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post #91 of 1097 Old 07-17-2011, 03:49 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Joseph Clark View Post

I look forward to it. I felt like a total dufus with the Blackbird stabilizer when I took it out for a spin a while back. Steadicam-type devices are not the easiest things in the world to master, and it had been a long time since I'd used the Steadicam JR on a regular basis. Then I got wrapped up in editing and put the BB aside. I know full well, when I get back to it and start to feel comfortable, it's going to be a whole new ballgame in terms of the way I want to shoot. A gyro stabilizer sounds like it has so much potential to create great shots.

Joe, I am rendering a clip shot with the gyro stabilizer. Yeah, I know the gyro stabilizer doesn't shoot.
What format would you like it in? It's rendering as a .m2ts file.
YouTube or Dropbox?

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post #92 of 1097 Old 07-17-2011, 04:52 PM
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Joe, I am rendering a clip shot with the gyro stabilizer. Yeah, I know the gyro stabilizer doesn't shoot.
What format would you like it in? It's rendering as a .m2ts file.
YouTube or Dropbox?

Definitely Dropbox. I hate YouTube for 3D. It destroys the image.

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post #93 of 1097 Old 07-17-2011, 05:09 PM - Thread Starter
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Definitely Dropbox. I hate YouTube for 3D. It destroys the image.

HaHa! As if I didn't know that.
Here it is.
I was standing in the middle of my 20 foot home made boat that was rocking considerably in the choppy water while grabbing the steering wheel often.

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post #94 of 1097 Old 07-17-2011, 07:21 PM
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HaHa! As if I didn't know that.
Here it is.
I was standing in the middle of my 20 foot home made boat that was rocking considerably in the choppy water while grabbing the steering wheel often.

Some of it looks great, especially with all the chop in the water. I can imagine what that would have looked like without any stabilization. And I can see why you'd be excited about the potential. When you zoomed in, it seemed to provide some of the most stable footage. That was surprising. What was causing the occasional lateral instability, where it seemed as if the camera was going off level, then adjusting rapidly back and forth? Was that because the weight was close to maximum?

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post #95 of 1097 Old 07-18-2011, 05:13 AM - Thread Starter
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Some of it looks great, especially with all the chop in the water. I can imagine what that would have looked like without any stabilization. And I can see why you'd be excited about the potential. When you zoomed in, it seemed to provide some of the most stable footage. That was surprising. What was causing the occasional lateral instability, where it seemed as if the camera was going off level, then adjusting rapidly back and forth? Was that because the weight was close to maximum?

Operator error!

The fact that the weight of the unit slightly exceeds the capacity of the stabilizer just means that it requires a more skilled operator with it's full attention.
I'm probably going to replace it with a larger unit simply because I'll probably never give it my full attention. Only my wife gets that.

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post #96 of 1097 Old 07-18-2011, 08:56 AM
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Remarkable! It was better than I expected especially on the zoomed in shot. I've shot lots of film and video on a small boat and the chop in the water was a really good test.

Wish list-

1. I wish you could have shut the gyro down to demonstrate the same shot with it off as a benchmark of performance. If you have such footage of the same camera with the gyro off shot of the same scene can you upload that?

2. Next test can you render your m2ts file in SBS full? This was SBS half and on my passive monitor the resolution got chopped in half again so the image quality, especially on the ship's rigging was completely fuzzed out.

Thanks for going to the trouble of testing out my gyro idea. I've had that on my wish list to do for many years but never had the $ to play with one. You probably could build a rig for a camera operator to retrofit to his camera and make them for the industry. I do think there are helicopter mounts that use gyros, however, and they may have some patent protection yet. All my helicopter work was for private investigative projects for law suits and as such always very low budget so I used a rented optical stabilizer for my shots.

You referenced being too heavy. Which camera system did the file come from. Were you shooting with all the cams shown on that test rig or just one?

Final request- Do you have a picture of the full rig with gyro mounted? I'd like to see what you were using and how you applied it.
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post #97 of 1097 Old 07-18-2011, 11:02 AM
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Frank, thanks for sail ship in 3D!

P.S. Love to see in stereo 3D my favourite american brigantine Black Pearl

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post #98 of 1097 Old 07-18-2011, 12:05 PM
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Quote:
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Operator error!

The fact that the weight of the unit slightly exceeds the capacity of the stabilizer just means that it requires a more skilled operator with it's full attention.
I'm probably going to replace it with a larger unit simply because I'll probably never give it my full attention. Only my wife gets that.

Operator error. That's me with my Blackbird, or with the tiny zoom control on my TD1. With two cups of coffee in me, it takes all my powers of concentration to get a smooth zoom. Ten years ago, all this was a lot easier.

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post #99 of 1097 Old 07-18-2011, 01:42 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Landis View Post

Remarkable! It was better than I expected especially on the zoomed in shot. I've shot lots of film and video on a small boat and the chop in the water was a really good test.

Wish list-

1. I wish you could have shut the gyro down to demonstrate the same shot with it off as a benchmark of performance. If you have such footage of the same camera with the gyro off shot of the same scene can you upload that?

2. Next test can you render your m2ts file in SBS full? This was SBS half and on my passive monitor the resolution got chopped in half again so the image quality, especially on the ship's rigging was completely fuzzed out.

Thanks for going to the trouble of testing out my gyro idea. I've had that on my wish list to do for many years but never had the $ to play with one. You probably could build a rig for a camera operator to retrofit to his camera and make them for the industry. I do think there are helicopter mounts that use gyros, however, and they may have some patent protection yet. All my helicopter work was for private investigative projects for law suits and as such always very low budget so I used a rented optical stabilizer for my shots.

You referenced being too heavy. Which camera system did the file come from. Were you shooting with all the cams shown on that test rig or just one?

Final request- Do you have a picture of the full rig with gyro mounted? I'd like to see what you were using and how you applied it.

Just got back from a long long shoot on the lake.
All I have time for at the moment is this:
GyroCam full WMV format.
Be back later after I recover.

Did IQ's suddenly drop sharply while I was away?
I enjoy 3D in spite of HDMI 1.4!
Full screen only 3D doesn't cut it!
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post #100 of 1097 Old 07-18-2011, 06:58 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Landis View Post

Remarkable! It was better than I expected especially on the zoomed in shot. I've shot lots of film and video on a small boat and the chop in the water was a really good test.

Wish list-

1. I wish you could have shut the gyro down to demonstrate the same shot with it off as a benchmark of performance. If you have such footage of the same camera with the gyro off shot of the same scene can you upload that?

2. Next test can you render your m2ts file in SBS full? This was SBS half and on my passive monitor the resolution got chopped in half again so the image quality, especially on the ship's rigging was completely fuzzed out.

Thanks for going to the trouble of testing out my gyro idea. I've had that on my wish list to do for many years but never had the $ to play with one. You probably could build a rig for a camera operator to retrofit to his camera and make them for the industry. I do think there are helicopter mounts that use gyros, however, and they may have some patent protection yet. All my helicopter work was for private investigative projects for law suits and as such always very low budget so I used a rented optical stabilizer for my shots.

You referenced being too heavy. Which camera system did the file come from. Were you shooting with all the cams shown on that test rig or just one?

Final request- Do you have a picture of the full rig with gyro mounted? I'd like to see what you were using and how you applied it.


Here is the rig I was using:



As to shooting without the gyro stabilizer: Are you kidding me?
I have a hard enough time shooting watchable 3D now you want me to try to make it unwatchable?
Perhaps I'll try it once the tall ships are gone tomorrow.
I shot lots of 3D video of the tall ships today and I edited a video that I really like a lot and I'm currently uploading it and I'll be interested in what you think about it.

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I enjoy 3D in spite of HDMI 1.4!
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post #101 of 1097 Old 07-18-2011, 07:51 PM
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Frank,

The next test I'd like you to perform is the effect on a gyro stabilizer of shooting baby bear cubs in the presence of their mother. I'd especially like to see several 3D closeups of bear cub faces.

Seriously, you're very gracious doing all these experiments, but if we ask too much, just say no. I don't want to read about a Minnesota man falling out of his boat while clutching his 3D cameras.

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post #102 of 1097 Old 07-18-2011, 08:02 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
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Frank,

The next test I'd like you to perform is the effect on a gyro stabilizer of shooting baby bear cubs in the presence of their mother. I'd especially like to see several 3D closeups of bear cub faces.

Seriously, you're very gracious doing all these experiments, but if we ask too much, just say no. I don't want to read about a Minnesota man falling out of his boat while clutching his 3D cameras.

The next time momma bear comes by with her three cubs I'm going to ask her to wait until the gyro spins up to speed.
Speaking of experiments; Yours is a little behind because I haven't quite figured out how to deal with the fact that the GOPro with the Sunex lenses has a much wider field of view then the Canons and way more then the JVC.
Here is a 3D video I shot today with the Gyro stabilizer.
tall ships

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post #103 of 1097 Old 07-18-2011, 08:34 PM
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The next time momma bear comes by with her three cubs I'm going to ask her to wait until the gyro spins up to speed.
Speaking of experiments; Yours is a little behind because I haven't quite figured out how to deal with the fact that the GOPro with the Sunex lenses has a much wider field of view then the Canons and way more then the JVC.
Here is a 3D video I shot today with the Gyro stabilizer.
tall ships

This is very, very cool footage! The 3D is great and the stabilization is working very well. Right now, I'm rendering a 3D Blu-ray iso in Vegas with music that I added via Smartsound in Corel Video Studio. I have to see it as a 3D Blu-ray! If you don't mind, I'd like to post the iso in Dropbox when it's finished. Would you mind?

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post #104 of 1097 Old 07-19-2011, 12:05 AM
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Quote:
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Here is the rig I was using:



As to shooting without the gyro stabilizer: Are you kidding me?
I have a hard enough time shooting watchable 3D now you want me to try to make it unwatchable?
Perhaps I'll try it once the tall ships are gone tomorrow.
I shot lots of 3D video of the tall ships today and I edited a video that I really like a lot and I'm currently uploading it and I'll be interested in what you think about it.

The SBS Full looked much better, especially on the ship's rigging on the Passive monitor.

For a test, to compare, just start rolling your cameras for about 15-20 seconds and then switch on the gyro. Before and after is always a good demonstration.
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post #105 of 1097 Old 07-19-2011, 04:30 AM - Thread Starter
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This is very, very cool footage! The 3D is great and the stabilization is working very well. Right now, I'm rendering a 3D Blu-ray iso in Vegas with music that I added via Smartsound in Corel Video Studio. I have to see it as a 3D Blu-ray! If you don't mind, I'd like to post the iso in Dropbox when it's finished. Would you mind?

I'm glad you liked it and feel free to post the ISO.
If I'd known you were going to do that I would have rendered it as a MVC dual file output so you could work with the full resolution. I still can if you want.

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post #106 of 1097 Old 07-19-2011, 04:38 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Landis View Post

The SBS Full looked much better, especially on the ship's rigging on the Passive monitor.

For a test, to compare, just start rolling your cameras for about 15-20 seconds and then switch on the gyro. Before and after is always a good demonstration.

I just remembered that I have a good example of what you're looking for.
It's when my wife was driving my boat and I had just powered up the stabilizer. I'm guessing you would like a 3D 3840 by 1080 WMV file, right?
Let me know and I'll edit it down and render it for you.

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post #107 of 1097 Old 07-19-2011, 07:02 AM
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I'm guessing you would like a 3D 3840 by 1080 WMV file, right?

Yes, It's because my Passive monitor gets ugly with SBS half resolution source. Nothing to do with your quality. You can render to m2ts if you wish as I can display it in Vegas and play from there, real time using Dynamic Ram preview up to about 2 minutes.
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post #108 of 1097 Old 07-19-2011, 07:13 AM
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I'm glad you liked it and feel free to post the ISO.
If I'd known you were going to do that I would have rendered it as a MVC dual file output so you could work with the full resolution. I still can if you want.

That would be great. Even the half res file looks really good as a 3D Blu-ray. The full res will look tremendous. I'd like to see if you agree with my notion that music "smoothes out" video even more. I don't notice a little unsteadiness in the video if music is distracting me. I've noticed that in the past in films using Steadicams. Add music to stabilized footage and I think it "feels" even smoother.

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post #109 of 1097 Old 07-19-2011, 07:16 AM - Thread Starter
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That would be great. Even the half res file looks really good as a 3D Blu-ray. The full res will look tremendous. I'd like to see if you agree with my notion that music "smoothes out" video even more. I don't notice a little unsteadiness in the video if music is distracting me. I've noticed that in the past in films using Steadicams. Add music to stabilized footage and I think it "feels" even smoother.

Just show me the link.

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post #110 of 1097 Old 07-19-2011, 07:42 AM - Thread Starter
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Every time I try to render the tall ships video as an MVC dual file output, Vegas crashes.
Not sure what I'm going to do about it yet.

Did IQ's suddenly drop sharply while I was away?
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post #111 of 1097 Old 07-19-2011, 07:48 AM - Thread Starter
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O.K. Joe, I'm rendering separate left and right files and will upload both for you.

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post #112 of 1097 Old 07-19-2011, 11:30 AM
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Sorry you're having issues with that, Frank. If you'd prefer, here's the music that Corel Video Studio (via Smartsound) generated for your video. It's a stereo mp3 file that you could drop into the Vegas timeline to create the same kind of iso I did, but from the full HD originals.

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post #113 of 1097 Old 07-19-2011, 11:33 AM - Thread Starter
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O.K. Joe,
Here are the LEFT and RIGHT files of the Tall Ships clip.

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post #114 of 1097 Old 07-19-2011, 11:37 AM
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Cool. Downloading now.

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Looks great as a 3D Blu-ray. I'll post it later. Right now, Dropbox doesn't want to accept it.

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post #116 of 1097 Old 07-19-2011, 03:54 PM
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Here's your Tallships video with a music soundtrack. I didn't give a whole lot of thought to the type of music, but I do think it helps "smooth out" handheld/Steadicam shots a little. Just a theory. I love the 3D in this piece. The wider interaxial makes it so much more effective.

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post #117 of 1097 Old 07-19-2011, 04:36 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joseph Clark View Post

Here's your Tallships video with a music soundtrack. I didn't give a whole lot of thought to the type of music, but I do think it helps "smooth out" handheld/Steadicam shots a little. Just a theory. I love the 3D in this piece. The wider interaxial makes it so much more effective.

Thanks Joe.
My wife and I just watched it and we both thought it looked less smooth then before. This probably is because of the framerate conversion to 24P plus the fact that I shot it at 1/100th sec shutter speed.
Neither one of us liked the "music" much.
I asked her to look for a CD of Beethoven's 7th Symphony to try.
As you know, I'm not a fan of 24P period.

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post #118 of 1097 Old 07-19-2011, 04:45 PM - Thread Starter
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Don, here is the video you requested of the gyro stabilizer starting up.
gyro stabilizer warming up with unskilled camera operator at the controls.

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post #119 of 1097 Old 07-19-2011, 04:49 PM
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I understand what you mean. 60i is smoother than 24p for this sort of thing; I agree completely. As a matter of fact, that's the major source of my problems with some of my JVC footage. When converted to 24p, fast lateral motion stutters badly. Some of the shots are unusable for that reason.

I use classical music for the majority of my Shaw's Garden program. Let me know what you think of my theory when you add a classical music background to the SbS 60i video. That'll be a better test of the theory, since the 24p creates its own set of issues.

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post #120 of 1097 Old 07-19-2011, 05:00 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
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I understand what you mean. 60i is smoother than 24p for this sort of thing; I agree completely. As a matter of fact, that's the major source of my problems with some of my JVC footage. When converted to 24p, fast lateral motion stutters badly. Some of the shots are unusable for that reason.

I use classical music for the majority of my Shaw's Garden program. Let me know what you think of my theory when you add a classical music background to the SbS 60i video. That'll be a better test of the theory, since the 24p creates its own set of issues.

I believe if you shoot with a shutter speed faster then 1/30th and don't apply a gaussian blur filter then almost any lateral motion is a problem with 24P.

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