Traveling with the TD10: Tips, Assessments, Videos - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 31 Old 06-30-2011, 02:54 AM - Thread Starter
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I am off on a month long business trip, and am taking the opportunity to shoot 3D videos with the Sony TD10. I have to travel light, so I am not taking along a big computer with an 8-core processor, but I also want to edit and distribute the videos while in the field. And no tripod, steadicam, external lights, audio devices.

The videos I will shoot will be of people doing things in normal settings in foreign places. The aim is to produce interesting videos in mundane but exotic locales. So far: a golf driving range and a shopping mall in Hong Kong. It is not a great challenge to make an interesting video on a Hawaiian beach or in Disneyworld (although it is, of course, hard to make a really good video). And I am not interested in static videos of flowers. It is a challenge to make an interesting video where I go.

My computer: a dual-core Atom netbook!

Software: Aunsoft Final Mate for no-render edits and merges of the TD10 files for 2D. It takes the mts (mvc) files that are 3D and treats them like 2D. They then can be uploaded to Vimeo or Youtube as regular 2D videos, no conversion.

and, I downloaded a free trial version of Sony Vegas Movie Studio 11 Platinum for 3D editing.

First task: how does the TD10 perform indoors and outside at night? It's realtively easy to make impressive videos in bright light (watching overexposure) with any modern camera; can you do effective 3D in dim light with this camera?

So, first a test video of a night-time fish dinner expedition in Hong Kong: pick your live fish from tanks, have it prepared eat it, then enjoy walking around the area at night.

Shot in 3D; here is the 2D version of this test night, indoor video:

http://www.vimeo.com/25805291

Verdict so far: good auto WB (better than my Panasonic TM900, but for that I can manually set WB) - you can rely on getting the colors right in all sorts of lighting conditions. and, low-light performance seems ok - no big loss in resolution, not a lot of noise, and not a lot of smearing to artificially reduce noise (like on the Sony P&S cameras that take good video in bright light).

The 2D video was made using Final Mate, no problem on the net book. No need to convert from the 3D to 2D - that is the great advantage of the mvc format.

How about the 3D version? Well, it is rendering now in Vegas (Platinum is basically Vegas Pro lite). The 8-minute video will take 3 hours (according to the program), and I can still do other things on the computer, like type this post. I can play the video in anaglyph mode from the timeline, no problem. I have not tried fancy transitions, a music track, or 3D titles, though.

The 3D Youtube version is here:

http://youtu.be/MrB_6APr4QA?hd=1

Took 3 hours 10 minutes to render to a 1/2-frame sbs 108060i video on the netbook using the highest quality. No hitches, although I see a few clips that need editing.
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post #2 of 31 Old 06-30-2011, 09:17 AM
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Mark- It has been my experience so far that the low light focus accuracy of the TD10 is not much better than other modern camcorders in 2D. But, once you get it locked it will hold pretty good. It's why I assigned my priority manual button to the focus control so if I am in a low light situation, I can hit the button and quickly adjust the knob to what I want the camera to focus on in distance without seeing (low light or no light) what I expect will happen. If I don't take this manual precaution, my camera will hunt for the right focus for a few seconds as it is attempting to auto focus in the dark. I leave the exposure left to auto since we found that in the past experiments it affected the shutter speed before the video preamp ( a noise generator in max gain). Consequently the TD10 has excellent low noise blacks in low light.

My travel tips for the TD10
When traveling the most important accessory I have for the TD10 is a light weight strap to hang it around my neck. I actually like those convention badge holder straps with the snaps. First time you fumble and drop your camcorder to the ground you'll wish you had added this. This is the first Sony camcorder I bought that did not include one in the package. Even the Bloggie3D had a wrist strap!

Second thing to have are extra batteries I have one of the 100 series but I don't recommend them. They take way too long to recharge to full capacity. The 70's seem the best and I carry 3 of those. I also have 3 of the little BC-TRV chargers and a 3 outlet adapter to use in the hotel room. You will also need the AC plug adapters but I'm sure you are aware or that. My smallest camera bag holds the TD10, the Hoodman, 3 spare batteries, a ziplock plastic bag for rain emergencies, and my shotgun mic, a spare SD card. My monopod and smallest tripod can attach to my belt. I also have a couple of those tiny $10 tripods with telescoping legs that I carry in my pocket. Rarely use them except for self portraits and video.

The TD10 has a great feature that allows you to attach a portable USB hard drive. I have two of these collected over the years and both are formated to FAT32. It's much nicer on a busy day to get back to the hotel and plug that in and dump all your video to the hard drive so the next day your camcorder is empty and ready for a full day of shooting. The camcorder needs to be plugged in to AC to use the Hard drive
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post #3 of 31 Old 06-30-2011, 02:57 PM
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Just watched your 3D version on my Vizio in SBS and it looked very good. Made me feel like I was right there with you. But now, I'm hungry for seafood! The singer has no talent, BTW.
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post #4 of 31 Old 06-30-2011, 08:23 PM - Thread Starter
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Don, Thanks for the tips and comments. I also concluded that the 100 series batteries were too large, and having multiple smaller 70's was better. I have two now and the trv charger, which is incredibly small. I like that it has lights that tell you charging progress, although it is very slow to charge compared to in-camera charging (but that sony ac adaptor is too large and heavy). I have a 4-outlet ac outlet adaptor, which is barely enough.

I should have brought a portable usb drive but I did not want to drag along the ac adaptor; I am dumping to the computer, and I fear I will run out of room (especially as a lot of temp space is need for Vegas). I can always get a portable drive here and offload from the computer (a literal workaround).

I hope to have some more fun 3D videos, with people, where the "story" is more the message, soon: little kids practicing their putting, very seriously; a carousel ride; Chinese businessmen betting on their chip shots; water skiing...

I wish there were the equivalent of the passive 3D Vizio in portable form - about 8" would do. Now its anaglyph or viewing on the 3.5" Sony LCD.

I guess that's why she is singing in a bar with few customers. The fish was good, though.
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post #5 of 31 Old 06-30-2011, 08:36 PM - Thread Starter
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The videos I like to make are of people going about their activities, whether work or play. When I use a small camera for video (the Sony NEX5, the Sony Hx9v, or even the Panasonic TM900 with LCD closed), people do not really notice the camera (especialy when I make use of telephoto) and they go on with their normal behavior for the most part.

The TD10, however, is relatively enormous, and because it has no viewfinder, one must also open the lcd, making it even larger and more conspicuous. As a consequence, I find that people are self-conscious. One example is in the posted video, where one set of diners are cheering and posing, while I just wanted to have a video of people enjoying their food. It's still a fun shot, but not what I wanted. On the carousel ride (forthcoming), many children instinctively waved at the camera as they went by (cute); when I used the Bloggie in an earlier carousel-ride video, no one even noticed me, and they were just enjoying the ride. It's why I still carry around the Bloggie in my pocket, for really candid moments.

A form-factor video camera that is square like a regular camera, with an lcd in the back, works better - I need not look at the lcd and take video; and people do not know whether or not I am filming or even whether the camera is on.
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post #6 of 31 Old 06-30-2011, 09:36 PM
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You and I work alike. I also like to carry the bloggie 3D in my pocket now. But I only carry it for 3D as using the cell phone with it's HD camera quality is often good enough for my needs but now, into 3D it just doesn't do. That reminds me, I need to clear off the memory as the Bloggie is nearly full.
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post #7 of 31 Old 07-02-2011, 09:19 AM - Thread Starter
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Here is the first video. This is from a 2-hour visit to a Hong Kong golf center at a beach, to which I had never been. Swinging, water skiiing, putting, boating, chip shots, fountains, tutoring, fishing. Men, women, children playing at golf and enjoying the water. Some gratuitous 3D popouts, and blowing bubbles.

Needless to say, to do this one needs to move around, and take advantage of the zoom lens on a portable rig when the occasion warrants. There are distance shots and close shots, and I see 3D in all of them.

It took 3 hours 50 minutes to render this 9.5-minute video as a 1/2-frame 108060i best-quality, 16Mbps video in Vegas Platinum 11 on the netbook, and Youtube took almost that long to process the file after it was uploaded.

http://youtu.be/oeFHeU6B3dY?hd=1

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post #8 of 31 Old 07-02-2011, 01:16 PM
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mark- On Vegas Platinum v 11 have you noticed the clicking sound on DD5.1 audio? I noticed that Vegas Platinum V11 has the same audio bug that Vegas Pro 10d has. I use my VP v10 to get a PCM 5.1 file that is crisp and clean.
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post #9 of 31 Old 07-03-2011, 09:15 AM - Thread Starter
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I have so far only shot in stereo mode, in part to avoid the Vegas problems, in part to get better sound (higher bitrate per channel in stereo mode), and partly because I do not have the time to properly edit the 5 audio channels - in my view, surround sound must be carefully done, and often the sounds behind me are not sounds I want mixed at full volume into a stereo downmix that is used by video sharing sites. One day I will experiment with it, but I am working on mastering the extra dimension to the video - depth - first.
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post #10 of 31 Old 07-03-2011, 05:12 PM - Thread Starter
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Indoor shopping mall in Hong Kong: fountains, escalator rides, shopping, wares, and a carousel ride, inside and out.

Lots of pop outs, all shots set up for 3D depth.

Highlight: the aquarium and the carousel ride.

http://youtu.be/rhpUR4EZ3Ak?hd=1
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post #11 of 31 Old 07-04-2011, 06:19 PM - Thread Starter
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Butterflies, toadstool art, walking on water, vistas, a newt, ferns from a mountain nature trail in Hong Kong.

http://youtu.be/tdhsOcDpDeY?hd=1
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post #12 of 31 Old 07-07-2011, 06:52 PM - Thread Starter
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The Sony TD10 in action again: old colonial Macau, glitzy Las Vegas Macau, and an explosive ending.

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post #13 of 31 Old 07-07-2011, 10:30 PM
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Nice video tour, Mark. I was hoping to see the Macau Wynn Hotel and you didn't disappoint. I own stock in that company and Steve Wynn is always bragging on the Macau operation. I see he spared no additional expense in the building design. Had to laugh with his water show. I believe he did the one at the Bellagio in Las Vegas. Are there lots of Casino hotels like the Wynn in Macau? Would like to know what the competition is for Wynn.
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post #14 of 31 Old 07-07-2011, 11:43 PM - Thread Starter
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Don,

There seems to be lots of new competition, including the elaborate Venetian and others. My Chinese hosts had me stay around the older and more traditional places, and these too are elaborate and glitzy. The contrast between the Las Vegas style hotels, Potuguese colonial architecture, Chinese public works, and tourist junkiness is fun. More interesting than Vegas for sure. But, I can win at Blackjack in either place; its why I decied to buy the ECM L100, among other things...

This video was more of a tour than amusement, but I hope it captures the contrasts. On the fountain show, I had a lot more video but 1. it's is not great 3D material unless one wants to get wet and 2. I was worried about music property rights - Youtube has dinged me for the video of that women singing in the bar (I think the punishment is banner ads that pop up).

The video is slightly longer than 15 minutes, we will see if it survives (I also have the alleged "privilege" of over-15 minute videos).
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post #15 of 31 Old 07-08-2011, 06:06 AM
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Interesting on the YT warnings. I got one on one Disney video and as this is not commercial and all contained was Disney theme park recorded, just remixed, I ignored it. I do recognize this is a debatable issue. On another video I did I include some music I pay rights for and didn't get notice. I'm sure it's all done by robot scanners anyway. I had the >15 min for some time and when I did the third 30 minute upload, it must have triggered something. What I don't understand is how so many use YT for obvious violations, uploading tv shows and complete music CDs etc. I know these people haven't paid Harry fox agency or other for rights to upload complete copyrighted works.
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post #16 of 31 Old 07-10-2011, 06:25 PM - Thread Starter
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Lily pads, turtles, goldfish going wild, photographers with long lenses hunting birds, family feeding, scenic views, and a colorful crane hunts and dines. In 3D!

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post #17 of 31 Old 07-10-2011, 06:34 PM - Thread Starter
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I can put together a 3D timeline, play it in the preview window in anaglyph in real time and render a 3D video or blu ray iso using Vegas Platinum on the Atom-powered netbook, but I cannot trim without a stoppage. So I first view the raw clips using (free) Splash Lite, which plays the clips continuously (in 2D). I make notes of which clips should be part of the finished video and which need trimming, and then import the clips into PMB, where I can trim without loss of resolution. The trimmed clips are imported into Vegas for putting together the video and rendering to 1/2 frame sbs, 108060i, 16 Mbps, for Youtube. As a check I watch the final rendered file using Stereophonic player in anaglyph, as that is what most people viewing on Youtube will use. Stereophonic player loses audio synch and drops frames, however. All my clips are AC3 stereo, so no issues about surround sound.
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post #18 of 31 Old 07-20-2011, 12:54 AM - Thread Starter
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The last and perhaps best 3D video from Hong Kong, as I have more experience with Vegas Platinum 11 on the netbook and with the camera: pink flamingos, exotic birds, wild and in cages; swans, ducks, fountains, photographers, and kung fu action with flags, balls, sticks and hands by adults and children.

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post #19 of 31 Old 02-11-2012, 11:28 AM
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Thank you very much for these videos.
I just want to buy a TD10 for traveling.
Are you satisfied with it?
What is the main limitation, disatvantages?
Are the native videos sharp enough?
thx
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post #20 of 31 Old 02-15-2012, 02:57 AM
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Hi,
i have a Glidecam 2000 stabilizer, but i think this will be to heavy for TD10,
and not so easy carrying while traveling up to a mountain and down, etc.
So i search for a smaller, lighter handheld stabilizer which will fit in my backpack.
Should i buy the Merlin, or are there any other good but cheaper alternatives?
thx
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post #21 of 31 Old 02-15-2012, 05:12 AM
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Check out the Blackbird stabilizer, I've seen positive reports on them including good support from the vendor. Weight range 1-8# so your camera would be right on the lower end. I don't own one so can't comment personally.
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post #22 of 31 Old 02-15-2012, 05:23 AM
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I use a poorman's glidecam. I attach my monopod collapsed and hold the monopod with my thumb and middle finger like a yoke allowing the TD10 to swing. requires no additional equipment to haul along. Not as good as a steadycam but probably works 90% as good as a glidecam HD2000 and is free vs. $500.
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post #23 of 31 Old 02-15-2012, 05:30 AM
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OK, but i need this not just for hobby.
Merlin is a bit expensive, glidecam was a lot cheaper.
I just need a smaller solution for lighter cameras.
Thanks Michael!
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post #24 of 31 Old 02-15-2012, 07:22 AM
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Anything you buy will be bulky to haul along and cost. Once you have the skill with a monopod METHOD that serves many uses in the field, you will achieve 90% of those glidecam devices. So, in my opinion those glidecams are a waste of money. But if you want major improvement, then go with the real thing- steadicam merlin with vest and arm support. Now you can run with the camera and it will look like it's on a track dolly.
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post #25 of 31 Old 02-16-2012, 11:38 PM
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I don't think my glidecam was a waste of money.
And why should i buy a vest and arm, when i can do great shots like these?
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post #26 of 31 Old 02-17-2012, 02:01 AM
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You asked for a smaller solution and I gave you my suggestion. But, you felt like the monopod made you look like an amateur, like a hobby. So, I took it you wanted to look more like a pro. So, that dictates a real steadicam, which the Merlin with vest and arm will certainly do. Will it do more than a glide cam? Only if you require more than what the glide cam will do. It certainly is not smaller. Maybe it was my reference to the term, "poor man's" glide cam that bothered you. Here in the US we use that to mean getting the same results but being creative with using existing equipment in a creative way. A monopod is one of the most versatile support tools you can add for very low cost and size. Perfectly suited for camcorders in the weight and size class of the TD10. Small accessories you can add to a monopod to add versatility, would be a pan bar, a ball head and a dovetail quick connect. You can even clamp on a handle and gimble to convert the monopod into a full featured glide cam.

I have no issue with using complex and complicated equipment to impress a client who expects to see that on his project. Part of the game sometimes. But when I work for myself, I get the shot anyway I want. In fact most of the time it is to my advantage to appear as an amateur.
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post #27 of 31 Old 02-19-2012, 02:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markr041 View Post

The last and perhaps best 3D video from Hong Kong, as I have more experience with Vegas Platinum 11 on the netbook and with the camera: pink flamingos, exotic birds, wild and in cages; swans, ducks, fountains, photographers, and kung fu action with flags, balls, sticks and hands by adults and children.


Absolutely great! Thanks for inspiring me. I've taken a few family videos eiht the TD10, but now I'm looking forward to traveling with it--very nice. I like the handheld video capability, and even at SBS the videos hold up very well.
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post #28 of 31 Old 02-23-2012, 12:42 PM
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I found the Hague MMC stabilizer for low price,
and it's good up to 1kg camcorders.
I think with TD10 this will be a great duo!
What you think?
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post #29 of 31 Old 02-24-2012, 02:24 AM
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Thanks for the tip. I decided to order one for $75 through Amazon. Its a Manfrotto model. I liked how it folds up and doubles as a tripod and can be used as a shoulder mount strap. I can see using this with my Bloggie3D.

Seems a little bulky to fit in my pocket but should hang from my belt the same as my monopod.
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post #30 of 31 Old 02-24-2012, 02:43 AM
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Manfrotto 585 3 in 1?
Looks interesting, but on the youtube
i only found very bad videos, not smooth.

I read that Modosteady is just about entirely plastic.
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