Upgrade from the 3D Bloggie: the Panasonic 3D1 - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 285 Old 03-24-2012, 10:06 PM - Thread Starter
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It is useful to have a small, pocketable 3D camera. The 3D Bloggie does pretty well for that purpose. Now Panasonic offers a better pocketable 3D camera - same dimensions, just a little thicker than the Bloggie: the Panasonic Lumix DMC-3D1.

The upgrades in 3D mode:

1. Optical stabilization

2. Optical 4X zoom

3. Auto warnings if too close for good 3D

4. True auto focus in 3D mode (the Bloggie is fixed focus in 3D mode).

5. And, most of all, better quality 3D stills (8 megapixel) and better 3D video (same 1/2 sbs format, although a higher bitrate and AVCHD). The quality difference is visible in 2D and 3d, stills and video - not subtle.

6. Better stereo audio.

7. 30mm io distance versus 20mm for the Bloggie 3D (more is not necessarily better, but I think 20mm is a bit too close for general use).

One drawback - no autostereoscopic screen (but the screen is much higher quality and bigger than that on the 3D Bloggie (3.5")).

After 9 months of shooting video in 3D outdoors in run and gun fashion, I have concluded that it is not possible to really make use of 3D displays while shooting, aside from static set-ups. I understand what is required for effective 3D, and the warnings the 3D1 gives - a bright red icon on the screen - let me know if I have missed something close on the edge of the frame, for example. I would like to review the takes in 3D on the camera after a shoot, but I have otherwise not found this to be a problem - I got no surprises when viewing in 3D what I took. Indeed, on my Z10000 I just use the 2D viewfinder - 3D LCD in bright sun is just not very useful when moving from shot to shot quickly. Useful for set-up shots, but I do not use a pocketable camera for that. Of course, having the option for a 3D screen is better than not. I am just saying it is not as big a deal as it might appear.

The 3D1 performed well in my casual quick visit to a spot where there is typically lots of activities. Here is a 3D real, not test, video I took with the camera. No time to set up shots - just shoot the action, paying attention to fundamentals when possible:

Travel to Union Square NYC in early Spring, where one sees, after a train, subway and escalator ride: a Ghandi statue, selling flowers, activities in a playground, the 'Occupy Wall Street' protesters, mounted police, confronting park rangers, and - lots of tap dancing and a juggler! All in 3D.

108060i original 3D video edited in Sony Vegas Pro 11.

http://youtu.be/ZB8X52pPYKA?hd=1
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post #2 of 285 Old 03-24-2012, 11:23 PM
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Very Nice work, Mark! I'm impressed with the image stabilization in such a small package.

What format is the 3D stills saved as?
How's the battery life?

Double the price of the Sony 3D Bloggie but 4 times the camera. Need to add this to my wish list.


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post #3 of 285 Old 03-25-2012, 06:57 AM - Thread Starter
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Stills are standard MPO's and it automatically takes a regular jpeg as well (no extraction needed). The still picture quality is really excellent. Someone discovered that if you put the 3D1 sd card in the Fuji W3, it will show the MPO's in 3D on its screen. TriDef 3D recognizes them instantly and shows them in 3D (on my LG 3D monitor) as does Stereophotomaker.

Battery life is not great - 1/2-3/4 hour of on/off, zooming and focusing - but the battery is tiny and replaceable and standard (used in Panasonic's other p&s cameras). I got an extra battery for $18. A seperate charger comes with the camera.

One other feature I forgot to mention - you can manually set convergence -2 to +2.

And yes, the real step up up, aside from quality of the stills and video, is the stabilization.



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post #4 of 285 Old 03-25-2012, 08:54 AM
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Panasonic's 3D1 was announced in the fall 2011 and went on sale not too long afterwards without much fanfare. The use of AVCHD (albiet sbs) is better than MP4 that the Bloggie uses, not to mention optical zoom lenses; sbs AVCHD 3D is used only as an option on another camcorder, JVC's TD1 (that shoots both frame-packed and sbs AVCHD 3D). I was hoping Sony would announce a competitor CyberShot at CES this past January, but looks like Panasonic is the only game in town with a 60i sbs AVCHD 3D pocket point-and-shoot camera.
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post #5 of 285 Old 03-25-2012, 01:45 PM
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Quote:


Stills are standard MPO's and it automatically takes a regular jpeg as well (no extraction needed).

Thanks for the clarification. I was a bit confused on this after reading several reviews and the Panasonic specs.
I must say, Mark, that your video with the Panasonic 3D1 looks to be better image quality than the baseball clips with the Z10000. Lower noise and grain than the Z10000. Do you agree and if so, why do you think that is? I have yet to see any examples of video on the Z10000 that look as good as the Sony TD10 or JVC TD1. Now what I see from your 3D1 looks better too. I'm not talking a big difference here, it's very subtle so Z10000 owners shouldn't get upset.

I also heard the biggest negative on the camera was the battery life. So, I suppose one needs to carry about 4 batteries for a day's shooting. I'm kind of used to that here. I have 8 batteries for my twin TD10's as well as 4 chargers. I have 3 batteries for the NEX-5n

I may have to get serious about this camera for my stealth shooting. I really was impressed with your image stabilization. My Bloggie 3D may just be obsolete too.


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post #6 of 285 Old 03-26-2012, 11:47 AM - Thread Starter
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Don, are you comparing the videos from the different camcorders (Z10000 versus 3D1) via Youtube?

You can download the unprocessed MVC Z10000 0.82GB original baseball video from the Vimeo link:

http://vimeo.com/38959870

if you go to the site of the link (and if you are a (free) member) you can right click on 'download this video' and you will get the file. Playing the unprocessed video may give you a better idea of the Z10000 quality, to compare with your TD10 originals.

Once the Z10000 or even the TD10 MVC videos are compressed to 1/2-frame sbs they may not look that different than the 3D1 videos.
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post #7 of 285 Old 03-26-2012, 01:52 PM
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Would be fun to see a comparision between the 3D1 and the Z10K - the 3D1 could be a nice addon for the Z10K maybe.

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post #8 of 285 Old 03-26-2012, 02:07 PM
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Yes, Mark on YT. What puzzles me is why the video from YOUR 3D1 looks better than YOUR video from the Z10000. At worst, I would expect the two to look the same on YT. I'd love to see the 3D1 and Z10000 shoot the same scene at the same time and see what the difference is. I plan to do a test shoot here with my TD10 as I plan to use the two to shoot scenes in the same project.

I'll take a look at the Vimeo stuff soon too. I've been wanting to test the Vimeo app on my Vizio 3D TV anyway.

BTW- based on your comments, I have a 3D1 on the way in here, hopefully tomorrow.


Compared the Z10000 with the TM900 on Vimeo and the TM900 was much more brilliant looking and loaded with increased detail. The TM900 resembles more the quality I see with my TD10 video and what I see with Joe's JVC TD1. Maybe the gamma is set wrong but that doesn't explain the grain in the image.


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post #9 of 285 Old 03-26-2012, 07:32 PM - Thread Starter
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I hope you are not disappointed by the 3D1 (I do not think you will be). I hope to do some comparison videos too.

A few tips on the 3D1:

1. Like the TD10, the 3D1 overexposes in default. I set ev to -1 in bright sunlight and -.67 in sunny bright. otherwise 0. Another poster on DPReview also found this setting to work best.

2. One advantage of the touch screen is that you can place two often used icons of your choice on the screen. I selected the ev setting, since I adjust that a lot depending on light conditions.

3. Touch screen focus is nice - in still mode (2D or 3D) you just put your finger on the subject you want in focus and exposed correctly and it will focus there instantly.
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post #10 of 285 Old 03-26-2012, 11:42 PM
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1. Use that too with the TD10. But I also like using the manual exposure for tricky shots, especially stage lighting like I had with the Kelly Pickler performance.

3. Use that often too. Most people like that feature once they get used to it.


My new amateur shooting kit is getting close to ideal now. The twin TD10's with various benches for up to 30" IA plus the NEX5n with 18-55 and 16mm lenses gives me great versatility for my outdoor 3D shooting including panorama 3D.

The 3D1 will give me that pocket 3D cam with image stabilization I've been wanting. It actually replaced the planned TD20 purchase at 1/3 the price. Now the 3D Bloggie will be fighting for a space in my kit.


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post #11 of 285 Old 03-27-2012, 02:57 PM
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Just got the 3D1 in and it is smaller than I expected which is a good thing but the image stabilizer isn't as good as the one on the TD10. Better than nothing but it is more like the one I had on my old HDR SR12. I evaluated the stills and video (3D) using HDMI connection to my Vizio and it connected and displayed the 3D perfectly with no issues with ghosting. I was pleasantly surprised that I could control the 3D1 with my Vizio remote control to advance, reverse play the stills and video.

As far as one feature missing that surprised me was that once I started recording the 3D video, I had no zoom control.

And, the battery did drain quite fast. I ordered 2 more that should be here before the end of the week.

The LCD monitor was quite bright and good enough to frame the shot with bright sun light beaming right on it. In the shade outside it was ideal. I won't need any eyecup to see this one.

I look forward to carrying this one along with my smartphone with a belt case.


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post #12 of 285 Old 03-28-2012, 04:22 AM
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How much foto's can you make before battery runs out?
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post #13 of 285 Old 03-28-2012, 05:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chang69 View Post

How much foto's can you make before battery runs out?

I guess it would depend on whether they were flash or not but I recall the specs from Panasonic was 200. I'm more interested in the 3D video. I plan to run some tests today.


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post #14 of 285 Old 03-28-2012, 07:51 AM
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Battery test:

Shooting 3D video:

File size limit is 30 minutes or about 3.77Gb. So a 16Gb SD card will record about 2 hours.

The battery will record for 2- 30 minute and about 6 minutes on a 3rd program before the battery went dead.

The camera is smart enough to first stop the near end of battery recording and save the recording before shutting down.

Best to budget a battery per hour of 3D record time.





Note- unlike the Sony TD 3D camcorders the Panasonic 3D1 does not manage the 4Gb limited files for longer record times but requires you restart the recording each half hour. You will need to edit the recordings together in post but you will lose a part of your program as you restart the camera.


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post #15 of 285 Old 03-28-2012, 06:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Landis View Post

As far as one feature missing that surprised me was that once I started recording the 3D video, I had no zoom control.

No zoom while recording? If you zoom in before starting to record, does it retain the zoom?

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post #16 of 285 Old 03-28-2012, 07:21 PM - Thread Starter
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"If you zoom in before starting to record, does it retain the zoom?"

Of course. You can see use of zoom in the video in some sequential shots of the same subject (tap dancers, mounted police).
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post #17 of 285 Old 04-08-2012, 01:58 PM - Thread Starter
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A lot of attention to video in this forum, but 3D pictures are an important source of 3D. Indeed, many of the videos I have seen are mostly 3D stills strung together - static subjects anyway.

Here are 2D and 3D versions of a still from the 3D1 taken in a dim subway, which demostrates its good low-light capability and 3D quality - the picture was taken at 1/8th shutter - but no blur - and ISO400 - but little grain and full (and accurate) color without smearing. Effective 3D too:

2D version:



sbs version:



anaglyph version

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post #18 of 285 Old 04-17-2012, 08:08 PM - Thread Starter
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Around and in NYC's Central Park: Horses and carriages, flowers, break dancing, baseball, rock climbing, bee-bop, pedicabs, fountains, Beatles imitation band, fishing for pennies, classical guitar, statuary, brass quintet, subway + Lincoln Center, Met Museum, Columbus Circle.

In 3D, of course.



Double click to get 3D viewing options, and also choose 1080p.
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post #19 of 285 Old 04-18-2012, 04:44 PM - Thread Starter
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Here is an example of a still picture, which is nice in 2d but really comes to life in 3D. If you have red/cyan glasses, you will see the big difference.



Anaglyph 3D version:



This was taken with the Panasonic 3D1, of course - one shot and a 2D and a 3D photo is created.
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post #20 of 285 Old 04-19-2012, 12:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markr041 View Post

Here is an example of a still picture, which is nice in 2d but really comes to life in 3D. If you have red/cyan glasses, you will see the big difference.

Anaglyph 3D version:

This was taken with the Panasonic 3D1, of course - one shot and a 2D and a 3D photo is created.

Mark- thanks for posting in anaglyph. I'm traveling with only my ipad3 and the anaglyph on the retina display looks quite stunning. I'm really loving the Panasonic camera for both stills and video in 3D.


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post #21 of 285 Old 04-19-2012, 07:14 AM
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Mark,
That's a awesome example of how 3D can make a picture "come to life." Thanks for sharing. I also like the IS on this 3D1.
I think I'm going to return my Sony TD20 for this little pocket P&S. This thing can do both stills and video whereas the TD20 can only do video in 3D mode.
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post #22 of 285 Old 04-19-2012, 11:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkside View Post

Mark,
That's a awesome example of how 3D can make a picture "come to life." Thanks for sharing. I also like the IS on this 3D1.
I think I'm going to return my Sony TD20 for this little pocket P&S. This thing can do both stills and video whereas the TD20 can only do video in 3D mode.

I would not trade a TD20 for a 3D1 unless all I wanted was a pocket 3D camera or the TD 20 was too expensive for my budget.. For me the 3D1 does that niche very well but it has far too many limitations for real 3D shooting semi pro or goal minded projects.. There is no real major advantage of the two different IA distances. Essentially both are in the low IA category.

In low IA range cameras, we have the 3/4" to 1.5". Then for sports and movie making we have the 65mm IA. Then for special shots of great size and distance we have the variable IA of 125mm to 1 meter IA. Really large specialty are those 3D shots that are using IA of 20 to 100 meters.


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post #23 of 285 Old 04-22-2012, 08:11 PM - Thread Starter
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Let's remember that the 3D1 takes 3D still pictures; the TD10/20 do not.

The 3D1 continues to impress me in terms of low-light performance. 1/8th shutter, ISO500, handheld.

jpeg:


anaglyph:



And no, this is not my bedroom - it is a museum exhibit (SMART Museum, U of Chicago).
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post #24 of 285 Old 04-23-2012, 07:53 AM
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Mark, I sure live the 3D1. It goes with me everywhere. On this trip I have shot, over 1200 3D stills that will work in my video projects. I left the bloggie at home!

I carry a spare SD card, and 2 spare batteries. My favorite feature is how quick it turns on with the lens cover.


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post #25 of 285 Old 04-23-2012, 06:26 PM - Thread Starter
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Yes. It sure burns through those tiny batteries in video. I need to get a third one; luckily they are cheap (I paid $18 for the second one).
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post #26 of 285 Old 04-24-2012, 12:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Landis View Post

Mark, I sure live the 3D1. It goes with me everywhere. On this trip I have shot, over 1200 3D stills that will work in my video projects. I left the bloggie at home!

I carry a spare SD card, and 2 spare batteries. My favorite feature is how quick it turns on with the lens cover.

I am getting itchy because of you. :-) Really want to buy one too!
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post #27 of 285 Old 04-24-2012, 05:32 AM - Thread Starter
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Brief visit to Chicago in the Spring: fountains, sculptures, architecture, lights, segway tour, flowers, balloon man, geese, ships, ducks, gulls, the loop.




Double-click to get 3D options, and select 1080p if you can.
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post #28 of 285 Old 04-24-2012, 09:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Landis View Post

Mark, I sure live the 3D1. It goes with me everywhere. On this trip I have shot, over 1200 3D stills that will work in my video projects. I left the bloggie at home!

I carry a spare SD card, and 2 spare batteries. My favorite feature is how quick it turns on with the lens cover.

Based upon what I have read here, I ordered this camera which is scheduled to be delivered today.

Have any of you edited these pictues and if so what software are you using?

Many thanks,

Marty
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post #29 of 285 Old 04-24-2012, 10:50 AM - Thread Starter
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Editing 3D stills: StereoPhotoMaker (free)

Editing 3D video: Sony Vegas
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post #30 of 285 Old 04-25-2012, 07:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markr041 View Post

Editing 3D stills: StereoPhotoMaker (free)

Editing 3D video: Sony Vegas

Mark:

Thanks for the advice. The camera arrived yesterday and I took a number of photos all of which showed as 3D on my Panny 3D set. Great quality.

However, no matter what I do, those same 3D photos are displayed as 2D JPEGs on my computer. I imported the pictures from the camera using the Panasonic software twice with the same result. I looked for instructions on the PDF manual that came with the camera and don't believe I am doing anything wrong.

I wonder if you could please tell me how you import your 3D photos so they are 3D on the screen.

Many thanks,

Marty
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