Sony HDR-TD10 Questions. Please help.. - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 30 Old 07-02-2011, 09:28 PM - Thread Starter
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So I filled the camera up with some great vacation 3D high Rez videos over the last couple weeks. Now I am home and the family wants to watch them on our new 65" Vizio 3D TV in 3D.

I went for the quick fix and plugged the HDMI cable from the camera to the TV. It worked fine with the camera switch in 2D but as soon as I moved the switch to 3D the TV lost the signal from the camera. No matter what I did I was not able to watch the video's in 3D. 2D worked great but I already have a camera that does 2D.

I then started trying to figure out how to get the files to a format that will play on the TV in 3D HD. My TV has Side By Side, Top and Bottom, and 3D Sensio modes. I am assuming since the lenses are next to each other once I get this working it will be side by side.

PMB even with the Blu-Ray plug in wants to convert my movies to 2D before burning. 1 button burning wants to do the same thing from the camera. I read here that Sony Vegas can edit the software but thats another what $600? I really dont even care about editing the video's. I just want to get them in a format I can watch them. Any way to stream them in 3D format maybe from a PS3?

Ideas? Help? Anyone? Please?
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post #2 of 30 Old 07-02-2011, 11:14 PM
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You could hook up a PC to the TV and use Stereoscopic Player to play the MVC .mts files as side by side 3D. Panasonic, Samsung, and Sony 3D HDTVs can play TD10 footage automatically via HDMI. Pehaps contact Vizio and ask if this might work with a setting change.
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post #3 of 30 Old 07-03-2011, 09:21 AM
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I have a Vizio and a TD10 with hdmi connection. It works and don't try to over complicate it. In summary- the Vizio does not do auto select as do other 3D TV's

Put the Vizio in 3D sensio mode. BUT, the Vizio has this annoying system that requires you to select 3D every time with the 3D button on the remote control. If you don't select it manually each time, it will default to 2D. I like my Vizio for many things but this is one part of their firmware that really pisses me off. In effect the Vizio does not auto switch to 3D like other 3DTVs do. I can plug my TD10 into my Sony and it auto switches every time to 3D.

Worse yet- the Vizio will need to be switched to 3D every time you play a file except when the TD10 runs through each clip in a playlist. If you stop the TD10 and select another 3D file to play you'll need to reswitch the Vizio to 3D again! The technical reason for this is that the TD10 breaks the handshake in the hdmi everytime you stop the video playback. Then when that happens the Vizio auto switches to 2D.

I would be pleased as punch if someone would explain to me how to manually put the Vizio in 3D mode and leave it there!

Got more bad news on this- I connected my Panasonic 3D Blu-Ray player and it too requires the Vizio to be reswitched to 3D every time. The disk will play in 2D otherwise.

The only time I select SBS mode is when playing files from my PC that are in SBS on windows media player. For Vegas, I select 3D sensio and connect to my PC's 3D graphics card secondary monitor output. AS long as that connection remains active the Vizio will stay in 3D mode. If I break the hdmi output from the PC and reconnect it, I have to manually tell the Vizio to go to 3D Sensio.

Hope this helps.


One more point- Don't start your TD10 in 2D mode and switch on the back to 3D. Just power up the TD10 in 3D select play and then manually put the Vizio in 3D mode using the remote control 3D button and select the 3D Sensio option for the TD10.
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post #4 of 30 Old 07-03-2011, 11:18 AM - Thread Starter
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Even if I am able to get the camera to work with the Vizio TV via the HDMI cable. What does Sony expect someone to do keep all their videos on the camera forever? I have mine 3/4 full already. The HDR-TD10 takes amazing pictures.

There has to be a better way.

Think about it. Your friends come over and want to see the Video from the last childs birthday party they missed. You say "hold on a half hour or so while I copy it back to my camcorder so I can play it for you?"

I can still return this. Its a shame but if I have no way to easily play my 3D videos on my TV it is useless.
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post #5 of 30 Old 07-03-2011, 11:28 AM - Thread Starter
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Hi Don,

Thank you so much for writing the explaination.

The problem I have though is as soon as I switch the camera to 3D mode the TV says no signal and the picture goes blank. If I hit the 3D button it says "Not supported in this mode"

I started the video playing with the camera switch in 2D mode which works fine through the HDMI. once it was playing I changed the Vizio to 3D sensio. I then switched the camera to 3D mode and immiediately the TV lost signal from the camcorder.

Maybe I have a defective one?

Ted
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post #6 of 30 Old 07-03-2011, 11:33 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Landis View Post

One more point- Don't start your TD10 in 2D mode and switch on the back to 3D. Just power up the TD10 in 3D select play and then manually put the Vizio in 3D mode using the remote control 3D button and select the 3D Sensio option for the TD10.

I also reset the camera with the recessed button. While in 3D mode it did have signal on the TV. I was able to go through the setting of the clock and time zone while seeing everything on the TV. As soon as the time zone and time was saved the TV again lost signal from the camera and would only work in 2D mode again. my TV is a XVT3D650SV.
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post #7 of 30 Old 07-03-2011, 02:42 PM
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There is no need to be rebooting the camcorder. Please! Keep it simple.
Let's start in the everything off position
Step 1 Connect the TD10 camcorder to your hdmi cable and to one of the hdmi inputs. I have mine connected to the side hdmi.
2. turn on your Vizio TV.
3. You should see "No Signal"
4. Select the proper hdmi input with the remote control. I select #3 hdmi side.
5. Now open your TD10 screen to turn it on with the back 2D-3D switch already in 3D mode. LEAVE THE SWITCH IN 3D! Stop the monkey business with that switch when you are tying to watch the 3D clips. You are still fixed on trying to make this hard.
6. IN about 5 seconds the No signal will switch to "3D signal detected and you need to quickly select Yes to watch in 3D. You will see the TD10 live camera and if you selected YES you will get a warning to wear your 3D glasses. select OK. With them on you will see live camera in 3D.
7. Now assume you did nothing and the TV remained in 2D mode- Fix it this way-
Power down the TV and back up again. Another way is to just power down the set wait 10 seconds and back on, select the proper hdmi input and get signal. be sure to select the YES for 3D and say OK to the wear glasses advisory.
Now you have the TD10 live camera on 3D. On the TD10 screen you can select the play button in the lower left screen and get your menu of 3D clips. Select one and watch in 3D. The menus are in 2D but when the clip launches it will play in 3D

Note best to leave the Vizio in 3D Sensio mode all the time unless you are specifically playing SBS or TB video in 3D.

You were whining about having to pl;ay the 3D on your camcorder. Well, if that is all you have then that is the only way you'll be able to watch 3D. The next best way to watch archived 3D video is with BluRay BD-R. For theis the easiest way is to use Vegas Platinum HD V11. You can connect your TD10 to a powerful computer capable of handling the 3D MVC clips using a USB cable and port the video clips to Vegas. Then burn the clips to a disk. Connect a 3D BD-R player to your monitor and play your stuff that way. The third way is to get the clips on a very powerful computer using a 3D secondary monitor output and play the clips from inside Vegas timeline. So far no one has reported using a computer than can play 3D video in full resolution continuously so this method will require a very powerful computer.
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post #8 of 30 Old 07-03-2011, 06:58 PM
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Don's advice is great, and we are all lucky he is responding here.

One slight disagreement: "You can connect your TD10 to a powerful computer capable of handling the 3D MVC clips using a USB cable and port the video clips to Vegas." (italics mine)

You do not need a powerful computer to use Vegas Platinum V11 with the TD10. I have had success using just a netbook, with 2GB memory and an Atom chip. No crashes, no problems, and it does the job. Powerful is needed if you intend to add a lot of fanciness to the video - transitions, titles etc. This $94 program makes creating bluray 3D videos that will play in any 3D bluray player easy.
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post #9 of 30 Old 07-03-2011, 10:03 PM
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Mark that is true, I guess, as I don't use a netbook. But I'm never one to just uise a full blown edit program as a clip player. BTW- I guess your netbook is faster than my quad core with 8Gb because I just tried to play a single 3D MVC clip that was one minute long in V11 and it started out OK but after about 20 seconds lost speed. In Vegas Pro, if I set dynamic RAM for 6 Gb and hit shift B I can play the clip upto about a minute. It will automatically truncate the play section based on the assigned ram.

Editing is like guess work for timing but at least we can edit the clips to make a nice robust looking video. I haven't even tried editing 3D on a dual core here.
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post #10 of 30 Old 07-04-2011, 03:13 AM
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Don, I am confused: I am not saying to use Vegas Premium as a "clip player". It is an editor (as you know) - for stringing together clips, trimming clips and making a video (and more).

I assume the poster's friend's don't want to watch all the clips taken by a camcorder, in time order; they want to watch a video - with structure perhaps and only the good stuff. Hence, an editor is needed.

And Vegas Premium 11 will do the job, as long as one does not do anything fancy, in any Windows 7 computer. Then you play the edited video, using some player like Stereophonic player or even Windows Media player with sbs files or put it back in the camcorder.

For the editing I do, I don't care if I cannot see clips play in real time *while editing*. I can watch each clip in a player outside of Vegas to know what is in it, whether it needs trimming or whatever. Again, I don't use soundtracks or fancy transitions, so all I need to know is clip content. I watch all the clips, make notes for each and then put them in Vegas for trimming, ordering, titling to make a video. I do not need to see anything in real time in the editor, having already seen the clips in real time. But that's just me, and maybe also most people who just, like the op, want a quick way of making a 3D video to play for friend, not a "production."
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post #11 of 30 Old 07-04-2011, 08:46 AM
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Very few people are ever satisfied to maintain the status quo. As you get more comfortable with editing, your clip viewer be it Vegas or other including the highlighter inside of the TD10 will grow to be your own "production." It all begins with shooting more than you need or want to look at, so you trim the heads and tails. Next you'll rearrange the trimmed clips in a new order that you prefer. Next you may add a title to the beginning. Then you add some background music, and before you know it your friends will be looking forward to your next amateur production and after several of these you may feel you have what it takes to make money at it and turn professional. It's how most of us get our start in this as a career. A few I know spent the big bucks and went to film school but few are ever better than the amateurs I know who have the talent to tell a good story.
I try to understand what each person's goal is in what they want to do but some things are just engraved in stone and don't change. Like-The more robust your requirements are for what you want to do, the more robust your equipment has to be to achieve a minimum of performance. That is all the point I was trying to make in my reference to a "powerful" computer. Bravia3d is a good example. He is frustrated because he is pushing his personal envelope with an underpowered system and is sick and tired of it taking a week to render his current level of editing skills. Another is icerat who just wants to burn his clips to a Blue ray without needing to jump through the hoops of a powerful computer and a bluRay burner with Vegas. Someday he will have that but today he can't unless he stays with 2D. While I have retired from the professional world of TV production, My goal is still to make high quality stories of my travels. I treat the clips viewer from the camcorder like looking at dailies. Then I dump to a hard drive and delete from the camcorder. Later I dump to my computer and begin the long and tedious task of looking at everything again and again to make a script of what I want to assemble. It is this stage that very few people want to do as it requires a special mindset few have the patients to deal with. I'm not saying this is good or bad mindset, just different.
I put together a very nice wedding video for my daughter a few years back. I was happy with the results since weddings are not my cup of tea. However, I needed a good opening to set the stage for the rest of the project I edited. so I hired a guy who is very talented with wedding presentations. I gave him the media and said knock my socks off. He spent over a hundred hours doing 3 minutes of timeline that brought tears of emotion to everyone in the family. Did the DVD with the raw clips do that? Heck no! I don't have the patients to deal with that level of editing detail, but there are people who do and that is good.
The one thing I'm enjoying most about not doing professional productions is I don't deal with deadlines, budget, and a client with dumb ideas on what they would like to see anymore. I still deal with equipment and software that doesn't perform to my expectations, plus people who tell me something works and it doesn't, like that Vegas 5.1 bug. That remains frustrating.
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post #12 of 30 Old 07-04-2011, 02:59 PM - Thread Starter
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Don I wanted to thank you again for your well thought out post. In the end it is what put me on the right track to solving this. It is obvious Vizio has made some changes from your TV to mine. I followed your steps exactly and I was still getting no signal. After your explaination though I had the understanding that the TV was looking for a 3D signal and it was obviously not getting it. I started looking at the settings in the camera that were around HDMI. I found a setting that was set to auto that had two options. First was frame packing mode and the other was Side by Side. I first manually selected frame packing mode and was greeted with the same no signal error. I then changed the option to side by side. Immediately my picture came up and the Vizio TV asked me if I wanted to enter 3D mode. I said yes and I was running in 3D and playing the clip. Once that happened I was able to stop the clips and play different ones without having to change modes on the TV as you described. The TV stayed in 3D mode the whole time. Everything looks great now! I am going to post again in a second on Vegas as I have a couple other questions there.

THANKS!!!!

Ted
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post #13 of 30 Old 07-04-2011, 03:10 PM - Thread Starter
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On Sony Vegas

Mark you posted a $94 price tag for a program to get this stuff working off the camera. Is this one of the versions of Vegas? The price tag I saw was like $500

My needs are pretty simple. I have a 6 core computer with like a pretty high end 3d video card and 8 gigs of memory SSD etc. I also have a Sony Blue Ray burner in it.

In the simplest form I will be taking my camera and filming an event or a vacation. I will have a series of clips. I would like to combine those clips together and without losing any picture quality (1080P) burn a blu ray disk I can stick in my PS3 to show friends and family our 3d home movies. I have worked with Pinnacle a lot in the past and I am familiar with that. I do realize it does not suport this format yet though. I am willing to deal with the learning curve of Vegas though.

As a bonus if the 94$ version will allow it would also be nice to trim the clips and maybe even do a menu or transitions between them. This is not huge thouhgh. Right now I would be happy if I could just drag all the clips to a timeline in order and select a burn to 3D blu ray option and be done. Nice and simple. Is this possible? If so is there maybe a video or instructions someplace on the steps I could use to get started?

Thanks again to everyone on here. I know I am new and asking a lot of questions.

Ted
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post #14 of 30 Old 07-04-2011, 04:31 PM
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Interesting you set your camera to SBS. I just checked mine to be sure and have it set to frame packing, then verified the Vizio is set to 3D sensio.

The two versions of Vegas are Pro ( the expensive one) and Studio, the cheap one. The lower cost one will do what you need and want now and when you want to do some of the stuff you will see grayed out in the menus, you can then decide to make the upgrade. There is a bunch of pro stuff you will never need like multicamera sync, and switcher, closed caption and some codecs for broadcast and studio cameras and a few things you will wish you had as you develop editing skills like more robust titling, but I would begin at the Studio product level. Studio and Pro are almost twins so what you learn with Studio can be carried over to Pro.
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post #15 of 30 Old 07-04-2011, 07:26 PM
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Canar: Yes, everything you say you want to do you can do with Vegas Platinum 11 (including burning a 3D bluray right from the timeline), available for download for $94 right from Sonycreative. You can also download the whole program for a *free* 30-day trial. I have made three 3D videos using the trial version - trimming, linking files, converting to sbs for upload to Youtube 3D. The links to the videos are in the thread about traveling with the TD10.
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post #16 of 30 Old 07-21-2012, 06:19 AM
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I realize this is not a new thread, but can't find the answer to this anywhere.

Yesterday I purchased the Sony HDR-TD20V 3D camcorder - I love the camera, but unfortunately I am ready to return it unless I can resolve the deficiency.

Last week I purchased a Samsung 3D plasma TV (PN60E550) - perfectly displays 3D Side by Side (SBS) movies (not from the 3d camcorder) that I store on my Western Digital WDTV Live Hub media player connected via HDMI to the television.

I also download video files from my other Sony camcorder (2d not 3d) onto the media player and view them on my 3d TV (in 2d naturally)

I can download video files (.MTS files) from the new Sony HDR-TD20V to my media player, but it plays back on my Samsung 3d tv in 2d only not in 3d.

It is now my understanding that there are four ways to to play back HDR-TD20V files in 3d:

1. load archived 3d video files back on to the 3d camcorder then connect the camcorder via HDMI to the 3d TV (not acceptable solution)

2. store the 3d video files on the camcorder and view on 3d TV via HDMI cable (not acceptable solution)

3. burn the 3d files onto a 3d blu-ray disk (not acceptable solution)

4. view the 3d files on the built-in LCD display on the camcorder (not acceptable solution)

In any case these options would be unacceptable, as all of my media is streamed from the media player via HDMI to the Samsung 3D plasma TV.

Would anyone know if there is a way to store the HDR-TD20V 3d video files on a hard drive and then play them in 3d on my 3d TV without having to first copy them onto the Sony 3d camcorder. Please note that all current 3d TVs typically have three 3d options:

1. convert from 2d to 3d (not what I want to do)
2. play 3d side by side (SBS) video file (not the file format the HDR-TD10V generates)
3. play 3d over and under video file (not the file format the HDR-TD20V

The sales person at Future Shop in Toronto (325 Yonge Street, Toronto) assured me that it would not be necessary to use the Sony 3d camera as a player to view the recordings in 3d. In fact it appears that it is necessary to use the camera as a playback device if I want to view the recordings in 3d (unless I want to burn to Blu-Ray 3d - don't have one of these burners, and don't want to accumulate disks)

I certainly don't want to have to use the camcorder as the playback device.

To quote Canar

"does Sony expect someone to keep all their videos on the camera forever? I have mine 3/4 full already. The HDR-TD10 takes amazing pictures.

There has to be a better way.

Think about it. Your friends come over and want to see the 3d video from the last child's birthday party they missed. You say "hold on a half hour or so while I copy it back to my camcorder so I can play it for you?""

Thank you for your assistance
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post #17 of 30 Old 07-21-2012, 09:14 AM - Thread Starter
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Good luck with your quest. I would have even been happy wth a simple conversion method to side by side. I tried Vegas on a couple different pc's but it would crash regularly. I saved the recordings I made in the hope that someday there will be an easy way to convert them to a useable format.

I returned the camera.
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post #18 of 30 Old 07-21-2012, 10:33 AM
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dpaul- careful about double posting same message in different threads. It is a violation of forum rules to do that. I answered you in your other post.
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post #19 of 30 Old 07-21-2012, 11:48 AM - Thread Starter
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Don if your not going to add any productive content to my thread please stay off it. You have no right tellibg people to not post on it.
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post #20 of 30 Old 07-21-2012, 12:28 PM
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????

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post #21 of 30 Old 07-21-2012, 01:02 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Wolfgang S. View Post

????

You have a question?
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post #22 of 30 Old 07-21-2012, 01:22 PM
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Sure. Why are you so unfriendly to people like Don who also helped you? Why do you beliefe that there is something like "your thread" in a public forum?

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post #23 of 30 Old 07-21-2012, 01:32 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfgang S. View Post

Sure. Why are you so unfriendly to people like Don who also helped you? Why do you beliefe that there is something like "your thread" in a public forum?

Usually if a person posts a thread then it is their thread. Kind of common sense if you ask me. When you start a thread it would be yours no? I have been watching and hoping someone would eventually respond to this with an answer for my dilema for over a year. If not for dpaul posting on my thread I would have had no idea there was more relevant content out here. That being said I dont appreciate someone telling people to not post in it. Don could have easily just said I answered your question in the other thread.
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post #24 of 30 Old 07-21-2012, 02:06 PM
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Maybe your common sense is not the common sense of somebody else?

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post #25 of 30 Old 07-21-2012, 02:28 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfgang S. View Post

Maybe your common sense is not the common sense of somebody else?

Yup everyone has different opinions.

I tell you what. I just posted a new thread on a different camera. It can be yours if you like. I would sugest you subscribe to it so you can keep up with the responses...
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post #26 of 30 Old 07-21-2012, 02:46 PM - Thread Starter
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Im not exactly sure how to get this added to your screen for it though

"THREAD STARTER"
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post #27 of 30 Old 07-21-2012, 06:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Canar View Post

"THREAD STARTER"

Really, do you think that people care about that? I mean, if you are looking for help, have a question - and then blame the guys who have tried to support you?

Kind regards,
Wolfgang
videotreffpunkt.com
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post #28 of 30 Old 07-22-2012, 05:12 PM
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The best way to view your files is to use an SDHC card to record all you r videos. Don't bother recording directly into the 64GB internal drive. Once the SDHC card is full, take it out and back it up onto another SDHC card. You can insert this SDHC card into a blue ray 3d player and run it from there.

Pretty simple everyone.
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post #29 of 30 Old 07-23-2012, 02:39 AM
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fuall, That doesn't work for 3D on my blu Ray Player. Please list which player you have that works so people will know.
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post #30 of 30 Old 07-24-2012, 10:54 AM
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Panasonic DMP BDT220/320/500 plays HDR-TD10 files from SD card in 1080i 3D. The same is for BD-Rs produced by PMB / PlayMemories Home - 1080i 3D, no need to convert or else.
No menus, but Panasonic has kind of it's own menu when it plays BD-Rs - grouped by date (days)
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