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post #181 of 315 Old 06-15-2011, 08:37 PM
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Joe- here is a "get started" on the Vegas built in titler:

Right click on the video timeline out beyond a clip to activate an extra video timeline above the main background video. Place your cursor where you want the title to begin.
Now right click and in the pull down menu select the add text Media.

start filling in the attributes like duration at the top but later you can adjust this simply by resizing the static text iof you want.
See the "SAMPLE TEXT" click and drag to highlight that and type in your own words. You can set the size and the font here. It uses all your windows fonts.
Placement allows you to click on and position the title on your screen.
Properties sets the colors around the title. Play with these to see what you can do.
This titler does not allow gradient colors. But you can animate the colors over time.
Effects adds outline and shadows, deformation adds slants.
Aside from gradient colors not allowed in a type face outline or drop shadow, you can only select one color per title effect. To add different colored titles, just add more video timelines and more clips of text media.
New in Vegas 10, maybe in 9 too but wasn't so in 8 ( That was for Big Barney 0 is that the animate button has to be selected to get the new style keyframer for all animated changes. They did this change to make all keyframing applications and universal plug-in effects compatible among windows NLE 3rd party products.

That is the basic Sony Vegas titler. I find this satisfies most all my title needs.

If you want gradient colors, add generated media and select Sony Pro Titler. Many more options here to get creative with animation and color effects.

In add generated media you will find many other tools too such as an easy tool to generate scrolling credits, color backgrounds, gradient colors and noise generators. The Legacy titlers are for people used to older versions of Vegas and wish to use the older titlers as well as making the older programs edited in Vegas 6, 5, etc compatible when imported veg projects to Vegas 10.

If you really need more such as fancy 3D fonts and other effects, you can buy 3rd party plugins. Boris Grafitti is one that comes to mind but there are several on the market that when installed will work right inside Vegas.

Finally, the power in Vegas is you can stack effects on top of clips, so if you need a glow with rays bursting as a backlight with smoke across and through your title, just find the right special effect and add it to the clip. Preview as you create. People who claim you can't do this or that with Vegas are just idiots who refuse to learn how it's done. 3rd party plugins are the answer to really specialized effects and graphics. One of my favorite is a company called New Blue f/x. They gave away a freebee a couple years ago that converts your video to a 2D color or B/W cartoon look. It was used in many commercials.

Don't forget, if you like an effect you can save it as a preset. If you just need to repeat the attributes on a bunch of clips, you can copy and paste attributes new or same to the next clip. If you need to change something to a copied set of effects, it will update all in the clone family including the original, If you paste new then it won't update the clones.



Hope that is enough to get you started.
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post #182 of 315 Old 06-16-2011, 05:18 AM
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Hi guys,
You are providing some great info here. I went through page of this thread, the JVC one and the Sony one, and I still can't find anwsers to some issues that are bugging me when trying to burn 3D Bluray 1080p.
I've set the custom 1080p24 25Mbits template as indicated in various previous posts. I can see it as an option when choosing template for the 3D BD burning, but when the "render and burn" starts the preview windown changes aspect into something square with th 16:9 2d in the middle and black bars above and below it, so that's a quick indication something is going wrong, as when rendering 720p60 10Mbit it renders fine with the preview window looking as it should. Than at the end when render reaches 100% error come up saying " The render could not complete. Unable to provide error reason. " .Something like that, all in all Vegas doesn't tell me what actually caused it. Anybody got a similar error? This has got nothing to do with 5.1 as i set the project for 2.0 and use the sony w64 setting for audio when in burn BD settings as I am still to install DVDa to have ac3.
I am working with 3 clips previously already rendered clips on the timeline:
1. h.264 mp4 side by side full 3840x1080, with stereo (set as sbs full in stereoscopic mode)
2. h.264 mp4 sbs half 1920x1080, stereo ( set in project as sbs half, with hopes that 3DBD with strech it out, but can it ? )
3. h.264 mp4 720p side by side 2560x720 (set as sbs full in stereoscopic mode, but hoping it will scale up to 1080 sbs full)

Surely this all should be within scopes of Vegas 10.0d, but I don't know why am I able to burn a 720p 3DBD only with that and not the 1080p24.

Can anybody help? Thanks
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post #183 of 315 Old 06-16-2011, 07:35 AM
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Something strange is going on with your preview screen eventhough that will not affect your render. But is does indicate, as you said something else isn't right so let's look at your Project Properties first.

Your video clip frame is according to your post all 1080 x 1920, probably 29.97 fps so start with those settings for BD-R You can select the Template HD for 1080i 1920 29.97 frame rate and move to your audio tab and it should be stereo. I use that for all my project Properties except I changed the audio to 5.1 and saved it as a custom. I open all my projects with this as right now everything I do uses those settings. In the stereoscopic settings, I set it to SBS Full except when outputting to Bloggie 3D and then I use SBS half. ( Same for YouTube as YT wants SBS Half.) But with BluRay I set it to SBS Full.
Don't worry, in your Preview screen and render to BluRay you will override to what is required for those individually.
Now your timeline will be right.
Set up your preview screens ( I have two so each has to be set individually ) Most likely you will work in Preview mode auto and set the stereographics to anaglyph red / cyan. If you have a secondary display, switch to it and set those settings as required by that monitor. This can get complicated as there are many options here for your computer's dual output video card and the monitor design itself. A topic of a separate discusssion. Doesn't affect your rendering anyway.
The project is complete and looks right on your preview window except it is in anaglyph there. You can now get ready to burn your BD-R. Until you get this down to a science, I would just render to an iso file first. The BD-R permits only two basic output resolutions and frame rates resulting in a maximum of 4 templates. You are given two, one at 720 60P and the other at 1080 24P The frame rate of your media on the timeline will be converted in this process as there are only two options for output and each is fixed to the resolution. In other words, you aren't permitted to do a custom template at 1080p60 or 720p24. Or 1080i29.97 in MVC custom. The only additional options for BD-R templates are the higher bit rates for each. Again you can select two additional custom templates in the render as and have them be available in the BluRay Burn options. I have the 25,000,000 for each of the 720p60 and the 1080p24. That gives me my 4 options. with the 2 at 10Mbit and 2 at 25 Mbit. Don't worry about the audio in this custom template as I discovered the BluRay burn function overrides what is in the template and you di this when you open up that menu and select the available sound as PCM or AC3 stereo or 5.1. I have not done a wav64 yet as my interest has always been with DD 5.1. When I have more time I may experiment with the PCM audio burn option. In Vegas you don't get menus for the Blu Ray so there is no place to select which audio for playback like a few BD movies offer. You pick this here in Vegas before rendering.

Bugs-
There are lots of reports now surfacing with this process where the render aborts before completion. I have discovered a few. So far they all seem to be connected in some way with Vegas implementation of the AC3 codec. All my aborts have occurred with large render sizes as selected smaller portions of the same timeline render fine. I have discovered a simple work around now to resolve the aborts on 60 minute timeline + renders but this should not be when plenty of hard drive space is available. As such, I won't say that the Vegas BluRay burn feature is bug free but on smaller projects I have not had any issues. I've burned both Bloggie 3D projects ( SBS half), TD10 (MVC) projects, as well as combined with clips mixed formats on the timeline with abort free results.

To help you track down your trouble, do your renders first with the default settings and then with the custom settings. I saw many try to do their first projects with a bunch of custom settings and have trouble rather than just try to understand how Vegas works first with defaults. A good examople of this are those who are experimenting with stuff that JVC was never designed to do, like JVC TD1 clips. They are starting out in alpha test mode and have additional trouble figuring out what may be a bug in Vegas from what they are doing that is different from the way Vegas was designed to work.
You need to determine if you made an incompatible template first. Make sure your project properties always are set for what you want to output. Don't select SBS half if rendering to a Blu-Ray output. Don't select SBS full if you plan to send to You Tube or to a Bloggie for display.
If you have a way to post your 3 clips or pieces of them for download, I'd be happy to set up a simple project and edit them and test a BD-RE here for you. Then we could compare and see what you did differently. I could even send you my Veg file for you to study and see what I did. But, I would want to work with your source video to be sure the "h.264.MP4" is compatible. I know you said it is but I don't want to experiment only to find out later that the clips had a problem.
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post #184 of 315 Old 06-17-2011, 12:46 PM
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I am getting quite frustrated with Vegas 10d. For weeks now I have been trying to render my Marine World movie, over 2 hours of footage. And each and every time Vegas either gives me an error, crashes or eventually freezes. And forget using transitions because it will pop an error on me once it gets to one. It can't be my PC because heck, 10c ran flawlessly on my crappy old Sony with much lower specs.
I really hope Sony gives us another update to address all the issues 10d has.
I'd also love the feature that if by chance the program crashes or your computer for some reason shuts down during a render.. It remembers and starts from that point so you DON'T have to start over again! The option to also pause the render would be great as well.
Not to mention add 5.1 for making a 3DBD.. It works for making SBS so why must one have DVD A to make a simple 3DBD?! Kinda makes NO sense.

3D items I own:

Sony 46" LX900 active 3D set

Sony HMZ-T3 (Cushion pads and light blocker mod)

LG LW6500 passive 3D set

PS3 & PS4

Sony BDP-S570 BD3D player

JVC-GS-TD1 (with Cyclopital base extender)

Fujifilm W3

Sony Alpha 55 (for 3D panoramic photos)

Quadcopter + Zenmuse and GoPro Hero 3 (Filming...

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post #185 of 315 Old 06-17-2011, 02:49 PM
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Hey I feel your pain on this too and agree with your suggestions. Would be nice to have. However, that is not in our cards right now so we need to change the rules of the game. That is what I did last week. I have this 1 hour project that was crashing at the end of every render about 8 hrs and 45 minutes. I observed that the crash point happened a couple frames into the audio render portion of the processing steps. The video rendering which takes the longest time was what was failing. So, I did some test renders, experiments if you will. I set up my timeline with the video track disabled and added a black clip to a new video track. Started to render and it crashed! Ah Ha! it is the audio that was causing the crash. However, if I rendered the same audio for less than an hour length it completed fine.
So, here's what I did, I rendered the 62 minute audio 14 tracks to a PCM 5.1 file in wav format instead of the AC3 file. That completed fine and then attached it to the original video and rendered the whole thing in about 9 hours. No crashing!

I haven't had time to investigate this further but my crashing seems to be caused by a file in AC3 that is too large, maybe??? I seem to recall reading something about this before with AC3.

In your case, I notice you are using a very slow computer to begin with and maybe the hard drive capacity isn't big enough. All speculation on my part. While you may think you have adequate HD capacity, you must not forget that there are temp files that get generated by default on your C drive in the Vegas 10 folder so the C drive must be adequate capacity to handle all these temp files as well as the auto backup file. I know for a fact that one of my renderings here caused temp files on the C drive that filled it up near the end of a render so that was one thing I needed to do and that was dump tons of files off the C drive. I could have changed the default to another drive but decided on a general Spring cleaning instead. Besides, MY reboot time now is 3 times as fast. I have half the startup files as before. And the render time went from 12 hours down to 9 hours for the one hour timeline. Prudent decision on my part to do the house cleaning.

Joe gave me a link to his JVC saving codec from Cineform and I have since added that and that is the only addition. I can now load JVC MVC clips in Vegas ( just to test and play around) so I'm doing a minor tweak to my last 62 minute project which shouldn't affect the render time. I made a slight adjustment in the center channel volume at 3 clips. IT is now rendering. If the render time goes off into the stratosphere, I'll let you know that this is an issue. Of course, it is just resident as I have no JVC clips in use. But that could be a good test to run, i.e. make up a 1 hour timeline of JVC clips using Cineform and see if the render time on our older computers goes way high. Remember, while I'm using a faster computer than yours it is still much slower than what Joe is using.

In the meantime, Bravia3D, why don't you prerender your audio to a simpler track and then prerender the video to simpler track, maybe this will help as it did for me. Also, maybe you need to do some house cleaning on your hard drive too.
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post #186 of 315 Old 06-17-2011, 03:41 PM
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Will give it a try and see how it turns out

One forsure thing though is adding transitions and doing a long render always fails. However, selecting only the area I added the transition works fine with no error.

I'm sure I should clean up my C drive. Since I am using a Mac Air, Windows don't have much HD space. Only about 80gigs. But I have a 1TB USB drive where I save all renders connected.

3D items I own:

Sony 46" LX900 active 3D set

Sony HMZ-T3 (Cushion pads and light blocker mod)

LG LW6500 passive 3D set

PS3 & PS4

Sony BDP-S570 BD3D player

JVC-GS-TD1 (with Cyclopital base extender)

Fujifilm W3

Sony Alpha 55 (for 3D panoramic photos)

Quadcopter + Zenmuse and GoPro Hero 3 (Filming...

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post #187 of 315 Old 06-18-2011, 07:03 AM
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Quote:


Since I am using a Mac Air, Windows don't have much HD space.

Help my Mac ignorance but isn't windows under a MAC restricted to 2 Gb file size too? Or, was that just a compatible external drive. I recall I had to switch to FAT32 for something and that large files on my MACBook Pro for Vegas using Parallels for a version of windows couldn't do more than 2Gb due to hard drive format limitations.
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post #188 of 315 Old 06-18-2011, 08:48 AM
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Don, I hope you realize our meanderings into brodcast history not only put people to sleep, but also earn us a spot on countless ignore lists.

Oops. Wrong thread. That's what I get for trying to respond while having breakfast at Denny's. It's still true, though.

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post #189 of 315 Old 06-18-2011, 01:25 PM
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Don, I'm not sure of older Macs but mine sure isn't limited. Works just like a normal Windows PC.

3D items I own:

Sony 46" LX900 active 3D set

Sony HMZ-T3 (Cushion pads and light blocker mod)

LG LW6500 passive 3D set

PS3 & PS4

Sony BDP-S570 BD3D player

JVC-GS-TD1 (with Cyclopital base extender)

Fujifilm W3

Sony Alpha 55 (for 3D panoramic photos)

Quadcopter + Zenmuse and GoPro Hero 3 (Filming...

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post #190 of 315 Old 06-18-2011, 02:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bravia3D View Post

Don, I'm not sure of older Macs but mine sure isn't limited. Works just like a normal Windows PC.

Yeah, I think it had to do with an external "compatible drive" needing to be FAT32 so it can be read by windows on a MAC too. I know my FW800 drive is formated that way for FCP and Vegas for the Macbook Pro. Anyway, just something to check out to see if that was a source of your trouble. I'm just brainstorming here as Macs aren't my area.

Joe- I wondered why you were responding here but that's OK. When I was much younger, I thought History was boring too. And, FYI- I wrote that loooooong post with a bit of snickering thinking that I will just follow your lead helping others get to sleep.
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post #191 of 315 Old 06-20-2011, 07:57 PM
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For nearly two weeks I have been trying to burn to Blu-ray disc a 20 minute 3D video (side-by-side full) in Vegas 10d. I have done this with another project of about the same length with only minor problems. However, this project has been nothing but trouble. The clips were all shot with the Sony HDR-TD10. The project has no effects other than a single Sony Levels effect with a slight gamma adjustment at the track level. All transitions are simple cross dissolves of 1 second duration. All of the 5.1 sound has been removed and replaced with a stereo music track.

During the first ten attempts to burn to Blu-ray disc from the timeline, the "rendering video" phase would simply cease at some apparently arbitrary point. Task manager would show Vegas still running, but my cpu usage dropped from 90-100% to <10% and frames were not increasing in the Preview Window of Vegas. I would have to force quit Vegas 10d, reboot, and try again. The same thing (rendering suddenly ceasing with no error messages but never at the same point in the project) happened time and time again at various durations into the "rendering video" phase..

After a few days of trying to get the project to render, I finally decided to start over and re-edit the entire project. Today I was thrilled to finally get an iso image burned and from that I burned a Blu-ray DVD. However, when I play that back on my Sony 3D Blu-ray player feeding my Sony VPL-VW90ES projector, some 4-5 of the 50 or so clips in the project play back with an apparent loss of synchronization so that the entire clip is flashing wildly and almost unwatchable. Note that this phenomenon is not only seen in 3D on my Sony projector but is also found when I play the Blu-ray disc that I have created back in PowerDVD as a 2D image.

The flashing and loss of synchronization of right and left eye images is confined to single clips in the project. The moment the action moves to the next clip, it stabilizes and is beautiful until another instance of a clip producing this behavior is encountered. In total about 5 clips our of the total of 50 or so clips in the project show this behavior.

Has anyone else using Vegas 10d to edit clips from the Sony HDR-TD10 seen this peculiar behavior? Do you have any idea what is causing it?

I have reviewed the clips showing this behavior by playing them back on the Vegas timeline, and I can see not a single thing wrong with them. I have even examined them closely in anaglyph mode in the Vegas Preview window and I can see no problems. I can see nothing that distinguishes the clips showing this behavior from all the other clips that don't show the behavior.

The only thing that I know to do is to re-burn the project to recreate the iso image and hope that the weird loss of synchronization on certain clips does not repeat itself. If that still shows the problem, then I guess I shall just have to try burning portions of the project to a Blu-ray iso image while fiddling with the clips that show the weird behavior until by serendipity I solve the problem or just give up.

I would appreciate hearing if any of you have encountered this problem in your 3D editing in Vegas 10d and I would especially appreciate hearing any suggestions for solving the problem.

Tom
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post #192 of 315 Old 06-21-2011, 06:22 AM
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Tom- Have you tried to render using the offending clips in a short program for testing? See if those clips have something that causes the problem?

I had a number of aborts on my last project that seemed to be related to the length of the project being over an hour. After cleaning up my C drive of all unnecessary bloatware, stuff as demos I had downloaded, I freed up another 80Gb of C drive space and the render completed. I'm guessing that the drive just didn't have enough capacity to store the temp files created during the render and just quit. I don't think this is the same issue you're having but it is certain that 10d with 3D projects is no piece of cake and the troubles must be carefully uncovered and fixed. I also had trouble with the original DD5.1 and I had to preprender the DD5.1 to a PCM wave file I resynced to the video and that fixed the aborted renders due to the DD5.1 plus several stereo tracks over an hour long.

I think there is no single answer that is causing the problem we are seeing. We are not the only ones. I do believe that 3D editing is far more system taxing than any of us realize yet. One has to become a good detective to fix the problems. Like the tap tap tap sound fix, I was at a dead end until another figured out how to work around that and I use that process now as SOP.

As far as Sony response to these issues has been they have no answers except when the customer is obvious;ly doing something wrong and a known procedure fix can be offered. e.g. No DD5.1-- Did you load DVDA yet? Another issue is using unsupported equipment, hardware and Sony will be of no help. I don't believe Sony will support a Vegas user working on MAC hardware even though it appears to work with just as many bugs as someone working with supported hardware. They just don't list it as a supported system. Likewise the JVC MVC codec. People doing this are even more on their own than me and I am not getting many answers. FYI- to date I have gotten no response on the DD5.1 bug in Vegas Pro. As you saw, in the Vegas support forum, a few numbskulls accused you of imagining the problem. I hate when boneheads have nothing to offer than pairing you out as some nutcase with an imagination for trouble. The problems are real and more than a few are experiencing them.

However, I know, behind the scenes, Sony is working on these and will have a solution down the road. Question is when. They always have in the past and I truest they will in the future. For 3D this is not version 10d but 0.d. I'll bet the real 3D capable product will be in version 11. and DVDA v 6.0 Wait and see!

Also- Yesterday, it was leaked that a new ipad3 to be out in September will support 3D display. I take this as a sign Apple will start supporting 3D content and as such, we may see some FCP competition. For you with a Mac, this could be a better solution. The announcement was not made by Apple but came from a Chinese news release. So you can decide on the reliability of the info.
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post #193 of 315 Old 06-21-2011, 12:19 PM
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Don,

Thank you for responding and, as always, providing some thoughtful comments.

I have not yet had the time to try short portions of this 20 minute project that contain offending clips and see if they still show the problem I described. This is clearly the next step. Of course, the problem is that Sony has provided for no way to put these fragments together into a complete production. It is only useful as a diagnostic tool trying to (by serendipity) identify the thing causing the problem.

Virtually the only software I have installed on this fresh installation of Windows 7 Professional 64 bit is Sony Vegas and the Sony PMB software. I don't use Windows for anything other than these two programs. I have over 450 GB of free space on my C: drive so that should not be contributing to the problem, but next time I shall create the iso image on an external drive just in case something funky is going on with the C: drive.

I agree with you that editing 3D is very taxing on the computer system, but this Mac Pro 8 core is a monster machine that can should be able to handle it and does not seem to break into a sweat doing so.

I also moved the project to my dual core PC and tried to prepare the Blu-ray iso image there. The project failed in exactly the same way that it had running under Windows 7 on my Mac Pro so that eliminated any "Mac aspect" to the issue as far as I was concerned.

I left Vegas some 3.5 years ago because of the bugginess of the program. The fact that Vegas is the only NLE capable of ingesting the Sony HDR-TD10 clips is all that brought me back to Vegas. Unfortunately, I have come to the conclusion that Vegas 10d is even more buggy and prone to crashing and mysterious maladies than Vegas 8e was. It is all sad because the 90% of the project that was perfect looked absolutely splendid on my Sony 90ES with brilliant rich color and great 3D depth with no ghosting at all. Bottom line is that I think Sony has a winner with the HDR-TD10 if they can get Vegas 10 to handle editing more effectively than they have done in 10d. I am not confident that Sony has either the capability or the desire to make the commitment to improve the reliability of Sony Vegas 10.

Incidentally, I posted this problem on the Sony forums and have obtained exactly zero responses. As far as I can tell there are no 3D editors reading or posting on the Sony Vegas Forum.

As you may have noticed Final Cut Pro X came out today. Not surprisingly it has no support for ingesting 3D video from the Sony HDR-TD10 and frankly considering Steve Jobs attitude towards Blu-ray (very misguided in my opinion) I don't expect Apple to add that support.

My NLE of preference has become Adobe's Premier Pro CS5 which literally flies on this Mac Pro, is rock stable, and provides great results. However, it requires so many hurtles (intermediate codecs, etc.) to edit 3D in Adobe's Premier Pro CS5.5 that I have not had the fortitude to try to do so. I am hopeful that Adobe, who seems far more responsive to their customers than either Apple or Sony will add support for the Sony MVC codec.

Tom
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post #194 of 315 Old 06-21-2011, 12:59 PM
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Hey, Tom. Sorry to hear about your woes with Vegas. I'm ordinarily a Premiere user, too, and before now I've had no real experience with Vegas. I've found the transition fairly painless, although I'm still stumbling from time to time, as everyone who tackles a new NLE does. On my everyday system, Vegas 10d has been relatively stable, with only a few crashes. Premiere has been buggier, even though the interface and general playback is smoother for me (and the previews much cleaner). However, without Cineform Neo, Premiere can't do 3D editing at all. I fear Premiere's bugginess is related to my system's possible instability due to codec conflicts.

Right now, I'm just happy I have a workflow that allows me to produce a 3D Blu-ray (usually), but I'm a far cry from a smooth 3D editing experience. And I have the added inconvenience of having to convert my JVC clips to Cineform first. It's especially ironic because with regular HD editing (even AVCHD), I was in editing Nirvana with Premiere. It felt really good. It's just crazy what can be done with a $100 nVidia card - which supports insane real time playback of multiple HD streams and effects. We'll be there one day with 3D, too - within a year or so, I'd bet.

If HD editing is a Segway ride on a smooth sidewalk, then 3D HD editing is a slow walk on a rocky mountain path, with a broken walking stick and bad shoes. I'm hanging on for dear life.

My guess also would be that you're having hard drive space issues, but the problem might be related to your project settings. Could you list both your project settings and disc output settings?

Joe Clark

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post #195 of 315 Old 06-21-2011, 01:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Landis View Post

Joe- here is a "get started" on the Vegas built in titler:

Right click on the video timeline out beyond a clip to activate an extra video timeline above the main background video. Place your cursor where you want the title to begin.
Now right click and in the pull down menu select the add text Media.

start filling in the attributes like duration at the top but later you can adjust this simply by resizing the static text iof you want.
See the "SAMPLE TEXT" click and drag to highlight that and type in your own words. You can set the size and the font here. It uses all your windows fonts.
Placement allows you to click on and position the title on your screen.
Properties sets the colors around the title. Play with these to see what you can do.
This titler does not allow gradient colors. But you can animate the colors over time.
Effects adds outline and shadows, deformation adds slants.
Aside from gradient colors not allowed in a type face outline or drop shadow, you can only select one color per title effect. To add different colored titles, just add more video timelines and more clips of text media.
New in Vegas 10, maybe in 9 too but wasn't so in 8 ( That was for Big Barney 0 is that the animate button has to be selected to get the new style keyframer for all animated changes. They did this change to make all keyframing applications and universal plug-in effects compatible among windows NLE 3rd party products.

That is the basic Sony Vegas titler. I find this satisfies most all my title needs.

If you want gradient colors, add generated media and select Sony Pro Titler. Many more options here to get creative with animation and color effects.

In add generated media you will find many other tools too such as an easy tool to generate scrolling credits, color backgrounds, gradient colors and noise generators. The Legacy titlers are for people used to older versions of Vegas and wish to use the older titlers as well as making the older programs edited in Vegas 6, 5, etc compatible when imported veg projects to Vegas 10.

If you really need more such as fancy 3D fonts and other effects, you can buy 3rd party plugins. Boris Grafitti is one that comes to mind but there are several on the market that when installed will work right inside Vegas.

Finally, the power in Vegas is you can stack effects on top of clips, so if you need a glow with rays bursting as a backlight with smoke across and through your title, just find the right special effect and add it to the clip. Preview as you create. People who claim you can't do this or that with Vegas are just idiots who refuse to learn how it's done. 3rd party plugins are the answer to really specialized effects and graphics. One of my favorite is a company called New Blue f/x. They gave away a freebee a couple years ago that converts your video to a 2D color or B/W cartoon look. It was used in many commercials.

Don't forget, if you like an effect you can save it as a preset. If you just need to repeat the attributes on a bunch of clips, you can copy and paste attributes new or same to the next clip. If you need to change something to a copied set of effects, it will update all in the clone family including the original, If you paste new then it won't update the clones.



Hope that is enough to get you started.

Thanks, Don. And Jeez, how did I miss this tutorial? I'm just seeing it for the first time, though you said you'd do it in another thread. I'm at a point where I want to add some 3D titles to my timeline, so I'm going to try these techniques. I've decided not to worry about animating them, so long as I can place them along the z-axis. So far, I've had zero success with any titles in Vegas in my 3D project, but I gave up early because it wasn't a priority until now.

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post #196 of 315 Old 06-21-2011, 01:21 PM
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When I've had issues with large projects in Premiere in the past, I've sometimes been able to get around them by rendering out scenes individually, then stringing them together in a simplified project with many fewer elements. Don't know if that can be done with 3D in Vegas. Premiere allows you to export the left and right eye views individually (which I plan to use with some more advanced masking and titling I have in mind for the future).

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post #197 of 315 Old 06-21-2011, 02:24 PM
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Tom- It sounds like your C drive is not limiting your temp files like happened with my computer. And, your other test seems to indicate this is a problem inside Vegas or a couple corrupted clips. Not sure you had a chance yet to render test with just the offending clips but if that works and doesn't inside your project, then I'm stumped as to why.

Joe- I've done a couple long renders here 10 hours each with that Cineform resident on my system and it had no affect on render time. Still the same at 10 hours rendering for a 62 minute timeline with 6 channels of audio, MVC video and lots of transitions, color corrections, slomo and reverse clip effects. I was relieved as I wanted to keep that codec resident to work with yours and others JVC clips when needing to test stuff.

I began editing a new project late last week. Today I edited for about 5 hours, laid in over 150 clips with reverse, added some fancy transitions did some pan crop work and the system never crashed at all! I have the timeline set for ac3 output and each stereo track is set for a mix in 5.1 space but the big difference is two major things- The C drive has been cleansed of all the bloatware freeing up more space for the temp files and none of my clips on this project were recorded with 5.1, only 2.0. My system is still not fast enough to play the timeline so every transition I do, I step through it one frame at a time in slow motion to see if it looks good. The real good news is the Vegas project didn't crash.

In this project most of my clips I shot will be in chronological order which makes for an easier edit story wise. There are a dozen locations that way but within each, I have some b-roll and some out of order shots to rearrange. Because I shot it this way, I decided to select all the clips and place them in the timeline in the beginning. The total time of all the clips was 2Hr and 30 minutes but I suspect I'll be just under 80 minutes when done. A couple locations I shot didn't work well at all in 3D so I dumped the entire location. It was too dark and there were lots of focus and noise issues.
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post #198 of 315 Old 06-21-2011, 05:11 PM
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Don and Joe,

Thank you for your responses. Tomorrow I shall have the time to try a test with just a few clips including some clips in the project that are showing the instability problem. If I can't determine the cause of the problem from that, then I may just have to give up 3D editing until another NLE can accept the HDR-TD10 clips and output to 3D Blu-ray, and, of course, that may be a very long time. It's a shame because I really like the Sony camera and I have learned how to work around the fact that it blows out highlights.

Joe, it is not my project settings or preferences in Vegas 10d causing the problem. I have used the exact same settings on my first project which was eventually successful at creating a good Blu-ray iso image and a Blu-ray 3D disc. The frustration is that you just can't see what is causing the problem in the Vegas timeline, and I have basically been spending all of my time in Vegas being a human debugger of their software. I far prefer to spend my time editing and creating good movies than in debugging software. I know Vegas well, and over the last two weeks I have REALLY gotten to know it well.

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post #199 of 315 Old 06-22-2011, 11:56 PM
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Anyone want to do some testing of a bug I found in Vegas 10d?

Take an MVC 3D video clip and put it on your timeline. Create a second timeline for titles above it. Now, You should be able to see the title super imposed over your 3D clip but it will be at the screen plane in the Z axis. To make this title pop in front of the screen in front of all the 3D clips images so no occlusion ( collision) occurs, add a 3D stereographic effect to the title and then using the horizontal slider add negative parallax to the title. You should see the title pull out in front of the 3D MVC video objects. Don't take it too far out in front or your eyes will start to diverge too much and the text will ghost out. All right so far so good!

Now here is where the bug begins. If you render this to 1080 24P and burn to a BD-R or RE and play it back the title will be invisible!

Now try a second test. This time add positive parallax by shifting the title back into the screen plane behind it. Make sure your 3D MVC video clip has plenty of depth behind the screen plane or you will collide with the graphic. We don't want to do that, just always place the title just in front of the video but behind the screen plane. Now render it as before. This time I suspect you will get a flashing title where it comes and goes. I am getting consistent bugs using the titler over MVC video with 3D effect added.

Bloggie SBS clips work fine. It's the MVC clips that exhibit the bug. Would someone also test the Paired Left and right clips for this bug.
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post #200 of 315 Old 06-23-2011, 07:18 AM
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I'll be glad to, Don. It'll have to wait til later today, since I'm headed out for several hours.

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post #201 of 315 Old 06-23-2011, 04:54 PM
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Here's the test I did, Don. It's 4 sequences of titles rendered in Vegas - each with a title in the screen plane, a pop-out, and a recessed title. The first clip is one you posted some time ago. The other clips are from my JVC - first from a Cineform intermediate, then from left/right files split by MVCtoAVI Converter, then a title sequence rendered to mp4 left/right files in Premiere and placed in the sequence in Vegas.

I'm not sure if something was wrong with my BD-RE, but when my 3D Blu-ray player got to the first pop-out title, it froze up for a bit. I had to stop it and start it again, then fast forward to move it ahead through the titles. It plays on the computer, but it cuts out and then the video is choppy in the pop-out and recessed title segments. Even on the timeline, I can't see a 3D effect at all when I apply it to the title, no matter how much 3D paralax I apply. (Although I did see 3D briefly on *part* of one title. Something's definitely not right. At one point, the pop-out title flashes then disappears, at another the same thing happens with the recessed title. The title at the screen plane seems to play OK.

I'm going to render my titles in Premiere, then pull them into Vegas. I'll post those results later.

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post #202 of 315 Old 06-23-2011, 07:02 PM
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Here is an update on my efforts to prepare a 3D Blu-ray disc of my 20 minute project in Vegas Pro 10d the trials and tribulations which I have described above. I am happy to say that I have at last succeeded in getting a perfect 3D blu-ray disc of this 20 minute project. The Blu-ray disc looks splendid on my Sony 90ES with beautiful color, rich detail, and absolutely no video anomalies at all.

Here is a brief summary of how I proceeded to identify the cause of the problem, what I did to solve the problem, and a few repeatable bugs that I have encountered in Vegas 10d. I took the 20 minute project and removed all but the first five MVC clips shot with the Sony HDR-TD10. The fifth clip showed the anomaly which can best be described as looking like a jump occurring between one frame nearer the camera and one further away. The solution turned out to be quite simple. I had a Vegas stereoscopic filter on this fifth clip because when I had viewed the clip on the Vegas Preview screen in anaglyph I felt I need some correction for ghosting. This video anomaly could NOT be seen on playing the clip back from the Vegas timeline, but when I watched the Vegas Preview window during the "rendering video" phase of building the Blu-ray disc, I could clearly see the frames jumping forward and back in a very peculiar fashion. Simply removing the stereoscopic filter completely solved the problem with a normal video being seen for this clip in the preview window during the rendering video phase. I quickly determined that the other five clips also had a stereoscopic filter added. Removal of the stereoscopic filter from those clips totally eliminated the video anomaly on rendering. Interestingly enough, upon viewing the blu-ray disc of the project on my Sony 90ES with active shutter glasses, there was no ghosting at all on these clips and so the stereoscopic filter that had been causing the render problems had never been needed in the first place.

Now here is the interesting part. The very first clip on the timeline of this project also has a stereoscopic filter on that clip with the same type of corrections to remove ghosting as the other five clips and yet when that clip is rendered it shows no problems even though the stereoscopic filter has been left in place. I cannot explain this at all. In a previous Vegas 10d project of HDR-TD10 footage, I had several clips with a stereoscopic filter in place to remove ghosting seen in the anaglyph preview and they caused no problems during the video rendering at all.

Here are some other problems which are apparently bugs in Vegas 10d at least when it comes to editing MVC footage from the Sony HDR-TD10. Normally I can remove a clip from the timeline by simply selecting it and pressing "delete" on the keyboard. When I did this with the timeline from this project, it crashed Vegas every single time. I quickly learned that I could get around this problem by opening up space on the timeline by dragging clips to one side in order to isolate the undesired clip from all other clips, then select it and hit delete.

The tendency of the Vegas 10d program to simply cease rendering without cause, error message or apparent reason simply disappeared. I have no idea what caused it in the first place, but I have now been able to select burn to Blu-ray disc on several occasions without any problems occurring even with projects requiring several hours to render the video and build the Blu-ray disc image.

Tom
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post #203 of 315 Old 06-23-2011, 07:51 PM
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Here is an update on my efforts to prepare a 3D Blu-ray disc of my 20 minute project in Vegas Pro 10d the trials and tribulations which I have described above. I am happy to say that I have at last succeeded in getting a perfect 3D blu-ray disc of this 20 minute project. The Blu-ray disc looks splendid on my Sony 90ES with beautiful color, rich detail, and absolutely no video anomalies at all.

Here is a brief summary of how I proceeded to identify the cause of the problem, what I did to solve the problem, and a few repeatable bugs that I have encountered in Vegas 10d. I took the 20 minute project and removed all but the first five MVC clips shot with the Sony HDR-TD10. The fifth clip showed the anomaly which can best be described as looking like a jump occurring between one frame nearer the camera and one further away. The solution turned out to be quite simple. I had a Vegas stereoscopic filter on this fifth clip because when I had viewed the clip on the Vegas Preview screen in anaglyph I felt I need some correction for ghosting. This video anomaly could NOT be seen on playing the clip back from the Vegas timeline, but when I watched the Vegas Preview window during the "rendering video" phase of building the Blu-ray disc, I could clearly see the frames jumping forward and back in a very peculiar fashion. Simply removing the stereoscopic filter completely solved the problem with a normal video being seen for this clip in the preview window during the rendering video phase. I quickly determined that the other five clips also had a stereoscopic filter added. Removal of the stereoscopic filter from those clips totally eliminated the video anomaly on rendering. Interestingly enough, upon viewing the blu-ray disc of the project on my Sony 90ES with active shutter glasses, there was no ghosting at all on these clips and so the stereoscopic filter that had been causing the render problems had never been needed in the first place.

Now here is the interesting part. The very first clip on the timeline of this project also has a stereoscopic filter on that clip with the same type of corrections to remove ghosting as the other five clips and yet when that clip is rendered it shows no problems even though the stereoscopic filter has been left in place. I cannot explain this at all. In a previous Vegas 10d project of HDR-TD10 footage, I had several clips with a stereoscopic filter in place to remove ghosting seen in the anaglyph preview and they caused no problems during the video rendering at all.

Here are some other problems which are apparently bugs in Vegas 10d at least when it comes to editing MVC footage from the Sony HDR-TD10. Normally I can remove a clip from the timeline by simply selecting it and pressing "delete" on the keyboard. When I did this with the timeline from this project, it crashed Vegas every single time. I quickly learned that I could get around this problem by opening up space on the timeline by dragging clips to one side in order to isolate the undesired clip from all other clips, then select it and hit delete.

The tendency of the Vegas 10d program to simply cease rendering without cause, error message or apparent reason simply disappeared. I have no idea what caused it in the first place, but I have now been able to select burn to Blu-ray disc on several occasions without any problems occurring even with projects requiring several hours to render the video and build the Blu-ray disc image.

Tom
My experience with titling in Vegas 10d has been similarly buggy. I'm glad you've found workarounds to your issues. I'm curious as to why you felt it necessary to use a 3D filter with some of your 3D files to remove ghosting, and how you adjusted the images to remove it. I ask because I believe that ghosting is almost always a function of the display. People who have DLP projectors almost never (most would say "never ever" ) see ghosting. Although my JVC RS40 ghosts more with 120hz 3D material than 3D Blu-ray, I don't worry about it too much. One day, we'll have displays that won't ghost at all. Personally, I doubt it's worth it to spend a lot of time adjusting 3D clips to get rid of excessive parallax. Now, if you're doing it to clean up a shot that simply won't work otherwise, that's a different story. Or maybe I'm just misunderstanding what you're doing.

Right now I'm created a 3D Blu-ray iso of titles that I rendered in Premiere. If they look good, I'll use them in the Vegas project. One of these days, when I get around to refining my 3D project monitoring, I won't be doing so much trial and error.

I'll post those title shots after they've finished.

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post #204 of 315 Old 06-23-2011, 08:10 PM
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Wow, that was a terrible render in Vegas. The left/right files I exported from Premiere looked OK, but the result was awful, awful video. I didn't even bother to burn it to a BD-RE - it would be a waste of time. I'm trying a Cineform intermediate file now. Don't know if it will be any better.

So, at this point, I can't render titles in Vegas that are not on the screen plane, and titles from Premiere would give me epilepsy. Not very good options.

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post #205 of 315 Old 06-24-2011, 01:35 AM
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Tom- Oh boy. You used a stereographic filter improperly. No wonder. It's not for what you tried to do. The adjustment you did is for paired 2D clips. To do what you intended to do would require you:
1. Render the MVC clip first to Left, then render it to right only. Now you have the two clips like they were shot with two 2D cameras. Next you put them one above the other on the timeline and line them up. Make sure the left one is on top. Then you would select both and then right click and "Pair as stereographic pair. NOW, after all that preparation, you can add the 3D stereographic effect and adjust it for ghosts. LOL! However, having done all that I would say it is highly unlikely you would ever need to make an adjustment like that considering the TD10 uses perfectly aligned twin lenses and cameras. See, what anxiety you get into when you try to fix something that isn't broke! I'm happy you found the errors as something you did because waiting for a Sony fix would be awful.
Of course the other use for that effect is to position a 2D clip forward or backward in the Z axis which is what we do with titles. And we are having trouble with that as it works in preview but doesn't render at all against MVC clips. I want to try a work around which Joe is pretesting for me now. That would be to prerender the needed MVC background clip for a title as Left and right, then pair the two (no need to apply the 3D Stereo effect as they are properly paired and aligned) but then position a title and apply the 3D stereograohic effect on the title. It would already be reduced from the MVC format and now an image pair. Second work around would be to pair the two and prerender as a SBS clip. So far I have not had any buginess with titles over a SBS clip from the Bloggie 3D so this is why I want to do that.

Joe- I have pretty much put all my Vegas crashing and render aborts in the past. I have performed quite a few very long renders to BD-RE now with no crashing or aborts. I am making sure I have (by practice) 75 Gb on C drive space for my temp files and now have 100Gb space on my scratch drive. The iso renders are running approx. 15Gb on the finished project and a check near the end of the C drive shows it chewing up 25Gb which is all gone and recovered at the end of the rendering. The other thing I did was shut down all non vegas background operations including antivirus scans. Anyway, the computer hasn't crashed during editing or during rendering for nearly a week of long hours of work.

Problems with current project. I did my first cut resulting in a 77 minute timeline. Still more artistic cuts to make but I rendered to the 1080 24P 25Mbit and as this video has quite a bit of movement where I shot out the side of a vehicle ( boat and tram) the ride was smooth but the video exhibited that motion blur everywhere that only shows during rendered playback. I'm doing my second cut now using the 720 60P rendering option. This is a shame because the project has some really great still shots that look great in full HD resolution. I'm really concerned how this will be compromised just to save the traveling sequences. But I have to do this or those motion videos have to go. Shame I can't have both. Have you resolved your motion artifacts in 24P yet? I'm not referring to judder here. I have none of that. Just the motion artifacts with action too fast for 24 fps. I once tried to do a 1080 59.94i render to Blu Ray but it aborted as not a permitted format for Blu-Ray. Have to chalk this up as a live and learn. Some things just conflict in the shoot.
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post #206 of 315 Old 06-24-2011, 09:20 AM
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Don and Joe,

When I took my HDR-TD10 to the Durham Museum of Life and Science I somehow managed to have Intelligent Auto turned off. A few of the 50-60 clips that I had in the project seemed to show ghosting when viewed on my 90ES. I thought I would use the Sony stereoscopic filter to correct the ghosting. In fact, I had done this in my very first 3D project with a few TD10 clips in Vegas 10d with no problems. However, in this project every time I used a Sony stereoscopic filter to correct for ghosting on a clip, that clip would not render properly when the Blu-ray disc image was created. And, furthermore, when I simply removed the stereoscopic filter, burned the image to the Blu-ray disc and played it back to my Sony 90ES, I saw absolutely no ghosting whatsoever. Rest assured that I will not be applying the Sony stereoscopic filter to TD10 clips in the future!

I have applied the stereoscopic filter to move text forward of the scene (a TD10 clip) in my opening title shot for this project and I applied it to my closing credit scroll over a still frame for the same purpose. Those instances did just what I wanted and caused no problems.

There appears to be no interest on the Sony Vegas Forum in 3D editing in VEgas Pro 10d. What a shame!

Tom
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post #207 of 315 Old 06-24-2011, 10:08 AM
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Quote:


I have applied the stereoscopic filter to move text forward of the scene (a TD10 clip) in my opening title shot.

Interesting. I have never been able to get this to work except non MVC clips. It shows up in the preview just fine but everytime I render, the title is gone.

I'm doing another test where I created an effect that uses a 3D MVC clip with far positive parallax ( main scene back behind the screen plane) Then in front of the scene but still back behind the screen plane I added a still image jpg of an American Flag with transparency set to 30% so the 3D Image sort of blends in a dream like state through the background and in front of it. It looked exactly like I wanted and with the 3D stereographic effect added to the flag jpg we'll see how it rendered. I'm about to play it in a few minutes.
I don't know why but No title has ever rendered for me with that effect added when over the 3D MVC video, but works fine with SBS and of course 2D video.
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post #208 of 315 Old 06-25-2011, 02:15 AM
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Results of rendering to 720 60p 1280:

What a world of difference! The loss of resolution was not noticeable but the sharpness and focus more than made up for it. With all the camera dolly moves much of the program was looking out of focus in 1080i rendering. So, detail was mostly lost.

Joe- Have you ever tried to do a separate rendering to 1080 60P ? I know it is not permitted in the Blu-Ray burn templates in Vegas Pro 10d. But it may be possible to generate an MVC file, video only, and then render your 5.1 audio PCM only as a wave file and try to import these to DVDA 5.2 and compile. Then burn the Blu Ray from there. According to Sony Tech Support, DVDA 5.2 will burn the MVC rendered output to BluRay but you just can't use Menus for 3D. I haven't had time to test this but I may after the editing is done. Note- I'm not saying any of this works but it is worth checking out to see how far we get. Also, do Blu-Ray Players even support this 1080 60p for 3D? I know the PS3 claims to do 1080 60p but not sure about this in 3D.


Edit- Just tried and could not find a way quickly to do a 3D MVC in 1080 60p. May not be possible in Vegas. The 720 60P isn't bad at all on my 60 Hz 32" monitor so I'm going to go with that. I haven't tried it on my Sony 90ES yet. Rendering the final cut ( I hope) now.
Also did a test rendering of my title bug in 620P over the MVC clip and guess what? The 3D stereoscopic bug is gone. I hope this isn't a fluke. That was a quick test and I decided to leave it in and see if the hour show allows the title to remain. I got real aggressive with the knife yesterday and cut the show way down to an hour. It flows much better now.

The more I work with this the more I zero in on what works and what doesn't. I sure am glad I'm over the crashing trouble. While I'd like to cut my rendering time of typical 12 hours for an hour program ( seems pretty consistent) At least I don't get to 58 minutes and have the system crash. Plus, Friday I edited for 6 hours and the system never aborted or locked up. I think Vegas 10d is pretty sensitive to what is running in the background while trying to work in 3D video and DD5.1 audio.
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post #209 of 315 Old 06-25-2011, 02:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Landis View Post

Results of rendering to 720 60p 1280:

What a world of difference! The loss of resolution was not noticeable but the sharpness and focus more than made up for it. With all the camera dolly moves much of the program was looking out of focus in 1080i rendering. So, detail was mostly lost.

Joe- Have you ever tried to do a separate rendering to 1080 60P ? I know it is not permitted in the Blu-Ray burn templates in Vegas Pro 10d. But it may be possible to generate an MVC file, video only, and then render your 5.1 audio PCM only as a wave file and try to import these to DVDA 5.2 and compile. Then burn the Blu Ray from there. According to Sony Tech Support, DVDA 5.2 will burn the MVC rendered output to BluRay but you just can't use Menus for 3D. I haven't had time to test this but I may after the editing is done. Note- I'm not saying any of this works but it is worth checking out to see how far we get. Also, do Blu-Ray Players even support this 1080 60p for 3D? I know the PS3 claims to do 1080 60p but not sure about this in 3D.


Edit- Just tried and could not find a way quickly to do a 3D MVC in 1080 60p. May not be possible in Vegas. The 720 60P isn't bad at all on my 60 Hz 32" monitor so I'm going to go with that. I haven't tried it on my Sony 90ES yet. Rendering the final cut ( I hope) now.
Also did a test rendering of my title bug in 620P over the MVC clip and guess what? The 3D stereoscopic bug is gone. I hope this isn't a fluke. That was a quick test and I decided to leave it in and see if the hour show allows the title to remain. I got real aggressive with the knife yesterday and cut the show way down to an hour. It flows much better now.

The more I work with this the more I zero in on what works and what doesn't. I sure am glad I'm over the crashing trouble. While I'd like to cut my rendering time of typical 12 hours for an hour program ( seems pretty consistent) At least I don't get to 58 minutes and have the system crash. Plus, Friday I edited for 6 hours and the system never aborted or locked up. I think Vegas 10d is pretty sensitive to what is running in the background while trying to work in 3D video and DD5.1 audio.

You sound like me about a week ago, Don, when I created my first 720p/60 3D Blu-ray. I was so happy to see my motion problems go away, and the resolution looked pretty good, too. I was pretty determined to go with 720p, until I rendered a 25mbps 1080p/24 3D Blu-ray. Then I was hooked! I do believe, though, that if I shot sports a lot (which I don't), or typically had a lot of fast motion in my shots, I'd prefer 720p, too. Vegas does a really good job of converting 1080i/60 to 720p/60.

I asked Petri about what is possible in the 3D Blu-ray standard a couple of weeks ago. Not only is 1080p/60 not supported, neither is 1080p/30. That would be a pretty good fit for these camcorders. It's unfortunate the existing 3D Blu-ray standard isn't more flexible. Fortunately, current 3D TVs don't seem to have any trouble with 1080i/60 3D files, but that does little good for those of us who might want to distribute to standard 3D Blu-ray. It reminds me of the early days of 1080p TV sets. Many of the first ones displayed at 1080p, but they couldn't accept a 1080p input. Current sets have no trouble displaying images at 120hz (60p per eye), but most can't accept a 120hz signal. As I've said before, though, I'm confident we will get there - though not as fast as any of us enthusiasts would like.

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post #210 of 315 Old 06-25-2011, 02:14 PM
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I saw my first passive 3D display today - one of the new LGs at Best Buy. The LG player that they had didn't like my BD-R, so I only saw about a second at the start of each chapter of my Garden 3D video. I was immediately struck by how good the 3D looked, without any trace of ghosting (unless I stood up, above the top of the display), and how incredibly BRIGHT it looked. The 3D images just popped off the screen in a way I've never experienced before. The downside was the stairstepping on diagonal lines. That would drive me crazy over time, but I'm really interested in seeing what might be possible with passive displays in the future. That extra brightness turns the 3D experience into something much more compelling.

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