Upgrade from the 3D Bloggie: the Panasonic 3D1 - Page 7 - AVS Forum
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post #181 of 285 Old 07-15-2012, 02:57 AM
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Does anybody else have the same problem?
Just been looking at my failed photos from yesterday and noticed (not for the first time) that it seems very easy to get lens flare with the Panasonic.
Is this due to the angle of the twin lens exaggerating any light bleed and if so if I were to take a pic in 2D mode just using the left lens would the problem be less prevalent?
Also... I've noticed that the battery indicator will take an 'age' to lose its first bar but then the next two will disappear in half the time?

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post #182 of 285 Old 07-16-2012, 05:48 AM
 
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OutFoxed: Yup, I get the lens flare too, and it's very annoying as I thought I had a smudge on one of the lens, but no. It can destroy contrast in otherwise great pics. I have tried to hold one hand over the top of the camera to shield the lens, with thumb under camera and four fingers over camera--shift your hand left with 3 fingers over the lens and your forefinger and thumb holding the camera. This will cover the mic, though, so works better for pics than video.

Since your pics are all green, they should show up ok as anaglyphs--lets' see some...Scratch...scratch...;o).
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post #183 of 285 Old 07-16-2012, 08:38 AM
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When it comes to lens flares, you have to go back to basic photography rules. Put the sun behind you! The wider your lens shoots the more critical this rule becomes. Finally you can do like the pros and use flags and lens shades to cut down on side light glare. Of course, it seems strange to use a large matte box hood on a 3D1 but using a buddy holding a flag or a large black piece of foam card will aid in the elimination of side light glare.
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post #184 of 285 Old 07-16-2012, 11:26 AM - Thread Starter
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Don is right, as usual. Notice that pro's with big expensive cameras add shades? The 3D1 leaves those lenses exposed, out in the open. Do something to protect the lens, or turn around.


A few years ago there was a Sony Camcorder that took excellent videos, but then many people discovered that some shots had an intense tiny purple dot. Some attributed this to a dead pixel, others to cracked lens elements, one to a ufo. A defect they all cried. Recall, firmware fix, they whined.

Then someone posted a video showing the purple dot, then screwing on a lens shade, and the dot disappeared. Flare.
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post #185 of 285 Old 07-16-2012, 12:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Don Landis View Post

When it comes to lens flares, you have to go back to basic photography rules. Put the sun behind you! The wider your lens shoots the more critical this rule becomes. Finally you can do like the pros and use flags and lens shades to cut down on side light glare. Of course, it seems strange to use a large matte box hood on a 3D1 but using a buddy holding a flag or a large black piece of foam card will aid in the elimination of side light glare.

Thanks Don...
Having used DSLR's for the past few years I always used lens hoods and so flare coming in from the top or sides were a non issue.
For obvious reasons there's no lens hood on the 3D1 and I take your point that the wider the lens the higher the chance of flare so presuming that the twin lens on the 3D1 gives you an extra wide angle
I must try and shake the 'Auto point and shoot' mode I now find my brain locked into after all these years of relatively hassle free SLR use.
As I've said before I'm loving the learning curve of taking 3D pics but you don't always notice this flare till later.
The other day I took some great 3D photo's of one of my cats playing in the garden under a big bush but later when I was putting them onto my PC I noticed this shard of light streaking down from the top of the images
caused by the sun which was high above and to the side well out of the image area. Totally ruined the shots and I deleted them straight away.
Don't know about the buddy holding a flag or large piece of black foam though as I'd have to have a pretty dedicated friend with the amount of photo's I take lol
Threeds finger solution sounds a little more practical although I'm all confused wether it's supposed to be 3 fingers and 2 thumbs or four fingers and 1 thumb or just all fingers and thumbs? I think I need to ask him for a diagram lol

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OutFoxed: Yup, I get the lens flare too, and it's very annoying as I thought I had a smudge on one of the lens, but no. It can destroy contrast in otherwise great pics. I have tried to hold one hand over the top of the camera to shield the lens, with thumb under camera and four fingers over camera--shift your hand left with 3 fingers over the lens and your forefinger and thumb holding the camera. This will cover the mic, though, so works better for pics than video.
Since your pics are all green, they should show up ok as anaglyphs--lets' see some...Scratch...scratch...;o).

You don't have time to look at anaglyphs my friend as you should be tooooooooo busy trying out Sony Vegas Pro 11 so that we can all see you're photo's in glorious 'non anaglyph' HD side by side mode!
Also keen to see your museum video as no doubt that'll be the nearest I'll ever get to being there living all these miles away.
Besides when I arrived at that place and saw it's state of decline it kinda made me lose my enthusiasm for taking 3D photo's and so just took a few random shots which really aren't up to anything.
I'll just post these few though as they seem to have some good depth in anaglyph for a change? Oh and I haven't auto aligned these either as per your suggestion (or at least I don't think I did?lol)

343

347

347

346

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post #186 of 285 Old 07-16-2012, 12:27 PM
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Originally Posted by markr041 View Post

Don is right, as usual. Notice that pro's with big expensive cameras add shades? The 3D1 leaves those lenses exposed, out in the open. Do something to protect the lens, or turn around.
A few years ago there was a Sony Camcorder that took excellent videos, but then many people discovered that some shots had an intense tiny purple dot. Some attributed this to a dead pixel, others to cracked lens elements, one to a ufo. A defect they all cried. Recall, firmware fix, they whined.
Then someone posted a video showing the purple dot, then screwing on a lens shade, and the dot disappeared. Flare.

One to a UFO? eek.gif Hope they broke the news to him easy? lol

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post #187 of 285 Old 07-16-2012, 01:18 PM
 
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Curious, were those pics taken at -2?
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post #188 of 285 Old 07-16-2012, 01:37 PM
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Curious, were those pics taken at -2?

Caught me out there, no the camera was set to 0, my bad lol

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post #189 of 285 Old 07-16-2012, 01:44 PM
 
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thought so. you can increase the depth in Stereomaker. I find that real handy.
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post #190 of 285 Old 07-16-2012, 02:33 PM
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thought so. you can increase the depth in Stereomaker. I find that real handy.
There you go I have now adjusted the pics above but find if you separate them too much they start to 'ghost' so have increased the separation by about 80?

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post #191 of 285 Old 07-16-2012, 03:07 PM
 
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yup, look lots better. They will ghost, but I think the added depth is worth it.
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post #192 of 285 Old 07-16-2012, 03:57 PM
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Lens Flares and 3D-

In most cases we need to shoot into the sun because of time constraints and budget and environment. The fix is not called a shade but rather a flag. There are different types. pointing into the sun overhead is most often fixed with a "French Flag" The other tool used is the barndoor and these are on the sides of the lens. A lens hood is also handy but with 3D these are usually impractical, so the barndoor on a large wide angle mattebox is generally used.

The look of a lens flare is often selected for its artistic addition to the shot, especially if the shooter gave options to the editor in the reel. BUT, there is a huge problem with lens flares when it comes to 3D and that is the angle that creates the flare is different for each camera as it is in a slightly different location with respect to the angle of the light causing the flare. This becomes a problem of an image in the shot that can not be converged to 3D and by chance, may or may not work to the art form of the shot. This really depends on the main depth range. What can't be allowed is for the lens flare to poke holes in the image due to a depth conflict. If the flare is out in front you may get away with the look, if it is conflicting with an object in the shot's space in z depth then the shot can't be used except for a special trick I have up my sleeve.
The trick requires some skill with mattes in Vegas or any other tool such as Photoshop. With the images separated into left and right eye files, create a matte of transparency ( a hole ) in the image where the flare object is located. Next find that same location in the other eye view and copy paste it to the image with the hole. Flatten the images to one layer. Now pair the images in Vegas and auto correct. The flare has been removed from one image allowing it to appear as a 2D image with 3D depth shift. Adjust the Horizontal disparity manually for the best overall look. What you have done here is permit the flare to be only on one of the images so it will not exhibit depth but the image around the flare will have its 3D look. Remember this is just a fix and in video if you keep your fixed in posts short and used sparingly, you will salvage a shot that you need for the story and can't reshoot. As the editor, your goal is to come up with something and not to be perfect. Strive for perfection and hope to achieve excellence.
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post #193 of 285 Old 07-17-2012, 02:12 PM
 
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Worked all day on my too-dark stills from this past week. Had the camera set at -1 1/3 instead of -2/3.

1. Opened a MPO file in Stereomaker.
2. Saved the L/R image into separate jpeg files (use a "_l" and "_r" designator).
3. Opened GIMP (free editing program--search for it).
4. Opened L (left) image.
5. Selected Levels under Colors.
5. Adjusted the right (white) marker to the left to match up with the right end of the histogram (or sometimes a little more to the right to decrease contrast).
6. Adjusted the left (black) marker to the right to match up with the left end fo the histogram
7. Adjusted the middle (grey) marker left until I could see good detail and brightness and maintain contrast.
8. Added settings to favorites (click "+", and window will pop up and give it a name. If you do this again and give it the same name it will start numbering them).
9. Exported (saved) file back to it's original--this will save it as a jpeg.
10. Close the left image.
11. Opened the R (right) image.
12. Select Levels again.
13. Select the favorite you saved to the right image to get the same level fix as the left.
14. Export (save) the file and close it.
15.Go back to Stereomaker and open left and right adjusted image files.
16. Do any alignment adjustments--especially horizontal for the horizon on water and landscape shots in the Easy Adjustment screen.
17. Save the left/right images back to an MPO file and your done.

Sounds like a long involved processed, but once I got it down, it took about a minute per image since they all took the same level fix. You can also add other effects to the images, but make sure you use the same parameters for each image--e.g. unsharp mask, etc.
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post #194 of 285 Old 07-18-2012, 11:02 AM
 
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Well, I've tried to make a video in Vegas of videos and stills, but when uploaded to Youtube, the video is in 3D, but the stills are not. In 3D Analglyph mode it used two still for one pic. I'm using MPO files in Vegas and as some of you have said, 3D needs to be off. Any suggestions? When I look at the properities of the stills in Vegas it has Pair with next stream selected. In the main properties, I have 3D off. Should it be showing two side-by-side pics in Vegas for each still as it does for video--it doesn't show two for me. When I select view Analglyph in Vegas the still show as they should with left and right red/blue images.
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post #195 of 285 Old 07-18-2012, 12:02 PM
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Well, I've tried to make a video in Vegas of videos and stills, but when uploaded to Youtube, the video is in 3D, but the stills are not. In 3D Analglyph mode it used two still for one pic. I'm using MPO files in Vegas and as some of you have said, 3D needs to be off. Any suggestions? When I look at the properities of the stills in Vegas it has Pair with next stream selected. In the main properties, I have 3D off. Should it be showing two side-by-side pics in Vegas for each still as it does for video--it doesn't show two for me. When I select view Analglyph in Vegas the still show as they should with left and right red/blue images.

Hmmm is there a particular reason why you want to output in anaglyph? Side by side give such a better 3D result.
When I create my video and still slideshows for YouTube I go to properties and make sure the 3D mode is on and set to side by side half. Remember though that when you drop 3D video files onto the timeline that you need to right click on that file and select the same side by side half mode else it won't render correctly.

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post #196 of 285 Old 07-18-2012, 12:26 PM
 
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I want to be able to have videos show on Youtube in both Analglyph and side-by-side as others (e.g. markr041) have done. His early on post stated to not select 3D for the videos or stills as they are already in 3D, so I'm confused. I will follow your example and see what happens...the adventure continues...%0).
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post #197 of 285 Old 07-18-2012, 12:39 PM
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I want to be able to have videos show on Youtube in both Analglyph and side-by-side as others (e.g. markr041) have done. His early on post stated to not select 3D for the videos or stills as they are already in 3D, so I'm confused. I will follow your example and see what happens...the adventure continues...%0).

Yep the adventure continues lol. Sorry I can't advise on anaglyph as you know I'm more a side by side man myself lol
Can't wait to see your results though so hopefully Mark/Don will get back to you ASAP with your answers?

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post #198 of 285 Old 07-18-2012, 02:24 PM
 
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I finally figured it out. To get both sbs and Anaglyph to work, you have to select 1/2 sbs in main properties, then make sure the clip properties are set to Pair with next stream. This appears to be done automatically when dragging mpo files to the timeline. I was turning 3D off at the clip level and this would render an SBS image, but youtube couldn't render an anaglyph image when selected. All is good now and I can get back to creating...finally after two days of this...argh:mad.gifcool.gif
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post #199 of 285 Old 07-19-2012, 05:22 AM
 
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Ok, now I'm getting more and more frustrated. I signed on to youtube to test out my video from yesterday and now it's coming up as having 4 images both in video and the stills. Yet yesterday it was working fine. I'm thinking it got double processed by Youtube--is that possible?
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post #200 of 285 Old 07-19-2012, 07:10 AM
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Ok, now I'm getting more and more frustrated. I signed on to youtube to test out my video from yesterday and now it's coming up as having 4 images both in video and the stills. Yet yesterday it was working fine. I'm thinking it got double processed by Youtube--is that possible?

Hope this comment will help-

If you upload a SBS Half to YT, you have to select "already a 3D file"
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post #201 of 285 Old 07-19-2012, 08:54 AM
 
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Hope this comment will help-
If you upload a SBS Half to YT, you have to select "already a 3D file"

That's what I've been doing, but it refuses to add the 3D option when I do that. I upload the videos and select Already a 3D file and save it. After the video is uploaded and processed I look at it and the 3D option is not available. I then look at the Advanced Settings and 3D shows as no preference. I then select Already a 3D file and save it again. I then refresh the page, and wait for a while, then view the video again, but no 3D option shows up. I then set the option again. Yesterday it took me 5 tries, and if finally showed up and worked fine. However, when I viewed the same video this morning, the 3D was set, but the frames were doubled in Anaglyph and quad in no 3D. I basically looks like it processed the 3D option twice. I tried to remove it, but it would not respond. This is weird at best since others don't seem to be having this problem. Maybe it's my browser. I'm using Internet Explorer 9. I will try Firefox and see if that reacts differently....more to come...
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post #202 of 285 Old 07-19-2012, 10:10 AM
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I am using Firefox and it doesn't work for me (randomly) either. I still didn't figure out the pattern. Today I tried with completely virgin tag field, and it still didn't work. I go back to the old and tried "yt3d:enable=true, yt3d:swap=true". That always works for me.
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ComPH3D: How do you add that tag you described to changed the mode. I reset the 3D option about 5 times and refreshed the screen and finally got it to work. Here's my first venture into 3D space with the 3D1:



This contains both videos and stills. I'm having a problem keeping my video level as you can see--need to work on that. The stills had to be corrected as they were too dark, but look good now. Let me know what you all think. Oufoxed, you can turn 3D anaglyph off and watch sbs on you TV
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post #204 of 285 Old 07-19-2012, 10:40 AM
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That's what I've been doing, but it refuses to add the 3D option when I do that. I upload the videos and select Already a 3D file and save it. After the video is uploaded and processed I look at it and the 3D option is not available. I then look at the Advanced Settings and 3D shows as no preference. I then select Already a 3D file and save it again. I then refresh the page, and wait for a while, then view the video again, but no 3D option shows up. I then set the option again. Yesterday it took me 5 tries, and if finally showed up and worked fine. However, when I viewed the same video this morning, the 3D was set, but the frames were doubled in Anaglyph and quad in no 3D. I basically looks like it processed the 3D option twice. I tried to remove it, but it would not respond. This is weird at best since others don't seem to be having this problem. Maybe it's my browser. I'm using Internet Explorer 9. I will try Firefox and see if that reacts differently....more to come...

Without actually being there to see what its doing (or more precisely NOT doing) I can only post my settings when creating a project and uploading it to YouTube which work fine for me but remember I don't use anaglyph.

In project properties my settings are...

Template: Custom (1920x1080, 23.976 fps)
Width: 1,920
Height: 1,080
Field Order: None (progressive scan)
Pixel aspect ratio: 1,0000 (Square)
Frame rate: 23.976 (IVTC Film)
Stereoscopic 3D mode: Side by Side (half)
Full resolution rendering quality: Best
Deinterlace method: None

(and I check the 'adjust source media to better match project or render settings' box)

When I upload to YouTube...
It just comes up automatically with 'Uploading to YouTube 3D' and I check the render quality: Higher box.

As I've said before though, when I try to upload directly through SV it stalls after the rendering process so I have to save and upload through my Safari browser but it's always uploaded fine for me.

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post #205 of 285 Old 07-19-2012, 10:57 AM
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I just type it in with spaces in between, into the tag area, then save. For smoothing suggestion: I have "gifted" Bloggie3d, where I cannot keep the camera smooth either, so I built a little adapter on the Smoothee, to help with the steadiness: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M8z_yJBTPFY. BTW, I don't know what causes it, but your motion video behaves like it is a frame or so L/R skewed. See the vertical chimney levels between 0:39 and 0:43. The L vs R are shifting and mis-aligning vertically. It can be caused either by your camera or post, hard to tell. You can see it actually throughout the video, if you look at anaglyph without glasses. It is easily correctable in Edius 6.5, Final Cut with Stereo3D Toolbox, Vegas, and many other editors. Nice video though.
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post #206 of 285 Old 07-19-2012, 11:20 AM
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Threed...
I watched your video no problem and it came up straight away in SBS format. The video quality of the 3D1 is excellent for a compact camera and watching it on my LED passive 3D tv really makes you feel as if you were there.
I do think there's a slight design fault with the 3D1 though which seems to pop up on everyones outside videos shot with this camera and that is the microphone ports.
To me the honeycomb holes are too large and create excessive wind noise even in the slightest breeze and are in obvious need of a diffuser of some sort?
There didn't seem to be hardly any breeze in your video judging by the flags but the wind noise was still there or was that you scratching that damned rash? lol

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post #207 of 285 Old 07-19-2012, 11:42 AM
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That's what I've been doing, but it refuses to add the 3D option when I do that. I upload the videos and select Already a 3D file and save it. After the video is uploaded and processed I look at it and the 3D option is not available. I then look at the Advanced Settings and 3D shows as no preference. I then select Already a 3D file and save it again. I then refresh the page, and wait for a while, then view the video again, but no 3D option shows up. I then set the option again. Yesterday it took me 5 tries, and if finally showed up and worked fine. However, when I viewed the same video this morning, the 3D was set, but the frames were doubled in Anaglyph and quad in no 3D. I basically looks like it processed the 3D option twice. I tried to remove it, but it would not respond. This is weird at best since others don't seem to be having this problem. Maybe it's my browser. I'm using Internet Explorer 9. I will try Firefox and see if that reacts differently....more to come...

Sorry, I'm not keeping up with you on this. rolleyes.gif

The changes to your settings do take time. Only do them once. As far as seeing what was saved with refresh, I'm not sure that will work. Its not what I do here. I make the entries to my upload add tags description and set the already 3D while it is uploading. YT will often auto save my changes and give me a bubble that says it just saved the changes. Also, YT no longer requires 3D tags. Normally after completing the upload the video "processes." Once that is complete, I have most of the settings available including 3D but sometimes those are delayed. Always the higher resolutions are delayed and the sample display still is never available until several hours or more after the video is processed. Generally, these delays are over after your video is up overnight. You may be screwing things up if you start changing settings during the Processing phase. I was told by YT experts that you set it once and forget it like Ron Popiel smile.gif
This delay also affects me as I use a considerable amount of licensed music in my videos. YT will take a day sometimes to attach copyright claims to my work often flagging the entire production, then I have to challenge with my license to use and then that claim will go away. If the claim is accurate then I leave it alone as the music licensing allows for the original copyright owner to advertise a credit. But I've had some musicians who have made claims on my work that were false and once challenged, YT will remove the restriction. For some professionals this has become a big bone of contention as it can delay the publishing process even more or violate specific non disclosures in a license contract.
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post #208 of 285 Old 07-20-2012, 06:23 AM
 
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Thanks, everyone for your input.

Comp: The L/R skewing is puzzling. I noticed a waving effect as if I'm tilting the camera left/right as I pan, yet when I pan I hold it very, very level--or so I thought. I will have to look into that more.

Outfoxed: Yes, the audio wind noise is way too loud, and there was no wind that day. I am a little worried that I might have affected the mic by shooting very loud fireworks on the 4th. It seemed that the mic became very sensitive after that.

Don: thanks for your pointers. I think I will try selecting Already in 3D only once and wait a day so see what happens. I noticed the HD posting was an hour later, and that was frustrating too. Just no roadmap to youtube other than try it and see.

I also found Vegas Platinum 11 a little frustrating between the property settings and the clip settings. Sometimes they seem to react just as you all recommend, then other times, I go through a round of weird doubled up images or single images, total confusion until I get it right. Another learning curve.

And we keep on crossing our eyes, hoping for the best.
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post #209 of 285 Old 07-20-2012, 06:50 AM
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@Threed...
I doubt very much if the fireworks damaged your mike unless a stray one went off right next to you? hope you remembered to duck? Lol
The excessive wind noise is a feature on my camera also aswell as nearly every video clip from various people on YouTube.
I'm pretty sure a fine cloth/gauze cover over the ports would eliminate this but am struggling to think of a way to implement it without ruining the cameras appearance? No doubt Don would concur and knowing him probably come up with a viable solution? Here's hoping.

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post #210 of 285 Old 07-20-2012, 10:18 AM
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Quote:
Comp: The L/R skewing is puzzling. I noticed a waving effect as if I'm tilting the camera left/right as I pan, yet when I pan I hold it very, very level--or so I thought. I will have to look into that more.

Same experience here too. Not sure why but it probably has something to do with IS not being really perfected the way Sony does in the TD10/20. I used a shot in my VOF but that was a single hand hold shot as I had to use my other hand to steady myself from falling off a cliff and the wind was gusting. It's the pan of Elephant Rock. The other shots were taken from the ground and were stills, something the 3D1 does very well.

Wind noise on the 3D1- Yes, if I wanted to I would try some open cell foam like air conditioner filter glued on top of the 3D1 over the mic hole openings. Professional recordings use a shotgun mic inside a shock mount inside a large tube that supports a thick fur piece to completely eliminate wind noise. I have one here but it is too much to carry and normally requires an audio grip or a C stand support or to manipulate on a long pole.
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