New High Quality 3D Capture - not limited to 28Mbit/s! - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 11 Old 08-06-2011, 03:56 PM - Thread Starter
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http://blackmagic-design.com/product...io3d/features/

Requires a Mac with Thunderbolt I/O, running OSX 10.6.

Should be possible to use a 2011 MacBook Pro, TD10/TD1/etc. hooked up (live) via HDMI 1.4a to capture high-quality, uncompressed RGB 444 (or lightly compressed 422, etc.). RAID or SSD probably also needed (Not likely to get better quality playing back compressed material from camera). If possible to compress directly to workflow format (ProRes 422, etc.), would save demux and transcode time.

Curious if the increase in quality is worth the extra cost (portability not an issue for studio / fixed location work).
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post #2 of 11 Old 08-07-2011, 12:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnSchultz View Post

http://blackmagic-design.com/product...io3d/features/

Requires a Mac with Thunderbolt I/O, running OSX 10.6.

Should be possible to use a 2011 MacBook Pro, TD10/TD1/etc. hooked up (live) via HDMI 1.4a to capture high-quality, uncompressed RGB 444 (or lightly compressed 422, etc.). RAID or SSD probably also needed (Not likely to get better quality playing back compressed material from camera). If possible to compress directly to workflow format (ProRes 422, etc.), would save demux and transcode time.

Curious if the increase in quality is worth the extra cost (portability not an issue for studio / fixed location work).

The quality may or may not be higher. It depends on how the data flows through the camera before it is output to hdmi real time. The path may go through encode and decode before reaching the hdmi. That is, the camera may use the entire record playback path, which is 4:2:0 and 28mbit rate limited before reaching the decode to output hdmi. Other camera designs I've examined from a circuit data flow standpoint have used the entire path for the outputs.

Have you examined the TD10 / TD1 data paths for the live hdmi output, in order to make the claim that you'd be capturing "uncompressed" or "lightly compressed" as opposed to a wide band representation of a signal that is in essence no better than the one that gets recorded to the flash, or does the manufacturer's data sheet say that the live hdmi output is higher quality?

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post #3 of 11 Old 08-07-2011, 05:44 AM - Thread Starter
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I tested the TD10 with the Intensity Pro in 2D at 59.94i. I compared HDMI captured to uncompressed YUV and MJPEG to AVCHD. Both YUV & MJPEG contained more information. YUV had no block artifacts, and MJPEG block artifacts were minor (initial tests had strange aliasing: reset the camera & capture card & aliasing issue went away). So it's possible that the full resolution 3D footage can be captured at a much higher bitrate. On a single fast SSD, uncompressed YUV dropped frames, high-bitrate BMD MJPEG did not.
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post #4 of 11 Old 08-07-2011, 05:13 PM - Thread Starter
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Subjective quality analysis: in addition to H.264 block artifacts, 28Mbit AVCHD (2D) looks like a Gaussian blur of 2 (PPro setting) compared to HDMI. It's not a dramatic difference at 100% zoom (more visible at 200-400%), but my wife can tell the difference cycling between A/B ("'A' looks blurrier").
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post #5 of 11 Old 08-07-2011, 09:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnSchultz View Post

Subjective quality analysis: in addition to H.264 block artifacts, 28Mbit AVCHD (2D) looks like a Gaussian blur of 2 (PPro setting) compared to HDMI. It's not a dramatic difference at 100% zoom (more visible at 200-400%), but my wife can tell the difference cycling between A/B ("'A' looks blurrier").

Very interesting. Which settings are you using on the HDMI output on the TD10? What frame rate is in the HDMI stream? Do you have a monitor that can display that?

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post #6 of 11 Old 08-08-2011, 02:00 AM - Thread Starter
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The only settings that I could get to work with this somewhat early Intensity Pro card are 1080i (59.94) and 720p (59.94). You can monitor the capture live in Media Express (included with Black Magic hardware) as well as PPro (F5 to bring up the capture window). Audio is also captured from the camera via HDMI. The Intensity Pro also has an HDMI output (haven't needed it, but could hook up to my desktop HDTV).

A little more searching around the BMD website: http://blackmagic-design.com/product...linkhdextreme/ ($829 via Amazon). So, for around the same price it's possible to use a PCI Express card to do the same thing as the Thunderbolt device (which appears to only be usable right now with a 2011 Macbook Pro). It also works on both PC and Mac. For live capture, the PCI device would be more limited vs. the Thunderbolt device which could more easily be set up on location using a laptop.

These devices would also provide an upgrade path to capture live from higher end dual cameras, such as a pair of Sony FS100's, F3's, Reds, Alexas, etc. (side by side or mounted on a beam splitter), with live 3D monitoring on an HDTV (again, most useful for studio work).
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post #7 of 11 Old 08-12-2011, 02:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnSchultz View Post

The only settings that I could get to work with this somewhat early Intensity Pro card are 1080i (59.94) and 720p (59.94). You can monitor the capture live in Media Express (included with Black Magic hardware) as well as PPro (F5 to bring up the capture window). Audio is also captured from the camera via HDMI. The Intensity Pro also has an HDMI output (haven't needed it, but could hook up to my desktop HDTV).

A little more searching around the BMD website: http://blackmagic-design.com/product...linkhdextreme/ ($829 via Amazon). So, for around the same price it's possible to use a PCI Express card to do the same thing as the Thunderbolt device (which appears to only be usable right now with a 2011 Macbook Pro). It also works on both PC and Mac. For live capture, the PCI device would be more limited vs. the Thunderbolt device which could more easily be set up on location using a laptop.

These devices would also provide an upgrade path to capture live from higher end dual cameras, such as a pair of Sony FS100's, F3's, Reds, Alexas, etc. (side by side or mounted on a beam splitter), with live 3D monitoring on an HDTV (again, most useful for studio work).

On the Sony TD10 hdmi output menu there are options (from my memory) for AUTO, Frame Pack, and SBS, Which can you use?

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post #8 of 11 Old 08-12-2011, 11:33 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Adams View Post

On the Sony TD10 hdmi output menu there are options (from my memory) for AUTO, Frame Pack, and SBS, Which can you use?

The TD10 won't output any 3D format if the HDMI doesn't report 3D capable. I tried SBS, figuring I could try a live capture, but the camera outputs 2D, even when that setting is enabled (the LCD continues to display 3D). BMD's 3D capture devices should report 3D capable via HDMI, allowing 3D capture in either format. In case it wasn't clear, I used an older Intensity Pro card just to test quality over HDMI from the TD10. One of the newer 3D devices from BMD are required to capture 3D.
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post #9 of 11 Old 09-28-2011, 02:19 PM
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Anyone is tested Ultrastudio3D with TD10 ?
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post #10 of 11 Old 09-28-2011, 10:07 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vsv View Post

Anyone is tested Ultrastudio3D with TD10 ?

A buddy of mine just got one for 2D work; haven't checked it out with my TD10 (he's not a 3D guy). However, I would expect it to work OK as I have tested the TD10 on a fairly old Intensity Pro and it worked OK (captured 2D when TD10 set to 3D).

Until Thunderbolt PCIe cards are available, the DeckLink HD Extreme 3D should work with the TD10 (Ultrastudio 3D is a good match for the new MacBook Pros with Thunderbolt ports).
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post #11 of 11 Old 09-07-2013, 09:30 PM
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This started off as such a promising thread.
Anyway, The z1000 can be used with Ultrastudio 3d to capture HDMI.
I have just bought a TD10 - so I will test with ultrastudio 3d when I receive it.
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