The Official VEFXi 3D-Bee Owners' Thread - Page 2 - AVS Forum
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post #31 of 291 Old 10-22-2011, 11:16 AM
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@archer16
The 3D-Bee::trainer has two 3D modes. The first mode is 60Hz side-by-side up to 1080p like the 3D-Bee::home. This will work with most 3DTVs and also 3D-ready projectors that accept side-by-side video. The second mode is 720p 120Hz frame-sequential. This is the mode that works with most inexpensive 3D-ready projectors. When you use the frame sequential mode, you need to change the settings on your video sources to only 720p as the 3D-Bee does not scale. If you don't change the setting, you'll be able to get in to the SBS mode, but when you try to change to the frame-sequential mode, it will kick back to 2D/Bypass if the input resolution is not 720p.

@Steve Tack
The 3D-Bee::home is primarily for 3D TVs, however a few people do have side-by-side projectors which the Home model will also work on up to 1080p resolution. The 3D-Bee::trainer works on 3D TVs up to 1080p in its first 3D mode, and works with the more common type of 720p 120Hz frame-sequential 3D-ready projectors in the second 3D mode.

@sddp
ERRATA for the 3D-Bee::home and 3D-Bee::trainer
When in 2D/Bypass mode, the 3D-Bee will bypass 2D video from the input to the output to enable the viewing of video in 2D if desired. It will also bypass 3D video from input to output for some types of 3D sources. While the 3D-Bee is HDMI certified, some types of 3D sources may have different HDMI characteristics and not be able to bypass through the 3D-Bee. In these situations you can:
Connect these directly to another HDMI input on your TV, or
Add an HDMI splitter where one splitter output goes to the 3D-Bee for conversion of 2D to 3D, and the other splitter output goes to another HDMI input on your TV for viewing original 3D from that video source.

Thanks for all the wonderful feedback from everyone!
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post #32 of 291 Old 10-25-2011, 02:40 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnny905 View Post

@rdjam - Wow, u just got the 3D-Bee a few days ago and your positive comments are already quoted on their website. Do u have any affiliation with the company? Not suggesting anything, just asking...

LOL - no connection, I promise!

I even tried to get an eval unit early, but was unsuccessful - they only had a few and were always sending them places.

That's great tho - didn't know I was up on their site. Too funny!
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post #33 of 291 Old 10-25-2011, 02:44 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by cert3d View Post

the 3D trainer is one of the best 3D iv ever seen. this doesnt even compare to the 3D that is built in the tv with the converter. when watching football on 3D ESPN i can watch better football on sunday ticket or the red zone, and movies are great with the
3D-bee this is the best iv ever seen and your right i can now watch Black Rain on 3D lol. one of my all time favorits.

Yes, I'm very impressed. I ordered "Guns of Navarone" today, just to watch it in 3D - should be interesting.
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post #34 of 291 Old 10-25-2011, 02:49 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freddyi View Post

got a question - with the magnified settings of the 3D Bee Trainer and Professional and close up sitting, do these sometimes create some of the same "crater effect" seen with other 2D to 3D processors? for instance when watching some YouTube videos of a person in a suit and white shirt, the shirt can look like its quite a bit back from the plane of the suit plus the shirt can shift left to right in an amusing and exaggerated way when viewed on an inexpensive processor. (I've only seen the Home's Z- and Z+ settings at this point)

its amazing we get such good performance on the fly vs lengthy & costly studio conversions.

Even tho I have the Pro version, I still prefer the Z- setting at this point.

If and when the Bee does make an error in its depth perception, the mistake is less obvious at the lower setting. At the magnified setting, my impression is that errors are more noticeable.

I'll be playing around with this a lot more - including spending more time on the other modes.

I watched Planet Earth over the weekend, and that was really fantastic in the conversion.
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post #35 of 291 Old 10-26-2011, 07:30 AM - Thread Starter
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Watched Casino Royale last night in 3D - excellent 3D from start to finish. I'm also noticing that in 3D, the contrast appears better than in 2D, and that grain seems to be greatly diminished - possibly because of the slightly different image now reaching each eye.
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post #36 of 291 Old 10-26-2011, 01:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3D-Bee View Post

@Steve Tack
The 3D-Bee::home is primarily for 3D TVs, however a few people do have side-by-side projectors which the Home model will also work on up to 1080p resolution. The 3D-Bee::trainer works on 3D TVs up to 1080p in its first 3D mode, and works with the more common type of 720p 120Hz frame-sequential 3D-ready projectors in the second 3D mode.

I'm interpreting that to mean:

1. The "home" version supports side-by-side, which means each eye gets a 960 x 1080 image.

2. The "trainer" version also supports 720p frame-sequential, which means each eye gets a 1280 x 720 image.

3. The "pro" version can display full 1920 x 1080 HD to each eye, but requires two projectors.

Is that right? If so, is there a version coming that simply supports 1080p frame-sequential with a single projector?
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post #37 of 291 Old 10-27-2011, 03:11 PM
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would love to try one but the price has me waiting. Also the box doesnt do 1080P 3d right?
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post #38 of 291 Old 10-28-2011, 08:44 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dave1969 View Post

would love to try one but the price has me waiting. Also the box doesnt do 1080P 3d right?

It does for me, using the dual box / dual-projector config.

But I'm not totally au-fait with the workings of the single box configurations.

Perhaps 3D-Bee should weigh in on a couple of the questions here..
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post #39 of 291 Old 11-02-2011, 12:02 PM
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Originally Posted by dave1969 View Post

would love to try one but the price has me waiting. Also the box doesnt do 1080P 3d right?

Hi Dave, I just responded on the 3D-Bee Releasing thread to these very questions you have. Here's a copy of what I wrote:

All of the 3D-Bee models output the same format that is input. So if you watch a 1080p movie, it will be converted to 1080p 3D. For our side-by-side conversion we can output 1080p, 1080i and 720p depending on the input.

You may have seen something somewhere about the 3D-Bee::trainer only outputing 720p. The 3D-Bee::trainer is frequently used with frame-sequential projectors which only come in 720p, in those situations the 3D-Bee will output 720p 3D (as output is the same as input), but this is not a limitation of the 3D-Bee but of the projector. On the other hand, the 3D-Bee::trainer also works on 3D TVs and will output 1080p 3D from 1080p sources.

As for pricing, if you're really looking to utilize your 3D TV's 3D display feature, your options other than buying a 3D-Bee are to buy 3D DVDs/Blu-rays and/or subscribe to 3D channels which I promise will eventually cost more than a 3D-Bee. And, even then you will not be able to watch half as much as you'd probably would like to since not everything is available in 3D version or on the available 3D channels. With a one-time purchase of a 3D-Bee you can then watch literally everything in 3D, even B&W movies, home videos and we have the highest quality 2D to 3D conversion currently on the market.
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post #40 of 291 Old 11-02-2011, 12:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dave1969 View Post

would love to try one but the price has me waiting. Also the box doesnt do 1080P 3d right?

That's what I thought too. But having a large home theater, I thought to myself, okay I've got around 250+ DVD/Blu Rays.

Dvd's and BR now go for around $4-10 on average used.
3D BR are about $22-25 or so only when they first come out on sale then they all jump up too $30-39. Just 8 x 3D BRs would cost the same as the 3D-Bee.
Blockbuster has had this sale in their stores for used Blu Rays 5 for $20.
First, I'd have to be a more of a celibrity to uprade all of my DVD'BR to BR which would cost $5,000+ at best. And to top it off all the DVD/BR we have will never go 3D anyways.

Okay, about gaming on PS3 with the 3D Bee. All I can say after being a gamer since atari 2600 (yes die hard gamer as well) I can't and will not play with out the 3D Bee. Ever again! turning off the 3D Bee makes it dull, flat, mundane, and bland.

Okay, now for TV. Um... how many channels are there these days on Direct TV or Dish?
200? 300?
24 hours a day times 300? with trailers and commercials that over 10,000 progam materials a day.
Those shows, movies, commercials, trailers, etc will not be in 3D in a LONG time, if ever. With 3D Bee you have it all, NOW.

If you're getting the basic one, mine as well spend $100 more and get the trainer so you have more options on the - & +

just my 2 cents
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post #41 of 291 Old 11-02-2011, 04:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3D-Bee View Post

All of the 3D-Bee models output the same format that is input. So if you watch a 1080p movie, it will be converted to 1080p 3D. For our side-by-side conversion we can output 1080p, 1080i and 720p depending on the input.

You may have seen something somewhere about the 3D-Bee::trainer only outputing 720p. The 3D-Bee::trainer is frequently used with frame-sequential projectors which only come in 720p, in those situations the 3D-Bee will output 720p 3D (as output is the same as input), but this is not a limitation of the 3D-Bee but of the projector. On the other hand, the 3D-Bee::trainer also works on 3D TVs and will output 1080p 3D from 1080p sources.

As far as I can tell, "converted to 1080p" in this context means that each eye gets a 960 x 1080 image, both of which are scaled to 1920 x 1080. You'll find that AVS forum folks are sticklers for details and do not typically consider a scaled image to be "full" resolution.

If you can answer a yes/no question, it would shed a lot of light on this:

Is there a model of the 3D-Bee that does full 1080p frame-sequential 3D with a single projector and no scaling?


EDIT: What I meant (I think) to ask is:

Is there a model of the 3D-Bee that does full 1080p frame packed 3D with a single projector and no scaling?

Or perhaps just:

Is there a model of the 3D-Bee that does full 1080p 3D with a single projector and no scaling?
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post #42 of 291 Old 11-03-2011, 03:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Tack View Post

As far as I can tell, "converted to 1080p" in this context means that each eye gets a 960 x 1080 image, both of which are scaled to 1920 x 1080. You'll find that AVS forum folks are sticklers for details and do not typically consider a scaled image to be "full" resolution.

If you can answer a yes/no question, it would shed a lot of light on this:

Is there a model of the 3D-Bee that does full 1080p frame-sequential 3D with a single projector and no scaling?

This would be an answer i am looking for also
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post #43 of 291 Old 11-03-2011, 04:40 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm guessing that the 3D-Bee Home and Trainer models should be able to take 1080p24 mono input, and output 1080p24 3D framepacked, to an appropriate display...

...but, this is not my configuration, so I can't test this theory.

I might well be wrong, so it would be good if 3D-Bee could chime in again and confirm whether this is the case or not..
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post #44 of 291 Old 11-04-2011, 08:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdjam View Post

I'm guessing that the 3D-Bee Home and Trainer models should be able to take 1080p24 mono input, and output 1080p24 3D framepacked, to an appropriate display...

I just realized that I used the wrong terminology in my question. According to this page that explains 3D terms:
http://www.projectorcentral.com/what...ready_mean.htm

..."frame sequential" is only supported at 720p by certain projectors anyway. What I really meant was "frame packed" (I think), the same format that Blu-ray players output for full HD and that is supported over HDMI. That's actually two 1080p images stacked vertically with a small gap between them.

I don't recall seeing on the 3D-Bee site any mention of frame packed output, which would seem to be the only realistic way to support full HD with one projector. That doesn't mean their current products *don't* support it I guess, but their forum posts and web site don't really say one way or the other.
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post #45 of 291 Old 11-04-2011, 09:31 AM
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i was interested in ordering the trainer model for my set.contacted the company and was told it wouldn't work well because my set was 60hz.if i am correct the set runs at 120hz when in 3d mode.it is disappointing when the seller doesn't know the facts about compatibility issues.i still don't know if it will work with my set.
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post #46 of 291 Old 11-04-2011, 10:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Tack View Post

Is there a model of the 3D-Bee that does full 1080p frame-sequential 3D with a single projector and no scaling?


Hi Steve, There is no model yet that supports 1080p frame sequential at 120Hz. There's not much in the way of interface chips today that support 1080p 120Hz frame-sequential. And monitors that support this don't support 120Hz 1080p on the HDMI port but instead use dual-link DVI. We would expect things to change and will support it when its available and to corresponding monitors.

We like to be sticklers about exact numbers, too, so let's clarify "converted to 1080p." The 3D-Bee doesn't have a resolution scaler built-in right now. So if you feed it 720p you'll get 720p. If you feed it 1080i then you'll get 1080i. And when we say "converted to 1080p" what we mean is "we take your 1080p image and we don't downscale it before creating the most beautiful automatic 3D conversion you've ever seen and then giving it back to you in un-scaled full-resolution 1080p." Does that help?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Tack View Post

EDIT: What I meant (I think) to ask is:

Is there a model of the 3D-Bee that does full 1080p frame packed 3D with a single projector and no scaling?

Or perhaps just:

Is there a model of the 3D-Bee that does full 1080p 3D with a single projector and no scaling?

Right now we don't have any products that support frame packing. We plan to offer it in the future, but it's not the next product out of the pipe for us yet. (We're getting ready to start shipping our Ultimate box which is for 9-view lenticular screens. www.3D-Bee.com/ultimate/ )

Quick note: Although the site you linked to says so, HDMI 1.4 certification does not actually mean that every 1.4 feature is implemented. (http://www.hdmi.org/learningcenter/faq.aspx#96) Kudos for being savvy and asking about specific features! And thanks for all the wonderful questions
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post #47 of 291 Old 11-04-2011, 12:56 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3D-Bee View Post

Hi Steve, There is no model yet that supports 1080p frame sequential at 120Hz. There's not much in the way of interface chips today that support 1080p 120Hz frame-sequential. And monitors that support this don't support 120Hz 1080p on the HDMI port but instead use dual-link DVI. We would expect things to change and will support it when its available and to corresponding monitors.

We like to be sticklers about exact numbers, too, so let's clarify "converted to 1080p." The 3D-Bee doesn't have a resolution scaler built-in right now. So if you feed it 720p you'll get 720p. If you feed it 1080i then you'll get 1080i. And when we say "converted to 1080p" what we mean is "we take your 1080p image and we don't downscale it before creating the most beautiful automatic 3D conversion you've ever seen and then giving it back to you in un-scaled full-resolution 1080p." Does that help?



Right now we don't have any products that support frame packing. We plan to offer it in the future, but it's not the next product out of the pipe for us yet. (We're getting ready to start shipping our Ultimate box which is for 9-view lenticular screens. www.3D-Bee.com/ultimate/ )

Quick note: Although the site you linked to says so, HDMI 1.4 certification does not actually mean that every 1.4 feature is implemented. (http://www.hdmi.org/learningcenter/faq.aspx#96) Kudos for being savvy and asking about specific features! And thanks for all the wonderful questions

Thanks for the info 3D-Bee

I think that there's only probably one thing left unclear by your excellent response.

If one of the other users here has an HDMI 1.4 active display, and they feed 1080p24 regular 2D Bluray content to the 3D Bee, what will they get as output to their display or projector?

It would be good for you to be specific, as this is the most asked about piece of info right now.

Is the 3D Bee in that scenario going to output a 1080p24 stream where each 1080p frame is split to show the left/right image? If so, what is the resolution of the left and right image in that instance?

Not everyone here has a dual projector setup like I do, so they would not be able to use the "Pro" version.

Most of the interest here is for the other two models, and I think they just want to know the specifics on the output format for the 3D in this case.

I don't think most users would mind sacrificing a little resolution if the unit doesn't output frame-packed - however, its best to lay out the details so folks don't worry about the confusion.

Thanks again!
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post #48 of 291 Old 11-04-2011, 02:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3D-Bee View Post

Hi Steve, There is no model yet that supports 1080p frame sequential at 120Hz. There's not much in the way of interface chips today that support 1080p 120Hz frame-sequential. And monitors that support this don't support 120Hz 1080p on the HDMI port but instead use dual-link DVI. We would expect things to change and will support it when its available and to corresponding monitors.

First, thanks for the reply! It means a lot to see you guys post on the forums. Yeah, the frame sequential thing makes sense now.


Quote:
Originally Posted by 3D-Bee View Post

We like to be sticklers about exact numbers, too, so let's clarify "converted to 1080p." The 3D-Bee doesn't have a resolution scaler built-in right now. So if you feed it 720p you'll get 720p. If you feed it 1080i then you'll get 1080i. And when we say "converted to 1080p" what we mean is "we take your 1080p image and we don't downscale it before creating the most beautiful automatic 3D conversion you've ever seen and then giving it back to you in un-scaled full-resolution 1080p." Does that help?

Right now we don't have any products that support frame packing. We plan to offer it in the future, but it's not the next product out of the pipe for us yet.

I think that helps, yes! What I'm curious about is what format comes out of the 3D-Bee box to get un-scaled full-resolution 1080p in 3D. My (limited) understanding of 3D formats leads me to think that side-by-side is typically limited to half horizontal resolution (per eye anyway), frame sequential is limited to 720p because of hardware availability, and that frame packing is the only realistic way to preserve 1080p to both eyes.

How is it possible to support full resolution without frame packing? (I'm talking with the single projector Home or Trainer models in this context) I'm sure you can see how that could be confusing to a 3D noob.
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post #49 of 291 Old 11-04-2011, 02:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3D-Bee View Post

Hi Steve, There is no model yet that supports 1080p frame sequential at 120Hz. There's not much in the way of interface chips today that support 1080p 120Hz frame-sequential. And monitors that support this don't support 120Hz 1080p on the HDMI port but instead use dual-link DVI. We would expect things to change and will support it when its available and to corresponding monitors.

We like to be sticklers about exact numbers, too, so let's clarify "converted to 1080p." The 3D-Bee doesn't have a resolution scaler built-in right now. So if you feed it 720p you'll get 720p. If you feed it 1080i then you'll get 1080i. And when we say "converted to 1080p" what we mean is "we take your 1080p image and we don't downscale it before creating the most beautiful automatic 3D conversion you've ever seen and then giving it back to you in un-scaled full-resolution 1080p." Does that help?



Right now we don't have any products that support frame packing. We plan to offer it in the future, but it's not the next product out of the pipe for us yet. (We're getting ready to start shipping our Ultimate box which is for 9-view lenticular screens. www.3D-Bee.com/ultimate/ )

Quick note: Although the site you linked to says so, HDMI 1.4 certification does not actually mean that every 1.4 feature is implemented. (http://www.hdmi.org/learningcenter/faq.aspx#96) Kudos for being savvy and asking about specific features! And thanks for all the wonderful questions

so you dont support 1080p frame packing nor frame sequential at 120Hz. I really like what you guys are doing but i will not sacrifice picture quality just to see it in 3d. Maybe in the future you'll have a full supported product. Although if there was a , lets say 14 day money back guarantee id be tempted to try one
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post #50 of 291 Old 11-04-2011, 02:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdjam View Post

I don't think most users would mind sacrificing a little resolution if the unit doesn't output frame-packed - however, its best to lay out the details so folks don't worry about the confusion.

Exactly. Personally, I like to know exactly what I'm getting into, plus I like educating myself on this stuff. You've got the "uber" setup that sounds like it produces results comparable to native 3D Blu-rays.

I sit nine feet from a 106" screen and recently got LASIK eye surgery (20/15 vision!), so resolution tends to be a big deal for me. Would I notice the difference? I suspect I would not, given that it's often difficult to distinguish between 720p and 1080p, but it's possible the single projector setup wouldn't quite be in the same detail league as a "real" 3D Blu-ray, right?
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post #51 of 291 Old 11-04-2011, 02:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dave1969 View Post

so you dont support 1080p frame packing nor frame sequential at 120Hz. I really like what you guys are doing but i will not sacrifice picture quality just to see it in 3d.

For me, i think that's more of a psychological barrier than a real one. It's sort of like using a lossless audio format versus a lossy one. A high bitrate lossy soundtrack can sound almost identical to the lossless version, but there's something about knowing that you're "losing bits."
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post #52 of 291 Old 11-06-2011, 01:10 AM
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Hmm, with that way of thinking the 3D Converter at Monoprice would be just as well, just way cheaper. BTW has anyone compared it to a 3D-Bee? It also offers support for 60Hz TVs via anaglyph red/cyan.

Does the 3D-Bee do any SD to HD upscaling or noise reduction? Or just claim to have a better 2D-3D algorithm?

If the 3D Converter is indeed trash compared to the 3D-Bee, I'll give them one thing, they have a wayyy better marketing video. Watching a video stating that you are an upstart company is a lil sketchy to me, I'm unsure if I want to drop this kind of cash with a company less than a year old. Kinda scary wondering if you'll be around to warranty it. So ditch the video.

Kudos on dual projector support, so many companies ignore them.

What about things like, Dual-DVI, Displayport, Vesa-3 port or additional formats like line interleaved, checkerboard, Sensio3D?
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post #53 of 291 Old 11-06-2011, 01:16 AM
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No offense, I'm just skeptical. If indeed your product is as good as you say, I wish you the best.

I also nominate >>>>rdjam<<<< for the Monthly Buzz Award
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post #54 of 291 Old 11-06-2011, 04:38 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3DNewb View Post

No offense, I'm just skeptical. If indeed your product is as good as you say, I wish you the best.

I also nominate >>>>rdjam<<<< for the Monthly Buzz Award

Why, err, thank you, newb.

Not sure if that was meant as a good thing or a bad thing, but I make no apologies for buying and writing about products that I think would add to my home theater experience.

So JVC projectors, Optoma 3DXL, eeColor, DarbeeVision, 3D-Bee... These are all unique or excellent products that I have started or participated in threads about, because I felt that they added something special to the mix.

So I can't apologize for owning them and writing about my experiences with them here, for others to share. After all, that's what AVSForum is all about, remember?

As far as the 3D-Bee is concerned, there is absolutely nothing like it in this price category - it's output is amazing, and I've been very happy with it so far.

I'm hoping to see the Terranex solution in the next week, which I expect to be superior, but which costs on the order of $75,000.

But for a box under $500 to be able to convert to 3D this well is something that I think a lot of people will be thankful for - even IF it is confirmed that it outputs SBS and takes a hit on resolution.

And the $950 Pro version that I have is feeding my dual pj system with two 1080p streams and is worth the uptick in price.
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post #55 of 291 Old 11-06-2011, 11:36 AM
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I apologize rdjam if you felt offended in any way, that was not my intention. I loved your review, very thorough.

I'm just curious as to what I'd get for my money? It's obviously not additional formats or connectivity. Is there any additional processing being done to the input signal other than 2D-3D conversion?

Cyberlink has a good 2D-3D converter, do you have that to compare?

I'm also curious how the Monoprice converter stacks against the Bee, after all it is 1/3 of the price of their cheapest unit.
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post #56 of 291 Old 11-06-2011, 11:40 AM
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Also, once again, I'd like to applaud 3D Bee for offering a dual projector product. That segment of the market is often overlooked.
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post #57 of 291 Old 11-07-2011, 09:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3DNewb View Post

I'm also curious how the Monoprice converter stacks against the Bee, after all it is 1/3 of the price of their cheapest unit.

My gut tells me that something that inexpensive is going to be more in the league of the converters built into many 3D sets, but you never know. But just from rdjam's enthusiasm, I get the impression that there is something truly unique about the 3D-Bee's design.
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post #58 of 291 Old 11-07-2011, 05:00 PM
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Here's a Blog reviewing the 3D Bee, check out the comments. One guy said he has the Bee and his Samsung does better, another guy states the 3D-Bee is smoother but does not have the seperation like the monoprice. These are users opinions and so be very subjective. As anyone knows results vary significantly due to source material, hardware, software, firmware, etc.. etc...

http://lvlone.com/2011/08/08/3d-bee-...verter-review/
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post #59 of 291 Old 11-07-2011, 07:17 PM
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3D - BEE sounds awesome, it is truth that it sound to be a great product but have anyone compare their product vs other competitors out there like KanexPro 2DTO3DSSW CUBEUP 4x1 4:1 HDMI SWITCHER SWITCH with 2D to 3D CONVERTER
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post #60 of 291 Old 11-08-2011, 02:48 AM
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Nice connectivity, supports more resolutions and upscales. That'd be great for early gen gaming consoles as well as OTA broadcasts.
http://www.kanexpro.com/item/?id=2DTO3DSSW

I'd love to see a comparitive shootout between them.
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