How to both make 3D videos for Youtube and 3D blurays from Bloggie 3D or Panasonic 3D1 3D clips using Vegas - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 8 Old 06-17-2012, 06:04 PM - Thread Starter
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There is a lot of esoteric inforrmation here about Sony Vegas for the expensive 3D camcorders, but it is now difficult to find basic info for the cheaper ones. The Sony 3D Bloggie and Panasonic 3D1 both produce 1/2-frame 1080 3D videos, and how they need to be edited is different depending on whether the end result is for Youtube or a 3D-standards blu ray. But these directions apply equally to both camera's videos (even though the Bloggie produces 30p videos and the Panasonic interlaced ones.

Youtube

First, you want to establish "project" Properties. These should be the same properties as the original files, with stereo mode set only for viewing (like anaglyph) - but there will be an issue, see below.

You then 'import media' - your clips. Once they are imported select them all, then right click and choose (clip) Properties. No stereo here, just treat them as regular 2D files.

Then add clips to the timeline and do whatever you want with them - trim, etc.

Select the whole video stream on the timeline when you are done editing, right click and select 'Switches', and the 'Disable resample'.

Now you are ready to render. Select 'render as' from the 'File' tab.

Choose a template for 108030p (progessive) mp4.

Choose a bitrate, or leave all the defaults.

Now, here's an issue - in the project tab option in the template options, you must pick for stereo 'original project properties.' If you made those stereo of any kind for viewing, you must go back and turn off stereo. The video clips you want should NOT be processed as stereo clips - they are already in the form Youtube wants, which is 1/2 frame sbs. In fact you could directly upload a Bloggie or 3D1 clip to Youtube without any editing, you just tell Youtube it is 3D and you are done.

So, you want your edited clips to stay just as they were - in 1/2 frame sbs, so no stereo processing is needed. Confusing huh? In fact, if you said you wanted 1/2-frame sbs clips, you would get 4 frames, not two.

3D Bluray

3D Bluray wants a very different format, so you have to do things completely differently than for Youtube.

Now, you select clip properties and select 1/2-fame l/r 3D (stereo). Remember for Youtube you did not choose any stereo mode.

Now Vegas knows these files are 3D.

Now, you select the 'Tools' tab (not 'render as' from the 'File' tab (confusing, huh?).

Oh, you must first have a bluray burner turned on. If you do not, you cannot "burn" a blu ray image. And, even if you have aburner turned on you cannot actually burn to a bluray disc, you can just make an image of one! So choose to do that, and Vegas will make one.

You need to choose one of the compliant options, which are 108024p or 72060p. I choose 72060p, because my videos actally have movement and benefit from higher frame rates, and because the orignal videos are not actually 1920x1080 per side, they would have to be interpolated to 1080 (actual resolution is 960x1080 per side). So burning at 1280x720 is not much of a loss in static resolution, but you gain the smoothness of 60p (it is easy to render from the 60i or 30p originals to 60p).

Then you can just use Windows built-in image burner to actually burn a bluray. It will play on your grandmothers 3D bluray player.

I am sure a new user could never figure any of this out - Vegas is great, but it is filled with gotchas.

Veterans can chip in to point out any errors. I just did all this from some 3D1 clips, so it was fresh in my mind, but reminded me how simple it all is. NOT.

And here's a 3D Youtube video made with Vegas from my 3D1, extensively using its editing features. It's Dinosaurs in 3D, that go wild. No cgi or match-motion. It's all live, and there is a big pop-out, in your face, climatic scene where the T-Rex is let loose. So you will see why I chose the viewpoint I had while shooting:



And here are two frame clips from the last part of the video (you can easily do that in Vegas too, bu I then converted the to anaglyph in another program):

aImage2.jpg

aImage1.jpg
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post #2 of 8 Old 06-17-2012, 11:27 PM
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That was very instructive. Thanks. For those of us with more expensive 3D Video cameras (i.e. the Sony TD-10) who have yet to create a 3D blu-ray, how closely can we follow those instructions as above stated and with what variations or is there a simpler method such as using the software that comes with the camera?
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post #3 of 8 Old 06-18-2012, 07:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markr041 

Mark:

Thanks for the helpful advice. Did you learn this process through trial and error or did you have an educational source?

Marty
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post #4 of 8 Old 06-18-2012, 09:36 AM - Thread Starter
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Don Landis, a major poster here, and some others answered a lot of my questions in this forum when I started out. After that it was reading all the threads here and mucking about with the software. The most confusing part about Vegas for a beginner was the distinction between 'Project properties' and 'clip properties.' And then, 'Render as' uses 'Project properties' importantly and 'Burn to disc' uses 'Clip properties'!

While I am on the topic of Vegas: it is great, but it is terribly error -trapped or filled with seeming arbitray restrictions that are undocumented. So if you do something out of bounds or have a file it cannot deal with, the software will either simply not do anything (example: if you do not have a bluray writer turned on it will not write an iso fileto disc (nutty restriction), but it does not tell you this) or it will crash - no error or other message.

If you figure things out, Vegas is easy to use and very capable, especially for 3D.
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post #5 of 8 Old 06-18-2012, 09:45 AM - Thread Starter
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"That was very instructive. Thanks. For those of us with more expensive 3D Video cameras (i.e. the Sony TD-10) who have yet to create a 3D blu-ray, how closely can we follow those instructions as above stated and with what variations or is there a simpler method such as using the software that comes with the camera?"

For burning a bluray or Youtube using TD-10 files, you just in clip properties in the stereo part indicate the clips are something like 'pair with next image'. Project properties dont matter for bluray.

Then it's just a matter of picking 'Burn a disc' for bluray. Choose 108024p or 72060p.

For Youtube: you want in 'render as' stereo mode under the project tab to be 1/2-frame sbs. Then pick a template, like 108030p mp4.
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post #6 of 8 Old 07-18-2012, 01:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markr041 View Post

"That was very instructive. Thanks. For those of us with more expensive 3D Video cameras (i.e. the Sony TD-10) who have yet to create a 3D blu-ray, how closely can we follow those instructions as above stated and with what variations or is there a simpler method such as using the software that comes with the camera?"
For burning a bluray or Youtube using TD-10 files, you just in clip properties in the stereo part indicate the clips are something like 'pair with next image'. Project properties dont matter for bluray.
Then it's just a matter of picking 'Burn a disc' for bluray. Choose 108024p or 72060p.
For Youtube: you want in 'render as' stereo mode under the project tab to be 1/2-frame sbs. Then pick a template, like 108030p mp4.

When I read your first post, I was under the impression to not select 3D, but leave off, which works for video, but not stills. I finally chose 1/2 sbs in project properties and that made the stills pop up as left/right images as well, so I knew that must be the problem. In the clip properties, I had to turn off 3D or select as pair with next image to get it to work right. Thanks.

Update, turning off 3D for stills did not work for Anaglyph as I thought. It has to be: Pair with next stream, which is done automatically at the clip level when you select 1/2 sbs in the main properties and drag the stills to the timeline. I tried both ways, and turning off 3D on the clip properties jus produces a single image in Anaglyph. Works okay for SBS 3D, though.
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post #7 of 8 Old 07-20-2012, 11:49 AM
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Mark,

have you tried to render the sbs-half footage still from a 3D project, but setting the render properties to side-by-side half, using the "customize template" buttom in the render settings, and the setting to sbs-half in the project settings of the render template? To my opinion, there is no need to set the project back to 2D for rendering.

Maybe it makes no big difference in the result since you start here with sbs-half footage. But he from the technical side of Vegas I would prefere to use a clear 3D workflow that allows me to edit the 3D footage witt the 3D-plugin of Vegas, and have a 3D preview while doing that - and with a 2D project I would not have no 3D preview but with 3D project settings I have.

So I would edit the project in 3D, adjust the convergence also for sbs-half units in the same way as we do it for MVC-files, use here the 3D preview, and render the project from 3D project settings.

There may be the need to adjust the media properties to sbs half too, but after doing so we have a 3D preview also from sbs-half footage.

Kind regards,
Wolfgang
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post #8 of 8 Old 07-21-2012, 10:02 AM
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Mark- I'm not sure I agree with your summation on why clip properties are necessary-

I was taught that the clip properties are important for the proper timeline placement of the media so all renders will treat it as 3D based on the render as choice.

For example, say I begin editing with TD10 clips that are always "Paired with next stream" ( the default ) in the media properties for the clip. Then I add a clip from my Panasonic 3D1 which is natively SBS media. ( the mpo files uses the default of pair with next stream ) Now, the timeline shows it to be a SBS frame and it will render improperly, even with File Properties set for SBS Half 3D. Here, as I recall the Pany 3D1 clip may render to 4 SBS images! Because the SBS is applied twice. When you add the media from native SBS, you must set that media attribute to SBS and not, Paired with Next stream so it will be correctly handled in the time line. Once the timeline is correctly interpreting every event of every clip then the rendering process will proceed based on your File Properties 3D setting IF YOU HAVE NOT OVERRIDDEN the setting in the "render as" custom settings where the default is "Use the Project Properties setting.

I think where newbies to Vegas get confused here, is that the process is very complex with lots of settings that can over ride previous setting. Here is why I think your thinking that rendering to Disk is different for media type. It isn't, but the render to disk relies on templates that can be set to override the default. Templates themselves are stock and custom. All the stock templates rely on the default and the custom relies on what you created.

Note: Normally the media properties, once set will carry with the media for each instance of Vegas after first set, but there is a bug I reported for Vegas v11 and v10 that does not stick for paired or SBS clips. This bug has been reported by me to Wolfgang and one of the SCS engineers with a physical demonstration. It still has not been fixed. as of b595. Soon I will test in the next day or so with b683.
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