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post #1 of 31 Old 07-11-2011, 10:52 PM - Thread Starter
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I didn't see a thread dedicated to the new MVC-to-AVI program, so I thought I would start one.

My first question is this. The program only outputs the audio into the left clip. I just made a test using footage from my JVC 3D Camera (before I returned it). I rendered out to uncompressed AVI.

When I marry the clips in Vegas, it takes the audio from the RIGHT clip, which is empty.

Is there a way to:
a) tell vegas to take audio from the left clip (I can't find anything that would do this)

b) tell MVC-to-AVI to save the audio in both clips (saving it only in the left clip seems kind of arbitrary to me).

I've been very happy with the Sony 3D Camera, but it doesn't support manual white balancing, and the JVC does. This is important to us getting a non-amatuer look. Now that the MVC-to-AVI program exists, the JVC camera becomes a viable option again. That is, if I can get the sound show up in Vegas.

To those who are doing this process, what are you doing to get the sound in?

thanks,
jack
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post #2 of 31 Old 07-17-2011, 09:02 PM - Thread Starter
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I emailed Peter about this with no response. Can someone who knows him find out if he can add an option to simply include audio with both the left and right outputs? It's arbitrary why only the left gets audio at the moment. Otherwise, does anyone know how to get Vegas to use the left audio of two paired clips instead of the right? Am I missing something obvious and simple?
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post #3 of 31 Old 07-18-2011, 05:32 AM
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My first attempt to use the converter was no good. I imported some MVC clips from my TD10 camera using the Sony PMB browser.

I opened the MVC-AVI converter and brought in those clips. The converter could not convert them and left a message that they were not MVC clips. Actually the clip properties showed they were .m2ts.

Is there something I need to do to have the converter rercognize them?

Thanks for the help.

Marty
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post #4 of 31 Old 07-18-2011, 04:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jraaronson View Post

I emailed Peter about this with no response. Can someone who knows him find out if he can add an option to simply include audio with both the left and right outputs? It's arbitrary why only the left gets audio at the moment. Otherwise, does anyone know how to get Vegas to use the left audio of two paired clips instead of the right? Am I missing something obvious and simple?

I don't think you're missing anything. I hope Peter addresses the issue. I'll e-mail him, too. The workaround is simple, if inconvenient. Pull the left file into the timeline, ungroup the video and audio (click it then hit "u"), click on the video file and delete it. Then, insert the paired clip, ungroup its audio and delete it, then group the good left audio to the paired clip (alt-click one and then the other, hit "g").

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post #5 of 31 Old 07-18-2011, 04:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Videoguy68 View Post

My first attempt to use the converter was no good. I imported some MVC clips from my TD10 camera using the Sony PMB browser.

I opened the MVC-AVI converter and brought in those clips. The converter could not convert them and left a message that they were not MVC clips. Actually the clip properties showed they were .m2ts.

Is there something I need to do to have the converter rercognize them?

Thanks for the help.

Marty

I have the JVC, but I had the same experience with Sony clips I downloaded. Have you tried the latest version (0.3)?

Do you want to split them to get better performance on the timeline? The Sony files work directly in Vegas, but you no doubt know that.

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post #6 of 31 Old 07-18-2011, 05:40 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks, Joe. That's a bit of a process when we are talking about hundreds of clips. I also wonder if it is possible to convert one format (JVC) to another (Sony). That way, we could use the JVC clips the same way we do the Sony clips.

We have both cameras now, and it's obviously easier to use the Sony clips. But without manual white balancing and other controls, the Sony camera's footage looks very amateur.
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post #7 of 31 Old 07-18-2011, 06:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jraaronson View Post

Thanks, Joe. That's a bit of a process when we are talking about hundreds of clips. I also wonder if it is possible to convert one format (JVC) to another (Sony). That way, we could use the JVC clips the same way we do the Sony clips.

We have both cameras now, and it's obviously easier to use the Sony clips. But without manual white balancing and other controls, the Sony camera's footage looks very amateur.

A converter would be nice, especially if it left the original image alone (no quality loss). It would make editing JVC clips in Vegas easier. Within a year, though, I'll be shocked if we don't have a few more options other than just Vegas to create 3D Blu-ray compliant discs from the JVC footage.

Although I haven't seen a great many Sony clips, from what I have seen I prefer the JVC image by a very wide margin. The Sony has hardware features that I sorely miss with the JVC (wider zoom, LANC control), but I wouldn't trade because I think the JVC's image quality is SPECTACULAR. I can work around it's hardware limitations. I also use full auto mode almost all the time with the JVC, and it performs extremely well. The manual controls are there, of course, if you need them.

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post #8 of 31 Old 07-18-2011, 06:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joseph Clark View Post

I have the JVC, but I had the same experience with Sony clips I downloaded. Have you tried the latest version (0.3)?

Do you want to split them to get better performance on the timeline? The Sony files work directly in Vegas, but you no doubt know that.

I just wanted to try the splitter and see how ( if ) the avi files would run on Premiere Pro. I edit with both PPro and Vegas.

I believe I have the latest version but will check.

Marty
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post #9 of 31 Old 07-18-2011, 06:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Videoguy68 View Post

I just wanted to try the splitter and see how ( if ) the avi files would run on Premiere Pro. I edit with both PPro and Vegas.

I believe I have the latest version but will check.

Marty

I don't know about the Sony, but the JVC converted files work in Premiere Pro if you have Cineform Neo or Neo3D installed and you use the Cineform HD-2 codec (and they're properly muxed in FirstLight). I prefer the Premiere titler to the Vegas one, so I do my titles in Premiere and port them over to Vegas. Originally, there was a bug in Vegas that would not allow titles to work properly, although I'm told this is fixed. I still prefer the Premiere titler, though this may just be because I'm overlooking features in the Vegas ones.

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post #10 of 31 Old 07-18-2011, 07:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joseph Clark View Post

I don't know about the Sony, but the JVC converted files work in Premiere Pro if you have Cineform Neo or Neo3D installed and you use the Cineform HD-2 codec (and they're properly muxed in FirstLight). I prefer the Premiere titler to the Vegas one, so I do my titles in Premiere and port them over to Vegas. Originally, there was a bug in Vegas that would not allow titles to work properly, although I'm told this is fixed. I still prefer the Premiere titler, though this may just be because I'm overlooking features in the Vegas ones.

Joe:

I found version 0.3 and installed it togther with an audio decoder. Conversion of .m2ts files was smooth but playback of the AVi files was very choppy in either Vegas or Ppro (without Neo)

I have used PPro for years and am comfortable with it. I bought Neo and will try the Avi clips in a Neo preset.

I also like the PPro titler only because I have used it so many times.

One caveat about using HDLink to convert files to Cineform. The resulting files are HUGE, maybe as much as 10 times the size of the original files. You need loads of storage space for these files.

Marty
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post #11 of 31 Old 07-18-2011, 07:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Videoguy68 View Post

Joe:

I found version 0.3 and installed it togther with an audio decoder. Conversion of .m2ts files was smooth but playback of the AVi files was very choppy in either Vegas or Ppro (without Neo)

I have used PPro for years and am comfortable with it. I bought Neo and will try the Avi clips in a Neo preset.

I also like the PPro titler only because I have used it so many times.

One caveat about using HDLink to convert files to Cineform. The resulting files are HUGE, maybe as much as 10 times the size of the original files. You need loads of storage space for these files.

Marty

You're using HDLink to convert? How does that work for 3D files? I don't use it at all for the 3D workflow. I use MVCtoAVI with the codec set to Cineform HD-2 at "High" quality. The files are about 10x the original size at Cineform "High," maybe 8x at "Medium," depending on content.

You're familiar with the FirstLight muxing procedure, right? I'm playing back from a fast SSD, but 3D playback is still choppy on my Core i5. It's a CPU/GPU/driver issue at this point. I'll be moving this process over to my main editing rig when I finish a separate project. It's a Core i7 with more RAM. I'm expecting it to be a bit smoother. Most of the time, I edit with the left eye view only (in Premiere and Vegas). I can still check 3D when I need to, but it plays back pretty smoothly with the single eye view, even on the i5.

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post #12 of 31 Old 07-18-2011, 07:42 PM
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You might want to check out this series of posts over in the JVC TD1 thread. Petri found that the free Matrox codecs work with MVCtoAVI, too. You can set the bitrate, and I've found that at 120mbps the files look about the same as with Cineform "High" quality, but they're much smaller.

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post #13 of 31 Old 07-19-2011, 05:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joseph Clark View Post

You might want to check out this series of posts over in the JVC TD1 thread. Petri found that the free Matrox codecs work with MVCtoAVI, too. You can set the bitrate, and I've found that at 120mbps the files look about the same as with Cineform "High" quality, but they're much smaller.

Joe:

I woke up this morning and asked myself why I want to start messing around with splitting MVC files to AVI, converting with HDlink and then editing with Cineform Neo and PPro. I do this for fun as a retired hobbyist. With the assisitance and guidance from the nice people on this forum and using Vegas 10Dand E, I have been able to create flawless 3D ISO files that I burned to
3D Blu ray disks. I have also been able to create 3D MP4 files that I have burned to 3D Blu ray using TMPGEnc Authoring Works 4. Rather than improving my skills with Vegas I can't think of any reason to edit 3D in any other fashion at this time.

The bottom line is "if it ain't broke....." and so far I have been able to do what I set out to do, which is use my TD10 and create 3D videos.

I appreciate your suggestions about using Neo. However, my previous efforts with earlier versions of Cineform Aspect, then Prospect were highly frustrating. Cineform promised real time monitoring of the timeline on a HD TV using Blackmagic Intensity but never delivered. Since Vegas allows me to monitor my work on a TV with one simple click, I am going to stay with Vegas.

Ppro and Neo are on my computer, but in a state of readiness, nothing more for now

Regards,

Marty
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post #14 of 31 Old 07-19-2011, 06:54 AM
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Good philosophy.

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post #15 of 31 Old 07-19-2011, 06:59 AM
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I just got a note back from Peter. He's added a feature to include audio in the right stream in version 0.3.1. I won't be able to test it until later today.

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post #16 of 31 Old 07-19-2011, 08:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Videoguy68 View Post

I have also been able to create 3D MP4 files that I have burned to 3D Blu ray using TMPGEnc Authoring Works 4.

How did you create MVC-in-MP4 files? Also, I don't think TMPGEnc AW4 is able to create a Blu-ray 3D disc structure.

Please, feel free to call me by my first name, Petri.
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post #17 of 31 Old 07-19-2011, 12:17 PM
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The new version (0.3.1) of Peter Wimmer's utility has an option to put the audio in the right eye file. That seems to have fixed the problem. I did only one test, but it worked. I used the Matrox MPEG2 I-Frame HD codec. I'll test more tonight.

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post #18 of 31 Old 07-19-2011, 02:29 PM - Thread Starter
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lol. This new option lets you put the sound in the right file INSTEAD of the left file. Is it really such a big deal to get sound in BOTH files? I don't understand why it makes sense to create a soundless file, especially if something goes wrong and re-syncing must be done down the line. Can someone who knows Peter please ask him to include a "sound in both files" option? He's never replied to my emails.
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post #19 of 31 Old 07-19-2011, 02:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pteittinen View Post
How did you create MVC-in-MP4 files? Also, I don't think TMPGEnc AW4 is able to create a Blu-ray 3D disc structure.
Take a look at message #172 in the 3D Editing Room from markr041 for the project settings to burn a 3D MP4 file. (Sorry but I am not familiar with how to include the link to that message here). I saved that project and each time I start a new project I open that one and "save as" with a new name. This way, the MP4 settings will always be there. i did the same with the settings to create an ISO 3D image.

I started a Blu Ray project in TMPGEnc AW4 and imported the MP4 file without a menu. I burned the disk to a BD-RE and played it in my Panny GT30 assuming it would not work, but it played in 3D. Next up for me is to either try to put in chapters in that single track or add a second track to see if both tracks will play in 3D.

It is baby steps for me. So far it is working. I recall my first efforts several years ago trying to edit HD clips and create HD Blu Ray disks. That was a nightmare compared to how easily, for me, at least it is to create 3D Blu ray disks from ISO images and MP4 files.

This forum has been a fountain of indispensable knowledge.

Good luck and let me know what happens.

Marty
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post #20 of 31 Old 07-19-2011, 04:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jraaronson View Post

lol. This new option lets you put the sound in the right file INSTEAD of the left file. Is it really such a big deal to get sound in BOTH files? I don't understand why it makes sense to create a soundless file, especially if something goes wrong and re-syncing must be done down the line. Can someone who knows Peter please ask him to include a "sound in both files" option? He's never replied to my emails.

I like it better this way. If you have audio in both files, the paired file has two sets of audio tracks. You have to delete one. When only a single video file has the audio, you pair the clips and you're ready to edit.

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post #21 of 31 Old 07-20-2011, 03:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Videoguy68 View Post

Take a look at message #172 in the 3D Editing Room from markr041 for the project settings to burn a 3D MP4 file.

That post describes how to render AVC-encoded side-by-side 3D files. You could burn those files on a DVD (provided they fit) or play them from any external memory device your playback system supports; they have nothing to do with MVC or Blu-ray 3D.

Please, feel free to call me by my first name, Petri.
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post #22 of 31 Old 07-20-2011, 07:22 PM
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Quote: 3Dmadman: It took me a few postings to get people to tell me the secrets because I got some really obscure answers. But this is it, step by step and it works, guaranteed, with a TD10 3D clip:

Import your clip with "projects settings": 108060i, interlaced template. Set stereo mode to anaglyph (so you can see the 3D) in the menu.

Then the clip is in the 'project media' area. Here is the key thing you do: right click on the clip, and then go to properties. In properties: set 'stereoscopic 3D mode' from none to 'pair with next stream', done.

Then move the clip to the timeline. You should see one video stream, one audio stream and your clip will play as anaglyph 3D with sound.

Try that.

If that is all working, you then go to file, 'render as', and get a menu. Here you choose what you render to.

Choose Sony avc/mvc, template 'internet 1920x1080-30p'
Then select 'custom'.

In custom menu select in video tab entropy 'CABAC,' profile 'High,' whatever bitrate you want (16,000,000). Then go to the 'Project' tab on the bottom, select in 'stereoscopic 3D mode': side-by-side half (surely that will play in the player; choose side-by-side full if you know that will play.

Click ok, name your file (it will be an MP4 file), and save. It will render as a 3D 1/2sbs.

You could also from 'render as' make a fully-compliant bluray with just a few clicks.
Unquote



This is a quote of the entire message. Look at the line that says "it will be an MP4 file". It IS an MP4 file that I was able to burn to a Blu Ray 3D disk using TMPGEnc AW4 that plays as 3D in my Panny GT30.

Isn't that what you want?

Marty
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post #23 of 31 Old 07-20-2011, 07:32 PM
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What Petri is saying is that's it's just a side by side 3D file, whereas you seemed to be saying that the process creates MVC files. 3D MVC files can be wrapped in an mp4 container, but not all mp4's are MVC. A side by side 3D mp4 file does not contain 3D MVC video.

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post #24 of 31 Old 07-21-2011, 06:30 AM
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Joe:

I wasn't trying to impy creation of an MVC file, just a 3D MP4 file that TMPGEnc AW4 could use to create a working 3D Blu Ray disc. Sorry if I confused anyone.

Marty
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post #25 of 31 Old 07-21-2011, 08:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Videoguy68 View Post

I wasn't trying to impy creation of an MVC file, just a 3D MP4 file that TMPGEnc AW4 could use to create a working 3D Blu Ray disc. Sorry if I confused anyone.

I got confused by your usage of "3D Blu Ray". What you're creating is not a Blu-ray 3D disc, but a regular Blu-ray which contains side-by-side 3D content. There's a difference!

Please, feel free to call me by my first name, Petri.
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post #26 of 31 Old 07-21-2011, 08:18 PM
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Originally Posted by pteittinen View Post

I got confused by your usage of "3D Blu Ray". What you're creating is not a Blu-ray 3D disc, but a regular Blu-ray which contains side-by-side 3D content. There's a difference!

Now you have me curious. What exactly is the difference?
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post #27 of 31 Old 07-21-2011, 08:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Videoguy68 View Post

Now you have me curious. What exactly is the difference?

Blu-ray 3D discs contain MVC (left eye and right eye difference) files that the new generation of 3D TVs can understand. What you've been referring to is a regular Blu-ray disc that simply has side by side 3D content on it. As such, it can be played from any Blu-ray player, as long as the 3D TV understands and can play side by side video. Side by side video has the half-resolution left eye view on the left side of the frame and the half-resolution right eye view on the right side of the frame. In Blu-ray 3D both eye views are full resolution.

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post #28 of 31 Old 07-22-2011, 04:19 AM
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sorry if this is posted in wrong area but i have a movie which is a dmz 3d 1920 by 1080 file and it will not work on the ps3.it starts to play then freezes.is there a converter that will work to change it to a file the ps3 will allow to play.it plays fine on the computer.
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post #29 of 31 Old 07-25-2011, 08:27 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joseph Clark View Post

I like it better this way. If you have audio in both files, the paired file has two sets of audio tracks. You have to delete one. When only a single video file has the audio, you pair the clips and you're ready to edit.

sadly, we ran into an issue today, and we really needed audio to match sync, and there was no audio on one track because of the current limitation of the software. Could you ask Peter if he could put the option in to include audio in both tracks? Obviously the software is able to include audio on either track, so I can't imagine this is a difficult thing to add.

thanks
jack
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post #30 of 31 Old 07-26-2011, 11:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jraaronson View Post

sadly, we ran into an issue today, and we really needed audio to match sync, and there was no audio on one track because of the current limitation of the software. Could you ask Peter if he could put the option in to include audio in both tracks? Obviously the software is able to include audio on either track, so I can't imagine this is a difficult thing to add.

thanks
jack

I don't know that I have any special "pull" with Peter. I'm a little vague as to what your problem is. The software right now allows you to select which clip has the audio, so why is there a sync problem? Aren't you using both clips?

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