Upgrade from the 3D Bloggie: the Panasonic 3D1 - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 285 Old 05-07-2012, 03:52 PM - Thread Starter
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Back to the 3D1...

3D photo shoot at the NYC Fire Museum, in which there are 19th and 20th century fire trucks and fire-fighting equipment in a dimly-lit space. Here are two examples of the 3D1 in use - the first is a longer-view outdoors shot and the second was taken from the dimmest part of the museum up close - at ISO640, 1/8th shutter, handheld. Does a good job in very low light.The 2D and 3D anaglyph versions:









34 3D photos are included in this slide-show video on Youtube. The video was created using Vegas Pro, which nicely uses still .MPO's from all 3D cameras. You can if you double-click on the link select your favorite 3D viewing method, and choose 1080p:

http://youtu.be/OuGjsjUVd-s?hd=1
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post #92 of 285 Old 05-07-2012, 07:40 PM
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Don,
When do we get to see Valley of Fire and Bryce Canyon on 3D video for sale? I'd like to purchase it. I enjoyed the Bellagio fountain video.

Mark,
Great 3D slide show of the museum.

Thanks you 2. I enjoyed the Bellagio fountain video and museum slide show.

BTW,
Does anyone know if there's a 1400mAH battery for the 3D1? I ordered one on Amazon (it was advertised as 1400mAH), but when I received it, it was 895mAH, same as the stock 3D1. If there's none, then I'd keep this battery. Otherwise, I will return it.
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post #93 of 285 Old 05-07-2012, 08:13 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks.

I have not found one that provides more energy than the stock battery. Hard to believe anyone could increase the capacity by over 50% and still make it the same size - there is little leeway in the battery slot. For camcorders, when the battery capacity is higher the battery size increases almost proportionally
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post #94 of 285 Old 05-08-2012, 02:02 AM
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Quote:


Don,
When do we get to see Valley of Fire and Bryce Canyon on 3D video for sale? I'd like to purchase it. I enjoyed the Bellagio fountain video.

I have no plans to commercialize the video but thanks for the compliment. I will be putting up a YT clip as usual if I can work things out. Even for YT the rights and permissions can get expensive. I'm currently in negotiation with some artists now for background music and its not going well. I may be compromising my goals here and resort to buyout royalty free music.

Timing- Valley of Fire is in edit right now and I hope to finish in a couple weeks.
Meanwhile, look for Bellagio Spring Gardens being uploaded soon. If you like popout, this is the one for you.

Mark- So far, I am not pleased with the differences in picture quality between the TD10 ( 3D mode) and the 3D1 ( 3D mode) The color looks quite dirty compared to the TD10. I will be reviewing your clips later today to see how you are doing with the mix.
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post #95 of 285 Old 05-08-2012, 06:37 PM
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I just bought the 3D1.I really love it, to be able to take 3D stills is great. I love the combination with my TD10.
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post #96 of 285 Old 05-09-2012, 02:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Landis View Post

Mark- So far, I am not pleased with the differences in picture quality between the TD10 ( 3D mode) and the 3D1 ( 3D mode) The color looks quite dirty compared to the TD10. I will be reviewing your clips later today to see how you are doing with the mix.

Unfortunately, I'd have to agree with you Don. The Sony's color range is much higher than the 3D1, but we're comparing a p&s to a dedicated camcorder.
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post #97 of 285 Old 05-09-2012, 04:34 PM - Thread Starter
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If we are going to compare, let's have a comparison.

As it says, all three, in title order, in low light.

Workflow: TD10 and Z1000 original clips merged and converted to 1/2-frame sbs 108060i in Vegas, 20 Mbps. Then the original 1/2-frame 108060i 3D1 clip is combined, with no further compression (lossless merge), with the other two, using Aunsoft Final Mate. Then the 108060i mts file is uploaded to Youtube.

http://youtu.be/pjbnBlLmt2k?hd=1

We are looking for differences in resolution, noise and color accuracy. The (last) Z10000 clip is there to show what the scene really looks like in terms of colors, as a benchmark against which the other two should be judged. I know the Z10000 is (the most) accurate, because I can compare it to the scene I shot. For example: on the vase, there are two greens - an avocado green and a dark green, clearly seen from the Z1000 clip. How ell are they differentiated by the other two?

Comments?
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post #98 of 285 Old 05-09-2012, 05:59 PM
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Just got my 3d1 a couple of hours ago.My impressions:
The 3d is good! I was afraid it would lack depth but the best word to describe it is "natural".
Color- can't speak as I have had limited time. To me, it looks a bit off, but I kind of feel that way about 3d in general as I use active glasses with my Samsung DLP. The color is there, just doesn't look as good as regular 2d high def.
I was outside taping my two Bichons on the lawn. Perhaps this is a torture test for contrast, detail was blown out a bit. WHere I can see clear fur, the camera picked it up as just white.
I am pretty excited with this thing. While it may not be as good as a HD20, I love the size, it can help get more "natural shots" of people. The handiness of it can't be ignored.
I took out the chip, inserted into my panny 220 dvd player, set my mitsu 3d box to sbs mode and watched my junk practice clips- can't be any easier.
The 3d too close warning light seems more like a nanny feature as the literature says it is there to prevent taping that might cause queesiness. My daughter and I watched footage where I was in violation and it looked fine, even got a bit of a popout effect when one of my dogs charged at me as I taped!
This camera is more fun that a puppy with peanut butter on its nose!
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post #99 of 285 Old 05-09-2012, 06:58 PM
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Thanks for posting the comparison Mark. The sound gain is way up on the 3D1. It's really pumping compared to the TD10 and Z10K. Resolution seems best with the TD10 and Z10K- letters are more easily recognized on the greeting cards.

If the true color accuracy is best shown by the Z10K, I think the 3D1 is second in color accuracy. To me, the Sony has the least noise in low-light. We know Sony's track record with low-light noise so this makes sense to me.

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post #100 of 285 Old 05-09-2012, 07:55 PM
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Mark- I think I have no issues with the 3D1 in color balance. It matches the TD10 with a slight tweak in the white color temp from a warm 5300K (3D1) to about 6500K on the TD10. It's closer to the JVC in this respect. My main problem is the amount of chroma noise in the saturated colors which is something I don't know how to correct in post. ( Open to suggestions) The exposure and gamma are perfect, IMO so no complaints in that department.
In addition to the chroma noise level, I can also see edge sloppiness at color boundaries that is not present in the TD10. This I would blame on the quality of the lenses. The 3D1 just does not have the same quality of glass that my other cameras have including the 3D Bloggie! But all in all, the 3D1 is a great camera that I have no problem carrying with me everywhere. The balance of the features and near great quality is making me a very happy 3D shooter on the fly. I think for You Tube output, the 3D1 could match the TD10 in every respect except for that darn chroma noise.
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post #101 of 285 Old 05-09-2012, 08:18 PM
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Mark, great test you did of the 3 cameras.

My observation is correct the 3D1 and Z10k are warmer in color temperature. The TD10 is less saturated than the other two. The edge sharpness of the TD10 was superior to either of the Panasonic's. * And the edge sharpness of the 3D1 was the worst with an obvious ragged borders which is the same I see on mine. Chroma noise was less obvious on your 3D1 than I get with mine. ( I wonder why)

* I was using the word Season on the second card from the right to evaluate as the chroma was at minimum in this area. The TD10 was quite sharp, while the 3D1 I couldn't even read the word. I could read the word SEASON on the Z10k but it was surprisingly fuzzy. I have to ask, are you sure the Z10k was in focus? I viewed the 2D and my observation remains the same. I'm really bothered by the Z10K sharpness in your demonstration.
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post #102 of 285 Old 05-10-2012, 05:16 PM - Thread Starter
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"I could read the word SEASON on the Z10k but it was surprisingly fuzzy. I have to ask, are you sure the Z10k was in focus? I viewed the 2D and my observation remains the same. I'm really bothered by the Z10K sharpness in your demonstration."

1. I made a mistake and had left the shutter at 1/120th, from my last outdoor shoot. This means the Z10000 sensor was getting half the light the other cameras were. I decided to add the Z10000 to the demonstration at the last minute as a benchmark.

2. What you are seeing is the effect of shallow dof - the print words become oof when the camara moves away from the card with print (Season) and the center of the image is further away. When the camera comes back to the card, you see the words come back in focus. The wide open lens plus the short distance makes for shallow dof. The whole clip is much fuzzier than the original anyway, though.

3. I have replaced the part with the Z10000, now shot at the correct (and comparable) 1/60th, and lingered on the last part, where you see the words come into focus as the camera stays on the card. The link is now updated to reference the replacement video.
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post #103 of 285 Old 05-11-2012, 12:44 AM
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That's better! The Z10k now looks as sharp as the TD10. I'm sure with full brightness, f16, the Z10k will be considerably sharper. But your TD10 lacks the same saturation as mine do. FYI- when I load my TD10 clips into Vegas Pro timeline, I apply a color correction matrix to the entire timeline to fix that. I do not warm the color temperature, just fix the levels of the color curves. I started doing that last month for most projects.

Someday you should repeat the test but at full brightness in good sunlight with optimum exposure.
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post #104 of 285 Old 05-11-2012, 02:09 AM
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Once again I am completely frustrated as when I have bought the TD10. I cannot simply display the 3d mpo files on my 3D TV. AAaaarrrgh!!!!
Have anyone confirmed that the mpo files play in 3D via Playmemories on a playstation?

Does any 3D Bluray player play 3DO MPO files from network?
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post #105 of 285 Old 05-11-2012, 05:01 AM - Thread Starter
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"Once again I am completely frustrated as when I have bought the TD10. I cannot simply display the 3d mpo files on my 3D TV."

First of all, this thread is about the Panasonic 3D1 (with some useful detours).

Second, the TD10 does not take 3D stills, in MPO or any other format.

If you want 3D MPO stills that I guarantee will play in 3D on any current 3D TV that claims it will play MPO files, get the Panasonic 3D1.
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post #106 of 285 Old 05-11-2012, 06:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markr041 View Post

"Once again I am completely frustrated as when I have bought the TD10. I cannot simply display the 3d mpo files on my 3D TV."

First of all, this thread is about the Panasonic 3D1 (with some useful detours).

Second, the TD10 does not take 3D stills, in MPO or any other format.

If you want 3D MPO stills that I guarantee will play in 3D on any current 3D TV that claims it will play MPO files, get the Panasonic 3D1.

First of all, let me add some words to the my sentence: "Once again I am completely frustrated AFTER BUYING THE 3D1 as when I have bought the TD10 SEVERAL MONTHS AGO". Does this clarify? ;-)

Second, I have a TD10 and know it doesn't take 3D stills.

Third, I asked very direct questions if it plays from Playmemories on a playstation and or from a Blu Ray player. I am not asking for educated guesses.
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post #107 of 285 Old 05-11-2012, 06:19 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the clarification. The latest model Panasonic bluray players (eg. BDT220) officially claim to play mpo files; you can just put the sd card from the 3D1 into the sd card slot, select photo from the menu. This is assuming you have a 3D TV connected by 1.4 HDMI cable.
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post #108 of 285 Old 05-12-2012, 08:59 AM
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Does anyone make accessories for the 3d1? I see that you can get stereo base extenders and polarizers for the Fuji :http://www.cyclopital3d.com/FUJI-W3-3D-CAMERA.html
Would love to have a polarizer or a stereo base extender for the 3d1.
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post #109 of 285 Old 05-12-2012, 02:33 PM - Thread Starter
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The 3D1 performing indoors in mediocre light.

Here is the 3D video slide show, with the 3D stills:

http://youtu.be/llQhBAbs7oQ?hd=1

And some samples:

sbs:

















Anaglyphs:















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post #110 of 285 Old 05-13-2012, 08:09 AM
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When I use the flash I notice that it shows 'circles' in the picture. :-( Usually only in one of the two images.
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post #111 of 285 Old 05-14-2012, 07:36 PM
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Nice looking stills Mark. I saved the sbs jpg's as mpo's and they look very good on my monitor.

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post #112 of 285 Old 05-15-2012, 01:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chang69 View Post

When I use the flash I notice that it shows 'circles' in the picture. :-( Usually only in one of the two images.

This is a major downside to flash photography especially in a point-and-shoot like the 3D1, where the flash is so close to the lens. I had an old Sony 2D p&s that did the same thing. The distance from the lens to the flash is about equal to the 3D1's flash to lenses. It was explained to me that the cause for circular artifacts is due to the light from the flash reflecting off dust particles in the air. These artifacts are not as noticeable if an external flash is used, but it's impossible for the 3D1. This is when I wish I had a diffuser like an umbrella flash.

Flash photography is even more of a challenge in 3D, where two lens are involved. I can sympathize with your frustration, but my work-around for a p&s is to take a few photos and pray for a good one. I hope someone else has a better solution.
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post #113 of 285 Old 05-15-2012, 05:31 AM - Thread Starter
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Unless your subject is moving fast, there is little (not no) reason to ever use flash with modern cameras. The 3D1 has an excellent OIS, and you can take pictures handheld at very slow shutter speeds and high iso in dim light and get excellent color and little noise. All of the indoors pictures I posted above were taken handheld without flash, most with shutter speeds ranging from 1/8-1/15th of a second, at ISO's of 400-640. Take a look.

This is in addition to the point that, to me, most flash pictures (2D or 3D) look very unnatural anyway - bad.
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post #114 of 285 Old 05-15-2012, 05:45 AM - Thread Starter
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Flora and fauna:





Flowers, fountains, butterflies, birds, humans, dogs.

Street Fair:



Balloons, food (kebabs, chocolate, fruit, fries) and drink (lemonade) preparation and purchase, dog pair, beads and scarfs and shawls.
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post #115 of 285 Old 05-15-2012, 07:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markr041 View Post

Unless your subject is moving fast, there is little (not no) reason to ever use flash with modern cameras. The 3D1 has an excellent OIS, and you can take pictures handheld at very slow shutter speeds and high iso in dim light and get excellent color and little noise.

What about when the sun is behind the subject in the picture? Without flash, their face is dark.
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post #116 of 285 Old 05-15-2012, 09:28 AM - Thread Starter
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Sun behind subject: you can push up ev compensation and expose subject correctly. The difference is this may blow out some back highlights. On the other hand you will not have red-eye or harsh shadows in the face that front flash gives.
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post #117 of 285 Old 05-15-2012, 09:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkside View Post


This is a major downside to flash photography especially in a point-and-shoot like the 3D1, where the flash is so close to the lens. I had an old Sony 2D p&s that did the same thing. The distance from the lens to the flash is about equal to the 3D1's flash to lenses. It was explained to me that the cause for circular artifacts is due to the light from the flash reflecting off dust particles in the air. These artifacts are not as noticeable if an external flash is used, but it's impossible for the 3D1. This is when I wish I had a diffuser like an umbrella flash.

Flash photography is even more of a challenge in 3D, where two lens are involved. I can sympathize with your frustration, but my work-around for a p&s is to take a few photos and pray for a good one. I hope someone else has a better solution.

Thanks for clarifying. I am actually quite good with flash, have 50d with 580ex flash and photo flash setup at home. My PS prior to 3D1 is the Canon S95 where I have not seen this issue. Your particles explaination makes very much sense, now I know why it's random. I will take a portable vacuum cleaner with me next time and first dust out the air. ;-) And yes I need flash because the subject is moving, children.
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post #118 of 285 Old 05-15-2012, 09:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markr041 View Post

Unless your subject is moving fast, there is little (not no) reason to ever use flash with modern cameras. The 3D1 has an excellent OIS, and you can take pictures handheld at very slow shutter speeds and high iso in dim light and get excellent color and little noise. All of the indoors pictures I posted above were taken handheld without flash, most with shutter speeds ranging from 1/8-1/15th of a second, at ISO's of 400-640. Take a look.

This is in addition to the point that, to me, most flash pictures (2D or 3D) look very unnatural anyway - bad.

Yes the subjects are moving really fast, child + baby. Actually using flash photography you almost get perfect colors using grey card and RAW. Not so practicle for PS and outdoor quick photography.
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post #119 of 285 Old 05-20-2012, 02:14 PM - Thread Starter
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The Panasonic 3D1 at work.

Something always going on in NYC parks. This time - installation of new stone sculptures. For one sculpture, there was trouble getting a slab to fit - many tries, much trimming, and then success. Also, balloons, kite flying, and of course a fountain with gas lights. In 3D.

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post #120 of 285 Old 05-28-2012, 03:08 PM - Thread Starter
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NYC's only park with a waterfall. Ducks, geese, goslings, feeding, bathing, flowers, kite flying, balloons. In 3D.



Fourth in a series on Manhattan Parks in 3D.
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