3D playback by newest streaming boxes - Realtek 1186 - Page 3 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #61 of 141 Old 02-04-2012, 05:03 PM
AVS Club Gold
 
Don Landis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Posts: 10,757
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 36 Post(s)
Liked: 106
Richard- Maybe a new version of firmware will send the TB Full or SBS Full out of the 900B but I do know that what I have does not. I get the message sent from the 900b "unsupported video" when I select a TB Full or SBS Full. Haven't had time to review your links yet but maybe the posters are using another version of the device firmware. I'm just saying that out of the box it does not support it. TB Half, SBS half, no problem.

Also, FYI- if I try to play TB Full or SBS full from my Vegas timeline and send it to my monitor, it will play but the result has the video squeezed in the resultant 3D mode so that the SBS Full is squished to a letterboxed look, for example. I have played with stereoscopic player to modify the SBS Full and TB full files so that with adjustments to the pixel aspect ratio I have been able to unsqueeze the SBS Full to display full screen and normal height. Stereoscopic player is the only player I have been able to make it work.

OK Richard- I just checked your link and see where your confusion is- You were looking at the flyer specs right? In there they state the 900B supports TB and SBS as well as frame packed with image size of 1920 x 2160. " THE LAST ONE IS PARTICULARLY IMPORTANT BECAUSE IT IS USED FOR 3D BLU RAY VIDEO." The 1920 x 2160 has nothing to to with TB or SBS. It has to do with the file image size for Blu Ray iso file CONTENT OF streaming m2ts files. And yes I have tested these and they do play fine.
Once again, my friend you are extrapolating one spec into another. The wording says the frame size is supported for frame packing, not 3D as a general spec.

Thanks for the link to the site. There may be some additional information I want to check out, like this android app feature. Not much in the manual about that.

As a general comment, the manner in which you select 3D compatible modes with the 900B is quite awkward. I'm still not comfortable I know what I'm doing. I try different stuff until I get the proper image on the screen. I recall Popcorn Hour was just as difficult.
Don Landis is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #62 of 141 Old 02-04-2012, 05:48 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
Richard Adams's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Northern California
Posts: 2,460
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Landis View Post

Richard- Maybe a new version of firmware will send the TB Full or SBS Full out of the 900B but I do know that what I have does not. I get the message sent from the 900b "unsupported video" when I select a TB Full or SBS Full. Haven't had time to review your links yet but maybe the posters are using another version of the device firmware. I'm just saying that out of the box it does not support it. TB Half, SBS half, no problem.

Also, FYI- if I try to play TB Full or SBS full from my Vegas timeline and send it to my monitor, it will play but the result has the video squeezed in the resultant 3D mode so that the SBS Full is squished to a letterboxed look, for example. I have played with stereoscopic player to modify the SBS Full and TB full files so that with adjustments to the pixel aspect ratio I have been able to unsqueeze the SBS Full to display full screen and normal height. Stereoscopic player is the only player I have been able to make it work.

OK Richard- I just checked your link and see where your confusion is- You were looking at the flyer specs right? In there they state the 900B supports TB and SBS as well as frame packed with image size of 1920 x 2160. " THE LAST ONE IS PARTICULARLY IMPORTANT BECAUSE IT IS USED FOR 3D BLU RAY VIDEO." The 1920 x 2160 has nothing to to with TB or SBS. It has to do with the file image size for Blu Ray iso file CONTENT OF streaming m2ts files. And yes I have tested these and they do play fine.
Once again, my friend you are extrapolating one spec into another. The wording says the frame size is supported for frame packing, not 3D as a general spec.

Thanks for the link to the site. There may be some additional information I want to check out, like this android app feature. Not much in the manual about that.

As a general comment, the manner in which you select 3D compatible modes with the 900B is quite awkward. I'm still not comfortable I know what I'm doing. I try different stuff until I get the proper image on the screen. I recall Popcorn Hour was just as difficult.

Does the 900 tell you which firmware rev it came loaded with? There is a list of released firmware and dates on the first page of this thread.

As per the "Don Landis flow" the intermediate Full TB / SBS can be converted to bluray iso compatible 1080p24 MVC using PD10.

I'm much more interested in knowing if the latest beta firmware added support for your TD10 files, for the original files as imported from the TD10 in 1080i60-3D, before any processing. That would provide original quality for preview and non-edited playback.

All the tests of prior versions of 900B firmware played those TD10-3D files in 2D, ignoring the 3D part of the stream. Since I sent the TD10 file samples to Realtek China firmware developers several months ago, I am hoping that they now support those for 3D playback in the beta version.

"With Liberty, HDTV and Justice for all."
Richard Adams
Richard Adams is offline  
post #63 of 141 Old 02-04-2012, 06:00 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
Richard Adams's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Northern California
Posts: 2,460
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
In another thread at the link below, the 900A with latest beta firmware 1.0.3.5 still displays the TD10 3D content in 2D.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...8#post21598018

"With Liberty, HDTV and Justice for all."
Richard Adams
Richard Adams is offline  
post #64 of 141 Old 02-04-2012, 09:32 PM
AVS Club Gold
 
Don Landis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Posts: 10,757
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 36 Post(s)
Liked: 106
Quote:


As per the "Don Landis flow" the intermediate Full TB / SBS can be converted to bluray iso compatible 1080p24 MVC using PD10.

As an intermediate step that is a true statement but the final step is to take the rendered output of PD10 for 3D BD with menus and produce a folder structure that can be burned to a 3DBD. Once that is done, you can use DVDFab and access that folder in place of the BR drive and create an iso file of same. That iso file will play in 3D with the menu structure with the 900B.

The firmware I have with the 900B is 1.0.0.26

Virgin TD10 m2ts files imported with PMB.
I'll check on that aspect for you in a little while. I'm still not sure I understand the importance of this, similar request you were making about PS3 playing raw TD 10 imported files. I guess you are just wanting to avoid playing from the camcorder and avoid using Vegas with a proper computer. I have not changed my position on this. I still use the camcorder to view the files I shot and if needed hook up the hdmi cable to the 3D monitor. Works for me and even files I have offloaded to a WD passport drive can be played, via the dongle connection to the camcorder. Anyway, I check on the m2ts raw clips in a little while.

Tested the TD10 m2ts file over the lan and loaded to the local HDD. While the 3D does appear to be output ( I can see depth in the 3D selection ), it seems there are some sync issues with this making it undesirable viewing.

Also, unlike OPPO BD-93 that will play full menu based 3D iso files locally, the Himedia will only play the full menu based 3D iso's using the direct play mode, not the BD 1.0 mode. What this means is the menu based 3D isos will skip right to the program and play in 3D. If I turn on the 1.0 mode the menus show up but the playback is 2D only.
I suspect this is due to limited firmware support. Seems we have a conundrum here. Full 3D playback works with OPPO that is now having to remove all iso support to maintain license compliance requirements ( extortion threats ) but the Chinese who don't care about licenses can't get the firmware working to accomplish the task. Maybe the Chinese will hack into OPPO's database and steal their intellectual property.

Currently my conclusion is that while the Himedia 900b will play my Vegas renders to iso in 3D, it will not work with my PD10 menu based productions using BD1.0, only direct view which skips the menu. BD 1.0 with menus works fine for 2D. Oppo plays 3D with menus fine but as soon as I permit the next upgrade to play new commercial 3D disks, I'll lose that capability.

I read the thread on AVS dedicated to the himedia 900b and was quite surprised that AVS would permit all the piracy talk in that thread. Seems strange. Maybe no one is monitoring. No matter how we view this morally, when you ( those people in that thread) rip a commercial 3DBD to an iso you are in violation of the DMCA. Your desired use and my practice use is to use an iso player to view our own productions. Yet I know I would be in a single minority in that thread surrounded by DMCA violators.

Richard- keep monitoring and let me know if Himedia gets some of these limitations corrected but the latest beta doesn't seem to address that. In the meantime I plan to keep my oppo off line and if a new disk doesn't play, I'll use the PS3 with firmware auto updates. That's about the best strategy for menu based 3D productions.
Don Landis is offline  
post #65 of 141 Old 02-05-2012, 01:51 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
Richard Adams's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Northern California
Posts: 2,460
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Landis View Post

As an intermediate step that is a true statement but the final step is to take the rendered output of PD10 for 3D BD with menus and produce a folder structure that can be burned to a 3DBD. Once that is done, you can use DVDFab and access that folder in place of the BR drive and create an iso file of same. That iso file will play in 3D with the menu structure with the 900B.

The firmware I have with the 900B is 1.0.0.26

Virgin TD10 m2ts files imported with PMB.
I'll check on that aspect for you in a little while. I'm still not sure I understand the importance of this, similar request you were making about PS3 playing raw TD 10 imported files. I guess you are just wanting to avoid playing from the camcorder and avoid using Vegas with a proper computer. I have not changed my position on this. I still use the camcorder to view the files I shot and if needed hook up the hdmi cable to the 3D monitor. Works for me and even files I have offloaded to a WD passport drive can be played, via the dongle connection to the camcorder. Anyway, I check on the m2ts raw clips in a little while.

Tested the TD10 m2ts file over the lan and loaded to the local HDD. While the 3D does appear to be output ( I can see depth in the 3D selection ), it seems there are some sync issues with this making it undesirable viewing.

Also, unlike OPPO BD-93 that will play full menu based 3D iso files locally, the Himedia will only play the full menu based 3D iso's using the direct play mode, not the BD 1.0 mode. What this means is the menu based 3D isos will skip right to the program and play in 3D. If I turn on the 1.0 mode the menus show up but the playback is 2D only.
I suspect this is due to limited firmware support. Seems we have a conundrum here. Full 3D playback works with OPPO that is now having to remove all iso support to maintain license compliance requirements ( extortion threats ) but the Chinese who don't care about licenses can't get the firmware working to accomplish the task. Maybe the Chinese will hack into OPPO's database and steal their intellectual property.

Currently my conclusion is that while the Himedia 900b will play my Vegas renders to iso in 3D, it will not work with my PD10 menu based productions using BD1.0, only direct view which skips the menu. BD 1.0 with menus works fine for 2D. Oppo plays 3D with menus fine but as soon as I permit the next upgrade to play new commercial 3D disks, I'll lose that capability.

I read the thread on AVS dedicated to the himedia 900b and was quite surprised that AVS would permit all the piracy talk in that thread. Seems strange. Maybe no one is monitoring. No matter how we view this morally, when you ( those people in that thread) rip a commercial 3DBD to an iso you are in violation of the DMCA. Your desired use and my practice use is to use an iso player to view our own productions. Yet I know I would be in a single minority in that thread surrounded by DMCA violators.

Richard- keep monitoring and let me know if Himedia gets some of these limitations corrected but the latest beta doesn't seem to address that. In the meantime I plan to keep my oppo off line and if a new disk doesn't play, I'll use the PS3 with firmware auto updates. That's about the best strategy for menu based 3D productions.

The outdated DMCA law is limited in it's scope to select countries, while many other countries permit making backups of optical media to a hard drive. It's perfectly legal for some of those in the thread, and not all that logical to police from a forum moderation standpoint, since AVSforum is a world wide resource.

1.0.0.26 firmware is relatively old.

I like the improved quality of playback from virgin TD10 PMB imported files, without having to play from the camcorder. Other users have also expressed a desire to play those directly in 3D over the LAN, or from a local hard drive, if they could. If the 900 can do that, it would be a notable advantage in player versatility.

"With Liberty, HDTV and Justice for all."
Richard Adams
Richard Adams is offline  
post #66 of 141 Old 02-05-2012, 04:00 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Wolfgang S.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Vienna/Austria
Posts: 1,131
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Liked: 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Adams View Post

The Prodigy could likely use the latest firmware flash program from the Himedia (or other 1186 variations), and get the latest compatibility to play 3D isos that Don is reporting.

The segment of the flash program memory, in these 1186 units, that is updated by a standard update is common to all the variations of the the 1186 boxes. This is because all 1186 boxes use the same "System on a Chip."

The vendor specific difference in the flash is only overwritten by the special procedure I listed earlier in this thread. It's a good idea to be sure to have the specific firmware for your box before cross flashing, just in case that needs to be restored.

Richard, I am really not sure about that. That could kill the 3D Prodigy really, if I use the firmware from another media player?

Kind regards,
Wolfgang
videotreffpunkt.com
Wolfgang S. is offline  
post #67 of 141 Old 02-05-2012, 07:34 AM
AVS Club Gold
 
Don Landis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Posts: 10,757
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 36 Post(s)
Liked: 106
Quote:


1.0.0.26 firmware is relatively old.

True, as I recall discussion of it in October 2011. However, I see it is still the current version. I don't consider newer versions still in development or testing. New builds of those are probably released weekly. I didn't buy the 900B to be a paid in beta tester.

For now, the 900B is what it is and needs to be considered with it's unpublished limitations that I continue to discover. I see a firmware that does permit full iso with menus for 3D in the near future. However, there is a real hardware limitation for MVC 1080 60i playback. As a test, I loaded a 10 minute clip from the TD10 PMB output to the local hard drive on the 900B a played it using 2D only. It plays with some stuttering at times. This could be that the 900B processor and the use of a single sata hard drive is just not fast enough to deliver and process the MVC file in real time playback. It's a similar condition we have with real time full HD playback on a computer. I needed to go to a much faster processor than the HD900B and use Raid 0 two hard drives for delivery to achieve this with the TD10 m2ts raw clip files. I'm afraid you may be waiting for your goal to be achieved in a more robust all the way around Himedia box with faster processor and Raid 0 support to do what you want. Wish list for iso 3D with menu support is probably a more realistic goal with the 900B.


Wolfgang- slang term we use today for "killing" a hardware box is "brick" the device as in turn it into a brick.
Don Landis is offline  
post #68 of 141 Old 02-05-2012, 09:36 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
Richard Adams's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Northern California
Posts: 2,460
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfgang S. View Post

Richard, I am really not sure about that. That could kill the 3D Prodigy really, if I use the firmware from another media player?

There are 2 types of flashes

1) Emergency Flash - This is started using the external button on the unit. This reloads the whole flash including the vendor specific information. To do this one, the specific file from the vendor is needed. This may have come on a CD disk with the unit when first purchased, or be a download from the specific vendor web page. Use the one that exactly matches the make and model. This is the "booting" and "branding" part of the program. This one should always work. It is also called the "safe Mode Emergency Recovery." This can "unbrick" a dead unit.

2) Non Emergency Flash - This is started from the GUI menus. This updates the flash but does not change the vendor specific "branding" information.

"Cross flash" is (2) above.

Only do type (1) with the exact file that matches the brand and model of the actual box you are flashing.

Do not use the button to flash your unit with any flash file except the one that exactly matches your unit. Use (1) only when the unit cannot be flashed starting with the GUI menu.

A company representative of one brand wrote that it was ok to "cross flash." See this link.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...5#post21434195

Compilation of how to do both types of flashes is here
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...4#post21461204

"With Liberty, HDTV and Justice for all."
Richard Adams
Richard Adams is offline  
post #69 of 141 Old 02-05-2012, 10:13 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
Richard Adams's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Northern California
Posts: 2,460
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Landis View Post

True, as I recall discussion of it in October 2011. However, I see it is still the current version.

"Current version" is correct in the sense that it was in the 900B unit they shipped you, and shown on the Himedia web page.

Released new versions are listed here:
http://www.futeko.com/navpage/support.php

The newest Beta version is here, at the moment of this writing.
http://dl.himedia-tech.cn/HD900B/HD900_1.0.3.5.tar.gz

Since the hardware provides "safe mode / emergency restore," that unbricks a dead unit, there is no harm in experimenting.

I suspect that the old firmware you are using has lots of issues, and most people aren't going to seriously consider results from testing that, when a newer firmware version is already in wide spread use.

The Oppo and PS3, cannot play AVCHD 2.0. So these are already outdated.

Newer and better than Oppo and PS3, these 1186 boxes are already playing one part of AVCHD 2.0, since they play 1080p60-2D. The vendors have said a firmware update would do the 1080i60-3D. That's what I want.

The 1186 based boxes (of which your 900B is one sample) are more like the Sony BDP-S480 bluray player, which also does AVCHD 2.0.

However, these 1186 based boxes are not limited by bluray licensing, and can play the newest 2D and 3D content from a network based source or iso, while the Sony bluray licensing limits the BDP-S480 to play 3D only from optical media, and Oppo now complied with this to keep their license.

Bluray licensing works both ways. The 1186 boxes may not work the bluray menues correctly from the iso file, but they play the content from media other than an optical disk, such as a network drive.

Perhaps you will let your Oppo update to newer more restrictive firmware if / when the 900B firmware and functionality fully replaces the Oppo for iso playback.

"With Liberty, HDTV and Justice for all."
Richard Adams
Richard Adams is offline  
post #70 of 141 Old 02-09-2012, 02:35 PM
Member
 
itou31's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 48
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Hi,

I just received the Himedia 900A, and updated to 1.0.35 beta.
Vegas iso 3D play just fine with LAN.
hope that could play TD10E raw in future, as because 50i-->24p is not very good when panning and fast motion.
I cannot find how to force to 50p, when I play a 720p50p iso 3d from vegas. It seems that everything BD3D is played at 24p !!! so a little bit disappointed.
not noticed yet the 24p issues (every 40s micro lag).
itou31 is offline  
post #71 of 141 Old 02-09-2012, 03:19 PM
AVS Club Gold
 
Don Landis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Posts: 10,757
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 36 Post(s)
Liked: 106
itou31-

Couple questions-

Why did they send you the older model 900A? Did you order from a dealer who was unloading old inventory? I ordered direct from Himedia.

Can you see if your new firmware on your 900A will allow you to use all functions in the You Tube XL app? It doesn't seem to work as I can't get a keypad screen to enter and the directional arrows navigation doesn't work. Web browser I can type in a search and go and get a list of Google results but haven't figured out how to select and go to any of the links.

Richard- I don't recognize a 3rd party's firmware as official. This company is in UK It doesn't appear to have authorization by HiMedia.
As I read the safe mode, that only works if the download is the same file size as the original. If larger then you have no revert to original as the download corrupts the original. Did I read that right?
Don Landis is offline  
post #72 of 141 Old 02-09-2012, 04:22 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
Richard Adams's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Northern California
Posts: 2,460
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Landis View Post

itou31-

Couple questions-

Why did they send you the older model 900A? Did you order from a dealer who was unloading old inventory? I ordered direct from Himedia.

Can you see if your new firmware on your 900A will allow you to use all functions in the You Tube XL app? It doesn't seem to work as I can't get a keypad screen to enter and the directional arrows navigation doesn't work. Web browser I can type in a search and go and get a list of Google results but haven't figured out how to select and go to any of the links.

Richard- I don't recognize a 3rd party's firmware as official. This company is in UK It doesn't appear to have authorization by HiMedia.
As I read the safe mode, that only works if the download is the same file size as the original. If larger then you have no revert to original as the download corrupts the original. Did I read that right?

The 900A is not old. It is the model without the hard drive bay inside.

About Futeko - that seems to be one of the best support forums and companies for the 900 that speak English.

About safe mode using button restore - that would only be done with firmware for HiMedia. This means you should not use firmware for the MICA 950 in safe mode.

Did your 900B come with a firmware disk? I suspect that any of the firmware for the 900 from futeko or himedia will correctly install in either GUI or safe mode since they are all for the himedia units. I do not know from my own experience since I haven't bought one of these yet!!!

"With Liberty, HDTV and Justice for all."
Richard Adams
Richard Adams is offline  
post #73 of 141 Old 02-09-2012, 09:26 PM
AVS Club Gold
 
Don Landis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Posts: 10,757
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 36 Post(s)
Liked: 106
Quote:


Did your 900B come with a firmware disk? I suspect that any of the firmware for the 900 from futeko or himedia will correctly install in either GUI or safe mode since they are all for the himedia units. I do not know from my own experience since I haven't bought one of these yet!!!

No disk!
"I suspect that any of the firmware..." That bothers me. You seem so sure yet many who have tried ended up bricking their 900B with no recovery. I've read some of the comments on a Google search for the 900B. It could be they didn't do it correctly but one thing is certain in my opinion and that the evidence by owners, is that this firmware is a hack by unauthorized 3rd party and the process is not vetted by anyone I know or approved by the manufacturer. If you took the risk and actually bought one and then vetted it, I'd trust your word but you haven't and therefore, I'm not interested in experimenting. Reminds me of hack-ware for rooting a smart phone. It gives you one new feature but breaks 7 others that worked before with authorized updates. I believe this Olly firmware has been successfully installed by not using the GUI method for installing.
Anyway, the bottom line is the 900B works perfectly with stock firmware for what I wanted and that is to play my Vegas Pro iso renders from a local hard drive and I can send those files from my computer over the lan to that 900B hard drive. My next move with it will be to replace the surplus 500Gb drive I now have installed with a new 3Tb drive when the prices roll back a bit. I don't mind the lack of a GUI page for those files. The Explorer style listing is good enough. When the Gui authorized by Himedia gets released I'll do the upgrade per their instructions.
Don Landis is offline  
post #74 of 141 Old 02-10-2012, 09:30 AM
Member
 
xiaNaix's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 139
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Adams View Post

I do not know from my own experience since I haven't bought one of these yet!!!

Seriously? You shouldn't be giving people advice about these units, especially about firmware flashes, when you don't even own one. That is not only ridiculous but totally irresponsible.

For people interested in FACTS on the HiMedia units, there is a dedicated thread here...

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1367468
xiaNaix is offline  
post #75 of 141 Old 02-10-2012, 09:40 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Wolfgang S.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Vienna/Austria
Posts: 1,131
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Liked: 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Adams View Post

There are 2 types of flashes

1) Emergency Flash - This is started using the external button on the unit. This reloads the whole flash including the vendor specific information. To do this one, the specific file from the vendor is needed. This may have come on a CD disk with the unit when first purchased, or be a download from the specific vendor web page. Use the one that exactly matches the make and model. This is the "booting" and "branding" part of the program. This one should always work. It is also called the "safe Mode Emergency Recovery." This can "unbrick" a dead unit.

2) Non Emergency Flash - This is started from the GUI menus. This updates the flash but does not change the vendor specific "branding" information.

"Cross flash" is (2) above.

Only do type (1) with the exact file that matches the brand and model of the actual box you are flashing.

Do not use the button to flash your unit with any flash file except the one that exactly matches your unit. Use (1) only when the unit cannot be flashed starting with the GUI menu.

A company representative of one brand wrote that it was ok to "cross flash." See this link.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...5#post21434195

Compilation of how to do both types of flashes is here
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...4#post21461204

Richard,

thank you for the interesting comment - will think about that if I am back from skiing in the alps...

Kind regards,
Wolfgang
videotreffpunkt.com
Wolfgang S. is offline  
post #76 of 141 Old 02-10-2012, 12:21 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
Richard Adams's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Northern California
Posts: 2,460
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by xiaNaix View Post

Seriously? You shouldn't be giving people advice about these units, especially about firmware flashes, when you don't even own one. That is not only ridiculous but totally irresponsible.

For people interested in FACTS on the HiMedia units, there is a dedicated thread here...

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1367468

I collect information, evaluate it diligently, report the information in a logical and helpful format, including the source for the information, include cautions, and do not exceed the bounds of what others have reported or what I know from my own experience. Where I am speculating, that is stated as such.

I have considerable experience inventing and designing products, and in customer support. Much greater experience than the average person that reads forums. A reasonable person that reads my posts would detect that there is always a high level of accuracy in them.

The manufacturer has included the safe mode restore button to allowing reloading factory firmware. This uses a low level bootstrap that cannot be damaged unless the unit has become defective. The vendors themselves have stated that cross flashing is okay.

I still haven't bought one since they are not yet offering capability I want most. In particular, I would like to have full AVCHD 2.0 capability to playback the 1080i60-3D from my TD10 camcorder. If the box can do this, great, and I'd buy one right away. Maybe I'll buy one anyway, but not yet. For many people, the ability to stream 1080p24-3D over the lan is enough to make someone want to buy one. I use a HTPC and PS3 for 3D playback right now, but already need more players, and many people ask me what;s the best to use.

These Realtec 1186 boxes are already doing more than any other streaming box for 3D playback, i.e. this thread belongs here in this forum for source components. The thread you mentioned is good too, and has been mentioned already here. There are other examples of cross threads in AVS. This one here is more about 3D.

The HiMedia uses the same internal board as other brands, since this is a reference board design supplied by Realtek. For the most part, the firmware is the same among the 1186 boxes, and reported to be interchangable by vendors and users.

There are other threads about the other particular brands of 1186 boxes in the media streamer forum over here at this link.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?f=39

This thread is intended as a place to converge the various brands according to their common abilities. By sharing high quality information that is diligently sourced and evaluated, and by commenting on the products rather than attacking the people writing about them, we all stand to gain from the experiences of others.

"With Liberty, HDTV and Justice for all."
Richard Adams
Richard Adams is offline  
post #77 of 141 Old 02-10-2012, 02:26 PM
Member
 
xiaNaix's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 139
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
You obviously like to pontificate but, as Don Landis pointed out above, you seem to ignore the fact that several users ended up bricking their 900B with no recovery. I too have "much greater experience than the average person that reads forums" when it comes to hardware firmware flashing, having been involved in the hacking of gaming consoles and other electronics for 20+ years. Since you have "considerable experience inventing and designing products, and in customer support" you should know better than to recommend people flash unofficial firmware based on your own untested theories for a product you admittedly don't even own. That is precisely the type of "information that is diligently sourced and evaluated" people don't need.
xiaNaix is offline  
post #78 of 141 Old 02-10-2012, 06:43 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
Richard Adams's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Northern California
Posts: 2,460
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by xiaNaix View Post

You obviously like to pontificate but, as Don Landis pointed out above, you seem to ignore the fact that several users ended up bricking their 900B with no recovery. I too have "much greater experience than the average person that reads forums" when it comes to hardware firmware flashing, having been involved in the hacking of gaming consoles and other electronics for 20+ years. Since you have "considerable experience inventing and designing products, and in customer support" you should know better than to recommend people flash unofficial firmware based on your own untested theories for a product you admittedly don't even own. That is precisely the type of "information that is diligently sourced and evaluated" people don't need.

Glad to have you contribute to this discussion. If at any time you're upset with me, please send me a PM.

As the low level restore is a designed in feature of these units, advertised by the manufacturer, a bricked unit that will not do the low level restore, provided by the special button, is simply a defective unit.

If / when I do buy one of these boxes, I would verify that it does do firmware updates correctly, so I could return it if it was defective during the warranty. Many purchases in the USA of these boxes is through Amazon. Amazon is very good with warranty during the 1st 30 days, and not so good after 30 days.

Some boxes break, and firmware is not at fault. Another user described concerns about inadequate cooling design on the 900B when a drive is installed inside the internal drive bay. He went on to redesign the enclosure.

I understand and agree with the point that firmware updates require caution before proceeding. If something isn't broken, it doesn't need fixing.

"With Liberty, HDTV and Justice for all."
Richard Adams
Richard Adams is offline  
post #79 of 141 Old 02-11-2012, 03:11 AM
AVS Club Gold
 
Don Landis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Posts: 10,757
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 36 Post(s)
Liked: 106
Richard- I agree with xiaNaix in this case. You and I have a long history and xiaNaix should understand that and that I have purchased several of your products years ago. BUT, in this case he is right, Your observations and suggestions are based on obvious limited reading and seemed to gloss over evidence of the trouble people have had. I also don't agree that when a owner experiments with a new product and breaks it, they have a moral right to get a reseller to pay for their mistakes with a return policy the reseller has. In this area we as friends, strongly disagree.

More specifically and technically, the firmware upgrade reversibility is possible only when the upgrade goes wrong with the HiMedia firmware as it has the match file size making the reversing process possible. the 3rd party does not. As I understand the trouble, XiaNaix correct me if I am wrong, the hack firmware destroys the original factory backup in the process while the authorized upgrade does not. Now, if it takes, if you did things right, the new 3rd party firmware falls into the category I referenced earlier of adding one thing and breaking others.

The development of these hacks is most often based on the genius of one talented individual and there is no beta testing to qualify the code as trouble free. A company authorized upgrade is developed by a team effort and not dependent on one individual. Then it is tested to clear that the firmware functions as claimed.
Don Landis is offline  
post #80 of 141 Old 02-11-2012, 03:24 AM
Member
 
chang69's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 59
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Adams View Post

. I do not know from my own experience since I haven't bought one of these yet!!!

Well this is the biggest joke of the month.

Now you said earlier that you where in contact with Realtek firmware developers. Hoe does this work?
Richard: "Eh hello this is Richard here, I would like to ask for changes to the firmware"
Realtek: "Sir which issue are you experiencing and what model do you own?"
Richard: "I have issue x with your devices, please resolve this for me as I am a very important customer!"
Realtek: "Which firmware version and which brand do you have?"
Richard:"I don't have one".
Realtek:"How do you know you have an issue?"
Richard:"Because I browse forums a lot and look at all the manufacturers FLYERS specs!"
Realtek:"How do you know that what you read is true?"
Richard:"Because everything I read on the internet is true. I have no way of validating this because I have no such device! But I just blindy copy and paste what others say and pretend they are the truth. "
Realtek:"Good day sir! Please come back when you actually have real life experience with our devices!"
Richard > AVS forum "Eh yes I am in contact with Realtek firmware developers ahum."
chang69 is offline  
post #81 of 141 Old 02-11-2012, 10:21 AM
AVS Club Gold
 
Don Landis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Posts: 10,757
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 36 Post(s)
Liked: 106
Quote:


Another user described concerns about inadequate cooling design on the 900B when a drive is installed inside the internal drive bay. He went on to redesign the enclosure.

Me too and so I decided to take some measurements. During playback or transfer of files to the internal hard drive, the temperature rises to 98*°F. That was with the 7200RPM 500Gb drive. When I get the 2Tb drive in there I will check again.
Don Landis is offline  
post #82 of 141 Old 02-11-2012, 01:55 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
Richard Adams's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Northern California
Posts: 2,460
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by chang69 View Post

Well this is the biggest joke of the month.

Now you said earlier that you where in contact with Realtek firmware developers. Hoe does this work?
Richard: "Eh hello this is Richard here, I would like to ask for changes to the firmware"
Realtek: "Sir which issue are you experiencing and what model do you own?"
Richard: "I have issue x with your devices, please resolve this for me as I am a very important customer!"
Realtek: "Which firmware version and which brand do you have?"
Richard:"I don't have one".
Realtek:"How do you know you have an issue?"
Richard:"Because I browse forums a lot and look at all the manufacturers FLYERS specs!"
Realtek:"How do you know that what you read is true?"
Richard:"Because everything I read on the internet is true. I have no way of validating this because I have no such device! But I just blindy copy and paste what others say and pretend they are the truth. "
Realtek:"Good day sir! Please come back when you actually have real life experience with our devices!"
Richard > AVS forum "Eh yes I am in contact with Realtek firmware developers ahum."

I got a grin out of the above fiction. Thanks

Actually, I emailed vendors of these boxes, and gave them samples of files from the Sony TD10 that their boxes wouldn't play. I noted that I would buy some of these boxes if they updated the firmware to properly play the files.

Four vendors replied with a confirmation that the files did not play in 3D, and that the improvements would have to come via an improvement in the SDK.

It wasn't a requirement to buy it to figure out it wasn't doing what I wanted. Simply smart shopping.

While waiting for an improved version, if there ever is one, something better might come along that I want more.

Perhaps these boxes will never be able to play 1080i60-3D. I already have a bunch of PS3 boxes with that problem.

"With Liberty, HDTV and Justice for all."
Richard Adams
Richard Adams is offline  
post #83 of 141 Old 02-11-2012, 02:13 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
Richard Adams's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Northern California
Posts: 2,460
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Landis View Post

Richard- I agree with xiaNaix in this case. You and I have a long history and xiaNaix should understand that and that I have purchased several of your products years ago. BUT, in this case he is right, Your observations and suggestions are based on obvious limited reading and seemed to gloss over evidence of the trouble people have had. I also don't agree that when a owner experiments with a new product and breaks it, they have a moral right to get a reseller to pay for their mistakes with a return policy the reseller has. In this area we as friends, strongly disagree.

More specifically and technically, the firmware upgrade reversibility is possible only when the upgrade goes wrong with the HiMedia firmware as it has the match file size making the reversing process possible. the 3rd party does not. As I understand the trouble, XiaNaix correct me if I am wrong, the hack firmware destroys the original factory backup in the process while the authorized upgrade does not. Now, if it takes, if you did things right, the new 3rd party firmware falls into the category I referenced earlier of adding one thing and breaking others.

The development of these hacks is most often based on the genius of one talented individual and there is no beta testing to qualify the code as trouble free. A company authorized upgrade is developed by a team effort and not dependent on one individual. Then it is tested to clear that the firmware functions as claimed.

Actually we are all in agreement about most of this.

Please note that I didn't recommend any firmware update. I reported what was available and asked if you and others tried it.

The question was not a recommendation. If you want a recommendation, ask the vendor.

If I bought one of these today, since it doesn't do everything I want it to, I would certainly test the ability of my unit to update firmware within the first 30 days (or whatever the warranty period is), to make sure that it could do updates. That way, if the update I wanted ever became available, there is a good chance my unit would be able to take that future update too.

I would not want to get stuck with a box that broke later when it's out of warranty, when I could have tried to update it as an initial test of my own incoming inspection. That's what works for me. This is not a perfect test. It might break later anyway.

"With Liberty, HDTV and Justice for all."
Richard Adams
Richard Adams is offline  
post #84 of 141 Old 02-12-2012, 03:59 AM
Member
 
itou31's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 48
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Hi everyone,

Asus O!Play TV Pro with RTD1186 also. Could we hope that asus will have more team power on the firmware ? I would like also the direct play raw TD10 as converting 50i to 24p is to laggy on fast panning.
I've read and confirm that all video 3D BD (frame packing) is played at 24p even when vegas iso is 720p50p or 720p60p --> stuttering alot.
itou31 is offline  
post #85 of 141 Old 02-12-2012, 12:20 PM
Member
 
xiaNaix's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 139
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Also keep in mind that, even if you are successful in cross flashing one of these units with unofficial firmware, it will immediately void your warranty. I have already confirmed that but if you have any doubts, don't take my word for it, go ahead and contact HiMedia or Xtreamer like I did.
xiaNaix is offline  
post #86 of 141 Old 02-12-2012, 12:40 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
Richard Adams's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Northern California
Posts: 2,460
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by xiaNaix View Post

Also keep in mind that, even if you are successful in cross flashing one of these units with unofficial firmware, it will immediately void your warranty. I have already confirmed that but if you have any doubts, don't take my word for it, go ahead and contact HiMedia or Xtreamer like I did.

Good point. This might may vary with different vendors. Is Micca the only vendor for 1186 boxes with an actual USA location?

The company representative for Micca that has a presence on the forums wrote,

"Originally Posted by Jack@Micca

Hi,

Feel free to experiment with HiMedia firmware, or other custom firmware. Just be careful not to do anything that would change the original boot code. The boot code is what displays the initial white "Micca" logo on the screen when you first turn the player on. While this is not officially supported, we recognize that there is a significant community interest in cross flashing firmware. As long as the original boot code is intact, you will always be able to restore the firmware back to the ones we supply.

We will be posting the EP950 firmware on our website soon.


He didn't say anything about voiding the warranty, so I posed the question in the Micca thread today. How do you interpret, "feel free" when the vendor doesn't mention the warranty status?

Here are links to the posts:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...5#post21434195

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...1#post21635031

"With Liberty, HDTV and Justice for all."
Richard Adams
Richard Adams is offline  
post #87 of 141 Old 02-12-2012, 02:07 PM
Member
 
emporer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 81
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by itou31 View Post

Hi everyone,

Asus O!Play TV Pro with RTD1186 also. Could we hope that asus will have more team power on the firmware ? I would like also the direct play raw TD10 as converting 50i to 24p is to laggy on fast panning.
I've read and confirm that all video 3D BD (frame packing) is played at 24p even when vegas iso is 720p50p or 720p60p --> stuttering alot.

I have the Himedia 900b, I also convert all my TD10 footage using Vegas 11 to 720p50, this plays perfectly on the 900b in it's native resolution, I really can't see how people are not managing this and complaining that it always plays them at 1080p24.

All my TD10 vegas discs play just fine natively at 720p50 and are silky smooth.
emporer is offline  
post #88 of 141 Old 02-12-2012, 02:17 PM
AVS Club Gold
 
Don Landis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Posts: 10,757
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 36 Post(s)
Liked: 106
Richard- what he mentions is the same issues that are causing the HiMedia hackers to brick their 900's with unauthorized firmware. When those hacker offered firmwares get installed they destroy the backup, therefore, if the hacker firmware is flawed, you can't go back with the reset procedure. the backup no longer exists. This has been my primary complaint in trying this stuff. On the legal ( warranty) side of this, I think Jack is setting himself up for putting his foot in his mouth. The words "feel free" implies he is granting permission. As a maker of products ( you too) those words seem very naive. I would never suggest that.
Don Landis is offline  
post #89 of 141 Old 02-12-2012, 02:24 PM
AVS Club Gold
 
Don Landis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Posts: 10,757
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 36 Post(s)
Liked: 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by emporer View Post

I have the Himedia 900b, I also convert all my TD10 footage using Vegas 11 to 720p50, this plays perfectly on the 900b in it's native resolution, I really can't see how people are not managing this and complaining that it always plays them at 1080p24.

All my TD10 vegas discs play just fine natively at 720p50 and are silky smooth.

I could be way wrong on this but maybe these people have their TV's set to convert everything to 1080 24p for display. My Sony Projector is set to pass through inbound resolution. I have yet to move my 900B out of the edit suite where I am testing it and into the HT, where it will be used but when I do, I will review that. I now have a number of 3D productions on my 900B hard drive. 720 60P 108024P and SBS wmv files in 1080 30p
Don Landis is offline  
post #90 of 141 Old 02-12-2012, 02:58 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
Richard Adams's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Northern California
Posts: 2,460
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Landis View Post

Richard- what he mentions is the same issues that are causing the HiMedia hackers to brick their 900's with unauthorized firmware. When those hacker offered firmwares get installed they destroy the backup, therefore, if the hacker firmware is flawed, you can't go back with the reset procedure. the backup no longer exists. This has been my primary complaint in trying this stuff. On the legal ( warranty) side of this, I think Jack is setting himself up for putting his foot in his mouth. The words "feel free" implies he is granting permission. As a maker of products ( you too) those words seem very naive. I would never suggest that.

Not sure I understand this contention. Here is my understanding.

The "backup" should be the original firmware that came from the vendor, and is saved on another device, such as the PC hard drive, or it can be downloaded from the vendor's web page. There shouldn't be a way to destroy this with flawed firmware.

The ability to do an "emergency (safe mode)" firmware restore uses a low level boot activated by the button on the player. This low level boot code is in a "write locked" section of the player's programming, and should always be accessible, unless the unit has become defective.

The "write locked" feature of chips is relatively new.

Those with experience with old mother board firmware upgrades that used to be able to damage the flash are now supposed to be a thing of the past. Of course it can still become defective, or products can have faulty design which doesn't work. I believe that these "system on a chip 1186" have an optimum near perfect design to protect the ability to do an emergency restore.

That's why I mentioned the potential heat problem. If the ventilation is not adequate in the 900B with a hard drive installed inside, the chips could overheat and become damaged, which a firmware restore will not fix.

"With Liberty, HDTV and Justice for all."
Richard Adams
Richard Adams is offline  
Reply 3D Source Components

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off