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When small interaxials just don't cut it!

49K views 1K replies 27 participants last post by  MLXXX 
#1 ·




A nine inch interaxial might seem like a lot but soon I'm going even bigger at 3 feet.
 
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#77 ·
The tall ships are in town this weekend and I hope to get lots of 3D video of them. The weather is not cooperating so far though.

Here is a YouTube version of the video:
with 3 3D cameras[/URL]

It is edited more then the previously uploaded version.
 
#78 ·
Looks good Frank. I can see the two camera rig advantage for a Bryce Canyon project some day.
 
#79 ·
I just got notified that my gyro stabilizer will arrive before noon tomorrow.


I'll be out on the boat by the afternoon, weather permitting, shooting 3D video of the tall ships with it.

Hopefully I can find someone to drive my boat. I find it quite difficult to be the driver and cameraman simultaneously, especially in rough seas.
 
#80 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joseph Clark
Here's what might settle some "debate" (if there is any
) about the differences in how your 3 systems perform, and specifically about the relative benefit of a wider IA distance. Put them on tripods and shoot things with settings as close as possible on all three. Set them up so that there are objects near, medium and far away. After that, throw in a shot with the Canons at their widest wide angle setting. I think I know the enhancement that's going to provide to the subject matter. I suspect it will increase the dramatic impact, just as wide angle shots have the capability of doing in 2D filmmaking. But I could be wrong. That's why I'm so keen on seeing such a comparison. If the variables are the same except for the interaxial distance, then we may be able to draw some more solid conclusions about its effect. The wide angle impact should make such a comparison even more revealing.


Almost forgot. It would be helpful to see the effect of telephoto, just like wide angle settings. That is, zoom in to the same telephoto framing with the JVC and the Canons, and we can look for differences in the sense of depth at the zoomed in range. Then, throw in a shot of the Canons at their max telephoto range.


See what I did there? I planned your weekend for you.
I would do as you ask except for the fact that the GoPro 3D Hero is not capable of doing any of it.


Care to revise the plan?
 
#81 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank
I would do as you ask except for the fact that the GoPro 3D Hero is not capable of doing any of it.


Care to revise the plan?
Sure. I know the GoPro can't zoom, so the only fair way is to use it as the control camera. That is, set it up and then frame the others as close as possible to the GoPro. The idea is to remove the other variables, so that the difference in interaxial distance is the main one we'll be seeing. It won't be exact, to be sure, but it should be revealing. The other zoom tests should show the differences between the JVC and the dual Canon rig. One thing I remember from your earlier tests was the flattening effect the JVC had on objects it was zoomed in on. But one thing I'd really like to see is a comparison shot of the Canon and the JVC in the same place, and with both zoomed out as far as possible. One drawback of consumer cameras in general is that they don't go very wide. The JVC is even more restricted than typical 2D consumer video cameras when shooting in 3D mode (about a 42mm equivalent). What I'm curious about is the possible added impact the Canons' greater wide angle zoom might give the 3D image.
 
#82 ·
Joe- When I need to get good z axis depth from my TD10 on a distant shot I zoom in and the dept stereo begins to appear ( within limits) But the advantage I am seeing with Franks tests are that his wide IA combined with wide angle gives much better z axis stage size and can produce depth at distances so that the wide angles give good depth that the close IA like the JVC and Sony don't get. Frank has me convinced that to shoot good stereo 3D of large scenes like mountain ranges and places like Bryce Canyon, the need for both wide angle and depth, the only way is with the wide IA. But if I want to shoot a distance of 150 ft. to a stage of dancers, zooming in can achieve a good enough stereo effect for most people.


I don't have one at full wide angle of this scene but here is a difference between my opening shot which was about 20% zoomed in and the second one at full 10x zoom. red/cyan glasses to view the depth of near middle and far objects.

 
#83 ·
I think I know what I'm going to see if Frank performs those tests, but I'd like to have a few controlled clips to demonstrate the differences. Frank's in the fairly unique position of having those three systems at his disposal.


I've watched Frank's clips over the last several months, and the wider IA and the wider wide angle shots create 3D with a special look and feel. I've likened it to the difference I felt watching my JVC RS40 for the first time. I've been a CRT, DLP and LCD owner, but the RS40 was my first experience with a great LCoS projector. The tremendous native contrast ratio felt so very "right" to me. I was in love.
It's pretty much the way I feel about the JVC TD1, in terms of its picture quality, if not its ability to create the most dramatic 3D I've ever seen. The TD1 has the ability to capture images with tremendous contrast, detail and deep, rich color. In that sense, it's the perfect match for my JVC RS40. I hope JVC comes out with a camera next year that has a wider IA, a broader zoom range and a wider wide angle lens. If they threw in a servo zoom with LANC, I'd be in 3D heaven.
 
#84 ·
Joe, I was working on setting up your test when the UPS truck showed up with my gyro stabilizer. Guess which I considered more important.


I spent the rest of the day out on Lake Superior testing it out.

I'll be getting back to your test tomorrow or the next day.
 
#85 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank
Joe, I was working on setting up your test when the UPS truck showed up with my gyro stabilizer. Guess which I considered more important.


I spent the rest of the day out on Lake Superior testing it out.

I'll be getting back to your test tomorrow or the next day.
Thanks for doing the test, but I'm just as interested in the gyro.
Looking forward to hearing all about it.
 
#86 ·
The people who make the Blackbird stabilizer have been working on a gyro device for over 3 years. They came up with the Blackbird on their way to a full blown gyro stabilizer. I haven't heard how close they are to achieving it.
 
#87 ·
Here is my test setup for Joe.

In order to set the JVC and Canon's framing as close as possible to the GoPro, I have to remove the right GoPro camera from the housing without moving the left camera, connect the composite video out of the left camera to the tiny LCD monitor and set the other cameras to match as close as possible.
 
#89 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joseph Clark /forum/post/20705648


Wow. That's a great configuration to do the test. Can't wait to see the results!!!


How did it go with the gyro?

How did it go with the gyro?

Good and not so good!

I think I was a little overambitious as a first time user...


Trying to drive my boat around a lot of traffic, avoid collisions and hold the cameras plus stabilizer was a little too much for me. I'm still recovering.

The potential of this thing is fantastic. I might have to exchange it for a larger one as it's capacity is right at it's limit.

I'll upload some sample videos for you to look at soon.
 
#90 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank /forum/post/20705724


How did it go with the gyro?

Good and not so good!

I think I was a little overambitious as a first time user...


Trying to drive my boat around a lot of traffic, avoid collisions and hold the cameras plus stabilizer was a little too much for me. I'm still recovering.

The potential of this thing is fantastic. I might have to exchange it for a larger one as it's capacity is right at it's limit.

I'll upload some sample videos for you to look at soon.

I look forward to it. I felt like a total dufus with the Blackbird stabilizer when I took it out for a spin a while back. Steadicam-type devices are not the easiest things in the world to master, and it had been a long time since I'd used the Steadicam JR on a regular basis. Then I got wrapped up in editing and put the BB aside. I know full well, when I get back to it and start to feel comfortable, it's going to be a whole new ballgame in terms of the way I want to shoot.
A gyro stabilizer sounds like it has so much potential to create great shots.
 
#91 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joseph Clark /forum/post/20706433


I look forward to it. I felt like a total dufus with the Blackbird stabilizer when I took it out for a spin a while back. Steadicam-type devices are not the easiest things in the world to master, and it had been a long time since I'd used the Steadicam JR on a regular basis. Then I got wrapped up in editing and put the BB aside. I know full well, when I get back to it and start to feel comfortable, it's going to be a whole new ballgame in terms of the way I want to shoot.
A gyro stabilizer sounds like it has so much potential to create great shots.

Joe, I am rendering a clip shot with the gyro stabilizer. Yeah, I know the gyro stabilizer doesn't shoot.


What format would you like it in? It's rendering as a .m2ts file.

YouTube or Dropbox?
 
#92 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank /forum/post/20706813


Joe, I am rendering a clip shot with the gyro stabilizer. Yeah, I know the gyro stabilizer doesn't shoot.


What format would you like it in? It's rendering as a .m2ts file.

YouTube or Dropbox?

Definitely Dropbox. I hate YouTube for 3D. It destroys the image.
 
#93 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joseph Clark /forum/post/20707030


Definitely Dropbox. I hate YouTube for 3D. It destroys the image.

HaHa! As if I didn't know that.

Here it is.

I was standing in the middle of my 20 foot home made boat that was rocking considerably in the choppy water while grabbing the steering wheel often.
 
#94 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank /forum/post/20707091


HaHa! As if I didn't know that.

Here it is.

I was standing in the middle of my 20 foot home made boat that was rocking considerably in the choppy water while grabbing the steering wheel often.

Some of it looks great, especially with all the chop in the water. I can imagine what that would have looked like without any stabilization. And I can see why you'd be excited about the potential. When you zoomed in, it seemed to provide some of the most stable footage. That was surprising. What was causing the occasional lateral instability, where it seemed as if the camera was going off level, then adjusting rapidly back and forth? Was that because the weight was close to maximum?
 
#95 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joseph Clark /forum/post/20707503


Some of it looks great, especially with all the chop in the water. I can imagine what that would have looked like without any stabilization. And I can see why you'd be excited about the potential. When you zoomed in, it seemed to provide some of the most stable footage. That was surprising. What was causing the occasional lateral instability, where it seemed as if the camera was going off level, then adjusting rapidly back and forth? Was that because the weight was close to maximum?
Operator error!


The fact that the weight of the unit slightly exceeds the capacity of the stabilizer just means that it requires a more skilled operator with it's full attention.


I'm probably going to replace it with a larger unit simply because I'll probably never give it my full attention. Only my wife gets that.
 
#96 ·
Remarkable! It was better than I expected especially on the zoomed in shot. I've shot lots of film and video on a small boat and the chop in the water was a really good test.


Wish list-


1. I wish you could have shut the gyro down to demonstrate the same shot with it off as a benchmark of performance. If you have such footage of the same camera with the gyro off shot of the same scene can you upload that?


2. Next test can you render your m2ts file in SBS full? This was SBS half and on my passive monitor the resolution got chopped in half again so the image quality, especially on the ship's rigging was completely fuzzed out.


Thanks for going to the trouble of testing out my gyro idea. I've had that on my wish list to do for many years but never had the $ to play with one. You probably could build a rig for a camera operator to retrofit to his camera and make them for the industry. I do think there are helicopter mounts that use gyros, however, and they may have some patent protection yet. All my helicopter work was for private investigative projects for law suits and as such always very low budget so I used a rented optical stabilizer for my shots.


You referenced being too heavy. Which camera system did the file come from. Were you shooting with all the cams shown on that test rig or just one?


Final request- Do you have a picture of the full rig with gyro mounted? I'd like to see what you were using and how you applied it.
 
#98 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank /forum/post/20708472

Operator error!


The fact that the weight of the unit slightly exceeds the capacity of the stabilizer just means that it requires a more skilled operator with it's full attention.


I'm probably going to replace it with a larger unit simply because I'll probably never give it my full attention. Only my wife gets that.
Operator error. That's me with my Blackbird, or with the tiny zoom control on my TD1. With two cups of coffee in me, it takes all my powers of concentration to get a smooth zoom. Ten years ago, all this was a lot easier.
 
#99 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Landis /forum/post/20709196


Remarkable! It was better than I expected especially on the zoomed in shot. I've shot lots of film and video on a small boat and the chop in the water was a really good test.


Wish list-


1. I wish you could have shut the gyro down to demonstrate the same shot with it off as a benchmark of performance. If you have such footage of the same camera with the gyro off shot of the same scene can you upload that?


2. Next test can you render your m2ts file in SBS full? This was SBS half and on my passive monitor the resolution got chopped in half again so the image quality, especially on the ship's rigging was completely fuzzed out.


Thanks for going to the trouble of testing out my gyro idea. I've had that on my wish list to do for many years but never had the $ to play with one. You probably could build a rig for a camera operator to retrofit to his camera and make them for the industry. I do think there are helicopter mounts that use gyros, however, and they may have some patent protection yet. All my helicopter work was for private investigative projects for law suits and as such always very low budget so I used a rented optical stabilizer for my shots.


You referenced being too heavy. Which camera system did the file come from. Were you shooting with all the cams shown on that test rig or just one?


Final request- Do you have a picture of the full rig with gyro mounted? I'd like to see what you were using and how you applied it.

Just got back from a long long shoot on the lake.

All I have time for at the moment is this:
GyroCam full WMV format.

Be back later after I recover.
 
#100 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Landis /forum/post/20709196


Remarkable! It was better than I expected especially on the zoomed in shot. I've shot lots of film and video on a small boat and the chop in the water was a really good test.


Wish list-


1. I wish you could have shut the gyro down to demonstrate the same shot with it off as a benchmark of performance. If you have such footage of the same camera with the gyro off shot of the same scene can you upload that?


2. Next test can you render your m2ts file in SBS full? This was SBS half and on my passive monitor the resolution got chopped in half again so the image quality, especially on the ship's rigging was completely fuzzed out.


Thanks for going to the trouble of testing out my gyro idea. I've had that on my wish list to do for many years but never had the $ to play with one. You probably could build a rig for a camera operator to retrofit to his camera and make them for the industry. I do think there are helicopter mounts that use gyros, however, and they may have some patent protection yet. All my helicopter work was for private investigative projects for law suits and as such always very low budget so I used a rented optical stabilizer for my shots.


You referenced being too heavy. Which camera system did the file come from. Were you shooting with all the cams shown on that test rig or just one?


Final request- Do you have a picture of the full rig with gyro mounted? I'd like to see what you were using and how you applied it.
Here is the rig I was using:



As to shooting without the gyro stabilizer: Are you kidding me?


I have a hard enough time shooting watchable 3D now you want me to try to make it unwatchable?


Perhaps I'll try it once the tall ships are gone tomorrow.

I shot lots of 3D video of the tall ships today and I edited a video that I really like a lot and I'm currently uploading it and I'll be interested in what you think about it.
 
#101 ·
Frank,


The next test I'd like you to perform is the effect on a gyro stabilizer of shooting baby bear cubs in the presence of their mother. I'd especially like to see several 3D closeups of bear cub faces.



Seriously, you're very gracious doing all these experiments, but if we ask too much, just say no. I don't want to read about a Minnesota man falling out of his boat while clutching his 3D cameras.
 
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