the unsharpen picture?


Is there a firmwareupgrade?

Thanks

Luck of the draw, I think. Mine is very sharp in both lenses. Color and exposure also seem dead on so far. I'm extremely impressed with this camcorder. Tomorrow looks like another good day here in St. Louis, so I'm heading back out to Shaw's Garden for more footage - this time all in MVC mode.

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post #39 of 51 Old 05-07-2011, 08:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by W.Mayer View Post

...
seems we will get this model from sony earlier than expected
http://www.fdtimes.com/news/sony/nxc...a-sand-and-3d/

Meanwhile you sure have had the Sony HDR-TD10 for test as well. Could you please say some words re the quality in comparison to the JVC? Thanks.

I've got the JVC a couple of weeks ago, but today I've seen the Sony in a shop, and the latter is much nicer in UI, has more wide angle for recording in living rooms, has a much better screen, and is smaller and lighter.

So I have ordered the Sony in addition to my JVC, but of course I don't want to retain both, and so I would like to know, with which I should videotape and archive my kids now.

At present I have no 3D display equipment, so I can only make videos and archive them, but cannot make a practical comparison.

Therefore my question to you, which gives the better image quality in 3D.

The (German) test in Video Aktiv 4/2011 (http://www.videoaktiv.de/20110429582...um-Wunder.html) is not telling much, because they write that the JVC has the better picture quality in 2D, but the Sony has the better PQ in 3D via HDMI out.

But this may just be caused by some losses in the JVC's HDMI output conversion, and I could imagine that using the data files and some editing programs, the inherently better (?) PQ of the JVC would also show up finally in 3D

So please again: tell us about your observations.

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post #40 of 51 Old 05-07-2011, 09:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kuebler View Post

Meanwhile you sure have had the Sony HDR-TD10 for test as well. Could you please say some words re the quality in comparison to the JVC? Thanks.

I've got the JVC a couple of weeks ago, but today I've seen the Sony in a shop, and the latter is much nicer in UI, has more wide angle for recording in living rooms, has a much better screen, and is smaller and lighter.

So I have ordered the Sony in addition to my JVC, but of course I don't want to retain both, and so I would like to know, with which I should videotape and archive my kids now.

At present I have no 3D display equipment, so I can only make videos and archive them, but cannot make a practical comparison.

Therefore my question to you, which gives the better image quality in 3D.

The (German) test in Video Aktiv 4/2011 (http://www.videoaktiv.de/20110429582...um-Wunder.html) is not telling much, because they write that the JVC has the better picture quality in 2D, but the Sony has the better PQ in 3D via HDMI out.

But this may just be caused by some losses in the JVC's HDMI output conversion, and I could imagine that using the data files and some editing programs, the inherently better (?) PQ of the JVC would also show up finally in 3D

So please again: tell us about your observations.

Excellent questions and sounds like you may need to keep both. It seems there is always a trade-off. You are aware I assume that only the JVC will record stills (though that's obviously not what one buys a camcorder for as reportedly the much cheaper Fuji 3D camera will do better for stills anyway) and has the unique time lapse function as well as allows for more features to be shared by 2D and 3D recording. I believe it also records in more than one format where the Sony may only be limited to one. Of course the real important point is as you identified which is whether the ultimate PQ in 3D is in fact best on which of the two. The JVC does have a wider aperture but it sounds like Sony can record equally well in low light conditions and of course that wider angle on the Sony is a big plus. Also for those interested in editing the highest quality input in 3D, at least for now, only Sony's highest quality 3D can be handled by the newest version of Vegas. While both have image stabilization (should be a biggie for 3D), they go about it in different ways so I assume the jury is still out as to which is most effective. (I'm really hoping that decent 3D can be captured hand held which is sort of the whole purpose of a camcorder anyway. When you have both camera's in hand (pun intended) PLEASE try some hand held 3D filming and let us know which gives the more stable and viewable 3D video purely from an image stabilization perspective.)
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post #41 of 51 Old 05-07-2011, 11:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthTV View Post

...
The JVC does have a wider aperture but it sounds like Sony can record equally well in low light conditions and of course that wider angle on the Sony is a big plus.

I absolutely agree on the wider angle, but IMHO the "basic" low light image quality of the Sony seems not to be really equal, but subtly worse than the JVC's.

You may want to judge that from the mentioned German "Video Aktiv" test using their 2D test footage, for the JVC:
http://www.videoaktiv.de/Testvideos/...S-TD-1-BE.html
and for the Sony:
http://www.videoaktiv.de/Testvideos/...R-TD-10-E.html

I'm not really sure, but I think I like the JVC's PQ more. And what is valid for a single 2D channel, that should finally also be valid for a finally edited 3D video stream. At least as long as the left and right video channels are generated from 2 independent video sub-systems.

Quote:


...
When you have both camera's in hand (pun intended) PLEASE try some hand held 3D filming and let us know which gives the more stable and viewable 3D video purely from an image stabilization perspective.)

I sure will do so, although the value of my observations will be somewhat limited, as I have to judge it from the device's built-in screen.

For the next couple of months I will neither have a TV 3D system nor a projection 3D system, because I want to focus on the latter and will wait a bit until the dust settles for the best quality (currently I'm leaning toward the LG polarization projector, because it is bright enough for a large screen).

But as my children (f/4 and m/6) are rapidly growing up, I cannot afford to delay recording them onto video until the 3D industry has grown from its own infancy...

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post #42 of 51 Old 05-07-2011, 01:49 PM
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This was a nice test and definitely shows difference between the two camcorders.

I'm not a follower of the low light superiority theories as many of you are because I don't intend to work low light shooting with this tool. But what is more interest to me is the normal light PQ and IMO, the JVC wins this category out of the box as they tested. I did play with the files and the key adjustment is the chroma saturation in the reds. With this pumped up just a bit I was able to achieve a very close match in the histogram for a similar scene.

As I said earlier- if this is your only or rather most important criteria then pick your poison. For me it is also important to have a tool that is compatible in my project and kit. But this test is indeed telling for color and image quality. Low light, IMO a toss up.
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post #43 of 51 Old 05-07-2011, 06:09 PM - Thread Starter
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i read also the test at this magazine and post some numbers about resolution
sony vs jvc in the other thread but i not trust 100% magazin testresults.

i have in the last 20 years so many samples where tests are wrong (not only this magazine)because of this and that that i make my tests at my home under best condition and not under time presure and other preasure....

B&H not have the Sony so i still wait......

i am in the same position that i like to record my kids in 3d.
for 3d picture i have a Leica M9 3D Rick.

as soon as i will get my sony you will find soon later my test resultes.
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post #44 of 51 Old 05-11-2011, 03:59 AM - Thread Starter
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i got the sony today.

i hope i have time to do the test between the sony and the jvc this weekend.
i will include some screen shots at least some close up.
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post #45 of 51 Old 05-15-2011, 03:02 AM
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While still waiting for my Sony, I found an interesting (unfortunately German again) review of it: Kompakter-3D-Bolide---Sony-HDR-TD10

You might also want to look there at the comparison of the TD10 in 2D and in 3D mode. Not so bad... Comparison of TD10 in 2D and 3D mode

Finally I found some interesting information about the MVC format and its handling of both video streams: Aufzeichnungsformat-MVC

Other than I (admittedly very naively) assumed, the MVC does not contain 2 independent MPEG4-encoded video streams, but only a fully encoded video stream of what the left eye shall see (in case of the TD10 with 17 MBit/s), plus an encoding of the differential picture for the right eye (in case of the TD10 with 11 MBit/s).

This adds to the complexity of the encoding and gives an explanation, why in principal a camera might be inferior in 2D, but superior in 3D. And Sony sure has more experience in sophisticated AVCHD-type encoding than has JVC.

So I think, when my Sony arrives, I will dump my JVC to Ebay, unless W.Mayer reports some unexpected horrible experiences...

For those interested, I add a (poor) Google translation of the remarks in the test re MVC encoding:

"Recording format MVC

In the recording format Sony is very timely, and even a little ahead of its time: It captures either in 2D with up to 28 Mbps at 50p, or in 3D with 50i. Here the data rate is also about 28 Mbit. It will apparently two streams into a container MTS written, the power of the left eye with 17 Mbit is recorded and the right eye with 11 Mbit to be packed. Editing programs that do not know MVC 3D only see a 2D flow in the left eye with 17 Mbit and that can as easily as AVCHD file import. We have worked with the publication of this test have been waiting that a 3D editing program to MVC Information was read from the stream and play. And that actually succeeds with the new Sony Vegas 10.0d. While the previous version of the files only as a 2D AVCHD stream, interpreted the same land in MTS files the new version as 3D clip in the timeline. The subsequent editing can actually easily in 3D. Done The new, integrated 3D effects can be apply directly to the clips and the preview is also available in different formats. But this is still the subject of a separate article. The version 1.7.0 of the popular Stereoscopic Player should but also according to Feature List MVC can play, but we did this with a Nvidia 3D-Vision set is not succeed. The player recognized the existence already the MTS stream as 3D, but he split it just ended image with errors for the glasses. It was always to conflicts associated with the Direct Show filters. Other software packages that directly support our MVC not yet known. This should probably take some more time, come to the software maker in the aisles (if they for ever do).
"

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post #46 of 51 Old 05-17-2011, 01:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by W.Mayer View Post

i got the sony today.

i hope i have time to do the test between the sony and the jvc this weekend.
i will include some screen shots at least some close up.


Anxiously awaiting the results!
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post #47 of 51 Old 05-17-2011, 07:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by W.Mayer View Post

i got the sony today.

i hope i have time to do the test between the sony and the jvc this weekend.
i will include some screen shots at least some close up.

I'd love to have these two camcorders side by side for a day. Here's a test I'd perform (hint, hint ):

Set the cameras up one after the other on a tripod. Frame so that you have objects in the foreground, middle ground and background (roughly 4-6 feet, 10-15 feet and 40-50 feet or more). I'd match the framing and zoom ranges as closely as possible. I'd shoot at the same time - that is, not at different times of the day. I would expect the test to be revealing about color, detail, contrast, sharpness and 3D effect. I'd also set iA (intelligent Auto mode) to "On" on the Sony. It defaults to iA "On" on the JVC. I've noticed that the Sony tends to blow out the sky, while the JVC in iA does not.

I've also noticed in clips of the two camcorders that they seem to handle convergence very differently. If I frame a shot with the JVC as suggested above, I notice that almost invariably there is a point of convergence between the left and right views on a middle ground object. Objects in the foreground diverge (and depending how close they are, they can diverge significantly). Objects in the background also diverge (and sometimes a lot). With the very few Sony clips that I've seen posted, I notice that the left and right eye views diverge and stay divergent in the same way on objects in frame from near to far. Perhaps this is because of different settings having been applied to the Sony - but it does not appear to be the case.

That's a test I'd do.

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post #48 of 51 Old 05-17-2011, 07:57 AM
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Joe- to date, I haven't shot anything with "Intelligent auto" turned on with the TD10. I was unaware of this feature until after my shooting Sunday. I discovered it while working on Tom's click noise problem and trying to see what sound adjustments I could set. I saw that IA was in off position. Next time I go out with the camera I will shoot with it on. Where I'm going this weekend will not be in a location where I can set up shots. I'll be lucky to have the freedom to use the monopod so I'll need all the automatic camcorder help I can get. I've shot this place many times before both as an amateur tourist and on assignment with a production crew, never in 3D so I am looking forward to it.

Academically speaking I hope you get your chance to do the tests you want. Maybe you can get with a friend who has a TD10 and time to play.


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post #49 of 51 Old 05-31-2011, 06:48 AM
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anxiously awaiting the results!

+1

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post #50 of 51 Old 06-11-2011, 08:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by W.Mayer View Post

i got the sony today.

i hope i have time to do the test between the sony and the jvc this weekend.
i will include some screen shots at least some close up.

Did you have the time to compare JVC and Sony 3D device ?
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post #51 of 51 Old 06-12-2011, 09:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phkoech View Post

Did you have the time to compare JVC and Sony 3D device ?

He did it already a while ago, in: SONY 3D CAM VS JVC 3D CAM short Test

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