When small interaxials just don't cut it! - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 1097 Old 06-07-2011, 07:16 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
Frank's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Dept. of Offense
Posts: 5,194
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 14


A nine inch interaxial might seem like a lot but soon I'm going even bigger at 3 feet.

Did IQ's suddenly drop sharply while I was away?
I enjoy 3D in spite of HDMI 1.4!
Full screen only 3D doesn't cut it!
Frank is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 1097 Old 06-07-2011, 08:20 AM
AVS Club Gold
 
Don Landis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Posts: 10,759
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 37 Post(s)
Liked: 106
So, when is your trip to the Grand Canyon?
Don Landis is online now  
post #3 of 1097 Old 06-07-2011, 08:22 AM
AVS Special Member
 
pteittinen's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Finland
Posts: 3,790
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank View Post

A nine inch interaxial might seem like a lot but soon I'm going even bigger at 3 feet.

I remember reading someone shot a space shuttle launch with an interaxial of several hundred feet

Please, feel free to call me by my first name, Petri.
pteittinen is offline  
post #4 of 1097 Old 06-07-2011, 10:08 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
Frank's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Dept. of Offense
Posts: 5,194
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by pteittinen View Post

I remember reading someone shot a space shuttle launch with an interaxial of several hundred feet

That seems like a lot, even to me.
I'm finding that my 9 inch IA is way too little when trying to shoot 3D videos of an eagles nest from several hundred yards away at max zoom.
Three feet might do it.

Did IQ's suddenly drop sharply while I was away?
I enjoy 3D in spite of HDMI 1.4!
Full screen only 3D doesn't cut it!
Frank is offline  
post #5 of 1097 Old 06-07-2011, 01:52 PM
AVS Special Member
 
bravia3D's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Japan
Posts: 1,187
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 28
That is insane, doe's it give amazing depth?

3D items I own:

Sony 46" LX900 active 3D set

Sony HMZ-T3 (Cushion pads and light blocker mod)

LG LW6500 passive 3D set

PS3 & PS4

Sony BDP-S570 BD3D player

JVC-GS-TD1 (with Cyclopital base extender)

Fujifilm W3

Sony Alpha 55 (for 3D panoramic photos)

Quadcopter + Zenmuse and GoPro Hero 3 (Filming...

bravia3D is offline  
post #6 of 1097 Old 06-07-2011, 02:53 PM
AVS Club Gold
 
Don Landis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Posts: 10,759
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 37 Post(s)
Liked: 106
Frank- Have you begun to use UV filters to reduce haze for those distance shots? I would. It will improve your contrast. I have one on order for my TD10.
Don Landis is online now  
post #7 of 1097 Old 06-07-2011, 04:07 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
Frank's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Dept. of Offense
Posts: 5,194
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Landis View Post

Frank- Have you begun to use UV filters to reduce haze for those distance shots? I would. It will improve your contrast. I have one on order for my TD10.

I have not but I appreciate you mentioning it and I will order some today.

Did IQ's suddenly drop sharply while I was away?
I enjoy 3D in spite of HDMI 1.4!
Full screen only 3D doesn't cut it!
Frank is offline  
post #8 of 1097 Old 06-08-2011, 05:18 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
Frank's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Dept. of Offense
Posts: 5,194
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 14
I ordered material today for my new variable interaxial rig which will allow up to a 6 foot IA.
Now I'm in the market for a couple of Pro camcorders with Genlock and a wide zoom range and the ability to sync the zoom. I would like to be able to access as many controls as possible remotely.

Did IQ's suddenly drop sharply while I was away?
I enjoy 3D in spite of HDMI 1.4!
Full screen only 3D doesn't cut it!
Frank is offline  
post #9 of 1097 Old 06-08-2011, 10:05 PM
AVS Club Gold
 
Don Landis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Posts: 10,759
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 37 Post(s)
Liked: 106
Sounds like you are advancing into the world of Broadcast Professional! Better get used to adding a decimal point or two to your budget. I'd love to sell you two of my D30WS rigs but at 26 pounds per camera may be a bit much. Besides they are not HD.

I got my UV filter and rubber lens hood for my TD10 late in the day and I got a chance to do a quick test shoot at a distance of about 250 ft and it does a nice job of sharpening up the detail at that distance.

IA philosophy- John Cameron showed his custom designed cameras he used in Avatar and Sanctum. They looked to be about 2" IA.

For your big camera system- Have you considered Red camera rig with a Technica over through bench?

I'm hoping to see your results shooting distances of several miles of mountain ranges. I'm planning to do a shoot in the Bryce Canyon of Southern Utah, hopefully next Spring. Been there once before and it is the most amazing visual to see anywhere on the planet. Would only need to capture distances of about 2-3 miles.
Don Landis is online now  
post #10 of 1097 Old 06-09-2011, 02:07 AM
AVS Special Member
 
pteittinen's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Finland
Posts: 3,790
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank View Post
the ability to sync the zoom.
No need for that; you're not supposed to use the zoom in 3D anyways.

Please, feel free to call me by my first name, Petri.
pteittinen is offline  
post #11 of 1097 Old 06-09-2011, 05:09 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
Frank's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Dept. of Offense
Posts: 5,194
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by pteittinen View Post
No need for that; you're not supposed to use the zoom in 3D anyways.
And I'm not supposed to exceed the speed limit either,etc.
I make up my own rules and according to my rules zooming in 3D is not only O.K., it's required.
I've already broken every stereoscopic 3D rule in the book many times over and I haven't put anyone in the hospital yet. Of course, that could change.

Did IQ's suddenly drop sharply while I was away?
I enjoy 3D in spite of HDMI 1.4!
Full screen only 3D doesn't cut it!
Frank is offline  
post #12 of 1097 Old 06-09-2011, 05:54 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
Frank's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Dept. of Offense
Posts: 5,194
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Landis View Post

For your big camera system- Have you considered Red camera rig with a Technica over through bench?
No, I haven't. I like to build as much as I can cause it's part of the fun.
Synced long range zoom is most important as I am following wildlife at constantly changing distances.
If I could adapt some synced lenses to the Red cameras, they would be a good alternative.
Quote:
I'm hoping to see your results shooting distances of several miles of mountain ranges. I'm planning to do a shoot in the Bryce Canyon of Southern Utah, hopefully next Spring. Been there once before and it is the most amazing visual to see anywhere on the planet. Would only need to capture distances of about 2-3 miles.
What are you going to shoot with?

Did IQ's suddenly drop sharply while I was away?
I enjoy 3D in spite of HDMI 1.4!
Full screen only 3D doesn't cut it!
Frank is offline  
post #13 of 1097 Old 06-09-2011, 07:16 AM
AVS Club Gold
 
Don Landis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Posts: 10,759
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 37 Post(s)
Liked: 106
Right now I'm working on becoming an expert shooter with the TD10. The whole experimenting I'm doing with the filters is for the purpose of the long range shooting in that area of the country. Bench rigs are not compact enough for me. I need to be able to carry everything on me for long hikes. My days of packing the big stuff are long over.

I do believe the Technica3D people have a sync system that locks the twin Red lenses in every setting, including variable speed zoom. You should talk to their engineer. I spoke to a guy named Olge, who could be your twin brother, BTW When I first saw him at the booth I thought it was you! Really nice guy and loves to discuss this stuff from a design POV.

Quote:
No need for that; you're not supposed to use the zoom in 3D anyways.
Sounds like a professor at film school to me. Yeah, right, well Frank and I make the rules, I see you just teach them.
Variable speed zoom is OK, shaky-cam looses it! Rack focus is very difficult but if done right can work too.

PS- the only shaky-cam production in 3D I have seen to date is in the movie Drive Angry. They do a pretty good job of holding the 3D together with shaky-cam.
Don Landis is online now  
post #14 of 1097 Old 06-09-2011, 07:47 AM
AVS Special Member
 
TrickMcKaha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,016
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 13
Even if you do not change the zoom level during the scene, you want close sync so you always have both camera's zoom at matching levels. Frank - are you building your rig to change the interaxial distance automatically as you zoom?
TrickMcKaha is offline  
post #15 of 1097 Old 06-09-2011, 08:20 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
Frank's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Dept. of Offense
Posts: 5,194
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by TrickMcKaha View Post
Even if you do not change the zoom level during the scene, you want close sync so you always have both camera's zoom at matching levels. Frank - are you building your rig to change the interaxial distance automatically as you zoom?
Excellent question!
I've discussed it with my programmer and I am going to try it by using a laser range finder with computer interface to automatically select the correct ratio of IA servo motor movement versus zoom factor.
Will take a lot of trial and error to get it close but will be fun and educational.

Did IQ's suddenly drop sharply while I was away?
I enjoy 3D in spite of HDMI 1.4!
Full screen only 3D doesn't cut it!
Frank is offline  
post #16 of 1097 Old 06-09-2011, 08:31 AM
AVS Club Gold
 
Don Landis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Posts: 10,759
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 37 Post(s)
Liked: 106
Frank- that is what the 3D stereographic analyzer does. When I saw it in operation, as we adjusted the Zoom everything on the bench moved. Very impressive to watch from a mechanical perspective. Unlike you suggested, they use analysis of the two images to generate the correct alignment, reducing and maintaining error to zero.
Don Landis is online now  
post #17 of 1097 Old 06-09-2011, 08:38 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
Frank's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Dept. of Offense
Posts: 5,194
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Landis View Post

Frank- that is what the 3D stereographic analyzer does. When I saw it in operation, as we adjusted the Zoom everything on the bench moved. Very impressive to watch from a mechanical perspective. Unlike you suggested, they use analysis of the two images to generate the correct alignment, reducing and maintaining error to zero.

Cool.
I don't really care how others do it as figuring out my own method is more fun for me.
P.S. Besides, their method probably follows "the rules"

Did IQ's suddenly drop sharply while I was away?
I enjoy 3D in spite of HDMI 1.4!
Full screen only 3D doesn't cut it!
Frank is offline  
post #18 of 1097 Old 06-09-2011, 09:09 AM
AVS Club Gold
 
Don Landis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Posts: 10,759
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 37 Post(s)
Liked: 106
Yes, but I gather they wrote most of them. :G
Don Landis is online now  
post #19 of 1097 Old 06-09-2011, 09:15 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
Frank's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Dept. of Offense
Posts: 5,194
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Landis View Post


I'm hoping to see your results shooting distances of several miles of mountain ranges. I'm planning to do a shoot in the Bryce Canyon of Southern Utah, hopefully next Spring. Been there once before and it is the most amazing visual to see anywhere on the planet. Would only need to capture distances of about 2-3 miles.

Here is what I'm thinking of doing for shooting in a place like Bryce Canyon.
Two camcorders mounted on small servo controlled pan/tilt heads on
small ligtweight tripods. Distance between units determined by distance to subject. Both carefully leveled of course.
Both connected via cable to lightweight laptop which is used to sync
and control the camera functions and pan/tilt heads while at the same
time multiplex the video from both cameras and display it in 3D.
Entire apparatus including extra batteries could be put in backpack.

Did IQ's suddenly drop sharply while I was away?
I enjoy 3D in spite of HDMI 1.4!
Full screen only 3D doesn't cut it!
Frank is offline  
post #20 of 1097 Old 06-09-2011, 10:29 AM
AVS Club Gold
 
Don Landis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Posts: 10,759
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 37 Post(s)
Liked: 106
Imagine this in 3D:
http://www.frequency.com/video/natur...non-eos/307353

Won't be fighting crowds here but I will be fighting gravity
Don Landis is online now  
post #21 of 1097 Old 06-09-2011, 11:02 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
Frank's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Dept. of Offense
Posts: 5,194
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Landis View Post

Imagine this in 3D:
http://www.frequency.com/video/natur...non-eos/307353

Won't be fighting crowds here but I will be fighting gravity

My daughter and son and law would love to go there and I'm considering coming up with a 3D apparatus as I described earlier for them to use.
I will of course be subsidizing the trip.

Did IQ's suddenly drop sharply while I was away?
I enjoy 3D in spite of HDMI 1.4!
Full screen only 3D doesn't cut it!
Frank is offline  
post #22 of 1097 Old 06-09-2011, 04:28 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
Frank's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Dept. of Offense
Posts: 5,194
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 14
I ordered a Vuzix Wrap 920 with the VGA interface to monitor the 3D output of the dual cameras. I'll be using my Iphone to control the camera functions.

Did IQ's suddenly drop sharply while I was away?
I enjoy 3D in spite of HDMI 1.4!
Full screen only 3D doesn't cut it!
Frank is offline  
post #23 of 1097 Old 06-11-2011, 12:04 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
Frank's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Dept. of Offense
Posts: 5,194
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 14
I'm sitting here in my office with my Samsung 3D glasses on watching the live 3D feed from this thing which is sitting on a table on my deck down by my shore.

Even though the distance between the cameras is 9 inches, it needs to be a lot more when looking at the video across the inlet.
Time to start building a new rail.

Did IQ's suddenly drop sharply while I was away?
I enjoy 3D in spite of HDMI 1.4!
Full screen only 3D doesn't cut it!
Frank is offline  
post #24 of 1097 Old 06-12-2011, 01:24 PM
AVS Special Member
 
TrickMcKaha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,016
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 13
OK, but what I would do is hand my HD Hero 3D helmet to the kids and ask them to wear it all day.
TrickMcKaha is offline  
post #25 of 1097 Old 06-12-2011, 01:27 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
Frank's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Dept. of Offense
Posts: 5,194
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by TrickMcKaha View Post

OK, but what I would do is hand my HD Hero 3D helmet to the kids and ask them to wear it all day.

Speaking of headache inducing 3D........

Did IQ's suddenly drop sharply while I was away?
I enjoy 3D in spite of HDMI 1.4!
Full screen only 3D doesn't cut it!
Frank is offline  
post #26 of 1097 Old 06-13-2011, 06:52 AM
AVS Special Member
 
TrickMcKaha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,016
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 13
Oh yeh, it would take a steady head and a lot of editing.
TrickMcKaha is offline  
post #27 of 1097 Old 06-13-2011, 08:50 AM
AVS Club Gold
 
Don Landis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Posts: 10,759
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 37 Post(s)
Liked: 106
I recently shot an experiment in "shaky cam" by riding in an off road vehicle over rough terrain. I really wanted to capture the feel of the ride in this case. To the few I showed this to it worked but I'm still working with the edits. One trick is to allow the motion blur to happen if it can also work for the 3D. Lots of compromise here. I did find the need to do quite a bit of slomo which helps smooth out the extreme shake. Vegas does a good job with this. Unfortunately the image stabilizer in Vegas doesn't work for 3D clips, only 2D.

Here's one for you Frank- Ever thought of building a gyroscope steadycam for the smaller camcorders? I think this would work and be much more effective than the steadycam juniors and the glide cams. Steadycams, were really designed and built for heavier cameras, then made smaller for smaller cameras. Years ago I talked to the people who built the steadycam and they laughed at the idea of a gyroscope because it would be way too big and heavy for a 25 pound camcorder. Maybe this idea is better suited for a 3 pound camcorder or how about a Bloggie 3D?
Don Landis is online now  
post #28 of 1097 Old 06-22-2011, 11:49 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
Frank's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Dept. of Offense
Posts: 5,194
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Landis View Post


Here's one for you Frank- Ever thought of building a gyroscope steadycam for the smaller camcorders? I think this would work and be much more effective than the steadycam juniors and the glide cams. Steadycams, were really designed and built for heavier cameras, then made smaller for smaller cameras. Years ago I talked to the people who built the steadycam and they laughed at the idea of a gyroscope because it would be way too big and heavy for a 25 pound camcorder. Maybe this idea is better suited for a 3 pound camcorder or how about a Bloggie 3D?

No need to build one since these already exist for a "reasonable price".
http://www.ken-lab.com/mm5/merchant....tegory_Code=GK

I built a six foot long portable bench for variable IA up to five and a half feet.
Haven't been able to do much testing yet but hopefully this weekend.
I ordered two Canon 5D mark 2's and pocket wizards and am planning on taking some very high quality 3D pictures and even 3D video since I found a way to get them pretty close in sync.

Did IQ's suddenly drop sharply while I was away?
I enjoy 3D in spite of HDMI 1.4!
Full screen only 3D doesn't cut it!
Frank is offline  
post #29 of 1097 Old 06-24-2011, 01:50 AM
AVS Club Gold
 
Don Landis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Posts: 10,759
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 37 Post(s)
Liked: 106
I'm not sure that was what I had in mind Frank. I'll have to study it more.

On bench wide IA:

I just reviewed my video of a night performance of Fireworks laser and water light show. While I shot it in 3D the distances were too great to see any 3D effect. I had to shoot in full wide angle as well. There was one laser effect in the distance I zoomed in on and this did show some minor 3D z axis stereo. I may as well have shot it with 2D. Disappointing to say the least. I have never been able to capture the true effect of a show of this type with any type camera. But I haven't tried a bench 3D rig yet.

So here's a challenge for your bench rig: Haul it to your local July 4th Fireworks show and shoot it. It should be quite a challenge and a real true testimonial for your hypothesis on super wide IA for those distance 3D shoots.
Don Landis is online now  
post #30 of 1097 Old 06-24-2011, 04:26 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
Frank's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Dept. of Offense
Posts: 5,194
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Landis View Post

I'm not sure that was what I had in mind Frank. I'll have to study it more.

On bench wide IA:

I just reviewed my video of a night performance of Fireworks laser and water light show. While I shot it in 3D the distances were too great to see any 3D effect. I had to shoot in full wide angle as well. There was one laser effect in the distance I zoomed in on and this did show some minor 3D z axis stereo. I may as well have shot it with 2D. Disappointing to say the least. I have never been able to capture the true effect of a show of this type with any type camera. But I haven't tried a bench 3D rig yet.

So here's a challenge for your bench rig: Haul it to your local July 4th Fireworks show and shoot it. It should be quite a challenge and a real true testimonial for your hypothesis on super wide IA for those distance 3D shoots.

I gladly accept the challenge!
I'll have to consult with my Canon 5D expert for the best settings to use.
I might have up to six cameras mounted on the bench at the same!

Did IQ's suddenly drop sharply while I was away?
I enjoy 3D in spite of HDMI 1.4!
Full screen only 3D doesn't cut it!
Frank is offline  
Reply 3D Source Components

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off