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post #121 of 564 Old 12-03-2011, 02:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Landis View Post

Joe- Just to repeat:

Using twin cams in 2D mode to create a left and right eye 1080 24p x 1920 and then pair, correct in Vegas- output to my work flow TB Full then generate a Blu Ray disk at 1080 24p in PD10 as test 1

Test 2 was shoot with TD10 in normal 60i MVC mode and render same work flow as test 1 to make a BD-RE in PD10

I could not say there were ANY detectible motion artifacts in either test when viewed on my Sony VPL VW90ES projector ( 240Hz ).

On my Vizio (60Hz), both tests suffered the same level of less smooth motion.

I'm not talking stuttering or hesitation as there was none of that throughout. I'm talking about constant less smooth look.

Not sure I posted this but since, I viewed a commercially made Blu Ray in the player and viewed on the Vizio and it had the same degree of not so smooth motion as my PD10 made BD-RE tests.

My conclusion was that the latest workflows and software versions produce a product that is equal in quality to commercially made 1080 24p 3DBD with respect to motion. I agree that technically, not having to do a conversion from 1080 60i to 24p is better, but I don't think it results in obvious improvement visually. Maybe this would be a different story with the JVC MVC format but it doesn't matter with the TD10.

I'd like someone else to do the test to compare but I think only Frank here has the capability to set up a pair of JVC's in 1080 24p twin cam mode. Plus, his JVC's suffered a defect as I recall. If someone has a Pro version that shoots in 24p we could also do it that way. But, I would only trust the results if it was done in double blind testing.

OK, I'll have to try that workflow. The problem is that I have yet to upgrade to Vegas 11 - too much other stuff going on with family, holidays and organizational issues with my video. I'll do the upgrade before Christmas.

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post #122 of 564 Old 12-03-2011, 06:13 PM
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@Don regarding slow emulation- adding a faster video card should help given your description of the problem. I use VMWare Player in Win7x64 to run legacy XP apps (free, possibly better/faster than XP Mode): http://www.vmware.com/products/player/
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post #123 of 564 Old 12-03-2011, 07:31 PM
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John- I had downloaded a demo of VMware before getting the new edit system last August and I didn't quite understand it so it failed my test to use on old windows 3.0 application that worked in win XP.
I think I'm going to give the spare video card a try and see if it helps
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post #124 of 564 Old 12-04-2011, 10:34 AM
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Dan- just an update and then I think we should put the off topic to rest.

I determined that the sluggishness in the window of XP mode had to do with two background operations running that I did not realize at the time. They were a computer scan for viruses and an automated backup to my network drive. When those aren't active the operation is smooth. Also, I believe to run the higher end graphics card I will need to upgrade the power supply. So, to rethink my needs, I will just use the business computer as is for now. Everything else is working great. Just have to be aware that it will be sluggish if intensive background apps are working.
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post #125 of 564 Old 12-04-2011, 11:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Landis View Post

Dan- just an update and then I think we should put the off topic to rest.

Roger that Don. There is "some" fun to all this tweak'n! In a separate thread in due course would like to see your opinion of what Sony is marketing with Vegas Studio, "HitFilm".

Best regards,
Dan
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post #126 of 564 Old 12-05-2011, 07:00 AM
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Quote:
would like to see your opinion of what Sony is marketing with Vegas Studio, "HitFilm".

Have to admit, I didn't know about this new kid on the block for 3D. On first glance, I don't see anything with a WOW factor over my current work flow to get from shoot (with TD10) to finished 3DBD using Vegas Pro and PD10 work flow. Need to study it more to see if there are any hidden goodies to add to my bag of tricks.
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post #127 of 564 Old 12-17-2011, 05:36 AM - Thread Starter
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A new update - both for Vegas Pro 11 but also for Vegas Moviestudio HD platinum 11 - is available.

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post #128 of 564 Old 12-17-2011, 08:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfgang S. View Post

A new update - both for Vegas Pro 11 but also for Vegas Moviestudio HD platinum 11 - is available.

Ya, the Sony tech/rep still working on the 3d monitor issue sent me an email to try it out, no change on 3d monitor problem with GTX cards but did fix a bunch of stuff. I'll see what he wants to try next.

All in all, I'm in happy land as with this forum, you guys, and lots of fiddling, I get great vid, with some editing toys to make some great sbs hidef for my 3d projector, which was my goal.

Thanks and have a Merry Christmas.
Dan
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post #129 of 564 Old 12-23-2011, 06:51 AM
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Just wanted to post that I just completed two projects shot in true 1080 24p using my twin cam slide bench and a third shot in TD10 3D 1080 60i. Each was edited in Vegas Pro v11 (before this latest update) and the results were all identical with respect to jerky, and stuttering motion. No judder what so ever. The finished timeline was burned to 3DBD at 1080 24P MVC. This gave me a good comparison of 108024P native with 108060i converted to 1080 24p in Vegas. The review monitor was a 240 Hz Sony 90ES projector on a 110" screen.
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post #130 of 564 Old 12-23-2011, 07:06 AM
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Any chance you could post some short samples?

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post #131 of 564 Old 12-23-2011, 07:51 AM
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Thanks for that, Don. Would the results be the same with 3D 1080 30p?
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post #132 of 564 Old 12-23-2011, 09:44 AM
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Joe- You need to check out my YouTube site. I uploaded the 3 video projects. The Electrical Parade was shot in TD10 3D native and the other two shot in 24P, paired in Vegas. All three are at night but the smooth motion of all three is obvious.

I did see one jump cut in the Electrical Parade and I will need to fix that for the BluRay version, but the overall motion is completely smooth. I will say we've come a long way in the past 6 months with this process.

Would the results be the same with 3D 1080 30p?
I'm not sure I can shoot in native 1080 30p nor would I want to.

My goal is to shoot in 1080 24p x 1920 or shoot in TD10 3D native a get equal motion quality as I do with native 1080 24p using a camcorder designed for that mode.

1080 24p x 1920 is the 3DBD compatible mode.
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post #133 of 564 Old 12-23-2011, 09:59 AM
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Thanks, Don. Yes, we have come a long way. Speaking of which...

I downloaded the 3D beta of Edius the other day and it looks like it will be a contender, too. It accepts my JVC files natively. I haven't fed it tough motion shots yet, but so far motion looks pretty good. It won't burn to 3D Blu-ray, but it does export 24p mp4 (and m2ts) MVC files that go right into PowerDirector 10, where burning to 3D Blu-ray should be easy. I haven't had time to experiment much yet, but it's a relief not being forced to convert to Cineform intermediate before editing. Unfortunately, I have yet to figure out how to adjust convergence. I can zoom in and adjust the position of the 3D frame and that works very well, but I haven't been able to get the convergence control to have any effect. It might just be that they haven't implemented the feature yet, or I could be missing something.

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post #134 of 564 Old 12-23-2011, 11:06 AM
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Speaking of convergence... I just looked at one of my uploads and it is all screwed up in YT. The Magic Memories and You video needs to be fixed. The original file looks fine here but the upload version looks like the 3D is backwards but the swap doesn't fix it. They keep changing the upload interface so it's probably something I did wrong.

Hope you can get Edius to work for editing. While I like PD10 for BluRay authoring, I never have been excited about the editing. I plan to stick with Vegas Pro for now.
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post #135 of 564 Old 12-23-2011, 11:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Landis View Post

Speaking of convergence... I just looked at one of my uploads and it is all screwed up in YT. The Magic Memories and You video needs to be fixed. The original file looks fine here but the upload version looks like the 3D is backwards but the swap doesn't fix it. They keep changing the upload interface so it's probably something I did wrong.

Hope you can get Edius to work for editing. While I like PD10 for BluRay authoring, I never have been excited about the editing. I plan to stick with Vegas Pro for now.

PD10 isn't an industrial strength video editor. If Vegas supported my JVC files natively, I wouldn't be considering Edius as much as I am. It's not like I'm dying to climb yet another steep, expensive learning curve.

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post #136 of 564 Old 12-25-2011, 04:46 AM
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I am having some trouble with Vegas 11, updated from 10.0e

When I convert my JVC MVC files with MVC to AVI converter using the Matrox MPEG-2 I Frame HD then import the left and right images into Vegas and pair as a stereo scopic image I am having no problems.

When I start a project it only lets me choose the template that says "Custom (1920x1080. 23.976fps when I choose Side by Side full for the 3D mode. This causes the video to be only widescreen... If I choose any other template it will not allow SBS full on.
So I am forced to use this template. I pair as a stereoscopic subclip and drop to the timeline, the preview is still widescreen.
I then go to Render as and choose Sony AVC/MVC and choose the MVC 1920x1080-24p, 25Mbps video stream and try to make it into a .m2ts file. The render just sits there and does nothing at all, the counter counts up getting longer but nothing goes on. Same if I try .avc or .mp4

On 10.0e I could do this with no problems, 11 won't let me. I really hate the damn new style they have done here, its confusing and crappy for me. All I wanna do is make my clips into the highest quality full SBS clips I can.. Vegas won't let me anymore? Am I doing something wrong?

Also when I choose Render as, Mainconcept MPEG-2 blu-ray 1920x1080 24p 25mbs it renders it widescreen... WHY?! I want full screen!

3D items I own:

Sony 46" LX900 active 3D set

Sony HMZ-T3 (Cushion pads and light blocker mod)

LG LW6500 passive 3D set

PS3 & PS4

Sony BDP-S570 BD3D player

JVC-GS-TD1 (with Cyclopital base extender)

Fujifilm W3

Sony Alpha 55 (for 3D panoramic photos)

Quadcopter + Zenmuse and GoPro Hero 3 (Filming...

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post #137 of 564 Old 12-25-2011, 04:13 PM
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Why do you need SBS? Can you use TB Full? TB is what I use. when going to PD10 for disk authoring. If going directly to disk from Vegas I use the render MVC in Tools Burn Disk and render an ISO file.
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post #138 of 564 Old 12-25-2011, 11:57 PM
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TB full made it worse,stretched and widescreen looked horible. Vegas 11 has given me nothing but problems.

3D items I own:

Sony 46" LX900 active 3D set

Sony HMZ-T3 (Cushion pads and light blocker mod)

LG LW6500 passive 3D set

PS3 & PS4

Sony BDP-S570 BD3D player

JVC-GS-TD1 (with Cyclopital base extender)

Fujifilm W3

Sony Alpha 55 (for 3D panoramic photos)

Quadcopter + Zenmuse and GoPro Hero 3 (Filming...

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post #139 of 564 Old 12-26-2011, 03:27 AM - Thread Starter
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What exactly are you talking about?

If you wish to edit a sbs-full projekt in Vegas, you should adjust the project settings to 3840x1080. And you have to set the preview also to such a figure. Also, you have to set the media properties of the stream in your timeline to sbs full.

With the Sony AVC encoder, you are not able to render to sbs full - that works only up to 2K, so if you use the Sony AVC/MVC encoder you can render such a footage to MVC only, or sbs half. If you wish to render to sbs full, you can use the Mainconcept AVC encoder, where you can adjust the render settings to sbs full too.

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post #140 of 564 Old 12-26-2011, 09:12 AM
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Right! and for TB Full the pixel size must be configured to 2160v x 1920h. The only reason I stopped using SBS Full was because I could never get a clean render on the left side image. I posted the artifact results some time back. TB Full works great here.

If I were you using a JVC I would stick to an edit package that supported the JVC. Presently that is PD10. Soon, also Edius when it comes out of Beta. I understand it is costly to be switching all the time but that is a consequence of the decisions you made including being on the cutting edge of the technology.
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post #141 of 564 Old 12-26-2011, 10:51 AM - Thread Starter
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WARNING: especially for 3D important - if you update to 510/511, you will see an issue with the key frames. They are shifted to left, also in the 3D plugin of Vegas. More important: I have not been able to adjust keyframes, generated in the earlier build of Vegas. I can generate and modfiy new one, but I cannot continue a project started in the earlier version. This keyframe bug - well, as long as that is not corrected I will stay with the earlier version of Vegas.

There is only one important issue for Z10000 user - or user who wish to edit 3D 24p. The new mvc-decoder has been introduced with Vegas 11 b510/511 only. So it is worthwile to save that encoder, if you wish to edit such a footage and wish to go back to an earlier version of Vegas 11 Pro.

To do so, perform following steps:

- install build 510/511 and go to the directory Vegas Pro 11.0/FieldOPlug-Ins/mvcplug
- save the file mvcplug.dll to an external place
- go back to the older version (deinstall 510/511 and reinstall the older one, or playback an image if you have)
- go to the same directory, make a security copy of the original file mvcplug.dll in the earlier Vegas version, and put in the newer file in that folder.

Without any guarantee!

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post #142 of 564 Old 12-26-2011, 11:07 PM
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Thanks for the heads up. I have not yet upgraded and will remain at b425 until you beta testers get it together. Got your warning just in time as I was planning to upgrade both my systems in the morning.
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post #143 of 564 Old 12-27-2011, 12:59 AM - Thread Starter
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Well, it is up to SCS to get that right. If betatester are allowed to test that, they may be able to catch some of the bugs before they become public.... but they must be allowed to do so. The disadvantage is maybe, that this takes time. I hope that the next build corrects what we have seen now really.

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post #144 of 564 Old 12-27-2011, 10:40 AM
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Warning: v510/32bit also doesn't run anymore under XP, while 370 worked.
Preview speed is a lot faster under XP than win7 (without gpu), so i still stay with v370..
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post #145 of 564 Old 12-27-2011, 11:15 AM - Thread Starter
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XP Support was abondoned with Veags Pro 11 - so if an older build of Vegas 11 runs, fine. But be aware that this is not suppored any more by SCS.

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post #146 of 564 Old 12-27-2011, 11:37 AM
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Yes, i know, but i made many serious project even with frameserver under XP
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post #147 of 564 Old 12-27-2011, 12:16 PM - Thread Starter
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I did not know that older builds worked with XP. If you know that XP is not supported, fine - for sure your decision. But I think that the b370 is still buggy - and beside the actual build 510/511 I still hope that SCS can and will sort that out. But later builds will not run with XP, I think. But as said, your decision how you continue.

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post #148 of 564 Old 12-27-2011, 12:20 PM
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Yes, i'm still not sure. But now more reasons to stay on XP - at least by me.
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post #149 of 564 Old 01-03-2012, 02:29 PM
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Hello,
I would like to change my GPU from a gtx 285 to a gtx 580, but I would like to be sure that could decrease my rendering time.
I have a QX9650@3.3GHz and vegas 11 b511
I just realize that enable GPU acceleration increase the rendering time !! (in preference).
Using a TD10 clip (10 s)
rendering as mp4 MC 1920p 24p 1pass 20Mbits average sbs, (encode mode auto) takes :
- 1:02 s with GPU activated (in preference menu)
- 52 s with GPU Off !!

What happened !! I think that I will test with more clip but that sound that it's better to get a better CPU !

Edit :
new test with burning BR iso 1080p 25MBits/s
GPU on : 52s
GPU off : 56s

Take the same clip and make an overlap of 3 s (fading) :
BR iso : GPU on --> 2:16s / GPU off --> 2:10s
MC AVC : GPU on --> 2:10s / GPU off --> 1:40s !! (and if you set GPU on on the preference menu and CPU only on the encode mode template, the rendering time is 3:25 s !!!)

By default GPU is set to ON. I think to do some more test with GPU accelerated transitions, but I think to definitively set it to off (I only make fading transition and cut on my TD10 clips).
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post #150 of 564 Old 01-03-2012, 11:40 PM - Thread Starter
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If the GPU is weak, compared with the performance of the CPU, then you can end up with longer render times and a weaker preview, if you enable cuda. I had the same situation with my i7 2600K and a Quadro 2000D. Using now a GTX570 brings down the render time, but still does not improve the preview really. So from that side, a really powerfull GPU is required, but on the other hand you may think about to wait with such an investment, given the fact that we see now the emergence of a new GPU generation.

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