Upgrade from the 3D Bloggie: the Panasonic 3D1 - Page 2 - AVS Forum
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post #31 of 285 Old 04-25-2012, 07:51 AM
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Videoguy,
The 3D1 saves a 2D jpg as well as a 3D mpo file. You'd have to click on the mpo file to view the 3D photo. I have a LG 3D monitor and it came with Tridef software that can view the mpo files.
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post #32 of 285 Old 04-25-2012, 07:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Videoguy68 View Post


Mark:

Thanks for the advice. The camera arrived yesterday and I took a number of photos all of which showed as 3D on my Panny 3D set. Great quality.

However, no matter what I do, those same 3D photos are displayed as 2D JPEGs on my computer. I imported the pictures from the camera using the Panasonic software twice with the same result. I looked for instructions on the PDF manual that came with the camera and don't believe I am doing anything wrong.

I wonder if you could please tell me how you import your 3D photos so they are 3D on the screen.

Many thanks,

Marty



I use Vegas Pro for all editing, including stills.


You claim you are trying to view the 3D on your "computer". You will need a 3D monitor connected to your computer and you will need a graphics card that supports 3D to that monitor. If you don't have 3D equipment, you can still see your 3D images but you will need to render them to anaglyph or red cyan colored glasses for viewing. They files from the camera are not anaglyph ready. Vegas Pro can do this as well as a number of other 3D editing programs.
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post #33 of 285 Old 04-25-2012, 02:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Landis View Post

I use Vegas Pro for all editing, including stills.

The files from the camera are not anaglyph ready. .

Don / Mark/ Darkside:

That little comment is the key. I assumed (Note to self: Never assume) that the pictures right off the camera were anaglyph ready.

With the helpful suggestions from you three, I was able to import the MPO files into Vegas Pro 11 and then export them as anaglyph 3D JPEG files which I can view using anaglyph glasses. That is a much more economical way than purchasing a 3D monitor.

I take lots of family pictures, especially of my granddaughters. It will be nice being able to send them 3D pictures of themselves.

I also use the TD10 for 3d video. It is a great camera.

Incidentally, I tried to install StereoPhotoMaker but it does not work with Windows 7.

Thanks again for the help.

Marty
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post #34 of 285 Old 04-25-2012, 07:40 PM - Thread Starter
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I am glad our responses are helpful.

But StereoPhotomaker does work in Windows 7. I used it to convert the .mpo files from the 3D1 to anaglyph, as posted in this thread. I have used it on at least three Windows 7 machines with no problem.
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post #35 of 285 Old 04-26-2012, 03:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markr041 View Post

I am glad our responses are helpful.

But StereoPhotomaker does work in Windows 7.

Mark:

The home page says that the program is compatible with Windows up to Vista. I downloaded the newest version 3.26 and it works with Windows 7, as you said. Thanks for the tip.

Marty
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post #36 of 285 Old 04-27-2012, 05:47 PM - Thread Starter
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Locks, falls, ducks, ducklings, fisherman, joggers, bridges, a photo shoot, all at the Chesapeake & Ohio Canal in Washington, DC.



Go to Youtube site for 3D choices and 1080p.
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post #37 of 285 Old 04-28-2012, 11:08 PM
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Nighttime photo from my backyard with flash taken with the 3D1. The flowers in the back is about 10 ft away and the 3D1's flash is strong enough to light it up to add the 3D effect.
LL
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post #38 of 285 Old 04-29-2012, 08:19 AM - Thread Starter
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Neat! Is the Jeep really lavender, or is this the worst white balance ever?
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post #39 of 285 Old 04-29-2012, 10:41 AM
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The left photo is the original jpeg. I took another photo this morning with sunlight so you can see the white balance of the 3D1 for comparison. The daylight photo is pretty darn close to the true colors of the jeep with my naked eyes.

I don't know how to attach mpo photos for you to see them

I used Stereophotomaker to convert the mpo photo to anaglyph. During the conversion, it changed pink to lavender.
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post #40 of 285 Old 04-29-2012, 11:27 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks. The camera seems to have gotten the colors accurately. It is another example of why I hate anaglyph
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post #41 of 285 Old 04-29-2012, 12:17 PM - Thread Starter
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Piano playing outdoors in Washington Square Park, NYC. First, the piano is tuned. Ends with balloons and Tai Chi - an active park.

Check out the sound; not a great piano, but the sound is well captured despite there being no room or acoustic shell. Panasonic 3D1.

Video is really 5D, adding time and sound.




Here is a link to 3D stills (sbs and anaglyph versions) from this event: http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/re...ssage=41363425
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post #42 of 285 Old 04-29-2012, 01:36 PM
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Just some odd observations on the 3D1:

Mark- Have you noticed your 3D video with the 3D1 tends to pump around a setting? Mine does the same thing. When I first noticed it on my clips, I thought either my camera was defective or I was doing something wrong. When I saw it on your video, I knew this must be a design flaw. What do you think?

Also, from my last trip I had two occasions where the camera banged off quite a few shots on its own with what looks like a blur. Almost like the flash went off with the front door closed. When it happened, the camera took a picture every 15-18 seconds for several minutes while in my pocket.
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post #43 of 285 Old 04-29-2012, 02:12 PM - Thread Starter
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If by pumping, you mean going in and out in what seems to be focal length (not focus), I have noticed it in a few shots. Do you see it in all shots?

I have not had any other incident so far.
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post #44 of 285 Old 04-29-2012, 03:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Landis View Post

When it happened, the camera took a picture every 15-18 seconds for several minutes while in my pocket.

Did this only happened once? I've only had the 3D1 for a week, but haven't noticed it behaving this way before.

Mark,
Thanks for sharing the piano video. I enjoyed it. That guy is good.

I actually recorded my daughter playing the digital piano indoors with the TD20 and the 3D1 for comparison. I'll post the links when they finish uploading.
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post #45 of 285 Old 04-29-2012, 03:26 PM
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My 12 yo daughter, Crystal, playing the digital keyboard using the Sony TD20

I think Youtube only takes SBS half videos, so I rendered the Sony's MVC streams to SBS half. I think it's a better comparison, since the 3D1 records in SBS half format

Crystal playing the same song on a different day using the Panasonic 3D1
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post #46 of 285 Old 04-29-2012, 03:34 PM - Thread Starter
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Good comparison - the sound in the Sony seems to include background TV sound, which ruins the effect. The 3D1 sound is good, as is the 3D. I actually like the 3D1 video and sound better (sound is dull on the Sony one).

Uh oh - the Sony video has interlacing artifacts - you did something wrong in Sony Vegas in converting. Maybe that is why the 3D1 one looks better, though it does not explain the sound difference.
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post #47 of 285 Old 04-29-2012, 03:46 PM
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Darkside, can you film a simple standard EIA 1956 test pattern (even 4:3 is good enough since it is only for reliative comparison) using TD20 and the 3D1 for comparison.
The video on youtube is affected by further processing, difficult to understand the real differences.

I seen on the web posted TD20 vertical and horizontal resolutions results, but do not know how it compares to 3D1, since it is looks like no info available.
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post #48 of 285 Old 04-29-2012, 03:53 PM - Thread Starter
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Could you be clear on this: you want a 3D video of a flat board? how will you view the 3D video? where is he supposed to post it?

If you are obsessed by resolution, how about just getting the raw clips from the cameras and viewing them on whatever you plan on viewing 3D and see if you can tell the difference - in 3D?

Meanwhile, look at Darkside's 3D1 video in 3D at 1080p. Do you have anything to complain about? The Sony clip was mucked up in post, so it looks much worse and is not useful (yet).
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post #49 of 285 Old 04-29-2012, 04:08 PM
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Oops. Thanks Mark. I forgot about making it sbs. They should work now. I did not edit the 3D1. The sound on the Sony is actually 5.1 dolby, whereas the 3D1 is stereo. Sorry about the background noise from my other daughter.

bordo,
I don't have such pattern to test. I was not trying to compare subtle differences in resolution, but rather indoor and outdoor lighting of the two camcorders.
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post #50 of 285 Old 04-29-2012, 04:15 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks, I have changed my original post (but there are still issues).

I recommend setting the Sony to stereo when recording music, as the bitrate per channel is higher. The 3D1 also uses Dolby compression, same as the Sony in stereo. The 3D1 sure sounds better to me, even taking into account the background.
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post #51 of 285 Old 04-29-2012, 08:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markr041 View Post

If by pumping, you mean going in and out in what seems to be focal length (not focus), I have noticed it in a few shots. Do you see it in all shots?

I have not had any other incident so far.

Yes. Not every shot but a few. Doesn't seem to be related to shaking the camera, it just happens. I recently shot four clips about 15 seconds long and one of the 4 was pumping while the other three were fine. The focal length just a little bit of inout in out. The conditions for each of the 4 shots were the same.
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post #52 of 285 Old 04-29-2012, 09:04 PM
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Darkside- I enjoyed the performance and your comparison.

But, I see the Sony as having the sharper picture on my Vizio 32". Mark is correct on the sound on the Sony which is probably hearing rear channel direction that the 3D1 is not.

To date I have not had the chance to do any 3D1 rendering of its SBS format but I will be soon. As far as your rendering of both, I could not see anything wrong with how you did the technicals on the video for the Sony. On the Sony, I could see fine strands of Crystal's hair on top of her head while on the 3D1, it seemed too fuzzy to make out that sort of resolution detail anywhere in the shot, including the edge of the piano keys looked rather poorly defined. I grabbed my 3D1 here and took a look at a couple of the videos I shot recently and I saw much better detail in the 3D clips so maybe you did something not quite right in handling the conversion.

YouTube is a strange animal and the upload requirements seem to change often. I've been using wmv files in SBS at 8M but I may need to refigure this as I see they now stste YT recognizes frame packed data for upload. The one constant with YT is I'm constantly having to learn new ways to upload.
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post #53 of 285 Old 04-30-2012, 12:42 AM
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Mark,
I actually used PD10 to render the Sony video with default values. The only thing I had to change was the bit rate. PD10 forced me to select 24mbps because it was the max rate. I couldn't keep the original 28mbps that the Sony recorded as.

By the way, I'm not sure what you mean by interlacing artifacts. Does this appear throughout the clip or just at certain time frames? Maybe I should try to use Vegas.

Don,
I only rendered the Sony clip. The 3D1 clip was uploaded as is. The 3D1 clip seems to be overexposed by the bright fluorescent light above the keyboard. Crystal's skin tone seems to be natural in the Sony clip, whereas in the 3D1 clip, her skin tone appears a bit pale.

I just checked my 3D1's exposure setting and I had it on -2/3 instead of 0. Perhaps I should have lowered it even more. The Sony clip was on full auto with no manual adjustments.
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post #54 of 285 Old 04-30-2012, 07:00 AM
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Quote:
The 3D1 clip seems to be overexposed by the bright fluorescent light above the keyboard

I agree with that as well.

Listening to the sound difference, I would also say after several listens that the 3D1 appears to have a higher frequency response but it is not smooth and the appearance of the higher frequencies than the Sony is more that the 3D1 captures a peak response in the 1200-2Khz range giving it a more tinny quality. The Sony appears to be smoother and has smooth sound extending into the higher harmonics. I would liken it to comparing a cheap Radio Shack Microphone to a Sennheiser(Sony).

The bit rate difference doesn't seem to be as important than what appears to be the basic lens distortion in the 3D1. I'm sure if we had a third camcorder, the Panasonic Z10k in the mix with it's 3 chip design, it would shine equally as well over the Sony, but that is as higher level of product as the Sony is above the 3D1. We're really comparing Apples to Oranges here.

The bottom line in these comparisons, is whether the 3D1 meets your minimum standards for quick documentation of an event. Or, do you just get rid of it and keep the Sony always handy. This is the decision I made and so far, I find the 3D1 adequate to satisfy my quality standards. If I need serious planned production, the Sony TD10 I have will be used. My Bloggie 3D never quite met my needs and am happy to retire it, replacing with the 3D1.
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post #55 of 285 Old 04-30-2012, 09:23 AM - Thread Starter
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"Listening to the sound difference, I would also say after several listens that the 3D1 appears to have a higher frequency response but it is not smooth and the appearance of the higher frequencies than the Sony is more that the 3D1 captures a peak response in the 1200-2Khz range giving it a more tinny quality. The Sony appears to be smoother and has smooth sound extending into the higher harmonics. I would liken it to comparing a cheap Radio Shack Microphone to a Sennheiser(Sony)."

Don, I m afraid I have to disagree with you on this. I record sound semi-professionally. I think there is something wrong with the Sony sound in the *particular video*; it is completely dull and also sounds processed. My experience with the Sony in use is the sound is normally ok. I am happy with the sound of the TD10 (leaving aside the inability to turn off AGC).

I also think the 3D1 sound is fine, and not peaked. I just recorded extensively (not semi-professionally!) piano playing (see my posted video, which has excerpts). Thus I know what the actual, live sound was, and what the recording contains. That is the only test (without frequency sweeps) - live vs. recorded. The 3D1 recording captured the sound perfectly fine, with no obvious peaks. I listen using Sennheiser HD650 headphones, one of the finest headphones ever made. I also listen using B&W 801 speakers.
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post #56 of 285 Old 04-30-2012, 05:38 PM
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Thanks for your opinions guys. I was more concern about the video quality, especially 3D effect since I'm an amateur to the 3D world.

For more serious recordings like my wife's singing professionally at local concerts and weddings, I find Sony's onboard mic inadequate. . I usually use an H1 to record uncompressed audio streams plugged into the mixer and toss the Sony's onboard audio during post edits. Anyway, the point is that I'm usually pretty picky with sound also.

For casual recordings, I'm pretty satisfied with either the Sony's or 3D1's onboard mic.
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post #57 of 285 Old 04-30-2012, 10:31 PM
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On my last shooting expedition, I only recorded program sound on one project which is now edited and uploaded to my YT channel, Bellagio Fountain Performance in 3D. This project was shot in six locations to experiment with issues with back lighting from the setting sun. The Bellagio has a speaker placed about every 15 ft or so around the fountain lake and I discovered they all had a different sound quality. But with all the street ambiance I decided to just capture what I could which is mostly what I do as an amateur. I've recorded these fountain displays over many years from the days of DVCAM, to HDV to HDCAM and now, with the TD10, in MVC 1080 60i. There is always room for improvement. In video this type of recording would be better shot with the Panasonic Z10k using the three chip system but for a real top of the line shoot, I may some day obtain a second NEX5n and shoot it in 1080 60p with the 180° fisheye lenses using about a 12 inch IA. Capture the sound with twin Sennheiser shotgun K66 with blimps and wind furs, then mix in the music in post. Add both my TD10's on left and right side of the lake for a three cam 3D shoot. OK, so I do have all the equipment except the second NEX5n but is the project worth it? Maybe, if I could get the Bellagio to pay me. For now I'm quite happy with what I am getting. I did ask my wife if she would run the second TD10 for a two cam shoot the next time we go. She just gave me that look. Guess that assignment is going to cost me dinner at a fancy restaurant.
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post #58 of 285 Old 05-01-2012, 09:39 AM
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That's some serious stuff Don. You definitely should get paid for that kind of work. Thanks for sharing the Bellagio Fountatin 3D video.

"She just gave me that look." lol

Since I couldn't make it to my wife's singing event last weekend, I told my wife to take the 3D1 to take 3D photos record some footage in 3D, and I think I got the same look. She ended up taking an old 2D Sony camera and took about 10 photos.
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post #59 of 285 Old 05-02-2012, 12:22 PM
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I got some questions:
1) Where can you get 3d pics printed up?
2) Can I take the 3d footage and simply burn it onto blurays for playback in my system? I have a sony vaio laptop with a bluray burner but didn't spring for the 3d screen.
3) At max pq quality setting, how many gigs of memory does it need per hour?
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post #60 of 285 Old 05-02-2012, 01:48 PM - Thread Starter
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"I got some questions:
1) Where can you get 3d pics printed up?
2) Can I take the 3d footage and simply burn it onto blurays for playback in my system? I have a sony vaio laptop with a bluray burner but didn't spring for the 3d screen.
3) At max pq quality setting, how many gigs of memory does it need per hour?"

1. You can print your own: you can use free StereoPhotoMaker to convert the 3D1 3D mpo files to anaglyph jpegs. Then just print them like any other picture. Or convert them to sbs jpegs and print them that way just like any picture. Or do you mean lenticular, autostereoscopic prints?

2. There is a simpler way, depending on what 3D equipment you do have. If you have a Panasonic 3D bluray player or a Panasonic 3D TV, you can take the sd card right from the camera, put it into the sd card slot in the player or TV and you can watch the 3D videos instantly - no conversion, no burning.

3. 17Mbps (the maximum bitrate for 3D) in the 3D1 yields 7.5 GB per hour. So a $19 16GB SD card gives you two hours of video (enough to bore any family member).
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