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post #31 of 614 Old 11-27-2011, 06:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by W.Mayer View Post

than this unit was a brocken one.
the resolution was less what the sony can do and much less what the jvc can show.
may you take a look here where i post pictures from jvc and sony.
this panasonic have less that both of them.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1335637

it was a pal version we test it with 50i.
hope we can post some pictures soon.

This is disappointing. I was getting excited about the Panasonic. But if the resolution is less than either the Sony or my JVC, I'll pass. Looking forward to those pictures.

If it turns out that I like the upcoming version of Edius as a 3D editor, and it supports the JVC 3D footage natively, I might just end up upgrading to the JVC HMZ1 pro version after all. That way, I could continue to use my Cyclopital3D stereo base extender and close-up adapters. I really like both of them, and the HMZ1 has a ton of manual features, even more than the TD1.

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post #32 of 614 Old 11-28-2011, 02:15 AM
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Same here Joe- I'm pretty sure I won't be making a move until after NAB when Sony will be showing it's latest. The more accessories you collect, makes it harder to switch too. Seems all you need now is a good edit solution for the JVC.
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post #33 of 614 Old 11-28-2011, 01:14 PM
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The Cineform edit solution is very good, but it's tedious and hard drive gobbling. I'll wait, too, unless I get involved in another big project (unlikely), or I happen on a great deal for the HMZ1. Mainly, I want to be able to shoot at 24p. If I could do that with the TD1, I wouldn't be thinking about a change at this point. With it's dual triple-CMOS chips, I thought the Panasonic would beat the JVC for picture quality. If that's not the case, it makes no sense for me to get it.

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post #34 of 614 Old 11-28-2011, 03:09 PM
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i will post by end of this week a link to the test we did at a lab.
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post #35 of 614 Old 11-30-2011, 09:55 PM
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... I will have my PANA in 1 hour from now.... It´s landed in Germany and ready for pickup. No price yet... but I need the item...

I will come back soon with first impressions and samples...

X-mas is a little earlier for me those days...

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post #36 of 614 Old 12-01-2011, 10:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by W.Mayer View Post

i saw the unit compare it to sony and jvc 3d cam and sorry i can not say more at this time i cancel my pre order!

I would welcome more details. I had hoped to have it by Thanksgiving so I could use it for the holidays but since it didn't ship in time I guess I will now wait for more feedback from others as well.
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post #37 of 614 Old 12-01-2011, 11:41 AM
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well, my PANA-dealer said, I am one of the first in Europe having it.

First impression was: WOW...
A professional thing with TC, Zebra and everything you need...
After playing around with TD10 and TD1 there is the handle back......

So unfortunately (for my family...) I will spend the whole night in testing things. I´ll come back soon with details....

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post #38 of 614 Old 12-01-2011, 12:04 PM
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I just got word from B&H Photo that the Z10k is available now for $3,495. Availability might be limited. I'll wait for resolution tests and real world reviews before buying. One thing I've gotten used to with the JVC is very high resolution images, at least when the light is adequate. And all my serious shooting is in good light.

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post #39 of 614 Old 12-01-2011, 03:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthTV View Post

I would welcome more details. I had hoped to have it by Thanksgiving so I could use it for the holidays but since it didn't ship in time I guess I will now wait for more feedback from others as well.

read the other post in this thread and use the link i post inside this post may than you understand.

as soon as i got the go i will post a link to a test we did.
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post #40 of 614 Old 12-03-2011, 09:28 AM - Thread Starter
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Since I was in Croatia for the last week, I got my Z10000 only today. Was waiting for me for 2 days....

And my first impression is also: WOW...! That is the Camcorder I was waiting for. Have not found much time to start to explore it yet, it is now here for 5 hours and I had to work, and will now start to explore it.

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post #41 of 614 Old 12-03-2011, 11:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfgang S. View Post

Since I was in Croatia for the last week, I got my Z10000 only today. Was waiting for me for 2 days....

And my first impression is also: WOW...! That is the Camcorder I was waiting for. Have not found much time to start to explore it yet, it is now here for 5 hours and I had to work, and will now start to explore it.

Do you have a resolution chart that you can use to test how it captures fine detail?

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post #42 of 614 Old 12-03-2011, 06:25 PM - Thread Starter
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I had some resolution charts available as file - have to make a printout and use that. So, no original chart is available. But it will be a time issue to test that, since I have to go back to Croatia on monday.

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post #43 of 614 Old 12-03-2011, 07:27 PM
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Hope you can take it with you and get some images for us next trip home. Good luck on your travels.
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post #44 of 614 Old 12-04-2011, 04:04 AM
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i have to report that the unit we use for a test seems to have a problem.

possible that this unit was a early pal sample with 50 i recording and not show
the detail it can show.

i will possible order my us unit today and make a compare the unit with the jvc and sony.
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post #45 of 614 Old 12-04-2011, 06:25 AM
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I am very keen on getting information about your tests of the Z10k.

I will get my cam on Tuesday or Wednesday. I will report, when I have tested it.

Some wrote about the resolution problem. If it´s a little bit worser than my TD1, then I could live with it. I am looking for an camcorder with good wide-angle and and a good makro-possibility (all of this is a lack of the TD1). That´s the reason why I will buy the z10k.

In any case the perfect camcorder will be always a wish...
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post #46 of 614 Old 12-04-2011, 07:22 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by W.Mayer View Post

i have to report that the unit we use for a test seems to have a problem.

Good, I am interested to see also your impressions, my first impressions can e found in German here: http://www.videotreffpunkt.com/threa...526#post218526

But I summarize also what I have seen up to now, even if that are first impressions really - have not shoot a lot now.

You find the major manual on the CD, there is also a short introduction manual in paper what is nice, but to get an overall picture to read the pdf manual is a must. The menus are similar to what I know from the consumer models Pansonic 750 or 909 - it is similar, but Panasonic has added here a lot of additional features from the professional modes, what allow a lot of manual adjustments and combinations. You find here 7 settings for gamma (like B.Press, Cine-Like D und Cine Like V) and can also choose from 4 color matrices. You can adjust the knee, DRS, Master Pedestrial Chroma Phase and Level und additional sharping (vertically and horizontally). These setting can be combinded in the way you want in 6 presets, and can used whenever you wish to do so. The camcorder comes with some prestored presets that allow you to start without spending a lot of time to come up with some combinations that make sense - but you can adjest that how you wish to do.
I think that this is valueable since that moves the camcorder more toward what professional camcorders are able to do. Given that, you have to be aware that this camcorder is much more complex, compared with the "simple" JVC TD1 or Sony TD10, and it may take take some time to learn and test the presets and to adjust them.

The major functions like white balance, black balance, focus, iris and gain can all be adjusted in a manual way, also for 3D. For the white balance for example, you find fixed settings for 3200K but also for 5600K. You have also an automatic mode, you can lock the wb, but have in addition two posititions where you can store two manual adjusted wb settings. As far as I have seen, the wb function works nice.

All of the settings, that are blocked in the TD10 or TD1, can be manual adjusted also in 3D. The iris and the gain are combined, what is maybe a little bit new, but my first tests with the typicial lowlight situation in a room with lower light - it was a gey day and I did not use additional light for my check - showed, that the noise in the camcorder does not come up significantly, I have checked that on myl large 3D HDTV. So from that side the combination of gain and iris is fine for me. The manual adjustment of gain with the large wheel works fine.

Manual focus can be done with another wheel, and there is also a support function marking the sharp areas in red - nice. There is also a push focus function, if you decide to put that on your programmable bottoms (there are 3 physical bottoms and 4 shown on the display).

The whole concept of using the camcorder is an interesting combination of using bottoms, but also to use your fingers and the tough screen interface. I see that as a great combination, but it is something new - where you have both elements from consumer camcorders but also from more professional camcorders.

The camcorder is not very heavy, and is quite well balanced in your hands. All togehter nice even if you feel the weight of the camcorder after some time.

For the display, I have to state that it does not have the good quality as we know it from the Sony TD10, but it is better then what I have seen from the JVC TD1 - so somewhere in the middle. The 3D effect #on the display# is weaker compared with the Sony display, but there are some additional features that makes the adjustment of the convergence really nice. Even in the settings as delivered there is a 3D function on one of the manual bottoms where you can reset the convergence - what is nice. The convergence can be adjusted between C00 and C99, what is nice. In addition you see a calculation of the deep bracket, so the distance from you to the near object and the most distance object, what I have not seen with the TD10. That allows a great control. More important, you can switch with that bottom from 3D - mixed - 3D off - again 3D. This kind of "mixed" picture shows both video parts, and is great to adjust the convergence point for the movie. I have not seen a better control of the convergency up to now, the TD10 suffers from the fact that the only check is the picture, what may suffer from sunshine a lot. So all together, the unit is great in 3D convergence adjustment and controll.

To have an first impression of the 3D deep feeling I have connected the camcorder to my 3D HDTV, and looked to the 3D picture. First of all, you have two adjustment possibilies for the later size of the 3D monitor - what is nice since we know that this makes a difference. What I have seen here is good - so, the 3D display on the camcorder is not so fine as we know it from the TD10, but the 3D effect on the 3D plasma is nice. I have to state that I have done that up to now only in my room, what is up to 7 or 8 meters - so here additional testing is required.

I have not testet the internal 5.1 microfon yet, nor the XLR-possibilities - but especially for the XLR you can connect whatever microphon you wish to use, what is great. The internal microfon can be adjusted with the two small wheels if it is set to 2.0 audio, what may be fine for many shootings.

All together, what I have seen up to now in the first hours, the camcorder is an impressive machine. For resolution tests we have some tests in the German slashcam forum, what states that both 2D and 3D behaves similar.
Who want to see some luminancecharts or an iso chart can have a look to that page:

http://www.slashcam.de/artikel/Test/...zit.html#Aus_d

All togehter my first impressions are that this is really the camcorder that I have waited for. It may not be perceived as really cheap, but compared with the possibilities I have seen from both the TD10 and the TD1 I am really impressed up to now.

Kind regards,
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post #47 of 614 Old 12-04-2011, 08:24 AM
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Wolfgang- Thanks for the links and your brief first impressions. I used Google translate and that helped getting through the language barrier. I had German in High School but that was many decades ago.

May I make a suggestion for a real world test I am particularly interested in? This is for noise generated in very low light conditions. Initially, I have to say that the TD10 performs very well in this test. If the Z10000 does the same I will be happy.

On a very clear night sky set the Z10000 to auto (IA) and aim to the sky to see the stars. If the moon is out OK to shoot that too but need to just frame stars only for the real hard test.

Then put the cam in manual mode and open up the iris to see how that looks.


Compare the black sky in the shot. Poor results are a black that is very grainy and lots of video noise making it look almost gray. Excellent results would be looking just like it does to your eyes.

My HDR SR12 camera cannot do this test without some visible noise in the blacks but the TD10 produces live like noise free appearance. The TD10 has a setting in the menus to achieve this excellent low light look.
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post #48 of 614 Old 12-04-2011, 09:29 AM
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Thanks, Wolfgang, and W.Mayer. This is much more encouraging news, and what I was hoping to hear.

If you get a chance, I'd love to see some macro shots. I can get very close with my Clyclopital3D adapter with the JVC - so much so that I'm getting hooked on macro photography. I'm going to be able to use a much higher percentage of macro shots than stereo base extender shots in my Garden project. (Not hard to understand, given the Garden's massive collection of flora.) From what I've read, I may be able to get just about as close even without a macro lens with the Panny.

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post #49 of 614 Old 12-04-2011, 10:26 AM - Thread Starter
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The issue with the stars-test here in Vienna is, that - at least at this time in the year - we tend to have clouds all the time. So that is hard to perform at the moment.

I did some tests with the TD10 some time ago, shooting footage in my garden in the night, with some lights shining from the house into the garden. The TD10 had significant noise, but maybe I would have to choose a special mode? Maybe I can do something similar, but I think that will take some time - and should be similar for both Z10000 and TD10.

The Z10000 has a 3D macro modus, as far as I have seen - but I have not tested that now.

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post #50 of 614 Old 12-05-2011, 07:21 AM
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The "low noise" is relative to prior Sony cameras. The TD10 is especially good in low light compared to my SR12. Maybe you are using a much better camera and find the TD10 not so good. If the noise is very low, shooting stars and fireworks looks especially stunning with a pure black sky vs. one that looks like it was shot with a night scope.

The setup I have used is to turn on low lux in the menus and then set the exposure to manual and back off until the stars just light up. This makes the blacks very black and not noisy at all.

Have a good trip.
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post #51 of 614 Old 12-05-2011, 08:33 AM - Thread Starter
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You may laugh, but I had also the idea with the firework, maybe with new year.

I have just returned from my trip to Zagreb, was this time only a one day trip. I have not to stay there for the rest of the week, so maybe I find the time to play a little bit more with the Z1x.

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post #52 of 614 Old 12-05-2011, 12:58 PM
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I've shot several fireworks shows and they are the most challenging of all the 3D work so far. I plan to be shooting another at Disney in 2 weeks. I plan to shoot it with an IA of 9" Can't decide whether to shoot it in 24p or 60i. I shot the last one in 60i but only used a single TD10.
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post #53 of 614 Old 12-06-2011, 01:48 AM - Thread Starter
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Yes, I know that to shoot a firework is a challenging work - and here I do not have a lot of expience. Maybe it is easier to come up with another lowlight situation and to compare that.

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post #54 of 614 Old 12-06-2011, 02:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Landis View Post

I've shot several fireworks shows and they are the most challenging of all the 3D work so far. I plan to be shooting another at Disney in 2 weeks. I plan to shoot it with an IA of 9" Can't decide whether to shoot it in 24p or 60i. I shot the last one in 60i but only used a single TD10.


Sounds close to the time I'll be there in Orlando. If I see someone with a 3D rig I'll know its you. I'll just have the single unit Sony 3D video camera in tow.
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post #55 of 614 Old 12-06-2011, 05:53 AM - Thread Starter
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Would be great to be in Orlando again - I loved it really.

Who wishes to have a better understanding of the presets - Panasonic calls it scene files - may wish to look into that older document. It is for the HMC150, but the settings seem to be exactly the same as in the Z10000:

http://www.google.at/url?sa=t&rct=j&...S3WLnxbYhPpd9A

To my opinion, that seems to make a great difference to a TD10 and TD1.

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post #56 of 614 Old 12-06-2011, 06:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthTV View Post

Sounds close to the time I'll be there in Orlando. If I see someone with a 3D rig I'll know its you. I'll just have the single unit Sony 3D video camera in tow.

16th and 17th Not sure yet whether I'll be going in Friday night. I hear the crowds will be huge. I wanted go in the middle of the week but my wife couldn't get off from work. We live just 2 hours from Disney so we can visit several time a year.
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post #57 of 614 Old 12-06-2011, 08:57 AM - Thread Starter
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So you will be at Disney at the beginning of the new year? Great. Vienna is a little bit too far away.

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post #58 of 614 Old 12-06-2011, 10:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Landis View Post

16th and 17th Not sure yet whether I'll be going in Friday night. I hear the crowds will be huge. I wanted go in the middle of the week but my wife couldn't get off from work. We live just 2 hours from Disney so we can visit several time a year.

Sorry to others for veering off topic. We will actually be there just after the weekend. Hope the holiday crowds won't be too bad yet.
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post #59 of 614 Old 12-07-2011, 12:49 PM
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I can't recall if this review has been linked to before. It's French, so get ready to have Google translate it for you. If it's already been posted before, please ignore it. There are 3 clips taken with the camera, and some resolution test pics. They look quite good.

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post #60 of 614 Old 12-07-2011, 01:12 PM
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Watching the MTS clips from the French review, I was struck by how much more accurate red looks than on video shot with my JVC. Under some conditions (not all), reds "bloom" or smear with the TD1. I'm not seeing that with the Panny. Of course, it's just 3 clips, but it appears to me that the Panasonic reproduces reds significantly better.

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